167 réponses à ce sujet

[mybudgee]

Thane needs to kick the bucket for one very simple reason; he is a romantic. All true romantics know a young tragic death is always preferable to a long drawn out, banal life. Also, he is a little too badass to be around during the events of ME3

[Sinekein]

Maybe you will decide Thane's survival with a quest. Ambiguous would be good. Like, a TIM-like bad boss hands you the cure if you bomb a city (because, as Rana says, Shep is good at blowing stuff up).
Yeah, a Renegade quest to save Thane would be great.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

mybudgee wrote...

Thane needs to kick the bucket for one very simple reason; he is a romantic. All true romantics know a young tragic death is always preferable to a long drawn out, banal life. Also, he is a little too badass to be around during the events of ME3

I would rather have a 'long, drawn out, banal life' with my boyfriend than one of us dying thankyou.

[Ravensword]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

mybudgee wrote...

Thane needs to kick the bucket for one very simple reason; he is a romantic. All true romantics know a young tragic death is always preferable to a long drawn out, banal life. Also, he is a little too badass to be around during the events of ME3

I would rather have a 'long, drawn out, banal life' with my boyfriend than one of us dying thankyou.

Considering that a "long, draown out, banal life" could mean that Thane's condition has progressed to such a point that he has no quality of life.

[Abispa]

If ANY of Shepard's LIs die in the game, I hope that Bioware allows him/her to have a variety of satisfactory reactions to it. That would encourage fans of various LIs to not immediately hit the reset button and redo a mission to get the most favorable result. I have no illusion that a Miranda fan or Talimancer wouldn't eventually create a "perfect" save anyway, but s/he may at least play on to see how their Shepard is allowed to respond and make sure their favorite LI gets the respect s/he feels the LI deserves.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

Ravensword wrote...

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

mybudgee wrote...

Thane needs to kick the bucket for one very simple reason; he is a romantic. All true romantics know a young tragic death is always preferable to a long drawn out, banal life. Also, he is a little too badass to be around during the events of ME3

I would rather have a 'long, drawn out, banal life' with my boyfriend than one of us dying thankyou.

Considering that a "long, draown out, banal life" could mean that Thane's condition has progressed to such a point that he has no quality of life.

What I meant, is that it it won't be a 'drawn out, banal existence.' He has things to live for, Shepard, and if he isn't romanced, then his son, Kolyat.

[Sinekein]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

mybudgee wrote...

Thane needs to kick the bucket for one very simple reason; he is a romantic. All true romantics know a young tragic death is always preferable to a long drawn out, banal life. Also, he is a little too badass to be around during the events of ME3

I would rather have a 'long, drawn out, banal life' with my boyfriend than one of us dying thankyou.

Considering that a "long, draown out, banal life" could mean that Thane's condition has progressed to such a point that he has no quality of life.

What I meant, is that it it won't be a 'drawn out, banal existence.' He has things to live for, Shepard, and if he isn't romanced, then his son, Kolyat.

This is Mass Effect, not Twilight. Happily Ever After would be disappointing.
But BW said that there will be a definitive golden ending. This means that other endings (not golden) will exist, including possibly Thane's death, Tali's sickness, Liara murdered by Feron who becomes the new SB, Jack's seizure, Miranda's indoctrination, Jacob becoming fat, Garrus murdered by a rogue Blue Sun commander, Ashley being a nun and Kaidan still being dead.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

The impression I got from Twilight that it was depression everywhere. So no, not really comparable here.

I don't think you understand. We are not looking for a happy ending with unicorns, rainbows and leprechauns. I know it is war, and that death is inevitable. I don't mind if Thane's death is an option, but only if it is an OPTION. I will even have a playthrough where Thane dies for the tragic element. But I still want to see his character arc fulfilled as someone who lives on in some way or another.

Although other sad endings will be apparent, Bioware have a pattern of providing choices for their players. And I would hope to see they provide a choice in regards to Thane's fate.

[Sinekein]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

The impression I got from Twilight that it was depression everywhere. So no, not really comparable here.

When you pop out a grown-up girl from nowhere (well, from a womb) just so the second love interest doesn't feel alone, it is happily ever after to me. Emphasis on ever. Anyway.

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

Although other sad endings will be apparent, Bioware have a pattern of providing choices for their players. And I would hope to see they provide a choice in regards to Thane's fate.

So you shouldn't worry, I guess :happy:
Thane seems to be a dev favorite. They won't throw him away just like that.

[kaimanaMM]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

But what does nag at me, is that people think that his death should be compulsory. A choice would be able satisfy both options, but it still doesn't seem to satisfy some people. And I don't understand why.

There's alot of good stuff in this thread (Wildannie, Mei Mei, jeweledleah) but I think this is pretty important and something that goes way way waaaay back to when ME2 had only been out for a few months.  (Yes, 'Thane MUST die for his story to have meaning' has been recycled many, many times.)

Why is having a choice such a bad thing?  You want Thane to die heroically?  Ok, choose that option when it becomes available.  You want Thane to live and run away with you after the Reapers reap?  Ok, choose that option when it becomes available.

Guess what.  Everyone's happy.  Your story doesn't poop on my story and my story doesn't poop on yours.

The only thing that would result from Thane dying every single time is indifference.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

Exactly! ^ *Applauds*

There is no reason why people need to feel that they have to block off an option of Thane not dying, just to make Thane's death exclusive to everyone.

The same concept applies to a lot of different things that Bioware have done with Mass Effect. You don't want a gay romance? Then romance someone of the same sex. Don't want multiplayer? Then don't play it. You want your worst characters to die and not be in ME3? Kill them in the Suicide Mission.

You want Thane to have a tragic, but epic in ME3? Then pick that option if it is an option, and allow those who want him to live to have their preference as well.

[Sinekein]

kaimanaMM wrote...

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

But what does nag at me, is that people think that his death should be compulsory. A choice would be able satisfy both options, but it still doesn't seem to satisfy some people. And I don't understand why.

There's alot of good stuff in this thread (Wildannie, Mei Mei, jeweledleah) but I think this is pretty important and something that goes way way waaaay back to when ME2 had only been out for a few months.  (Yes, 'Thane MUST die for his story to have meaning' has been recycled many, many times.)

Why is having a choice such a bad thing?  You want Thane to die heroically?  Ok, choose that option when it becomes available.  You want Thane to live and run away with you after the Reapers reap?  Ok, choose that option when it becomes available.

Guess what.  Everyone's happy.  Your story doesn't poop on my story and my story doesn't poop on yours.

The only thing that would result from Thane dying every single time is indifference.

Agreed, but I don't like the word "choose". "Work for it" would fit better.
And I hope that all the characters will have more than a single way to die. Not by sadism, but to allow painful mistakes, that you remember. Or Virmire-like choices. This is by far the most intense moment of the series, just because you can't win (except if you hate Ash or Kaidan).
Getting the perfect ending for ME2 was long, but not that hard. I expect some pain to save everybody from the reapers in 3. It includes potentially losing Thane. But with the status of "final episode", we can hope for some amazingly heartbreaking moments.

[txgoldrush]

kaimanaMM wrote...

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

But what does nag at me, is that people think that his death should be compulsory. A choice would be able satisfy both options, but it still doesn't seem to satisfy some people. And I don't understand why.

There's alot of good stuff in this thread (Wildannie, Mei Mei, jeweledleah) but I think this is pretty important and something that goes way way waaaay back to when ME2 had only been out for a few months.  (Yes, 'Thane MUST die for his story to have meaning' has been recycled many, many times.)

Why is having a choice such a bad thing?  You want Thane to die heroically?  Ok, choose that option when it becomes available.  You want Thane to live and run away with you after the Reapers reap?  Ok, choose that option when it becomes available.

Guess what.  Everyone's happy.  Your story doesn't poop on my story and my story doesn't poop on yours.

The only thing that would result from Thane dying every single time is indifference.

Its extremely stupid to try and "make everyone happy"....especially if your story suffers for it. Allowing Thane to get better simply would destroy the theme of his romantic arc.

The best RPG writers do not try to make everyone happy.

Again, fans want choices, they just do not want consquences.

Modifié par txgoldrush, 11 décembre 2011 - 01:30 .

[Sinekein]

txgoldrush wrote...

kaimanaMM wrote...

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

But what does nag at me, is that people think that his death should be compulsory. A choice would be able satisfy both options, but it still doesn't seem to satisfy some people. And I don't understand why.

There's alot of good stuff in this thread (Wildannie, Mei Mei, jeweledleah) but I think this is pretty important and something that goes way way waaaay back to when ME2 had only been out for a few months.  (Yes, 'Thane MUST die for his story to have meaning' has been recycled many, many times.)

Why is having a choice such a bad thing?  You want Thane to die heroically?  Ok, choose that option when it becomes available.  You want Thane to live and run away with you after the Reapers reap?  Ok, choose that option when it becomes available.

Guess what.  Everyone's happy.  Your story doesn't poop on my story and my story doesn't poop on yours.

The only thing that would result from Thane dying every single time is indifference.

Its extremely stupid to try and "make everyone happy"....especially if your story suffers for it. Allowing Thane to get better simply would destroy the theme of his romantic arc.

The best RPG writers do not try to make everyone happy.

Again, fans want choices, they just do not want consquences.

O.K., I totally agree with this. Bioware should have hired George R.R. Martin.

[wildannie]

txgoldrush wrote...

kaimanaMM wrote...

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

But what does nag at me, is that people think that his death should be compulsory. A choice would be able satisfy both options, but it still doesn't seem to satisfy some people. And I don't understand why.

There's alot of good stuff in this thread (Wildannie, Mei Mei, jeweledleah) but I think this is pretty important and something that goes way way waaaay back to when ME2 had only been out for a few months.  (Yes, 'Thane MUST die for his story to have meaning' has been recycled many, many times.)

Why is having a choice such a bad thing?  You want Thane to die heroically?  Ok, choose that option when it becomes available.  You want Thane to live and run away with you after the Reapers reap?  Ok, choose that option when it becomes available.

Guess what.  Everyone's happy.  Your story doesn't poop on my story and my story doesn't poop on yours.

The only thing that would result from Thane dying every single time is indifference.

Its extremely stupid to try and "make everyone happy"....especially if your story suffers for it. Allowing Thane to get better simply would destroy the theme of his romantic arc.

The best RPG writers do not try to make everyone happy.

Again, fans want choices, they just do not want consquences.

No, what's extremely stupid is you banging on about the theme of Thane's romance arc when you clearly don't understand it at all.  I do want choices and consequences.  The consequence of awakening Thane and making him feel worthy of life should logically be him seeking out the treatments that are available and useful to him. 

[100k]

Enmystic wrote...

100k wrote...

Enmystic wrote...

*headdesk*

txgoldrush wrote...
Thane, for example, should ALWAYS die in ME3, LI or not, either killed in action or dies from the illness.

Why?  Why should Thane always die?  Why can't we have a choice? 

I agree that all romances should have different outcomes and fates, but that's not a good reason to kill a character at all. 

It always comes down to "magical cure" or death.  Why can't there be an inbetween or a choice?  If BioWare can make Thane getting better reasonable within the ME universe, then it won't be a copout because it makes sense.  If it's a choice then you can have him die or live if you think it suits him, or whatever will come with having a choice.  Like wildannie mentioned, it has potential to add replayability.

Choice should only extend to the level in which the PC can influence the world around him. Shepard is good, I'll admit it. But he's not a doctor or medical scientist. Hence, allowing Shepard to some how develop-- or even find a cure-- is just too much of a stretch. 

A charismtic soldier killing a race of ancient machines, resolving diplomatic incidents, and saving the galaxy I can swallow. 

A charasmatic soldier developing a cure to the krell equivalent of 20th century cancer (all while saving the galaxy) is just too much of a stretch to me.

Let Thane die. He's a wonderful characer, and his death should resonate in our hearts. 

Erm, where did I ever suggest that Shepard should develop a cure?  Can Shepard set into motion the events that result in a cure, yeah, but I never said Shepard him/herself should do it.

I stated "as long as it makes sense within the ME universe", and that's what I mean.

It was mostly a reply in response to your statment about the player needing a choice, not the details on a cure that Shepard would/could develop.

[wasp777]

I'm reading through the script again, and I guess it's just one of the few bits script that leaked.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                Also, the developers to say that ME3 will have "...over 1000 variables to account for". 

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

txgoldrush wrote...

Its extremely stupid to try and "make everyone happy"....especially if your story suffers for it. Allowing Thane to get better simply would destroy the theme of his romantic arc.

The best RPG writers do not try to make everyone happy.

Again, fans want choices, they just do not want consquences.

Then give the fans choices with consequences. That adds more depth to the game, and it doesn't cheapen Thane's character. We aren't unreasonsable. We recognise that it is very likely that if Thane survives, that there will be consequences attached.

But to be quite frank, I don't care about whether or not you want Thane to die, it is your playthrough, and completely irrelevant to me. What I do care about is making the game only have your opinion of what should happen in regards to Thane: and that is his death. You want his death to compulsory.

Yet, in all these types of threads, I have never seen Thane fans saying 'Thane's cure needs to be compulsory.' It has never even been said in the fan threads. We all think it should be a matter of choice.

Go figure.

[wasp777]

Maybe people who dont like him (specially if men) could be right, but I would like to remember them Thane was deliberately made in this way because the designers'idea was to realize a character with great appeal for women-it is write in the making of. Everyone has their favorites and that's fine.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         He's deep, bright and the most amazing character that Bioware ever created. His background makes him more than just another one dimensional  typical game guy.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   He HAS to come back for ME3 so people can continue their romance with him.....there is no way Bioware would take out sush an amazingly developed and deep character.

Modifié par wasp777, 11 décembre 2011 - 12:32 .

[kaimanaMM]

txgoldrush wrote...

Its extremely stupid to try and "make everyone happy"....especially if your story suffers for it. Allowing Thane to get better simply would destroy the theme of his romantic arc.

The best RPG writers do not try to make everyone happy.

Again, fans want choices, they just do not want consquences.

How does having a choice make the story suffer?  Hasn't that been one of the most touted aspects of Mass Effect? YOUR Shepard.  YOUR story.  YOUR choices. 

So why should your choices trump my choices?  Why should my choices trump yours?

No one, anywhere, in this thread or the few iterations of the Thane thread has said that they want choice without consequence.  Yet, people continue to go on and on about how people who want Thane to live obviously want some kind of magical cure to pop out of thin air.  

People who want Thane to live want a choice.  Death is a consequence, you're right, and a completely justifiable one.  But it should not be the ONLY consequence.  

[Taesuun]

If the "choice" to have him die ends up being harder to do than having him live, or includes stupid decisions from Shepards part, then the story will be less for it.

People are always talking about choices like they were a simple thing, but of course they have to be included in the story. It is (thankfully) never an out of character questionary for the player like "press A for possible cure, B for impossible cure".

In DA I it's hard to roleplay a story where you kill Connor when so many are screaming to go to the mages, just like it's hard not to perform the ritual in the end. It is also similiary hard to get people killed in the SM, or to have to shoot Wrex in Virmire.

So if Thane living or dieing is a player choice, please make it one where the choice to save him is not so obvious. This is actually something that DA II did well with the sibling's fate in the Deeproads.

Same goes for all characters btw.

[Asenza]

@taesuun,

I wouldn't bring up DA2 if you are trying to support your case... that deep roads situation had no set up, was horribly executed and was a pathetic grasp at the gamer's heartstrings, much like the death of the sibling at the beginning of the game.

Modifié par Asenza, 11 décembre 2011 - 08:04 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Agreed, DA2 did a terrible job with the deaths and tragedies of Hawke's family.

[txgoldrush]

wildannie wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

kaimanaMM wrote...

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

But what does nag at me, is that people think that his death should be compulsory. A choice would be able satisfy both options, but it still doesn't seem to satisfy some people. And I don't understand why.

There's alot of good stuff in this thread (Wildannie, Mei Mei, jeweledleah) but I think this is pretty important and something that goes way way waaaay back to when ME2 had only been out for a few months.  (Yes, 'Thane MUST die for his story to have meaning' has been recycled many, many times.)

Why is having a choice such a bad thing?  You want Thane to die heroically?  Ok, choose that option when it becomes available.  You want Thane to live and run away with you after the Reapers reap?  Ok, choose that option when it becomes available.

Guess what.  Everyone's happy.  Your story doesn't poop on my story and my story doesn't poop on yours.

The only thing that would result from Thane dying every single time is indifference.

Its extremely stupid to try and "make everyone happy"....especially if your story suffers for it. Allowing Thane to get better simply would destroy the theme of his romantic arc.

The best RPG writers do not try to make everyone happy.

Again, fans want choices, they just do not want consquences.

No, what's extremely stupid is you banging on about the theme of Thane's romance arc when you clearly don't understand it at all.  I do want choices and consequences.  The consequence of awakening Thane and making him feel worthy of life should logically be him seeking out the treatments that are available and useful to him. 

It is you that doesn't undertstand it.............the theme was not about "I want more time"...its about "using the time left the best I can". At first Thane wasn't, if romanced, he would. End of story.

[txgoldrush]

Asenza wrote...

@taesuun,

I wouldn't bring up DA2 if you are trying to support your case... that deep roads situation had no set up, was horribly executed and was a pathetic grasp at the gamer's heartstrings, much like the death of the sibling at the beginning of the game.

Had no setup? Never mind the scene where Leandra begs you not to take them into the Deep Roads.

And the first sibling death, its more about the aftermath of it, more than the event itself. Many story prologues would kill of an important character...DAII just took a sibling and then a husband.

Nevermind the fact that the second siblings fate would drastically alter their character development.