Radahldo wrote...
The decision to romance Thane, THAT was the choice you were making. Willingly and knowingly. You knew Thane was set up to die by the story, you could have said "I don't want a tragic romance" and romanced someone else. But no, you didn't. Now that the inevitable end is coming, you want to wriggle out of the consequences.
This really isnt necessarily true. Thane was announced as suffering from a terminal illness very late into the promotional cycle. The fandom he built up, from being one of the first announced me2 characters were not attracted to a 'tragic romance' because we did not know of it; when we learned of it, we were unhappy with it. It's an unnecessary aspect of his character, in my opinion.
Are you telling me that you knew you would romance Thane and be a fan of him before seeing him in the game? Well, then you have made your opinion based on incomplete facts, because almost the first thing he says to you is that he's dying from a terminal illness. I maintain that people knew from the first meeting that this was set up to not end with a happily-ever-after. You can't say it was added to him arbitrarily because you have no insight into the way he was planned.
I don't think this is the proper space to elaborate on why dying is not esstential to thanes character arc but basically its not; you dont even need to care whats essential cause you dont romance him. Every character has arcs that satisfy different things and everyone would be unhappy if a disinterested majority, instead of the fans of the character themselves, got to dictate what happens to them. This is the main thing I don't get why is it so hard to say "Well, I don't really care about thane.. his fans want him cured.. i guess they have their reasons, I'll support them"?
It is because I have an opinion about his story which is not influenced by my caring about him or not. Am I not allowed to have one? Am I not allowed to present it here just because I'm not a fan of him? And it's not as if I could influence anything at this point. Writing is done.
And, really what story is cheapened? Death really isnt that poignant. In a game like mass efffect which has:
A.) brought Shep back from death
B.) repeatedly vacillated on the severity of Jokers illness
C.) quarians in general
... and many other things, I do not see how Thane receiving successful treatment cheapens anything: death and debilitating illness in-general has already been cheapened in this game.
To be unbudging on this one issue, presumably to drive home a sense of mortality that has been cheapened in literally every other aspect of the game, is really annoying.
Read my post again. I am not unbudging. I remain open to the possibility that Thane's story can be good with him surviving beyond the end of ME3. But I believe it when I see it.
I do concede that given the level of technology we see in the ME universe, it would be weird not to have a cure. Unrealistic, even. But that's a separate issue. They should not have set up Thane with an incurable disease like that in the first place, in order to keep their worldbuilding consistent.
I would think you would especially understand this cause i've seen your posts on Mirandas fertility. You've written very long posts on this, i've read them all.
Not as long as this one of yours, LOL. Besides, have you read my post you've just answered? I did say that I understand you're angry about the promise of the LotSB information not being followed up on. But the issue is different. We all knew from the very first meeting that Thane was set up to die, while Miranda's infertility was sprung upon us more than half a year after ME2 came out. We had eight months of time to imagine a future where Miranda's genetic gifts would be passed on. A future the writers destroyed when they put the infertility in. My annoyance is mostly about the impression that the writers deliberately wanted to destroy exactly that future to make a pseudo-moral point. Yes, I see the similarity to Thane's story, but again you knew in advance.
You can't tell me that Thane surviving beyond the end of ME3 was ever a reasonable expectation that the writers are destroying in ME3, at least not before LotSB showed up. And since you're talking about the "original fanbase", I guess you are talking about those who romanced Thane before LotSB.
A tragic romance is not what the original fanbase wants.
That may be, but then, why did you romance Thane in the first place? It was very, very clear that exactly that had a high probability of happening. It's like saying I wouldn't want Miranda to care about her sister in ME3. These are core traits of their respective characters and stories. Both *could* be changed, but it would require significant effort to make it convincing. In fact, it would be mind-bogglingly difficult to keep the emotional impact from his earlier story arc intact while making him survive.
The only people I see actively arguing against the cure are people who do not really care that much; and, frankly, with all the spoilers, seeing how a lot of people have reacted very, very negatively to their characters (in however an outdated draft this is) being sidelined ins some capacity has lowered my tolerance for these sorts of arguments. I've read you say several times you do not care what happens to other characters as long as Miranda get a large role. To have a large role and satisfying arc is what everyone wants for their favorite characters; we all know the main plot is not very good so the characters are what everyone is invested in. A cheap, maudlin tragedy is not a satisfying arc or close to what I want for Thane. It's not something I 'knew I was getting into" because, in alll my interactions with the devs on the old forums Thane dying was never something they communicated or was asked for.
You're *seriously* telling me that Thane was *not* set up to die in rather short order in ME2? Really? That's....completely incomprehensible. When I played ME2 first, I even expected him not to return in ME3 because he'd be dead. The way he talks, the mood of the scene where we meet him first, it practically screams here's a man near to the end of his life. You'd have to be blind and deaf not to see it.
There are two angles from which I view this discussion: if you get your cure, I won't complain about it, even if I think it's a cop-out. I am not saying that concerns about the themes of a character's story should necessarily be prioritized over what the fans want. But I maintain that from the way Thane's story was set up, expecting him to survive beyond the end of ME3 was never a reasonable expectation, and I believe that Thane's fans have deceived themselves about this.
A lot of my friends played the romance hoping there would be a cure in me2. Did anyone here ask for infertility?
If there were a large percentage of people are constantly arguing that miranda is defined by infertility and that you should accept cannon and stop whining cause you know what you're getting into.. it would be annoying, right?
There are several key differences. First, the infertility was inserted later, after we had a lot of time imagining Miranda passing on her gifts. Second, there actually *are* Miranda fans who do not want the infertility cured. The argument these people are making are very similar to the one I'm making here. They don't tell me to "stop whining", they tell me that now that the infertility is there, to simply remove it would be a cop-out. Which is quite correct. Since then, we have invented a few scenarios where the infertility can retain the meaning it has for her story arc while leaving the possibility open that it can be cured or circumvented in an epilogue. The most interesting of those is Miranda using the same technology that created her to circumvent the infertility, thus symbolizing that she has made her peace with her origins.
I'm sure you cab seeing the possible parallel here. The problem with Thane is that his story with its themes of atonement and death is set up to end with his death. I think you're in denial about that - the only way I'd be convinced of the opposite is if a writer came out and told me I was wrong. So while Thane surviving isn't impossible, it's considerably more difficult for his story in ME2 to retain its impact that way. I challenge you to present such a scenario.
I was reading the reactions of various character threads to spoilers and it was super negative. So we cannot pretend that we prioritize the main plot or necessarily accept the illogical decisions of writers. I've looked into other threads and places on internet where people were having huge tantrums, canceling pre-orders because they are dissatisfied with the story. We're past the point of "just respect the writers decisions" cause really we don't, lets be real.
I am not telling you that. Complain as loud as you want, I won't call you out on it. I'm just posting an opposite opinion.
Sadly, I think its really obvious even without spoilers how Thane will be handled in ME3. We put a lot of effort into getting a Cure Thane message to writers. They have giant poster we made in their office. It isn't fair that we were ignored because of very thin counter-arguments from people who have now thrown loud tantrums over not getting what they want in ME3.
This is the first time I have posted about this topic on BSN. At a time when doing so won't change anything any more. I have maintained a reasonable tone and have not been dogmatic about it, and I think my arguments have weight.
If the writers have ignored your promotional efforts - which is still in the air - then I'm sure it's not arbitrarily. In fact, if you've been as persistent as you claim, I'm sure at least some have thought of a way out for Thane. But they may not have found one that doesn't look like a cop-out. Or they may. FWIW, I do wish you luck, I'm just not convinced of the possible result before I see it.
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