701 réponses à ce sujet

[warriorN7]

As I have been playing ME from the start with a paragon shep I've been hearing alot about consequences for paragon decisions in ME3 and I was wondering will some of you other paragons make renegade decisions e.g kill a hole race or party member just for the best outcome. I would like to think  that whatever goes wrong i wouldn't compromise my Shepard but in saying that if anything happened to liara or wrex i would consider it. any other paragons thought about this

[PnXMarcin1PL]

*Hints from leaked content removed*

Modifié par Selene Moonsong, 06 décembre 2011 - 03:17 .

[knightnblu]

That's an interesting question. I could go into a long dissertation on the ethics and morality of the choices we make, but that would be some major boring crap. So I will just say that I am a paragon player who makes renegade decisions when the situation/stakes demand that I do. Fortunately, that doesn't occur all that often. For example, if you attempt to pull a weapon on me I will kill you. In ME2 that resulted in the deaths of one Asari and two Krogan. Waiting for an individual to pull a weapon and use it is just stupid, therefore I gunned them down. Frankly, I can't see why that would be a "renegade" option because it is just common sense to me, but there it is.

[xentar]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Another paragon vs. renegade thread? Here we go again...

Why can't people be playing as normal people instead?

Modifié par xentar, 06 décembre 2011 - 02:26 .

[Labrev]

xentar wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Another paragon vs. renegade thread? Here we go again...

Why can't people be playing as normal people instead?

Majority do play that way. Only thing is, this site makes it seem otherwise because the renegade die-hards/Cerberus loyalists believe that if you're not with them, you're a paragon/biodrone - and perpetrate that misconception ad nauseum.

In reality, most are just playing their way, which is a mix of both 99% of the time.

[CptBomBom00]

Welll, I've read some of the leak, few day's ago and ! thing had me pissed off, but I hope it was changed, if not I will be really pissed off,like customer at McDonald's waiting for his meal 2 hours.

[GMagnum]

origins did it bettr w/ da party hate/dislike thin tbh

[Chewin]

GMagnum wrote...

origins did it bettr w/ da party hate/dislike thin tbh

Yeah, though I don't want to constantly give diamonds to people to increase their approval.

[someone else]

I find some paragon choices just not what I want to do - frequently minor choices, like telling mordin to shut up the first time you meet him, or the ren choice on his loyalty mission - I always take that.

Lots of 'ink' spilled on these boards complaining  that - apparently - no degree of renegadeness really impacts the story arc of ME3 to the exent of offering an alternate 'best outcomes - conversely I don't think I'm going to be forced into a renegade choice to get one, either.

Seems the major impacts will be on whether you attend a wedding or a funeral with your LI at the end...

hope i'm wrong

Modifié par someone else, 06 décembre 2011 - 03:18 .

[AlexXIV]

I will be honest, I am a paragon player, but my squadmates are closer to me than a random number of strangers. Whoever is in Shep's crew and willing to give his or her life for others is worth more than maybe 100 or 1000 people. Of course to save all of humanity or any other race there is no sacrifice too big. But if I think for example about the 300.000 batarians, even if they were 300.000 humans ... would I sacrifice for example Liara, Tali, Garrus, Wrex, etc ... to save them? No I wouldn't. Because any of these is worth more to me (and probably the galaxy) than 300.000 random people. May be cruel or non-paragonish in this case, but that's how I feel.

[mineralica]

Depends on my Paragon.

- Alyson would sacrifice anyone for greater good (sacrificing LI will s**k, but it's still doable for her)

- Max would let the galaxy burn if it will be needed to save Jack.

- Mona is more spiritual and doesn't believe good might be achieved through evil means (here's the difference between Alyson and Mona - if pushed into situation "death of entire galaxy or you personally will organise entire human race and lead them into tubes -> genetic material" without third option, Mona would pick the former while Alyson - the latter).

- Mark agrees on everything what won't damage his "hero of the galaxy" look

Modifié par mineralica, 06 décembre 2011 - 03:27 .

[Someone With Mass]

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

Majority do play that way. Only thing is, this site makes it seem otherwise because the renegade die-hards/Cerberus loyalists believe that if you're not with them, you're a paragon/biodrone - and perpetrate that misconception ad nauseum.

In reality, most are just playing their way, which is a mix of both 99% of the time.

Kind of sad when people play the master race card too.

The really funny thing is that I find some neutral responses to be better than either Renegade or Paragon in some cases.

But what these Renegade and Cerberus supporters utterly fails to comprehend is that just because I play as a Paragon doesn't mean that I agree with every Paragon choice there is. Like they do with the Renegade choices.

It's fun when they're trying to defend the most sadistic and pointless actions, though.

[Alex_SM]

Except one playthrough in ME1 (where I wanted an specific save) I have never played as full paragon or full renegade.

[someone else]

Someone With Mass wrote...

The really funny thing is that I find some neutral responses to be better than either Renegade or Paragon in some cases.

Absolutely - an equivocal response often makes the most dramatic sense - even over a 'morally' superior one, or a "tough minded" renegade respons - but that means you need to care about/have an ear for the dialog and theater of the game as well as its moral profundities which to some - if posts are to be believed - are the raison-d'etre and  the only thing of value in the series.

Modifié par someone else, 06 décembre 2011 - 03:46 .

[Xilizhra]

There is no compromise, there is victory.

[AlexXIV]

You know there is something I like about this thread and the OP.

Thing is that in ME/ME2 morally 'good' choices don't cost you anything, in opposite, people pat your shoulder for doing it. So how hard is it to be a good guy? Not at all.

That's something that bothers me and why I personaly do advocate/support sacrifice. Shep says himself he will fight and sacrifice to win. So far he fought, but he sacrificed nothing.

[Xilizhra]

That's something that bothers me and why I personaly do advocate/support sacrifice. Shep says himself he will fight and sacrifice to win. So far he fought, but he sacrificed nothing.

Except a whole star system. And a couple thousand Alliance people at the Battle of the Citadel. And arguably just the numerous people whom she has to kill regardless.

[someone else]

Xilizhra wrote...

There is no compromise, there is victory.

aww jeez, can't we agree on sumthin?  [...you may wish to revisit some of the classics on your bookshelf - would suggest The Prince and the Art of War, for starters.]

compromise, strategic retreat, offering an appearance of weakness, making concessions when your position is inferior - all may be found on the path to ultimate victory.

[CptData]

AlexXIV wrote...

You know there is something I like about this thread and the OP.

Thing is that in ME/ME2 morally 'good' choices don't cost you anything, in opposite, people pat your shoulder for doing it. So how hard is it to be a good guy? Not at all.

That's something that bothers me and why I personaly do advocate/support sacrifice. Shep says himself he will fight and sacrifice to win. So far he fought, but he sacrificed nothing.

*cough* the one you left on Virmire will say something different *cough* Shepard died once and had to work for Cerberus *cough*

Lets say, Shepard had to sacrifice something to come that far. And although it's not said Shepard has to sacrifice more in ME3, I'm sure s/he will consider every dead person as sacrifice, even if not done by him/herself.

[Xilizhra]

someone else wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

There is no compromise, there is victory.

aww jeez, can't we agree on sumthin?  [...you may wish to revisit some of the classics on your bookshelf - would suggest The Prince and the Art of War, for starters.]

compromise, strategic retreat, offering an appearance of weakness, making concessions when your position is inferior - all may be found on the path to ultimate victory.

I know, I wasn't being wholly literally serious.

[AlexXIV]

CptData wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

You know there is something I like about this thread and the OP.

Thing is that in ME/ME2 morally 'good' choices don't cost you anything, in opposite, people pat your shoulder for doing it. So how hard is it to be a good guy? Not at all.

That's something that bothers me and why I personaly do advocate/support sacrifice. Shep says himself he will fight and sacrifice to win. So far he fought, but he sacrificed nothing.

*cough* the one you left on Virmire will say something different *cough* Shepard died once and had to work for Cerberus *cough*

Lets say, Shepard had to sacrifice something to come that far. And although it's not said Shepard has to sacrifice more in ME3, I'm sure s/he will consider every dead person as sacrifice, even if not done by him/herself.

Well Virmire wasn't a sacrifice. It was a loss, that's for sure. Now if the question had been to save 100.000 civilians and sacrifice one of your squad, then it would be a morale dilemma. But to pick one of two equally good or bad people to survive, that's not a sacrifice. As well you could claim that Jenkins was a sacrifice or the Normandy, or the old crew, Pressley, etc. But it wasn't Shepard's choice to sacrifice them. Sacrifice is if you make a decision. Everything else is just bad things happening. And even if I would count Shep's death as a sacrifice because he wanted to make sure everyone else survives (not that we had a choice in this though) then he still got better ...

Modifié par AlexXIV, 06 décembre 2011 - 03:59 .

[AlexXIV]

Xilizhra wrote...

That's something that bothers me and why I personaly do advocate/support sacrifice. Shep says himself he will fight and sacrifice to win. So far he fought, but he sacrificed nothing.

Except a whole star system. And a couple thousand Alliance people at the Battle of the Citadel. And arguably just the numerous people whom she has to kill regardless.

I don't think these things qualify as sacrifice either. Because you are not making the choice to lose something valueable to you for the sake of an ideal. Say if you had to give your right hand because you won't lie or something. A REAL sacrifice that costs something, not something you actually don't miss and get a medal on top.

[someone else]

Xilizhra wrote...
I know, I wasn't being wholly literally serious.

I know and wasn't trying to be preachy - but its relevant to the OPs point - renegade choices are imo really necessary to the 'believability'  of the ME story - Shep would have been an idiot to warn the bataraians -[ in what drug-induced reverie could she possibly have imagined 300,000 people could manage to pack a toothbrush on 60 minutes notice, much less get not only off-world but through a mass relay and out of the system?!?]   - and simultaneously provide hard proof that she was on the asteroid, and likely the one pulling the trigger?

sorry for going on about that one, but there are plenty of others - point is pure paragon or renegade is narratively less satisfying than a mixed play - unless you're a partizan in the cerberus wars...