Oh yeah, it is kind of hard for me to write about them since there is almost no acknowledgement (if any) of the Elven Pantheon. This disappointed me because I was vastly interested in the Dalish Elves until I played through the Dalish Origin and realized that there was almost no mention or lore of the Elven Gods...
However, I found a list of the Elven Pantheon and all of the Elven Gods.
June - God of Crafts
Sylaise - Goddess of the Hearth
Andruil - Goddess of the Hunt
Falon'Din - God of Death and Fortune/ Twin of Dirthamen
Fen'Harel - Dread Wolf/ Trickster God/The Elven god responsible for sealing away the other Gods in the Realms of the Abyss and Heaven
Elgar'nan - Twin of Mythal/ God of Vengeance and Fatherhood
Mythal - Twin of Elgar'nan/ Goddess of Justice and Motherhood
Dirthamen - God of Secrets/ Twin of Falon'Din
Ghilan'nain - Goddes of the Halla
The Elven Pantheon is led by the Twins, Mythal and Elgar'nan.
However there is another set of Gods that are known as "The Forgotten Ones" They are the Elven gods of Terror, Malice, Spite, and Pestilence; they are the sworn enemies of the Elven Pantheon. Only Fen'Harel can walk freely between the realms of the Abyss and Heaven.
This info comes from Dragon Age Wiki, which is an awesome source of info.
Old Gods
Débuté par
jeckaldied
, nov. 23 2009 02:31
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#27
Posté 23 novembre 2009 - 09:06
marshalleck
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Actually, that info comes from the in-game codex which has plenty of info about the elven pantheon. You just have to read it.
Modifié par marshalleck, 23 novembre 2009 - 09:07 .
#28
Posté 23 novembre 2009 - 09:28
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Is there anymore info other than that? And where do you find it?
#29
Posté 23 novembre 2009 - 09:31
JamesX
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Accoring to one of the codex or NPCs (don't remember which), Old Gods are not simply high dragons.
High Dragons are not sentient. They are just smart beasts. The Old Gods however are fully sentient.
High Dragons are not sentient. They are just smart beasts. The Old Gods however are fully sentient.
#30
Posté 23 novembre 2009 - 09:38
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See it's the existance of the Old eleven lore that seriously make me doubt that the maker is even real......I think it's just something someone decided to cook up as a way to control the mages powers and used that story as propaganda, but then Andrate ashes truly cured Arl Eamon, unless Andraste herself was a vessal to an old god spirit and didn't know it herself (could explain the voices she heard, the spirit could try and manifest itself) , much like Morrigan's child will become.
#31
Posté 24 novembre 2009 - 01:51
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I wonder what Morrigan is going to do with that Old God child of hers... (If you did the ritual)
#32
Posté 24 novembre 2009 - 02:12
Rainstorm01
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Wether or not the Maker exist within the game, its a fact that the Black City does exist. Was it always like that or was it really corrupted bu those magister lords like the legends tell? Who made that city if not? you know Blacklotus30, the Chantry certainly must love the idea that the mages corrupted their God's city ---CONSPIRATIONS I SAY--- dont you think? Muahahaha 
Modifié par Rainstorm01, 24 novembre 2009 - 02:14 .
#33
Posté 24 novembre 2009 - 11:06
code2501
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Much speculation and spoilering!
Wall of text, but here goes:
My take is that all gods are akin to spirit/demon entities from the fade.
The entities take shape from the collective mortal subconcious.
The elves were origionaly purely timeless imortals as a hybrid physical/fade entites.
Something about the mind of humans when they became sentient caused the veil to form, seperating the fade from the physical realm like the surface of a pond.
This caused the elves to loose imortality and "quicken" into the physical world. This is described as the metaphor of the elvish pantheon being tricked into their prisons by Fen'Harel, which describes the first primal fade entity the newly sentient human subconcious had created.
This is why the elves are far more geneticaly adaptable, and elf/human ofspring loose their elvenness.
Demons and spirits are echos from before the veil, ripples of the interaction of the physical and the fade. Since the veil they became traped in the fade, only able to channel themselves through physical sentients.
The elves actually lived for many centuries along side the humans before the fall of Arlathan (this is hinted at in the dalish origin story). They were not true imortals in this time, but due to their residual conectedness to the fade, even with the veil formed over it, they were able to extend their lives to be near imortal. An example of this is what the Dalish elf leader did when he summoned the entity in the forest to curse the humans.
Over time the elves affinity with the fade weakened but they were still superior in their connection with it over humans.
Humans learnt to control their fade reflections more under direction from their elvish overlords. Eventually a group of rebels (the imperium) attacked Arlathan and sacked the city.
The golden city was the fade mirror, or the spirit of Arlathan, created by the collective conciousness of the elves of the city. When the physical city was sacked the golden city was also attacked and withered. The residual anger in the elvish psyche post this apocolypse gave birth to the black city.
Pure elves still have a residual connection to the fade, though weakened by the veil. Indeed some spirits of ancient pure elves are trapped on the physical realm (brecyllian forest ruins, trainer of Arcane Warrior spec) and these entities retain a strong psyche hold over various fade entities like the black city.
The Old Gods are fade vessels that the Imperium created to assault the golden city, they are weapons that they used to strike out at the elves from the fade, whilst the magisters attacked Arlathan in the physical realm. It was a co-ordinated strike from two fronts.
Darkspawn are the toxic fallout that resulted from this war.
Of course, the maker itself is just a metaphor used by the powerfull mage Andraste many centuries later in order to harness the collective power of a new class of dissidents among the new human lower class. She harnessed this into a powerfull fade entity and used it to repeat history to overthrow the new overlords of the human mage ruled imperium. Posibly some of Andrastes power came from her collusion with elves that still remembered the sacking of Arlathan and had old knowledge of how to wield the fade.
On her death the imperium recognised that the idea Andraste had sown in the populous would give birth to new powerful fade entities. This is why they tried to "switch" to andraste/maker cult worship, to harness this power. But the entity was too damaged and shattered after it imprisoned the old god entities, and hense the schisim of the chantry, and the mere splinter that the imperium wield, vs other splinters such as the power around the ashes etc which are powered by the sentients psyche.
High dragons may be smart enough to know that being worshiped will allow them to gain power via the fade, hence the example of the cult of andraste in haven. Perhaps when one of these cults harnesses enough power for a high dragon, or the high dragon becomes too ambitious, it stumbles on an imprisioned old god in the fade and looses. The result being a High dragon abomination, possesed by an old god entity.
Even if its body is slain, because the old god has channeled itself through a high dragon's soul/mind, it stays in the physical realm, posessing another darkspawn and morphing it into a physical reflection of the origional conduit between the old god and the physical realm.
This is how I would speculate it works. What scares me is even if morrigan manages to distill the old god essence removing some of the weaponisation of the entity, this new child will have the soul equivalent of a refined and distilled sentient nuke!
Wall of text, but here goes:
My take is that all gods are akin to spirit/demon entities from the fade.
The entities take shape from the collective mortal subconcious.
The elves were origionaly purely timeless imortals as a hybrid physical/fade entites.
Something about the mind of humans when they became sentient caused the veil to form, seperating the fade from the physical realm like the surface of a pond.
This caused the elves to loose imortality and "quicken" into the physical world. This is described as the metaphor of the elvish pantheon being tricked into their prisons by Fen'Harel, which describes the first primal fade entity the newly sentient human subconcious had created.
This is why the elves are far more geneticaly adaptable, and elf/human ofspring loose their elvenness.
Demons and spirits are echos from before the veil, ripples of the interaction of the physical and the fade. Since the veil they became traped in the fade, only able to channel themselves through physical sentients.
The elves actually lived for many centuries along side the humans before the fall of Arlathan (this is hinted at in the dalish origin story). They were not true imortals in this time, but due to their residual conectedness to the fade, even with the veil formed over it, they were able to extend their lives to be near imortal. An example of this is what the Dalish elf leader did when he summoned the entity in the forest to curse the humans.
Over time the elves affinity with the fade weakened but they were still superior in their connection with it over humans.
Humans learnt to control their fade reflections more under direction from their elvish overlords. Eventually a group of rebels (the imperium) attacked Arlathan and sacked the city.
The golden city was the fade mirror, or the spirit of Arlathan, created by the collective conciousness of the elves of the city. When the physical city was sacked the golden city was also attacked and withered. The residual anger in the elvish psyche post this apocolypse gave birth to the black city.
Pure elves still have a residual connection to the fade, though weakened by the veil. Indeed some spirits of ancient pure elves are trapped on the physical realm (brecyllian forest ruins, trainer of Arcane Warrior spec) and these entities retain a strong psyche hold over various fade entities like the black city.
The Old Gods are fade vessels that the Imperium created to assault the golden city, they are weapons that they used to strike out at the elves from the fade, whilst the magisters attacked Arlathan in the physical realm. It was a co-ordinated strike from two fronts.
Darkspawn are the toxic fallout that resulted from this war.
Of course, the maker itself is just a metaphor used by the powerfull mage Andraste many centuries later in order to harness the collective power of a new class of dissidents among the new human lower class. She harnessed this into a powerfull fade entity and used it to repeat history to overthrow the new overlords of the human mage ruled imperium. Posibly some of Andrastes power came from her collusion with elves that still remembered the sacking of Arlathan and had old knowledge of how to wield the fade.
On her death the imperium recognised that the idea Andraste had sown in the populous would give birth to new powerful fade entities. This is why they tried to "switch" to andraste/maker cult worship, to harness this power. But the entity was too damaged and shattered after it imprisoned the old god entities, and hense the schisim of the chantry, and the mere splinter that the imperium wield, vs other splinters such as the power around the ashes etc which are powered by the sentients psyche.
High dragons may be smart enough to know that being worshiped will allow them to gain power via the fade, hence the example of the cult of andraste in haven. Perhaps when one of these cults harnesses enough power for a high dragon, or the high dragon becomes too ambitious, it stumbles on an imprisioned old god in the fade and looses. The result being a High dragon abomination, possesed by an old god entity.
Even if its body is slain, because the old god has channeled itself through a high dragon's soul/mind, it stays in the physical realm, posessing another darkspawn and morphing it into a physical reflection of the origional conduit between the old god and the physical realm.
This is how I would speculate it works. What scares me is even if morrigan manages to distill the old god essence removing some of the weaponisation of the entity, this new child will have the soul equivalent of a refined and distilled sentient nuke!
Modifié par code2501, 24 novembre 2009 - 11:16 .
#34
Posté 24 novembre 2009 - 11:41
Tennmuerti
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jeckaldied wrote...
I feel that the Archdemon is simply a high dragon possessed by some extra
special darkspawn taint (Supertaint, for lack of an actual term).
If I was a big badass dragon that was high and had Supertaint I'd think I was a God too.
#35
Posté 24 novembre 2009 - 01:45
Mork_ba
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marshalleck wrote...
Show me how the Maker is any more a god than an immortal and incredibly powerful dragon.
Case against the Maker: dragons undeniably exist. Their presence and effect on the world can be directly observed, particularly when one becomes corrupted immediately preceding a Blight. When was the last time the Maker did anything for anyone?
I'm with you! Sod the chantry bs!
#36
Posté 24 novembre 2009 - 01:54
Behindyounow
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relhart wrote...
Hmm I didn't realize all of the Old Gods were Dragons, I saw them more as Deamons, able to take the bodies they wanted (Dragons just being the most powerful form available)
I'm going to go with this. Only female dragons have wings, but why is the archdemon referred to as a he?
#37
Posté 24 novembre 2009 - 02:16
Kalle88
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It is difficult to say exactly what the Old Gods are with the info we have, but perhaps we can say
what they certainly are not. As the writers often state, one never knows what
is "belived to be true" and what actually "IS true".
For example, the idea that the magisters sin corrupted the golden city and
created the darkspawn is something that is "belived to be true", and
the developers will not confirm nor deny the idea. It seems, hovewer, that the
developers have confirmed that the Olds gods were NOT spirits.
A Gaider post from Dragonagecentral:
The idea that the Olds gods were just ordinary dragons also seems to have been
refuted. I could be wrong, but since the old gods spoke to the magister in the
dreams, they must have had intelligence. And the writers have time and again
stated that dragons are not intelligent in the way they are in D&D.
-
One last thing that I think is worh discussing, is the fact that some Grey
Wardens know where the remaining Old Gods are buried. This is stated in The
Calling novel.
How can they know this? Have they acquired some ancient lore knowledge, or
have they explored the underground tunnels? At any rate, the fact that
they know this seems to suggest that there were 7 dragons buried in the ground,
Old Gods or not.
After reading through some developers posts I think the following picture
emerges:
The Old Gods are trapped underground and
cannot escape. Yet they can still dream, and could therefore contact the
Tevinter mages through the fade. In exchange for the promise of freeing them,
the Tevinter mages are taught magic by the Old Gods.
When the mages finally have enough arcane knowledge, the Old Gods lay out their
plan for the mages on how to free them from their underground prisons. It
involves entering the Golden
City. When the mages do
this, they are infected with the darkspawn taint.*
[/i]*From here we have two possible scenarios.
1. The Old gods planned this all along, the magisters were meant to be infected by the taint and bring into the world.
2. The Old Gods were unaware of this. This seems unlikely, but since Morrigan at the end of the game speaks of an "uncorrupted essence of and Old God" the darkspawn and the Old Gods perhaps aren't the same force.[/i]
what they certainly are not. As the writers often state, one never knows what
is "belived to be true" and what actually "IS true".
For example, the idea that the magisters sin corrupted the golden city and
created the darkspawn is something that is "belived to be true", and
the developers will not confirm nor deny the idea. It seems, hovewer, that the
developers have confirmed that the Olds gods were NOT spirits.
A Gaider post from Dragonagecentral:
The Old Gods were trapped in their ancient prisons underneath the earth.
Their minds, however, roamed the Fade -- presumably the same as any dreamer's
might -- and contacted the first magisters (who back then were known as
"dreamers" and had learned on their own to walk the Fade as mages do
now)
So they weren't spirits, really, no. Spirits are creatures that are native to
the Fade..
The idea that the Olds gods were just ordinary dragons also seems to have been
refuted. I could be wrong, but since the old gods spoke to the magister in the
dreams, they must have had intelligence. And the writers have time and again
stated that dragons are not intelligent in the way they are in D&D.
-
One last thing that I think is worh discussing, is the fact that some Grey
Wardens know where the remaining Old Gods are buried. This is stated in The
Calling novel.
How can they know this? Have they acquired some ancient lore knowledge, or
have they explored the underground tunnels? At any rate, the fact that
they know this seems to suggest that there were 7 dragons buried in the ground,
Old Gods or not.
After reading through some developers posts I think the following picture
emerges:
The Old Gods are trapped underground and
cannot escape. Yet they can still dream, and could therefore contact the
Tevinter mages through the fade. In exchange for the promise of freeing them,
the Tevinter mages are taught magic by the Old Gods.
When the mages finally have enough arcane knowledge, the Old Gods lay out their
plan for the mages on how to free them from their underground prisons. It
involves entering the Golden
City. When the mages do
this, they are infected with the darkspawn taint.*
[/i]*From here we have two possible scenarios.
1. The Old gods planned this all along, the magisters were meant to be infected by the taint and bring into the world.
2. The Old Gods were unaware of this. This seems unlikely, but since Morrigan at the end of the game speaks of an "uncorrupted essence of and Old God" the darkspawn and the Old Gods perhaps aren't the same force.[/i]
Modifié par Kalle88, 24 novembre 2009 - 02:17 .
#38
Posté 24 novembre 2009 - 02:29
Kalle88
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I'm going to go with this. Only female dragons have wings, but why is the archdemon referred to as a he?
This is a good point. This seems to further strengthen the idea that Old Gods might look like dragons, but in reality have very little in common with the animal-like dragons that live in Thedas today.
#39
Posté 24 novembre 2009 - 11:30
Rainstorm01
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Kalle88 wrote...
[/i]*From here we have two possible scenarios.
1. The Old gods planned this all along, the magisters were meant to be infected by the taint and bring into the world.
2. The Old Gods were unaware of this. This seems unlikely, but since Morrigan at the end of the game speaks of an "uncorrupted essence of and Old God" the darkspawn and the Old Gods perhaps aren't the same force.[/i]
at any rate i think its pretty obvious that this taint is somewhat physical and does not seem to corrupt the soul. If the Darkspawn taint the dragons into becoming their Archdemon, then it means those trapped dragons are evilish of soul from even before the taint? I must admit its a good explanation that those 7 Dragons, trapped within the earth contacted the Magisters in the fade and used them to be freed from their prisons. Of course, to make such assumptions you need to buy the fact that those dragons are either evil from the start or desperately driven by vengeance....
#40
Posté 24 novembre 2009 - 11:51
DrawnArrow
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Rainstorm01 wrote...
Kalle88 wrote...
[/i]*From here we have two possible scenarios.
1. The Old gods planned this all along, the magisters were meant to be infected by the taint and bring into the world.
2. The Old Gods were unaware of this. This seems unlikely, but since Morrigan at the end of the game speaks of an "uncorrupted essence of and Old God" the darkspawn and the Old Gods perhaps aren't the same force.[/i]
at any rate i think its pretty obvious that this taint is somewhat physical and does not seem to corrupt the soul. If the Darkspawn taint the dragons into becoming their Archdemon, then it means those trapped dragons are evilish of soul from even before the taint? I must admit its a good explanation that those 7 Dragons, trapped within the earth contacted the Magisters in the fade and used them to be freed from their prisons. Of course, to make such assumptions you need to buy the fact that those dragons are either evil from the start or desperately driven by vengeance....
Or they just...you know...want out of the ground, I don't think that's evil. I know I wouldn't want to be stuck in the ground while still alive.
#41
Posté 24 novembre 2009 - 11:57
Rainstorm01
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DrawnArrow wrote...
Or they just...you know...want out of the ground, I don't think that's evil. I know I wouldn't want to be stuck in the ground while still alive.
Well ... they want out of there badly enough to accept becoming tainted beings and destroy all life on the surface once thats done. If that isnt evil ..... if i want chocolate very badly and have no money, will i go shoot the candyman if im not evil? =P
Modifié par Rainstorm01, 24 novembre 2009 - 11:58 .
#42
Posté 25 novembre 2009 - 12:01
SithLordExarKun
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BlackLotus30 wrote...
Rainstorm01 wrote...
i would be thrilled to see a story involving the the Fade a little more. the sequel could ber about a group of heros trying to restore the Black City to its former glory, this involving facing and defeating the 4 corrupted magister that tainted it in the first place ....
Only to find out later that it was the chantry itself that commited the first sin? And blamed it on those poor mages because they were jealous of their powers:wizard:
Sounds like yevon in FFX, always preaching about not using machina and yet behind everyones back they use it while blaming the al bhed for machina/machines
#43
Posté 25 novembre 2009 - 12:07
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So my question is who came first, the Elven Gods, Old Gods, Maker, or are they all somehow intertwined... Also, where are the Magister Lords? Do they roam the fade, or do they reside in the Deep Roads searching for their Gods?
I think we can say with somewhat confidence that the Fade may play a bigger part in the later games.
I think we can say with somewhat confidence that the Fade may play a bigger part in the later games.
#44
Posté 25 novembre 2009 - 12:30
Rugaru
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Rainstorm01 wrote...
...its a fact that the Black City does exist...
Are you sure it really exists? As a dwarf I can't even enter the fade so for me it doesn't even compute that it might exist since the fade itself doesn't exist.
As anyone else not a mage...the fade is a dream and dreams aren't real so the black city indeed still does not exist.
As a mage, the fade is a dream world in which anything can be made "real" with thought...the spirit of valor's staff in the origin teaches that. So the black city could just always be seen only because it is a constant suggestion from the chantry and therefore everytime you enter the fade you "create" the black city. So in that regard it still does not exist.
#45
Posté 25 novembre 2009 - 12:35
Rugaru
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SithLordExarKun wrote...
BlackLotus30 wrote...
Rainstorm01 wrote...
i would be thrilled to see a story involving the the Fade a little more. the sequel could ber about a group of heros trying to restore the Black City to its former glory, this involving facing and defeating the 4 corrupted magister that tainted it in the first place ....
Only to find out later that it was the chantry itself that commited the first sin? And blamed it on those poor mages because they were jealous of their powers:wizard:
Sounds like yevon in FFX, always preaching about not using machina and yet behind everyones back they use it while blaming the al bhed for machina/machines
I blame it all on the Elves...its always the Elves fault when it comes to magic.
#46
Posté 25 novembre 2009 - 12:43
FlintlockJazz
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Elven Gods = Old Gods
Fen'Harel = Maker
That's my theory anyway. The Maker sealed away the Old Gods, Fen'Harel sealed away the Elven Gods. Of course, there are eight elf gods and only seven old gods, but maybe one of them died (or became the first broodmother or god of darkspawn maybe?) or just hasn't been accounted for. I just find it amusing and appropriate that the elven god of trickery would then set himself up as the Maker, possibly just for a laugh or because he has some overarching agenda that no one has yet worked out.
Fen'Harel = Maker
That's my theory anyway. The Maker sealed away the Old Gods, Fen'Harel sealed away the Elven Gods. Of course, there are eight elf gods and only seven old gods, but maybe one of them died (or became the first broodmother or god of darkspawn maybe?) or just hasn't been accounted for. I just find it amusing and appropriate that the elven god of trickery would then set himself up as the Maker, possibly just for a laugh or because he has some overarching agenda that no one has yet worked out.
#47
Posté 25 novembre 2009 - 12:47
MBirkhofer
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The old gods/dragons could not communicate with people directly. And still can't. They do so in dreams. This is established in the lore in a few places. one, the codex on the old gods, speaks of the Tvinter mages communicating with them.
The codex on dragon cults also mirrors this, mentioned again, the dragons are "thought" to be bare sentient, but clearly cults form around them symbiotically. The answer being, the dragon does communicate via dreams.
The archdemons continue this as well, speaking to the grey wardens in dreams.
As well as the Dalish origin mirror. Which is one of the means the Tvinter mages used to communicate with their old gods.
The old gods are simply very powerful dragons, a step higher, and more in touch with the fade/magic.
The Dalish origin is interesting as it does show Tvinter mages, with Elven artifacts and gods, in the ruins where they communicate with their Old gods. This is strong suggestion that the Dalish god pantheon is, in fact, the old dragon gods, under different names or something.
Bare in mind, the Dalish lore is also very fractured. it is word of mouth spoken, and largely lost with the loss of the Dales.
It, much like the chantry lore on the Maker is likely subject to lack of real facts, and is very biased.
The codex on dragon cults also mirrors this, mentioned again, the dragons are "thought" to be bare sentient, but clearly cults form around them symbiotically. The answer being, the dragon does communicate via dreams.
The archdemons continue this as well, speaking to the grey wardens in dreams.
As well as the Dalish origin mirror. Which is one of the means the Tvinter mages used to communicate with their old gods.
The old gods are simply very powerful dragons, a step higher, and more in touch with the fade/magic.
The Dalish origin is interesting as it does show Tvinter mages, with Elven artifacts and gods, in the ruins where they communicate with their Old gods. This is strong suggestion that the Dalish god pantheon is, in fact, the old dragon gods, under different names or something.
Bare in mind, the Dalish lore is also very fractured. it is word of mouth spoken, and largely lost with the loss of the Dales.
It, much like the chantry lore on the Maker is likely subject to lack of real facts, and is very biased.
#48
Posté 25 novembre 2009 - 01:12
Forumtroll
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On the Elven gods/Old gods problem. The eighth could be Flemeth.
#49
Posté 25 novembre 2009 - 01:34
Taritu
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Forumtroll wrote...
On the Elven gods/Old gods problem. The eighth could be Flemeth.
I was going to say that was stupid, but that's actually a very smart idea.
#50
Posté 25 novembre 2009 - 01:37
MBirkhofer
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Forumtroll wrote...
On the Elven gods/Old gods problem. The eighth could be Flemeth.
No, Flemeth is an abomination. Simply. No differant from Kitty, Mage tower desire, mage tower pride, Sophia Drysdan, etc. She summoned a fade spirit, made a deal, over the years the spirit ate her spirit till there was nothing left but the demon. then that demon bore, and took the bodies of its daughters.
