First off, I understand that some people hate 4th Edition, and I respect that; if you do, just ignore this thread.
Second, I know 3.5 is hard-coded into the Aurora Engine, BUT the very basic mechanics (roll 1d20, add a modifier, compare to a DC) is the same, and clever use of what we have should allow 4e (or some reasonable facsimile thereof). Clearly, there will be hurdles.
I also am aware of Neverwinter, which will come out in a year, be an MMO RPG based on an action engine (not actually a 4e engine) BUT using 4e powers and lore. I also understand that the company making it was bought out and the game will be Freemium. I feel that this will not bode well for modders/module writers, whose modules will likely be ignored in spite of being connected to the server (see Neverwinter the facebook game).
The idea here is to make NWN2 a 4e game to breathe life back into it and provide a 4e NWN that isn't an MMORPG.
What I'm looking to do is get a group together of modders to make the rules changes and even a module team to make a large, multi-author campaign set in Nentir Vale (since Neverwinter itself will be handled elsewhere, mainly in the eponymous action MMORPG mentioned above). To save time/effort, start simple, and therefore do essentials classes (to ease up on the number of powers we would need to script and playtest).
Is anyone out there interested in this?
Project I Want to Start: Nentir Vale Nights (NWN2 -> 4e)
Débuté par
Darin
, déc. 05 2011 07:58
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#2
Posté 05 décembre 2011 - 10:15
The Fred
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That sounds like a big undertaking. I'd say the best thing to do first off would be to identify the biggest hurdles in implementing 4th Ed or something based off it, and work out how you should be able to get around them (i.e. do it in theory first). It's going to suck if you code up a whole load of powers and then realise that some small detail or other doesn't work. I don't know much about 4th Ed; I don't hate it like some but it just seems completely different to me and I haven't bothered to try and learn it.
The other question you have to ask yourself is how is all this going to be used? Are people then going to be able to make modules in 4th Ed only, or are you going to try and make it override-based so that a player can play existing modules using these rules? If it's the former, that's cool enough but people won't actually be able to see the thing in-game even when it's finished (aside from if you make a demo, etc). Ideally I imagine you'd want the latter but that's going to be far harder to implement, if it's at all possible (maybe an OC remake or whatever could be achievable, though).
The other question you have to ask yourself is how is all this going to be used? Are people then going to be able to make modules in 4th Ed only, or are you going to try and make it override-based so that a player can play existing modules using these rules? If it's the former, that's cool enough but people won't actually be able to see the thing in-game even when it's finished (aside from if you make a demo, etc). Ideally I imagine you'd want the latter but that's going to be far harder to implement, if it's at all possible (maybe an OC remake or whatever could be achievable, though).
#3
Posté 05 décembre 2011 - 11:21
kamal_
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I don't think you realize what work implementing 4e rules would involve, and I don't think you're secretly Kaedrin or Drammel and that the talk of an engine NWN2 doesn't use is just to throw us off.
If you're seriously interested in seeing this happen, I encourage you to take up scripting.
If you're seriously interested in seeing this happen, I encourage you to take up scripting.
#4
Posté 06 décembre 2011 - 02:56
Darin
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Considering the way NWN2 handles creature powers, and the likelihood of having to change the skills around, it would have to be 4th only (even though it would mostly be override, creatures will likely need things in their script files in order to remember to use powers).
There are plenty of hurdles, since there are some big differences...
(1) We would need to find a way to disable extra attacks after BAB +6 OR find a way to increase attack that is NOT BAB, since 4e does not do extra attacks off of BAB. Giving everyone half BAB would match 4e, until level 12 when all of a sudden you start making extra attacks out of nowhere.
(2) keep you in the one class (unless we use classes to do the Path and Destiny thing, at which point they have a level 11 or 21 requirement).
(3) 4th does ability boosts differently; shutting off the ability boost at 4,8,12,16,20,24,28 would be needed to allow a feat-based 4e boost (2 feats for +1 at 4,8,14,18,24,28, and a feat that gives +1 to all at 11,21).
(4) Modes seem to be hard-coded...we would need o be able to make our own or simulate them to do Stances correctly.
(5) Marking (if I attack you, until the end of my next turn you get a -2 to attack anyone else...) and what PCs can do with it (...and if you do, I get an Opportunity Attack).
(6) Ongoing damage or effects (which NWN2 has) that a save ends (may have that as well, not up on every spell in the game), where the save is not a 3.5 save but just a d20 roll, DC 10 (which can be modified, so may have to do a save where the regular save value is subtracted out then the save is made, so any situational bonuses apply).
(7) Defenses other than Armor class, though it may just be that attacks to those defense force a a save (since these replaced saves to be easier), at 12+attack Adjustment (ex. if in 4e I roll +7 vs your Reflex of 15, instead you would have a Ref Save of +5 and make a save vs. DC 19...in this way, I have only 7 numbers to miss on...1-7 in 4e, now 14,15,16,17,18,19,20). Of course, we'd have to do a crit on a 1.
(8) Crits work differently as well, and instead do max damage and (if you have the equipment) + some other damage (a =1 sword crits with an extra d6).
(9) weapons get a + bonus to attack if you know how to use them...the damage and crit range changes should be able to be done in the 2DA files, but not sure how engine changes to criticals and attack bonuses should be handled.
(10) Two types of Resting...one recharges encounter powers, the other recharges everything (many modules have ridiculous resting rules, I would make those for Extended Rests but just have the Players take a knee for 5s for the breather you can take between encounters...issue would be having a rest that only recharges some powers though.
Those are an example of the issues, and I barley got into powers yet, though the Warlock is an interesting class that has similar abilities.
I know this is not a project for one person, hence the appeal to the community for interested parties. Fred is right, theoretical discussion should come first, with actual scripting coming later. This post was intended to find the people for that discussion.
There are plenty of hurdles, since there are some big differences...
(1) We would need to find a way to disable extra attacks after BAB +6 OR find a way to increase attack that is NOT BAB, since 4e does not do extra attacks off of BAB. Giving everyone half BAB would match 4e, until level 12 when all of a sudden you start making extra attacks out of nowhere.
(2) keep you in the one class (unless we use classes to do the Path and Destiny thing, at which point they have a level 11 or 21 requirement).
(3) 4th does ability boosts differently; shutting off the ability boost at 4,8,12,16,20,24,28 would be needed to allow a feat-based 4e boost (2 feats for +1 at 4,8,14,18,24,28, and a feat that gives +1 to all at 11,21).
(4) Modes seem to be hard-coded...we would need o be able to make our own or simulate them to do Stances correctly.
(5) Marking (if I attack you, until the end of my next turn you get a -2 to attack anyone else...) and what PCs can do with it (...and if you do, I get an Opportunity Attack).
(6) Ongoing damage or effects (which NWN2 has) that a save ends (may have that as well, not up on every spell in the game), where the save is not a 3.5 save but just a d20 roll, DC 10 (which can be modified, so may have to do a save where the regular save value is subtracted out then the save is made, so any situational bonuses apply).
(7) Defenses other than Armor class, though it may just be that attacks to those defense force a a save (since these replaced saves to be easier), at 12+attack Adjustment (ex. if in 4e I roll +7 vs your Reflex of 15, instead you would have a Ref Save of +5 and make a save vs. DC 19...in this way, I have only 7 numbers to miss on...1-7 in 4e, now 14,15,16,17,18,19,20). Of course, we'd have to do a crit on a 1.
(8) Crits work differently as well, and instead do max damage and (if you have the equipment) + some other damage (a =1 sword crits with an extra d6).
(9) weapons get a + bonus to attack if you know how to use them...the damage and crit range changes should be able to be done in the 2DA files, but not sure how engine changes to criticals and attack bonuses should be handled.
(10) Two types of Resting...one recharges encounter powers, the other recharges everything (many modules have ridiculous resting rules, I would make those for Extended Rests but just have the Players take a knee for 5s for the breather you can take between encounters...issue would be having a rest that only recharges some powers though.
Those are an example of the issues, and I barley got into powers yet, though the Warlock is an interesting class that has similar abilities.
I know this is not a project for one person, hence the appeal to the community for interested parties. Fred is right, theoretical discussion should come first, with actual scripting coming later. This post was intended to find the people for that discussion.
#5
Posté 06 décembre 2011 - 04:48
MokahTGS
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Rules for the game can be rewritten, and many things can be completely overhauled. The amount of work involved is...well...I'll be frank...a lot.
If you are a scripter, more power to you. Looking to gather a team? Well, at this point, I don't see this happening. Bang for buck, I don't see many people jumping on this.
Like all projects of giant scope, you're going to have to be the front runner, unless you hve a secret group of friends that play NWN2.
If you are a scripter, more power to you. Looking to gather a team? Well, at this point, I don't see this happening. Bang for buck, I don't see many people jumping on this.
Like all projects of giant scope, you're going to have to be the front runner, unless you hve a secret group of friends that play NWN2.
