215 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

well said bEVEsthda.

[Bayz]

[quote]simfamSP wrote...

Something that we haven't really considered is that humans are a very independant race, we have never liked to the caged in to the point that we loose our free will.

The Qunari's system is the very oppisite of individualism and takes communism to the next level. Maybe it's tolerance comes from the Kossith way of life.

Even Tallis had trouble following the Qun, but it seems that the Kossith don't. Still, if we take a look at Par Vollen then we'd see alot of Qunari, both human and Kossith... still, we don't have much information on the place to confirm that.[/quote]

No need to go that north either, look at Isabella and Duncan, who come from Riviain (sp) which technically is a country following the Qun...not saying that either are Qunari but it is very far fetched to believe they are the only Rivianis that behave like that.

When comparing them, being humans or Tallis with the propper Grey Horny Gorillaz you actually spot plenty of differences there.

[quote]
[/quote][quote]simfamSP wrote...

Aye, Morocco it's self is a more 'morden' country becoming more Western every day. But, even if I spend a considerable amount of time in Asilah, I've visited a lot of the more 'isolated' and 'remote' areas of the Morocco.

I wouldn't compare it to Turkey, or some other Muslim countries, but it's still pretty mad when I see women covered up from head to toe with the only opening being a small slit for their eyes... In black and in a very hot country. Still it strenghtens my point of people being brought up a certain way. There is no chance in hell any woman in Western Europe would do that, even muslims. You might find some though, you certainly do in Gibraltar.[/quote]

No I mean in the separation of state and religion bit. In Turkey it is completely separated as it actually is in some countries in the close middle east. In North Western Africa they are in a middle point just yet.

You certainly do in Britain, which is cold anyway so they are not that bad...and some of them have even been raised within western societies as in "the ones ticking the White British box" in the census...its complicated, many Westerners feel themselves out of place with the western culture and want to find answers in other cultures, some do with the Japanese culture, some do with the Islam...and it is perfectly fine so long as they feel good with themselves and find their way, after all is we can't be happy and feel ourselves self realised what's the point of suffering through existence?

[quote]simfamSP wrote...
NO ANIMALS 4 LIFE BROO!

Hehe :-) I think it would be horrible to treat any creature of our planet like that. But humans more so due to their fondness of...speech hehe.[/quote]

Well I agree in boths statements. Pets are a responsability for life not just for xmas. now I am talking like Mister T foo'!

[quote]simfamSP wrote...
It sounds more like a really bad job for me. But the fact that most of these people were 'brought' instead of 'hired' does strengthen your point. Still you can compare those conditions to some horrible work conditions today, but they aren't 'slaves' in our terms, just 'hard workers' with little pay.

It's a delicate matter really, and there are ways for us to further our points of view. On one side they were technically 'brought' (as I said before) and kept as pets. But just having that payment meant that they were working; doing something productive for the economy; they were *employed.* Yet the lack of free will would also make them slaves... it's complicated no? xD[/quote]

Well, keeping in mid that even in the worst jobs your boss doesn't have the right to kill you to see what you have inside, I tend to disagree. That both groups work to exhaustion and that many jobst tend to also reduce a lot of stuff is true though, but there are not slaves anymore, so somebody has to do the hard work...often us but I am not complaining, after all we at least have a way of living compared with people who lose their jobs and we are not flagged and **** which is kind of improvement.

[quote]
Tranquill? Where did it say that? I know the Qun do not waste anything, so why make her tranquill? Still, it's not a thing I thought the Qunari did. Sten never mentioned it, nor did any codex (well the ones I read.)[/quote]

Nay you still have your memories when made tranquil it was something else they could do with no mages...can't remember now, will after my next playthroug of DA2 and will write it down but I can't remember what it was...

[quote]
And your right. Though the Qun have been using it for hundreds of years. ****'s only came into power in the 1930's so they only lasted around 15 years... dumbasses :-/[/quote]

Well Persians and other empires used that for ages, even our beloved Sparta did, a strict ****ed up indoctrination that started when the spartan was a child and...that when faced with the Macedonians focusing more on actually waging war that on "das triumph der will" and you know...maneouvering and **** got screwed all way round

[quote]
It's good to know that someone knows what 'the Rock' is hehe xD and I congratulate you on your perfect English mate :-) unless your not Spanish and just happen to live there... still I'd imagine not ;-)[/quote]

Haha the other way round actually. I am Spanish and I live in the UK, I had for the last what? 5 years now, wow time goes fast heh...thank you my English is definitely not the Queen's English but neither is of many of the Britons living here, heh
















[/quote]

[Bayz]

bEVEsthda wrote...

I think the discussion here is still missing one point, which I tried to illuminate a while back.

What some realize is that Qun is totalitarian and allows no personal freedom. That's good (that some realize that). Some go on to assume this is a matter of "collectivism" vs the "individual". Some think it's just about the different viewpoints of different cultures.

Look, I don't need to go to Morocco to hear someone poke at details in the western lifestyle. I can do that myself. Just as we're free to discuss those things also in Morocco. In Iran, though, or Syria, things are quite different.
And, most to the point, back in the Cambodia of the Kmehr Rouge,.. the RL society that most resembles Qun, IMO.

And btw, just a year ago, it would have been easy to find debaters claiming people in Syria or Libya seemed happy and content enough. Not even considering the fact that the Qun is fictious, which makes the perceived contentment also fictious.

But the really damning thing about the Qun is that it's founded on dogma. It's a society that don't search for answers, search for new answers, or search for better answers, on issues it already thinks it has "answers". And on new issues, the Qun will be interpreted in ways as if it already has those answers too..
Anyone striving in a different direction will be destroyed.

Why some would believe such a society is cool, is utterly beyond me. I'm not even going to try to put myself in their mind. That's the least insulting way I can formulate my opinion on this.

^
^
So this.

Btw still not getting why people keep comparing the Qun with communism. Communism as where the Communist Manifesto goes is actually about *shock* choices. Communists, at leas the ones that founded the International, were basically trying to win the fight of classes by making the companies be organized by the workers, destroying hierarchies and another point having everyone earning the same wages so you will decide whether to be a doctor or a soldier based on what you'd like not on the ammount of money you will end up at the end of the day.

Basically you eaned money from the state for living on it, not based on the effort\\prestige your activity took from you.

Yeah, hierarchyless choice that sounds SO QUN to me...I know it did derailed with the actual application during Stalin, but that's why Stalinism and Communism are considered often different movements, often Stalinism being considered War Communism, why? you would ask, because Stalin Implemented a system where it was the State through the army the ones controlling means of production, along with strengthening the grasp on the citizens of the union and the control the State had with them.

Now now, while the "controlling the citizens" bit does sound Qun, the Qunari will consider an abomination to have "Soldiers" doing the work of "Merchants" and so, therefore no Georgian Moustached Evolz for the Qunari.

Now, you compared Cambodia with the Qunari, that doesn't hold either. Pol Pot wanted to create a state of Farmer-Soldiers, controlled by the State, that means him, and which happened to have also a collectivist way of economics...

Farmer-Soldiers? In my Qunari?

The main thing the Qun is about is that you are taken to a path from an early age, and while you can go up through that path, you stick to it always. No Merchant-Soldier, No Farmer-Soldier no nanay nono, you are either a merchant or a soldier and you'd better be a good one and if you have to say something about it. Zip. It.

[bEVEsthda]

Bayz wrote...
Btw still not getting why people keep comparing the Qun with communism.

We're moving into dangerous waters here, discussing politics. But I would say people compare Qun to communism because it's also about implementing a dogma, from the top down. It's also possible to compare Qun to islamistic societies, like Iran or the Talibans, and many other "ism" movements and sects.

 Communism as where the Communist Manifesto goes is actually about *shock* choices. Communists, at leas the ones that founded the International, were basically trying to win the fight of classes by making the companies be organized by the workers, destroying hierarchies and another point having everyone earning the same wages so you will decide whether to be a doctor or a soldier based on what you'd like not on the ammount of money you will end up at the end of the day.

Well, you might be confusing the humanist/democratic values, which communism used in its propaganda but which we more typically see in non-communist societies, with communism itself.

Yeah, hierarchyless choice that sounds SO QUN to me...I know it did derailed with the actual application during Stalin, but that's why Stalinism and Communism are considered often different movements, often Stalinism being considered War Communism, why? you would ask, because Stalin Implemented a system where it was the State through the army the ones controlling means of production, along with strengthening the grasp on the citizens of the union and the control the State had with them.

Well, Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot and others, implemented dogma, just as Qun, though less complete or total. Stalin didn't. He used the totalitarian system, inherent in communism and inherited from Lenin, to implement a personal dictatorship. A thing which is certainly also possible in the framework of other economic systems. Anyway, Lenin and Stalin are criminals of the same order. Lenin is worse in my opinion, because he caused it all to happen, implemented the system of ruthless oppression and finally also actually killed off more people than Stalin (though this is not much realized by most, Stalin having seen more exposure as justifiedly vilified).

Now, you compared Cambodia with the Qunari, that doesn't hold either. Pol Pot wanted to create a state of Farmer-Soldiers, controlled by the State, that means him, and which happened to have also a collectivist way of economics...
Farmer-Soldiers? In my Qunari?

It's about ruthlessly and completely implementing a dogma on society. I considered details as peoples' assigned roles in that society an irrelevant issue.

Modifié par bEVEsthda, 17 décembre 2011 - 02:43 .

[Bayz]

Right but then people is just using it wrong. Communism is not just about implementing a dogma, keep in mind i am talking about Karl Marx's communism, not the actual implementation of that.

Implemented Communism did come with a new dogma, that is true...so was implemented burgeoisie movements during the French Revolution, so came before with divine Right in autocratic monarchies in Europe in the 15th century, so you can just use Authoritarian Dogmatic regime instead of using Communism as if it were the only form of Authoritarism. it will just be more accurate.

As a record Lenin didn't have time to implement a personality cult, he died quite early on his revolution...Stalin on the other hand (well take this with a grain of salt actually, I am talking on the point of view of russian books of people who underwent through the Perestroika, so anti Stalinist pro Lenininst Bias is there)

I mean, calling the Qun Communism is the equivalent of calling Stalin Borat, funny but not correct in a technically serious discussion right? And as a matter of fact it is not the first time somebody uses it in this forum...

No I am not communist, but I like politics so I like to keep myself informed. Know you are not asking but just drop that there.

Modifié par Bayz, 17 décembre 2011 - 02:43 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

bEVEsthda wrote...

I think the discussion here is still missing one point, which I tried to illuminate a while back.

What some realize is that Qun is totalitarian and allows no personal freedom. That's good (that some realize that). Some go on to assume this is a matter of "collectivism" vs the "individual". Some think it's just about the different viewpoints of different cultures.

Look, I don't need to go to Morocco to hear someone poke at details in the western lifestyle. I can do that myself. Just as we're free to discuss those things also in Morocco. In Iran, though, or Syria, things are quite different.
And, most to the point, back in the Cambodia of the Kmehr Rouge,.. the RL society that most resembles Qun, IMO.

And btw, just a year ago, it would have been easy to find debaters claiming people in Syria or Libya seemed happy and content enough. Not even considering the fact that the Qun is fictious, which makes the perceived contentment also fictious.

But the really damning thing about the Qun is that it's founded on dogma. It's a society that don't search for answers, search for new answers, or search for better answers, on issues it already thinks it has "answers". And on new issues, the Qun will be interpreted in ways as if it already has those answers too..
Anyone striving in a different direction will be destroyed.

Why some would believe such a society is cool, is utterly beyond me. I'm not even going to try to put myself in their mind. That's the least insulting way I can formulate my opinion on this.

Superbly posted.

[blothulfur]

And so the lone defender of the Qun stands his ground once more, back bent and brow heavy with sorrow. Beset on all sides he struggles to maintain the vision of what must be, a heroic defense against the tides of hate surging forth from the seas of prejudice.

And so beset, he grows strong.

Have to refute the major point of your post Bevesthda (that's damn tricky to pronounce), the Qunari show repeatedly that they are focused more on results than dogma. When the use of the lyrium tainted against them in the exalted march of the slavemaster kings proves effective they form a new role under the Qun for the Saarebas. When Sten is pressed for information he applauds the wardens wish to better himself through the acquisition of knowledge. The whole raison d'etre of the Qun is to excel in your role, study and conquer the new and thereby contribute to the greater good of the many.

As for freedom, there are are many roles under the body, mind and soul of the Qun and so long as one does not work against the pursuit of the greater good one is free to pursue enlightenment in whatever way they feel is appropriate. An inquisitive and curious Ashaad differs greatly from a disciplined and focused Sten yet both are part of the Antaam. A fearsome Talis of the Ben Hassrath, cold hearted and clear of purpose stands equal in the priesthood to the kind hearted tamassran who teach, test and train our children for the first twelve years of their life.

Our people are content, industrious and safe because they accept their role in the Qun and make it their own, they contribute to society and are praised as highly for their deeds as the Arishok returning from Kirkwall with the tome of Koslun in one hand and the scrawny neck of the thief in his other. Equality, freedom and unity have forged an oasis of peace in Par Vollen, hinting at the paradise that awaits us on the path to enlightenment and shaming the filthy bas who would enslave their own kind in their endless rooting for wealth and power in the muck of their own degenerate deeds.

I have to admit that the level of the arguments being levelled against us Qunari have stepped up since I last beheld this thread, in such heated and rational discussion there can be no evil born for only in unity and the sharing of revelations is true wisdom found. It reminds of long days spent debating the meaning of each of Kosluns words in the sun drenched amphitheatres of Par Vollen, heady days of youth and excitement.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

[Bayz]

*safety*, good quote from Mr Franklin. In all the Founding Fathers used to be quite inspirational, and I am not american.

[blothulfur]

Exactly. The slavemaster kings of feudal thedas repressing their own people under the guise of being better because of inbred blood and the favour of a non existent maker, often must demonise the foreigner to assuage the masses and lionise themselves but it is a lie. We have freedom, unity, peace and equality, the bas do not need these fat slavers mouthing cliche platitudes to protect them.

class is an evil falsehood, a man should only be judged on his own deeds, not metaphysical lies and the achievements of their ancestors. Rise up against such hateful injustice bas and forge your own fate as all Qunari do.

Well off to bounce drunkards again, I bloody hate silly season.

Anaan esaam Qun.

Modifié par blothulfur, 17 décembre 2011 - 08:23 .

[Bayz]

What Thedas thingy you are talking about my dear? We are talking about how your philosophy would apply to our existence.

No Feudal kings at this side, some kings that much is true, no Feudal though. mostly republics, some democracies, most authoritarian dictatorships and a couple of Federations...

Oh and rivers and mountains...

[Killjoy Cutter]

The title of the thread says it all -- this is a thread about the Qun being real, not about the Qun in the fictional setting of DA2.

(In DA2, the Qun is just another hardline dogma for zealots to cling to.)

[Fast Jimmy]

The Qun is superior to any Real Life philosophy of collectivism and/or communal dictatorship, like the examples given of Iran, Cambodia and the like.

The reason it is superior is because it has survived.

The problem with every Real Life hardline philosophy the requires a national devotion to the common good is that it fails. Eventually, those in power abuse the people the doctrine is designed to protect and they revolt. Its happened countless times throughout the past 150 years, when these types of philosophies first began to take form.

Meanwhile, the Qun has existed for centuries as the Kossith's main form of government. And while there have been dissenters and those who have left the Qun and their society, it still remains intact. In addition to that, they have advanced culturally (as Sten is a fine appreciator of art work created by other cultures, showing he understands basic concepts of form and stroke technique at the very least), scientifically (as they have developed cannons), militarily (as they were set to nearly conquer a large chunk of Tevinter prior to losing their Tome) and economically.

The Qun has survived transitions of power, it has survived defectors, it has survived outside influences and it has survived attacks by other religions, most notably the Chantry.

So if we are to say "if the Qun were real" we would have to take all this into consideration. That the tenets of the Qun, which are largely a mystery to us despite both games dealing with the Qunari, is successful at indoctrinating its followers into believing as is necessary, but also be adaptable enough to deal with constant new threats and situations, proving that its teachings and methods are sound. It shows us that it truly does conquer the baser natures of the individual and teaches them to serve the common good in a way that is not mindless, but mindful. It shows that the means at which a role is assigned at birth is exceptionally accurate, as centuries of under-utilized talent would cause its people to be backward and weak, not astute and strong. It shows that in all societies a level of personal freedom is surrendered (in the form of laws) but that the Qun is perhaps the perfect balance of this surrendering of freedom and personal choice.

So... the Qun would be great in Real Life because it is great in the Dragon Age franchise. Disagree with it as you see fit, but it is superior to any other form of group government our world has so far concocted.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 18 décembre 2011 - 01:13 .

[Bayz]

It has survived because it is a philosophy in a Fantasy setting?

I mean, look at dragons, a creature like that would just die off if it were real, still in the DA universe they are still around.

I don't think that "because it was succesful in the DA universe" is actually a valid argument...

I mean I could argue why, dunno, drow Menzoberranyr society is superior to any human society in our world because has survived and people would just look at me funny...

Modifié par Bayz, 18 décembre 2011 - 01:18 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Bayz wrote...

It has survived because it is a philosophy in a Fantasy setting?

...

I mean I could argue why, dunno, drow Menzoberranyr society is superior to any human society in our world because has survived and people would just look at me funny...

You could. And they probably would.

But, then again... you just gave me a funny face. So I'd say you're free to do so?

[Lithuasil]

The Qunari first appeared four centuries ago, meaning they've lasted considerably shorter then many, many dynasties/forms of government in the real world - now compare them to other fictional societies, and four hundred years aren't even worth noting anymore - not to mention that they appeared with the exact same state of society/science they have now, meaning they *completely* stagnated.

So even by your own, entirely ludicrous standards, your argument is invalid.

[Fast Jimmy]

Lithuasil wrote...

The Qunari first appeared four centuries ago, meaning they've lasted considerably shorter then many, many dynasties/forms of government in the real world - now compare them to other fictional societies, and four hundred years aren't even worth noting anymore - not to mention that they appeared with the exact same state of society/science they have now, meaning they *completely* stagnated.

So even by your own, entirely ludicrous standards, your argument is invalid.

<sigh> I didn't say any form of government, period. That IS ludicrous.

I said in comparisson to humanity's attempts at other collective or communal type governments. Which is a drastically different statement.

Communist Russia may have been the longest going, although China and Cuba both may give them a run for the money, time wise.

But Cuba is holding onto itself by a thread. And China has a stock market and a banking market... so its hardly a communist ideal society.

The Qun has existed, in its relatively same form, for centuries. No dynasty or noble blood line succession, no democratically elected government. Its a communal society where everyone fills their role, serves their purpose and enjoys little to no extraneous material comforts. Its leaders follow the letter of the law just as devotely as its citzenry, if not moreso. 

No government like that has existed and sustained itself for four hundred years. To say it has in humanity's history is to be ludicrous.

[Killjoy Cutter]

As noted, the Qun also exists entirely in the imagination, and has as its main and most numberous adherents an imaginary non-human species.

Its length of survival is entirely at the whim and fiat of the writers, and is therefore meaningless as an argument in its favor.

[Fast Jimmy]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

As noted, the Qun also exists entirely in the imagination, and has as its main and most numberous adherents an imaginary non-human species.

Its length of survival is entirely at the whim and fiat of the writers, and is therefore meaningless as an argument in its favor.

Is it?

Sten, a mid-level military commander, has a deep grasp of the Qun, and can counter even the most obtuse questions about its logic without hesitation. Do you think a similar ranking person in one of our armies could articulate the deeper intracacies of their religion and/or government? The average American on the street, if Jay Leno can be believed, can't name the three branches of government, let alone go on a diatribe about the intracacies of a representative government or of captilistic markets.

The length of time the Qun has been around is a bit arbitrary, true. But its citizens are well versed in it and know how to question and still follow it. And have been doing so for generations (we'll leave the 400 years things aside for a while). Can any communcal government/religion claim the same? One or two generations down, the youth begin questioning the establisment, not seeing the logic behind the way things are working. Revolution or crack down happens not long afterward.

But the Qun has existed despite this. Kossith grow up and know their place and do not question it... and are fine with not questioning it. They are not ignorant of the questions one could ask, as they know the reasons and can answer them clearly and with the same passion as a founding father. Even those that leave and choose their own life still believe they have failed the Qun and themselves. We have yet to encounter a Kossith that was impartial about the Qun. How many humans can you say were never apathetic about their religion or politics?

[Lithuasil]

No - no other communal society can claim the same. Neither could any communal society ever claim technical or scientific superiority, throughout history.

The Qun can, for a simple reason. Because the writers wanted an evil, that can be perceived as threatening. The Qunari, in reality, would be just as pathetic as their on-screen counterparts. (Like any communal and therefore by default utterly inhuman society). Usually, if you use such a society as antagonists, you go the "historic" route, making them many. Bioware tried to make them threatening by heaving other advantages on them, that have yet to be justified (Though I have enough faith in the writing staff, even after the MotA disaster, to trust there'll be some explanation in the future, most likely along the lines of Kosluns teachings as well as the techniques passed on to the qunari being part of some ruse or intrigue).

[Fast Jimmy]

Lithuasil wrote...

No - no other communal society can claim the same. Neither could any communal society ever claim technical or scientific superiority, throughout history.

Well, that's not ENTIRELY true. 

I mean, Russia had technology that rivaled the U.S.'s both in terms of military and space. And currently, China and Russia are the only means of getting into space right now, two communist countries.

These types of civilizations can often accomplish incredible things. Conquering countries, breaking through technological barriers, eliminating ethnic or racial tensions between its people.. often at the expense of the common man, in many instances. And, as with almost everything in a collectivism-based society, not for an extended period of time.

The writers have given the Qunari mythical qualities, to be sure. And there is no reason given for their philosophies continued success other than "it has." But just like if we were having a discussion if Abominations were in Real Life then we would have to assume there is a Fade, demons and other spirits, if we assume the Qun was brought to Real Life, it would have instructions on how to carry out its philosophy as the Kossith have, with the hope that we would be able to replicate its longevity.

[Lithuasil]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

The writers have given the Qunari mythical qualities, to be sure. And there is no reason given for their philosophies continued success other than "it has." But just like if we were having a discussion if Abominations were in Real Life then we would have to assume there is a Fade, demons and other spirits, if we assume the Qun was brought to Real Life, it would have instructions on how to carry out its philosophy as the Kossith have, with the hope that we would be able to replicate its longevity.

Wrong.
An abomination causally requires both mages and demons to exist, since those are the components it's made up of.

The Qun requires a large supply of gullible idiots and few people willing to exploit them to exist, and we have plenty of those in real life. Success (as everything we see of them ingame proves) is by no means an inherent component of the Qun.
We *can* however predict that an inhuman, dogmatic, hypocritical, utterly static system bend on theological war with everyone, would not work very well in real life, and that no sane person would want a part in it.
(If nothing else - the shear amount of benefits the writers heaped on the Qunariy, coupled with the fact that despite having every possible advantage in warfare, period they still don't rule thedas, should serve as sentiment how little trust the writers themselves put in the system, consciously or not)

[Fast Jimmy]

Lithuasil wrote...
Wrong.
An abomination causally requires both mages and demons to exist, since those are the components it's made up of.

If you're going to be rude about it... WRONG. It has been established that demons can possess non-mage humans given enough power and reason.

Lithuasil wrote...
The Qun requires a large supply of gullible idiots and few people willing to exploit them to exist, and we have plenty of those in real life. Success (as everything we see of them ingame proves) is by no means an inherent component of the Qun.
We *can* however predict that an inhuman, dogmatic, hypocritical, utterly static system bend on theological war with everyone, would not work very well in real life, and that no sane person would want a part in it.
(If nothing else - the shear amount of benefits the writers heaped on the Qunariy, coupled with the fact that despite having every possible advantage in warfare, period they still don't rule thedas, should serve as sentiment how little trust the writers themselves put in the system, consciously or not)

Well, that and the fact that they have giant demon horns, yes. They are meant to be menacing bad guys.

And while I have my own theories about why the Qunari haven't conquered the majority of Thedas in relation to their possession of their sacred Tome, the Qun only states that all must obey the Qun. It does not state that all must be conquered through military means, although that seems to be the preferred method of Kossith conversion.

Christianity, Islam and other religions all claim that everyone should be converted. That does not mean that these religions have failed because everyone is not yet converted. Nor that these religions have not conquered every country in the world.

And, to top of my last comment of the night, I never said the Qun would be better in Real LIfe than, say, Democracy or self-determinism. I just said it would be superior to any other communal/greater-good/collectivism religion/government that we have in Real Life. 

[The Baconer]

*Only reads OP*

No.