167 réponses à ce sujet

[FlyinElk212]

Mei Mei wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

Mei Mei wrote...

A fear of death is natural and healthy. If anything his story arc is about atonement and redemption.

I'd say that's certainly a major part of it, but fear of death is also revealed as the "hidden" part of that arc if he was a LI.

This thread is killing me. LMAO 

Wut? I would say Thane's fear of death is quite evident thus where is the "hidden" aspect? He KNEW he was dying. Of course he was afraid, who wouldn't be?

I think what he means is that Thane doesn't reveal that his inevitable death bothers him UNTIL the final romance scene where he finally confesses it. He seems to be pretty okay with the fact when you first meet him, and doesn't show a shred of doubt until then. So that's the hidden arc?

Though I must say I'm 100% all about your atonement and redemption idea being his story arc, with a caveat-- his story is about atonement and redemption before his imposing death, which his fear shows is not entirely fulfilled just yet.

[Fiery Phoenix]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

(...)

I think what he means is that Thane doesn't reveal that his inevitable death bothers him UNTIL the final romance scene where he finally confesses it. He seems to be pretty okay with the fact when you first meet him, and doesn't show a shred of doubt until then. So that's the hidden arc?

Though I must say I'm 100% all about your atonement and redemption idea being his story arc, with a caveat-- his story is about atonement and redemption before his imposing death, which his fear shows is not entirely fulfilled just yet.

Fully agreed.

[medicine]

Just If anyone needs non-romanced evidence - get him to crawl through vents during the Suicide Mission. 
Observe his reaction. Then, when in base, listen to his voice. There is a one, two moments, when he drops "professional" and you can hear a fear in his voice, then relief when you hit a... green board, whatever. 

He dind't accepted it yet. I was suprised, I mean I always get Tali or Legion to do it, Tali sounds confident, and Legion is Legion. Then once did it for science - he still acts like himself, but you can tell that stress is eating him alive, and it overrides his stoicism.
You can argue that's because he's afraid he'll screw up, and endanger the whole squad - but I don't think that's what goes through someone's head right before is about to burn in tight corridor.

Modifié par medicine, 09 décembre 2011 - 09:54 .

[outmane]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Hmm....I must say I cannot understand how anyone can expect Thane's story to end with anything else than his death. It is dramatically appropriate. His story was indeed about bringing some more light to the universe before he dies - doesn't he say exactly that? A good end, that would be if he dies after the war is won, knowing he did his part to achieve that and knowing he also did his part to bring a cure for Kepral's to his people, even though it was too late for him to profit from it.

Any cure for Thane, whatever it was, wouldn't have the problem of being a miracle or DEM - you can always justify these things from the published material - but the problem of removing meaning from his story. And as for the question of choice - part of that meaning is that sometimes you do not have a choice. It's not a question of realism but of storytelling. I don't know if curing Thane can be done without cheapening his story. Perhaps it can, but it would have to feature an act of heroic determination on this part, something so impressively affirming his will to live that it outweighs the weight of his story so far.

Thats a nice overview of why it is appropriate for Thane to die, thus completing meaningfully his character arc.
On the other hand ithe Thane fanbase has explained many times why they feel a cure for Thane isnt does not cheapen his story and in fact makes lots of sense in his LI arc.

Both those views underline something important with Thane as a character. That is he has a very different story arc wether you romance him (or feel like a very close friend) or simply pick him up because you need an extra member on your suicide squad. 

Many players accept to help Thane with his personal problems because he is dying. Reallly, who would say no to a dying man asking help for one last good deed ? For those players Thane escaping his forshadowed death cheapens the story in 2 ways. First you lose the heroic redemption arc of the character going down in a blaze of glory and secondly you feel a bit conned about helping him in the first place. Anyway, Thane accepting his death is really important in the 'redemption before death' interpretation.

The players who romanced Thane had access to some extra bits of interaction that really changed the whole thing. Thats the fact that Thane isnt accepting his death anymore. His story arc changes from 'redemption before death' to 'redemption and new beginnings'. He does find love, is changed by those feelings and reveals that hes afraid of death again.  In this new arc, the heroic thing to do cannot be to go down in a blaze of glory cause that would mean giving up. Also most players romancing him take interest in his relationship with his son. It would be pretty hard to admire a father character that gives up on his son and accepts to die. Thats just not the heroic thing to do compared to fighting to stay alive with every means possible.

I dont know how well I manged to explain it but I believe that so far Thane is the one character that is the most changed by being romanced. Which is nice in theory. What player doenst like to have impact on the NPC? But in practice it creates a wide gap bewteen what the players who did not romance him expect as a completion of the 'redemption before death' story arc and what the players who did romance him expect to see him fight for in their 'redemption and new beginnings' story arc.

As I did not read the leacks, i dnt know what Bioware plans to do with the story. Maybe they will find a way to have both options availible (death/cure). Hopefully if they decide to go one way or the other they will do it in a way that wont destroy the story for the rest of the players (the ones not romancing Thane being probably the largest group by far but those romancing him being more emotionnaly involved).

[Asenza]

@outmane,

I think you explained the divide quite well.

Group A: Thane must die!
Group B: You haven't seen what we have!
Group A; No! He must die no matter what! For the drama!
Group B: Oh, so you're unreasonable, in addition to being incredibly loud.

[100k]

Enmystic wrote...

*headdesk*

txgoldrush wrote...
Thane, for example, should ALWAYS die in ME3, LI or not, either killed in action or dies from the illness.

Why?  Why should Thane always die?  Why can't we have a choice? 

I agree that all romances should have different outcomes and fates, but that's not a good reason to kill a character at all. 

It always comes down to "magical cure" or death.  Why can't there be an inbetween or a choice?  If BioWare can make Thane getting better reasonable within the ME universe, then it won't be a copout because it makes sense.  If it's a choice then you can have him die or live if you think it suits him, or whatever will come with having a choice.  Like wildannie mentioned, it has potential to add replayability.

Choice should only extend to the level in which the PC can influence the world around him. Shepard is good, I'll admit it. But he's not a doctor or medical scientist. Hence, allowing Shepard to some how develop-- or even find a cure-- is just too much of a stretch. 

A charismtic soldier killing a race of ancient machines, resolving diplomatic incidents, and saving the galaxy I can swallow. 

A charasmatic soldier developing a cure to the krell equivalent of 20th century cancer (all while saving the galaxy) is just too much of a stretch to me.

Let Thane die. He's a wonderful characer, and his death should resonate in our hearts. 

[wildannie]

100k wrote...

Enmystic wrote...

*headdesk*

txgoldrush wrote...
Thane, for example, should ALWAYS die in ME3, LI or not, either killed in action or dies from the illness.

Why?  Why should Thane always die?  Why can't we have a choice? 

I agree that all romances should have different outcomes and fates, but that's not a good reason to kill a character at all. 

It always comes down to "magical cure" or death.  Why can't there be an inbetween or a choice?  If BioWare can make Thane getting better reasonable within the ME universe, then it won't be a copout because it makes sense.  If it's a choice then you can have him die or live if you think it suits him, or whatever will come with having a choice.  Like wildannie mentioned, it has potential to add replayability.

Choice should only extend to the level in which the PC can influence the world around him. Shepard is good, I'll admit it. But he's not a doctor or medical scientist. Hence, allowing Shepard to some how develop-- or even find a cure-- is just too much of a stretch. 

A charismtic soldier killing a race of ancient machines, resolving diplomatic incidents, and saving the galaxy I can swallow. 

A charasmatic soldier developing a cure to the krell equivalent of 20th century cancer (all while saving the galaxy) is just too much of a stretch to me.

Let Thane die. He's a wonderful characer, and his death should resonate in our hearts. 

  I don't think anyone is wanting or expecting Shepard to develop a cure.  What I hope and expect is for Thane to have sought and received the treatment he has previously refused to extend his life, or that he has located some new treatment developed by real medical experts

Let Thane live.  He's a wonderful character, and deserves better than a cheap death to satisfy a craving for tragedy amongst some of the fanbase.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

It doesn't have to be Shepard that finds the cure, he/she has many resources, numerous contacts and a lot of high up friends. We are not suggesting that Shepard personally administers Thane's magical cure, served in a rainbow mug and complete with a shower of sparkles and glitter.

I would say that saving Thane is a choice that influences the world around him/her. Even from a non-romanced perspective, prolonging the life of the best assassin in the galaxy? I mean, Thane against Kai Leng will make things a lot easier for Shepard. (And I REALLY want a Kai Leng Vs Thane Krios showdown in ME3. But that is besides the point.)

I respect that some people want him to die in ME3, and I am fine with that. In fact, I think it would be good to explore a playthrough where he dies, and see what happens.

But what does nag at me, is that people think that his death should be compulsory. A choice would be able satisfy both options, but it still doesn't seem to satisfy some people. And I don't understand why.

It is the same concept as having either Ashley or Kaidan compulsory dying. Or Mordin dying of old age being compulsory. Or having Legion going rogue and needing to be destroyed. Or Samara being obligated to try and kill a renegade Shepard, making Shepard kill her in the process. Or Miranda having a change of heart and going back to Cerberus to hunt Shepard.

Of course, I recognise that these things won't happen, and won't be made compulsory, it was just to illustrate the concept that making something you want compulsory, isn't fair when, alternatively, it could be the result of a choice.

[Unschuld]

Craving tragedy? No. Wanting a compelling storyline, yes. I realize that's subjective, but that's how I feel.

[wildannie]

Unschuld wrote...

Craving tragedy? No. Wanting a compelling storyline, yes. I realize that's subjective, but that's how I feel.

It's obvious that if Thane survives it's only going to be under certain circumstances, why would you want to impose his death on everyone?  Is that not a little bit selfish?  

There's no reason why I can't have my compelling storyline and you yours.  I have no wish to deny you the chance to see him die.  I would prefer to have him survive in my playthroughs and I can't see why you would wish to deny me this option.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

Unschuld wrote...

Craving tragedy? No. Wanting a compelling storyline, yes. I realize that's subjective, but that's how I feel.

Then you play it that way. *Shrugs*

But there is no reason to wish how you want your playthrough to be, to be imposed on everyone else. Mass Effect is about choices, being able to make your own story, and having your own playthrough.

Everyone wants a compelling storyline, you just need to realise that people have different interpretations of how they want a compelling storyline to be like. Bioware can't cater for everyone, so what is the issue with Thane's fate being left to some sort of choice?

[In_Flux]

Unschuld wrote...

Craving tragedy? No. Wanting a compelling storyline, yes. I realize that's subjective, but that's how I feel.

And that's perfectly fine.

Death sucks in real life - when you lose someone you love, it is not "compelling," it is messy and quite painful .

So, that at least in my game, I would rather have an ending that avoids Thane dying instead of being told that his death is meaningful and wonderful and makes for the best storytelling - I am shallow that way.

[Unschuld]

wildannie wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

Craving tragedy? No. Wanting a compelling storyline, yes. I realize that's subjective, but that's how I feel.

It's obvious that if Thane survives it's only going to be under certain circumstances, why would you want to impose his death on everyone?  Is that not a little bit selfish?  

There's no reason why I can't have my compelling storyline and you yours.  I have no wish to deny you the chance to see him die.  I would prefer to have him survive in my playthroughs and I can't see why you would wish to deny me this option.

Don't get me wrong, I have no NEED to see him die to mesh with my headcannon of how the story arc ends. I just think it's the most natural progression. I am in no way making an active attempt to deny your wishes. Besides, it wouldn't be me denying you the happy ending with the character you desire. That decision lies in the hands of the Bioware writers. 

There's an issue on these forums, and that is a great deal of people vehemently spewing their opinions as absolute fact. I don't do that (unless there is a cannon, absolute fact within the story that's irrefutable), but I apologize if my comments have been digested that way because of our collective desensitization on dealing with those responses. These are only observations and speculations based on my point of view, to be digested and processed.

Like I said before in the other posts, it's just my opinion on the matter. Especially at this point, one man's opinion outside of the company 'circle of trust' won't affect the storyline. If it's any consolation, here's to hoping that you get the ending you desire.

Modifié par Unschuld, 10 décembre 2011 - 02:50 .

[Unschuld]

Goram double post...

Modifié par Unschuld, 10 décembre 2011 - 02:48 .

[HolyAvenger]

I've romanced Thane with a FemShep and honestly I agree that letting him die would be the strongest ending to his story- a true tragic romance. A way out would cheapen the emotional impact of that arc and that romance.

All imo of course.

[Sealy]

Hmm, I half agree with HolyAvenger. I love Thane. Adore him. Do I want him to live? Please oh PTB let him live. Cause I have no need for any other romance Arcs if he does. And my Sheps who romanced him... I doubt they will be able to romance anyone else in a "moving on" type drama. The thought of losing him breaks my heart so yes, I would like him cured cause the angst doesn't do anything for me but make me cry. I cry easy and it will make me miss dialogue and... it will be horrible. Plus the real life LI will laugh at me. We don't want this.

Do I think it would be a cop out? A little. I went into this relationship fully prepared to lose him... it isn't like he sprung his death on me after I was head over heals, he tells you right away that he is dying. Of course it would be totally cruel of Bioware to feed his fans these potential cures and then not allow us their use. I know I hate it in stories when they say someone is dying and then the person is magically cured. But since the data is there then I think they can safetly use it without cheapening his character.

Personally I think they should let us try to save him at least. I mean we often have treatments for diseases that can fall to a total coin toss on whether they work or not. I would like my Shep to be able to say, for Thane to be able to say that they did everything in their power to stay together. That would be the true end to their storyline. Whether he lives or not, they tried. Plus a rememberance story arc if he does die, I mean I romanced him in my SM where he died and my shep watched him carried off by seeker swarms with narry a tear. Needs more emotion bioware, you had so many great crying spots, let my Shep cry if she loses her man.

[txgoldrush]

wildannie wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

This is why the DAII team made Mama Hawke always die, because when given the options, almost every player would "save" her. They avoided a cop out.

A) Is it really?  I didn’t realise that you had such inside knowledge of the development of DA2.  Regardless, it  not being possible to save Leandra  or influence Anders are hardlythe most praised aspects of DA2, they make replay pretty pointless and boring and have been criticized quite a lot on the forums.   

 

txgoldrush wrote…

He is not at peace with his death AS OF ME2!!!! This may NOT be the case at the end of ME3, when his will to live out his final days living, instead of resigning himself to death, pays off. Then he can die "in peace".

It’s going to be pretty hard to sell that one unless he’s a full time squadmate.  He’s going to have been apart from Shepard when she’s on earth and may only be re-joining her for one mission.  I don’t that scenario would bring him any particular ‘peace’ to his loss.

 

txgoldrush wrote…

The ONLY way that Thane surviving is NOT a cop out IS for there to be a cost saving him, as in not curing the Drell race, or leaving unfinished business that could be determental. But even then, Thane would willingly sacrifice himself for his people, making the choice rather unrealistic.

 

Yes, because it’s likely that curing someone would have such a massive impact on the galaxy /sarcasm

C) I’m quite sure Tali (or any of the previous squad) would happily sacrifice themselves for their people, that sentiment is not restricted to those who are sick.  If there are to be forced deaths one could argue that its a cop out if only the sick (Thane) and old (Mordin) are affected… that’s not how war works.

@Asenza Nicely put

A) Thats what the developers approached it as.

And really, Bioware is bad at choice and consquence, barring ME3. in DAO, the plot didn't change, just the ending cards. Bioware games are no where near what The Witcher 2 does. In fact, Bethany/Carver and the deep roads decision is the biggest plot altering Bioware choice ever.

But the Witcher 2 always knew when to NOT offer choices, such as Triss being kidnapped or Foltest being killed. In fact, the most poignant scene in the game, was through Ves making a choice, not Geralt. Bioware fans are not used to other characters making big decisions, as really only the protagonist could make major decisions in Bioware games. in DAII, its different, Anders makes choices, Aveline makes choice, Meredith makes choices, and hell Cullen's choice to back you is huge. It wasn't just Hawke, and that made the story more realistic. The problem with DAII was it was a KOTOR II style rush job.

If they want to criticize Hawke for not being able to save Leandra, why don't they not criticize Geralt not being able to save Triss in Act I?

Believe me, it will sell, as he gets a MAJOR plot mission with Lair of the Shadow Broker like depth. He may even get two. Instead of being a perm squaddie, he will be like Liara in ME2, and Liara sold her role there effectively.

C) Those two are NOT the end of the mandatory deaths, there is one more that is even more major (judging by the draft), who is not sick and old.

[Sealy]

txgoldrush wrote...

C) Those two are NOT the end of the mandatory deaths, there is one more that is even more major (judging by the draft), who is not sick and old.

 Please tell me That is a wording isue and not a spoiler, cause I have been doing a kick ass job avoiding spoilers and hearing that Thanes and Mordins deaths are definitley happening is totally going to ruin my night.

Modifié par Fleshdress, 10 décembre 2011 - 08:47 .

[txgoldrush]

Fleshdress wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

C) Those two are NOT the end of the mandatory deaths, there is one more that is even more major (judging by the draft), who is not sick and old.

 Please tell me That is a wording isue and not a spoiler, cause I have been doing a kick ass job avoiding spoilers and hearing that Thanes and Mordins deaths are definitley happening is totally going to ruin my night.

are they or are they not? wait and see....

[Sealy]

Ahh thank you txgoldrush, Thats the vague pat on the head I was hoping for, once again all is right in my world. *continues chasing butterflies.*

[Enmystic]

100k wrote...

Enmystic wrote...

*headdesk*

txgoldrush wrote...
Thane, for example, should ALWAYS die in ME3, LI or not, either killed in action or dies from the illness.

Why?  Why should Thane always die?  Why can't we have a choice? 

I agree that all romances should have different outcomes and fates, but that's not a good reason to kill a character at all. 

It always comes down to "magical cure" or death.  Why can't there be an inbetween or a choice?  If BioWare can make Thane getting better reasonable within the ME universe, then it won't be a copout because it makes sense.  If it's a choice then you can have him die or live if you think it suits him, or whatever will come with having a choice.  Like wildannie mentioned, it has potential to add replayability.

Choice should only extend to the level in which the PC can influence the world around him. Shepard is good, I'll admit it. But he's not a doctor or medical scientist. Hence, allowing Shepard to some how develop-- or even find a cure-- is just too much of a stretch. 

A charismtic soldier killing a race of ancient machines, resolving diplomatic incidents, and saving the galaxy I can swallow. 

A charasmatic soldier developing a cure to the krell equivalent of 20th century cancer (all while saving the galaxy) is just too much of a stretch to me.

Let Thane die. He's a wonderful characer, and his death should resonate in our hearts. 

Erm, where did I ever suggest that Shepard should develop a cure?  Can Shepard set into motion the events that result in a cure, yeah, but I never said Shepard him/herself should do it.

I stated "as long as it makes sense within the ME universe", and that's what I mean.

Let Thane live.  He's a wonderful character, and if the player truly wants to help him they should be able to do.  His life will resonate in our hearts because he fought so hard and didn't give up.

Tasha...
I respect that some people want him to die in ME3, and I am fine with that. In fact, I think it would be good to explore a playthrough where he dies, and see what happens.

But what does nag at me, is that people think that his death should be compulsory. A choice would be able satisfy both options, but it still doesn't seem to satisfy some people. And I don't understand why.

1000 times this. 

Like outmane stated earlier.  There are people who think Thane's story will be better if he dies.  There are people who think Thane's story will be better if he lives.  It's all subjective because we've all interpreted Thane differently at one point or another.  This is why I would like to see a choice.  It gives power to both sides of the debate and shows how Thane's development changes depending on what route the player takes.  Life and death scenarios are both viable endings to me.  Where does a choice lessen Thane's character?  I don't understand. 

Why do people complain about Mass Effect not honoring the earlier player decisions, but complain more when the game can actually offer a decision over something some people may want to have some control over?  I'm not pointing fingers at anyone here, but seriously, WHAT!?  You want a game about choice to give you less choice..., what? 

It's not that Shepard should control everthing its just the placement of when Shepard doesn't have choice.  Sometimes such moments can be powerful due to the feeling of helplessness.  However, other times it only serves as an annoyance because some players may have wanted some say in that particular decision because of the said characters or parties involved. 

@txgoldrush

A.)  Umm, can't comment, but now you're insulting BioWare on their writing?  Allowing the player to make choices is where I think Mass Effect has it's power.  You sound like you want this removed from their game design.

B.)Really!? How do you know?  Especially since Thane and Liara are different characters and their missions will have different purposes.

C.)  The leak is a leak.  Any data in that leak I don't trust fully because it was not meant to be seen by the public and may not contain all the possible outcomes in ME3.

[wildannie]

txgoldrush wrote...


A) Thats what the developers approached it as.

And really, Bioware is bad at choice and consquence, barring ME3. in DAO, the plot didn't change, just the ending cards. Bioware games are no where near what The Witcher 2 does. In fact, Bethany/Carver and the deep roads decision is the biggest plot altering Bioware choice ever.

But the Witcher 2 always knew when to NOT offer choices, such as Triss being kidnapped or Foltest being killed. In fact, the most poignant scene in the game, was through Ves making a choice, not Geralt. Bioware fans are not used to other characters making big decisions, as really only the protagonist could make major decisions in Bioware games. in DAII, its different, Anders makes choices, Aveline makes choice, Meredith makes choices, and hell Cullen's choice to back you is huge. It wasn't just Hawke, and that made the story more realistic. The problem with DAII was it was a KOTOR II style rush job.

If they want to criticize Hawke for not being able to save Leandra, why don't they not criticize Geralt not being able to save Triss in Act I?

Believe me, it will sell, as he gets a MAJOR plot mission with Lair of the Shadow Broker like depth. He may even get two. Instead of being a perm squaddie, he will be like Liara in ME2, and Liara sold her role there effectively.

C) Those two are NOT the end of the mandatory deaths, there is one more that is even more major (judging by the draft), who is not sick and old.

I'm not fond of looking to CDProjekt and the TW2 for comparisons to Bioware games as they're  too different.  I never completed TW2 because I can't stand being Geralt so that very simple lack of choice of what character I can play kills the game from the start for me.   

There are decisions in DAO that can change the feel of the game (werewolves/dalish, Harromont/Behlin, Zevran, Alistair) and that is what I'm looking for, I don't want the overall plot to change.  The ability to change the outcomes for Leandra / Anders / Bethany / Carver would not have gone a long way toward providing this, and aside from Anders could not have had any baring upon the main story thread at all.  The catalyst for the final confrontation could easily have been caused someone else.

The basic plot of ME3 is set, how we get there and who makes it through should be a matter of choice/product of earlier decisions.

You're putting far to much out there regarding what you *think* is going to happen from reading a leaked script (I have not read it).  It has been stated that it's old, has been changed, and didn't include all interactive choices so it's  probably best that you stop insinuating things about the story when in reality you don't know for sure.

[txgoldrush]

wildannie wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...


A) Thats what the developers approached it as.

And really, Bioware is bad at choice and consquence, barring ME3. in DAO, the plot didn't change, just the ending cards. Bioware games are no where near what The Witcher 2 does. In fact, Bethany/Carver and the deep roads decision is the biggest plot altering Bioware choice ever.

But the Witcher 2 always knew when to NOT offer choices, such as Triss being kidnapped or Foltest being killed. In fact, the most poignant scene in the game, was through Ves making a choice, not Geralt. Bioware fans are not used to other characters making big decisions, as really only the protagonist could make major decisions in Bioware games. in DAII, its different, Anders makes choices, Aveline makes choice, Meredith makes choices, and hell Cullen's choice to back you is huge. It wasn't just Hawke, and that made the story more realistic. The problem with DAII was it was a KOTOR II style rush job.

If they want to criticize Hawke for not being able to save Leandra, why don't they not criticize Geralt not being able to save Triss in Act I?

Believe me, it will sell, as he gets a MAJOR plot mission with Lair of the Shadow Broker like depth. He may even get two. Instead of being a perm squaddie, he will be like Liara in ME2, and Liara sold her role there effectively.

C) Those two are NOT the end of the mandatory deaths, there is one more that is even more major (judging by the draft), who is not sick and old.

I'm not fond of looking to CDProjekt and the TW2 for comparisons to Bioware games as they're  too different.  I never completed TW2 because I can't stand being Geralt so that very simple lack of choice of what character I can play kills the game from the start for me.   

There are decisions in DAO that can change the feel of the game (werewolves/dalish, Harromont/Behlin, Zevran, Alistair) and that is what I'm looking for, I don't want the overall plot to change.  The ability to change the outcomes for Leandra / Anders / Bethany / Carver would not have gone a long way toward providing this, and aside from Anders could not have had any baring upon the main story thread at all.  The catalyst for the final confrontation could easily have been caused someone else.

The basic plot of ME3 is set, how we get there and who makes it through should be a matter of choice/product of earlier decisions.

You're putting far to much out there regarding what you *think* is going to happen from reading a leaked script (I have not read it).  It has been stated that it's old, has been changed, and didn't include all interactive choices so it's  probably best that you stop insinuating things about the story when in reality you don't know for sure.

CD Projeckt spanks Bioware when it comes to real choice and consquence, in fact they spank anyone, even Obsidian. in fact, TW2 is fa rmore replayable than most Bioware games because one choice will give you an entirely different Act II and a somewhat different Act III, with a whole different story emphasis in the political storyline. Lets not forget that simple Act I choice in given Iorveth the sword has BIG consquences in the city of Floatsam.

You want CHOICES but you just do not want CONSQUENCES.

Thane dying as a love interest would be a CONSQUENCE of you romancing him. you knew he was dying.

Also what TW2 has is that the QUALITY of choices, more so than QUANTITY. It has no choice just for the sake of choice, and all TW2 choices have a price, a negative outcome. This fits the theme of choosing the Lesser Evil.

The only way that Thane should even survive ME3 is to pay a PRICE for him, otherwise allowing him to survive is a cop out and will destroy ME3's theme of loss and scarifice. Why have a theme based on this when the player can weasel his way out of it?

Modifié par txgoldrush, 10 décembre 2011 - 09:48 .

[wildannie]

txgoldrush wrote...

CD Projeckt spanks Bioware when it comes to real choice and consquence, in fact they spank anyone, even Obsidian. in fact, TW2 is fa rmore replayable than most Bioware games because one choice will give you an entirely different Act II and a somewhat different Act III, with a whole different story emphasis in the political storyline. Lets not forget that simple Act I choice in given Iorveth the sword has BIG consquences in the city of Floatsam.

You want CHOICES but you just do not want CONSQUENCES.

Thane dying as a love interest would be a CONSQUENCE of you romancing him. you knew he was dying.

Also what TW2 has is that the QUALITY of choices, more so than QUANTITY. It has no choice just for the sake of choice, and all TW2 choices have a price, a negative outcome. This fits the theme of choosing the Lesser Evil.

The only way that Thane should even survive ME3 is to pay a PRICE for him, otherwise allowing him to survive is a cop out and will destroy ME3's theme of loss and scarifice. Why have a theme based on this when the player can weasel his way out of it?

What good are choices when you couldn't care less for the characters? I don't like the witcher (1 or 2)  Iorveth is the only character that I liked, but not enough to play on so whether you think it spanks Bioware or not is a matter of indifference to me.

:blink:How would Thane dying be a consequence of romancing him??? If he dies it's going to be a consequence of him being ill or hit by a rocket or something .

Thane seeking a lung transplant and extending his life would be quite a logical CONSEQUENCE of romancing him.  

Also, who say's my sheps going to weasel out of having to make sacrifices, she's more than happy to sacrifice Tali if it comes to that