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[AlexXIV]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

And failing every time.

You seem to mistake writer bias for failing, Xil.

In the world of fictional stories the writer is the all mighty god.

Sure, but that doesn't invalidate any of what I said nor does it mean the writing isn't at times very contrived or just poor.

I never said you were wrong. I just disagree with some of your points.

Life's too short to have so many thoughts about everything really. If I was an Asari then ... maybe ... but in my meager 150 years of life expectancy ...

[DiebytheSword]

Saphra Deden wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...

So you fear justifying yourself after a possible failure?  Not being judgemental, just asking.

No, but I do prefer taking rational actions rather than acting on my gut or my morals. Shepard has too much responsibility to have the luxury of doing what he thinks is right (in a moral sense). Like killing the rachni queen. Is it wrong to kill her? Ethically speaking, yes I think it is. However is it not worse to let her go? If you kill her you snuff out one life, but if you let her go you endanger countless others, others whom you have a responsibility to look out for, to defend.

That's why I regard Paragon Shepard's reasons for blowing up the Collector base to be rather heinous. He's so arrogant he would judge the entire species as worthy or not of servival based on whether or not it lives up to his moral code. I won't make such judgements, I don't believe it is my place.

I prefer the rational to the irrational myself, but I do recognize that there are times when you must not compromise principal to expidite results or achieve an end goal.  Its what separates us from Soveriegn's observation of genetic life being a mutation, an accident.  I believe we are more than the sum of our parts.

I agree partially on the Rachni queen, however there is one key part which you did not mention.  You are speaking of extinction, not just the death of one, but an entire race defiled by the Reapers, and punished for that as well.  I choose to save the Rachni, because its not my place to choose whether they live or die.  Same with the heretic Geth.

For the record, that was one of my favorite parts of ME1, the fact that no matter what you did, there was sound reasoning to harshly critique you from both your squadmates and the Council.

[Xilizhra]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I contend that it's less realistic for Shepard to be right for the wrong reasons so very many times than it is for many of the reasons to in fact be right. Far, far less realistic.

Yeah, that's why I say the writing is ****ty. It goes way too far in favoring the Paragon and really streches my suspension of disbelief.

It's regrettable that you're unable to enjoy the game.

[Xilizhra]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Life's too short to have so many thoughts about everything really. If I was an Asari then ... maybe ... but in my meager 150 years of life expectancy ...

That is no excuse. Too many lives are depending on you. When you ****-up people die, so you'd better do your best to avoid ****ing up and that means making rational, informed decisions whenever possible. Anything else is irresponsible.

And oh, how many times have you done just that...

[AlexXIV]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Life's too short to have so many thoughts about everything really. If I was an Asari then ... maybe ... but in my meager 150 years of life expectancy ...

That is no excuse. Too many lives are depending on you. When you ****-up people die, so you'd better do your best to avoid ****ing up and that means making rational, informed decisions whenever possible. Anything else is irresponsible.

Since I am the only one who CAN save the world they can kiss my hairy ass. If they are lucky I save them, if not we all go to hell together.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 07 décembre 2011 - 12:50 .

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...
That is no excuse. Too many lives are depending on you. When you ****-up people die, so you'd better do your best to avoid ****ing up and that means making rational, informed decisions whenever possible. Anything else is irresponsible.

You know you're just giving everyone reasons to ditch Cerberus as soon as they can, right?

[Alex_SM]

Renegade defenders seems to use lots of right wing rhetorics. 

Modifié par Alex_SM, 07 décembre 2011 - 12:54 .

[Xilizhra]

What's worse, allowing an extinct species to continue to be extinct or gambling with hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of lives?

I don't believe that the gamble is statistically significant, any more than stepping on a specific spot possibly causing a planet to explode.

[AdmiralCheez]

AlexXIV wrote...

Bleh I hate high-fiving. But oh well here you go.

*pic*

Yesssssss!

Anyway, anyone arguing that renegade decisions are inherently more logical needs to remember who punches the reporter.  Seriously, both paths have serious derp moments, and the renegade can be just as emotionally driven as the paragon.

[Heimdall]

Thank goodness even my main and most Paragon Shepard has shades of Renegade. I had him blow up the base because it seemed logical to me to eliminate the potential risk it represented and keep it out of the hands of the untrustworthy TIM. Though sure there might have been some sort of indignation for what they did to the colonists worming around in the back of my thoughts. Then I head canon my way out of Shepard's real reason and enjoy watching Shepard tell off TIM.

[AlexXIV]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Since I am the only one who CAN save they world they can kiss my hairy ass. If they are lucky I save them, if not we all go to hell.

Does your Shepard think he is the protagonist in a story or something? Wow, he really is delusional.

No, not really but he has a superiority complex because he always manages to do the impossible and often without breaking into a sweat. And everyone goes Shepard here Shepard there, saviour of the Citadel, first humans Spectre, etc, etc. Hard to keep your feet on the ground if everyone and their mom parades you around on their shoulders.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 07 décembre 2011 - 12:53 .

[Xilizhra]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

What's worse, allowing an extinct species to continue to be extinct or gambling with hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of lives?

I don't believe that the gamble is statistically significant, any more than stepping on a specific spot possibly causing a planet to explode.

You don't think releasing a biohazard in close proximity to a population center is risky?

Actually, going by Renegade reasoning, Noveria isn't really covered by Citadel law, and thus it's not actually my job to protect it. But I trust the rachni queen to not go after them anyway, yes.

[AdmiralCheez]

Saphra Deden wrote...

You don't think releasing a biohazard in close proximity to a population center is risky?

The rachni make their presence known, they get nuked.  There's too much money on Noveria for people not to take immediate action.  The queen would be foolish not to lay low.

The queen also makes it clear that she has no intentions of picking a fight with anyone, but that only counts if you're willing to take her for her word.

[Goody Two Shoes]

Anyone else notice that there are like four "Paragon Vs Renegade" threads on the front page?

[BlueMagitek]

Oh no, I'd imagine that nuking would come later; you're right that Noveria has too many valuable resources (as in information and facilities, possibly personnel) to let the Rachni run free, but I'd imagine they'd try to clear them out by hand first, lose meatgrinder full of people and then cut their losses and let the nukes fly.

[AdmiralCheez]

Goody Two Shoes wrote...

Anyone else notice that there are like four "Paragon Vs Renegade" threads on the front page?

We're running out of things to talk about again.  Can you tell?

[DiebytheSword]

Saphra Deden wrote...


I'm not punishing the queen for anything.

I never said you did.  Perhaps I was not clear, I meant the Council.  Then again, it doesn't matter since you don't think they were pawns of the reapers at one point. 

Saphra Deden wrote...
I'm also not aware of any solid evidence that the rachni were ever pawns of the Reapers. That argument doesn't hold up because if they had been Sovereign should have already known where the mu relay was.

"When Commander Shepard arrived and defeated Benezia, the queen saw the opportunity to appeal to Shepard for forgiveness, using the body of one of Benezia's commandos to translate. The conversation gave the implication that the rachni queens were influenced by a 'sour yellow note', "a tone from space [that] hushed one voice after another", implying they were not fully responsible for the Rachni Wars."

It appears that they were coerced against their will into fighting.  While there is no solid evidence, this is an example of you being wrong for the right reasons.  You have some reason to believe that something else was behind their attacks other than free will.

Saphra Deden wrote...
What's worse, allowing an extinct species to continue to be extinct or gambling with hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of lives?

I'm not prepared to compare apples to oranges.   Death of a single entity does not equal extinction, though you could argue that weaponized Rachni would overrun the galaxy and commit genocide.  It is an entire speices versus an undisclosed number of lives that may or may not be harmed.  This is the logic behind your Collector base connundrum as well:  You can't get back the Rachni if you kill them, but you can kill them later if they prove to be problematic, it would just be harder.

Saphra Deden wrote...
Indeed. It shows that you can't please everybody, at least as far as the Council is concerned. Though I feel that the negative/positive consequences should have extended beyond that briefing.

I think it will have implications going into ME3.

. . . And that was before I read the leak.

[naledgeborn]

Xilizhra wrote...

Actually, going by Renegade reasoning, Noveria isn't really covered by Citadel law, and thus it's not actually my job to protect it. But I trust the rachni queen to not go after them anyway, yes.

Wrong. It wouldn't be Noveria's problem. Without prior knowledge, if the rachni queen were indeed hostile how long do you think it'd take for the rachni to take Noveria? Pax system? Horse Head Nebula? 

Hint: Styx Theta Cluster.