28 réponses à ce sujet

[ShimmeringDjinn]

Is it just me or does this make zero sense.

An elf and/or mage cannot become King/Queen for the
following reasons.

1) The mage. *Magic is there to serve man, never to rule
over him* therefore they can’t hold a title.

2) The elf. Because…….well their elves, and are not allowed
to *be* nobles.

Yet the elf and/or mage Warden can ask for a title and
riches as a boon, which in turn would elevate them to 'noble status'
It is contradictory.
Seriously Bioware, the holes in your games are going to
cause my brain to melt down.

[GSSAGE7]

It makes more sense when you realize that it's not just any elf/mage, but the elf/mage that stopped a civil war, raised an army, and almost single-handedly fought back a Blight. Not to mention that your nobility is given to you by no less than the King/Queen of the nation. While the nobility can complain amongst themselves, they can do no more than they could about a commoner like Loghain becoming Teryn.

[ShimmeringDjinn]

GSSAGE7 wrote...

It makes more sense when you realize that it's not just any elf/mage, but the elf/mage that stopped a civil war, raised an army, and almost single-handedly fought back a Blight. Not to mention that your nobility is given to you by no less than the King/Queen of the nation. While the nobility can complain amongst themselves, they can do no more than they could about a commoner like Loghain becoming Teryn.

Hey thank you for your response.
That is true and I agree.
However, upon deciding who will rule, the elf and/or mage is pushed out and told *you can't rule because your not good enough* and then afterwards their told *you can have a title and become a noble*
To me, that is completely contradictoy. Everyone at the Landsmeet is perfectly willing to send the PC off to their potential death and stand beside them at the said Landsmeet, but will not allow the defender of their Lands to be a King/Queen.

[GSSAGE7]

ShimmeringDjinn wrote...

However, upon deciding who will rule, the elf and/or mage is pushed out and told *you can't rule because your not good enough* and then afterwards their told *you can have a title and become a noble*
To me, that is completely contradictoy. Everyone at the Landsmeet is perfectly willing to send the PC off to their potential death and stand beside them at the said Landsmeet, but will not allow the defender of their Lands to be a King/Queen.

Look at it another way. It's one thing to make an elf/mage their equal, as, again, they are the equal of a national hero, at least that's what they can tell themselves.
But allowing a "mere elf" to rise above them, and rule a nation? That's a bit too extreme, I imagine.

[ShimmeringDjinn]

GSSAGE7 wrote...

ShimmeringDjinn wrote...

However, upon deciding who will rule, the elf and/or mage is pushed out and told *you can't rule because your not good enough* and then afterwards their told *you can have a title and become a noble*
To me, that is completely contradictoy. Everyone at the Landsmeet is perfectly willing to send the PC off to their potential death and stand beside them at the said Landsmeet, but will not allow the defender of their Lands to be a King/Queen.

Look at it another way. It's one thing to make an elf/mage their equal, as, again, they are the equal of a national hero, at least that's what they can tell themselves.
But allowing a "mere elf" to rise above them, and rule a nation? That's a bit too extreme, I imagine.

I guess your right. Still, it just *sits* wrong with me. The stuck up nobles are basically saying *We'll allow you to die for us, but we will never allow your kind to rule and guide us, even though you are clearly better than us*
Damned humans, they will be the authors of their own destruction

[theskymoves]

GSSAGE7 wrote...

ShimmeringDjinn wrote...

However, upon deciding who will rule, the elf and/or mage is pushed out and told *you can't rule because your not good enough* and then afterwards their told *you can have a title and become a noble*
To me, that is completely contradictoy. Everyone at the Landsmeet is perfectly willing to send the PC off to their potential death and stand beside them at the said Landsmeet, but will not allow the defender of their Lands to be a King/Queen.

Look at it another way. It's one thing to make an elf/mage their equal, as, again, they are the equal of a national hero, at least that's what they can tell themselves.
But allowing a "mere elf" to rise above them, and rule a nation? That's a bit too extreme, I imagine.

But as the Consort of either King Alistair or Queen Anora, the PC has no real power, except that which pillow talk may confer. As there is no obstacle to the PC asking to be made Chancellor, no matter their origin, the prohibition against a non-human or mage King/Queen makes no sense to me except as an expression of racism and bigotry.

~tsm

[ShimmeringDjinn]

theskymoves wrote...

GSSAGE7 wrote...

ShimmeringDjinn wrote...

However, upon deciding who will rule, the elf and/or mage is pushed out and told *you can't rule because your not good enough* and then afterwards their told *you can have a title and become a noble*
To me, that is completely contradictoy. Everyone at the Landsmeet is perfectly willing to send the PC off to their potential death and stand beside them at the said Landsmeet, but will not allow the defender of their Lands to be a King/Queen.

Look at it another way. It's one thing to make an elf/mage their equal, as, again, they are the equal of a national hero, at least that's what they can tell themselves.
But allowing a "mere elf" to rise above them, and rule a nation? That's a bit too extreme, I imagine.

But as the Consort of either King Alistair or Queen Anora, the PC has no real power, except that which pillow talk may confer. As there is no obstacle to the PC asking to be made Chancellor, no matter their origin, the prohibition against a non-human or mage King/Queen makes no sense to me except as an expression of racism and bigotry.

~tsm

You are completely correct tsm (on both bolded parts) especially the top part.
On my latest playthrough -which I finished yesterday- my Surana crowned Anora and became Chancellor. Non of the nobles seemed to care that an elven mage was advising the Queen.
They would only have a problem if she tried to declare herself Queen with Alistair as King. So yes, that =racism and/or bigotry.

Modifié par ShimmeringDjinn, 05 décembre 2011 - 07:35 .

[Tremere]

theskymoves wrote...

GSSAGE7 wrote...

ShimmeringDjinn wrote...

However, upon deciding who will rule, the elf and/or mage is pushed out and told *you can't rule because your not good enough* and then afterwards their told *you can have a title and become a noble*
To me, that is completely contradictoy. Everyone at the Landsmeet is perfectly willing to send the PC off to their potential death and stand beside them at the said Landsmeet, but will not allow the defender of their Lands to be a King/Queen.

Look at it another way. It's one thing to make an elf/mage their equal, as, again, they are the equal of a national hero, at least that's what they can tell themselves.
But allowing a "mere elf" to rise above them, and rule a nation? That's a bit too extreme, I imagine.

But as the Consort of either King Alistair or Queen Anora, the PC has no real power, except that which pillow talk may confer. As there is no obstacle to the PC asking to be made Chancellor, no matter their origin, the prohibition against a non-human or mage King/Queen makes no sense to me except as an expression of racism and bigotry.

~tsm

I am (playing as) Cyrus Cousland and I endorse this message! Likewise, I agree that there are a lot of holes in Dragon Age. Little things like, "How did my dog escape the Tower of Ishal and find me in the Korcari Wilds?" and "How is it that none of my companions get infected with the taint?" To very large ones like those mentioned above. I've seen on many forums where folks have rationalized these and many other holes away (to some degree), but that doesn't negate the fact that the holes are still there. Suspension of disbelief can only carry one so far. I personally think that the Chantry's influence is too far reaching (softly spoken) and needs to be checked. I think the Grey Warden's modus operandi needs an enema and the blatant bigotry and self-righteousness of the people of Thedas needs to be remedied. In this regard, the Qun almost makes sense... Almost.


Yet, in spite of all the above, the game remains entertaining and a great way to separate from reality for a while. Go figure.
*Hah!*

Modifié par GabrielXL, 06 décembre 2011 - 02:24 .

[ShimmeringDjinn]

The companions not catching the blight sickness is mystery. As for dog, maybe Flemeth plucked him from the tower too?

Edit now that I'm home.
Speaking of Dog; How is it a little flower cure him of blight sickness, but not people?
And I agree GabrielXL, it is a great game in spite of the little holes. In fact, I think the holes make a little bit more entertaining because they give the player something to ponder on

Modifié par ShimmeringDjinn, 06 décembre 2011 - 05:35 .

[Tremere]

ShimmeringDjinn wrote...

The companions not catching the blight sickness is mystery. As for dog, maybe Flemeth plucked him from the tower too?

Edit now that I'm home.
Speaking of Dog; How is it a little flower cure him of blight sickness, but not people?
And I agree GabrielXL, it is a great game in spite of the little holes. In fact, I think the holes make a little bit more entertaining because they give the player something to ponder on

*Laughs* I hadn't thought about the *Wild Flower Cure*, but you're right. With all the mages around, surely someone skilled in Alchemy could come up with a Blight Sickness Cure. Especially considering the fact that the mages help with the darkspawn blood concoction that's used during the joining. As for Flemeth pluckng my dog... I suppose it's plausible. 

[Get Magna Carter]

mages cannot be king/queen because they may turn into an abomination so no-one trusts mages

elves cannot be king/queen because humans are racist

[tklivory]

Get Magna Carter wrote...

mages cannot be king/queen because they may turn into an abomination so no-one trusts mages

elves cannot be king/queen because humans are racist

Bioware does seem to like that theme...

Clicky for lulz

[Zaxares]

Feh, I'd rather not be the one sitting on the throne. You're too famous and open as a target. I'd rather become the First Enchanter/Chancellor as my Mage with Alistair+Anora on the throne, and then secretly pull the strings from the shadows.

And if they object? Well, that's what my Blood Magic is for... *evil grin*

[Cobwebmaster]

tklivory wrote...

Get Magna Carter wrote...

mages cannot be king/queen because they may turn into an abomination so no-one trusts mages

elves cannot be king/queen because humans are racist

Bioware does seem to like that theme...

Clicky for lulz

It seems that has changed since the days of Baldur's Gate when Elves, Dwarves, and Humans, and Gnomes were pretty much on a level playing field, with Kobbolds, Orcs, Giants, et al occupying their own regions in Faerun/Torril. Mages in some cases actually ruled city states like Watersmeet and an elven warrior/ mage was the founder of Neverwinter. The Gods had their proper place and followers were not rabid crusaders and moralistic bigots Now as far as I can see the best bet for the elves is to try and find somewhere to live on their own as they are definitely second class citizens at best as far as humans are concerned, and at worst slaves. Either that or wild and unmanageable vagrants who as they have no property are not worth persecuting and putting in their proper place

This time round we are in RPG terms pitched into a primitive medieval or dark age culture rife with sectarian divisions, and racial prejudice. The only impartial culture seems to be the Wardens and only then because of greatest need. Most of the prejudice emanates from the humans and they seem to be quite content as the dominant race in Ferelden (courtesy of the Dwarves not being interested in the surface) for it to remain that way. The gut feeling I had as RPGing a Warden was to depart for Weishaupt via Orlais after Ostagar, leaving Ferelden to self destruct under Loghain and Howe. The Dalish Elves would simply move out and the dwarves would fort up for the time being until the greater part of the Warden's forces could be brought to bear against the Archdemon and resolve the issue. Maybe then Ferelden could be re populated with decent people

[ShimmeringDjinn]

Get Magna Carter wrote...

mages cannot be king/queen because they may turn into an abomination so no-one trusts mages

elves cannot be king/queen because humans are racist

It is a sad, but entirely true fact As for the 'abomination' thing; One would also think that, that would also apply to the Mage Warden demanding a title. After all, they are in fact going to be 'ruling' over people, just not in the same capacity as a King or Queen.
It really strikes me as...odd, that they would put such things (allowing the play to demand a title) in the game after it's been made clear Elves and/or Mages are basically scum and worth less than dirt in the eyes of humans

Modifié par ShimmeringDjinn, 13 décembre 2011 - 08:46 .

[ShimmeringDjinn]

Zaxares wrote...

Feh, I'd rather not be the one sitting on the throne. You're too famous and open as a target. I'd rather become the First Enchanter/Chancellor as my Mage with Alistair+Anora on the throne, and then secretly pull the strings from the shadows.

And if they object? Well, that's what my Blood Magic is for... *evil grin*

My Warden would also rather not be sat on a throne.....Talk about boring lol.

[Bayz]

Zaxares wrote...

Feh, I'd rather not be the one sitting on the throne. You're too famous and open as a target. I'd rather become the First Enchanter/Chancellor as my Mage with Alistair+Anora on the throne, and then secretly pull the strings from the shadows.

And if they object? Well, that's what my Blood Magic is for... *evil grin*

^This is exactly what my main Warden did or I'd like to think she did, just only Alistair and becoming his secret mistress while slowly taking over the country getting more and more titles and controlling her cousing from overseas to make chaos reign so Orlais will stop try to get involved.

Eventually the Amell-Hawke family will become like the real life Julii or so I hope if Bioware allows me to keep continuity...

Keeping in mind how my warden and hawke dissapeared apparently I am afraid it will not but hey...daydreaming is ok, right?

[MKDAWUSS]

And don't forget about the whole thing about Wardens not being able to hold any titles or anything like that...

[RagingCyclone]

I'm on my phone so I can't tell if it was addressed about Dog and the flower cure. I chalked that up to different anatomies. Just as some things are good for peeps but poisonous to a dog and vice versa in RL I figured the same held for the cure...especially for a breed with magical influences in its lineage.

[ShimmeringDjinn]

RagingCyclone wrote...

I'm on my phone so I can't tell if it was addressed about Dog and the flower cure. I chalked that up to different anatomies. Just as some things are good for peeps but poisonous to a dog and vice versa in RL I figured the same held for the cure...especially for a breed with magical influences in its lineage.

I never thought about it that way, but that is a good point.

[ShimmeringDjinn]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

And don't forget about the whole thing about Wardens not being able to hold any titles or anything like that...

True. But yet Alistair can still be King, plus the Wardens at Weisshaupt apparently 'rule' the whole of the Anderfels. Seems to me that the Wardens are hypocrites and only abide by their own rules when it suits them

[MKDAWUSS]

ShimmeringDjinn wrote...

RagingCyclone wrote...

I'm on my phone so I can't tell if it was addressed about Dog and the flower cure. I chalked that up to different anatomies. Just as some things are good for peeps but poisonous to a dog and vice versa in RL I figured the same held for the cure...especially for a breed with magical influences in its lineage.

I never thought about it that way, but that is a good point.

I was under the impression that it basically turned doggies into some sort of pseudo-Warden.

[Bayz]

Not pseudo, real wardens as how they do not do blood magic or refine Darkspawn blood or anything like that. They take it like a man and live with it.

Mabari are the real Grey Wardens.

They don't take the oath because they ain't wasting time on that **** when they could be killing darkspawn and making Thedas a better place to live.

Modifié par Bayz, 17 décembre 2011 - 03:04 .

[applehug]

I think it's more to do with reputation than anything else. I imagine other nations would care more about the King/Queen of Ferelden than some random noble.

[Thiefy]

ShimmeringDjinn wrote...



Is it just me or does this make zero sense.

An elf and/or mage cannot become King/Queen for the
following reasons.

1) The mage. *Magic is there to serve man, never to rule
over him* therefore they can’t hold a title.

2) The elf. Because…….well their elves, and are not allowed
to *be* nobles.

Yet the elf and/or mage Warden can ask for a title and
riches as a boon, which in turn would elevate them to 'noble status'
It is contradictory.
Seriously Bioware, the holes in your games are going to
cause my brain to melt down.

it's called politics. The warden may be given a title (like hero, or champion), but that may not necessarily make them a noble (which in this case, is more like a position that holds power; think of a job promotion).