129 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

knightnblu wrote...

Then I only have a couple of questions for you. First, how long do we wait and what are the likely consequences of waiting? Second, do you believe that it is possible to wait too long?

1) Unknown.  We don't know how fast the Reapers are advancing in the galaxy, what clues we may get on how to stop them, nor how effective methods of slowing them may be.  Need more information.  But the consequences are the same as attacking them outright:  galactic extinction.  I just happen to think the risks are a bit lower this way.

2) Absolutely.  Attack too soon we get stomped.  Attack too late we won't have the strength to follow through.

[Leather_Rebel90]

I disagree entirely with the OP, I think BioWare should show more of the human side of Shepard, and, if I were Shepard, I would be getting pretty tired by now. Make him a tad more pessimistic, he's always a 'yes, i can!' type of guy and for a while that's good, but after a certain amount of time passes it starts to become very unrealistic, everyone has a breaking point; everyone. They need to demonstrate this a bit more in ME3.

[knightnblu]

Leather_Rebel90 wrote...

I disagree entirely with the OP, I think BioWare should show more of the human side of Shepard, and, if I were Shepard, I would be getting pretty tired by now. Make him a tad more pessimistic, he's always a 'yes, i can!' type of guy and for a while that's good, but after a certain amount of time passes it starts to become very unrealistic, everyone has a breaking point; everyone. They need to demonstrate this a bit more in ME3.

Many people voice the exact same opinion and for the most part, they are right. However, there are situations where they are way wrong. Take Apollo 13 for example. Three astronauts in a critically damaged ship between the Earth and the moon and apparently no way home. It was cold, dark, and cramped and there was no way that these men knew that they were ever going to get home or see their loved ones again. When Ron Howard did the film, everybody made essentially the same comment that you did. But the scene when the astronauts had a go at one another never happened. Each man was stable, solid, and calm.
 
Whether its the Navy SEALS, SAS, or GSG9 they all proceed in a like manner: screen out those who can't hack it. The N7 program proceeds down the same path. It screens out those who do not possess the mental attributes to make them very good at what they do. Pessimism has no place in such organizations because "can't do" doesn't accomplish missions and will end up getting you and your team killed.
 
Imagine if NASA or those astronauts aboard Apollo 13 had lost it because as you say, nobody has nerves of steel? Nobody is "on" all of the time? The likely result of such thinking would have ended with America losing 3 astronauts in space. Had that thinking crept into Shepard's thinking in ME2, do you really think that he could have taken down the Collector base? I am not saying that such people are made of steel. Shepard even has a moment of self doubt when he tells Liara that he has no idea how he's going to stop the Collectors, but he overcomes those doubts and focuses on the mission and succeeds.
 
Never underestimate the mind. Where the mind leads, the body will follow. If one examines the greatest accomplishments of humanity you will find an incredible will coupled with a "can do" attitude. To illustrate this I will relate one more story.
 
There was a college math final and the Professor told his class that if anyone finished the exam early he included an unsolvable math problem on the final page of the exam for their entertainment. Ten minutes later, a late arriving student arrived and began taking the test. He had never heard the Professors instructions regarding the final problem and so did not know that the final problem was "unsolvable." Yet, because of that he ended up actually solving the "unsolvable" problem.
 
Man is only limited by himself. A man's mental state of mind, his attitude, and his expectations are obstacles to be overcome, not limiting factors. Some men, like Shepard, know how to win because they have already won that most important battle: the inner struggle that holds you back and tells you that something cannot be done.
 
That is what gives Shepard the ability to overcome the impossible and what gives everyone the ability to excel against all odds. Couple that drive with the spirit of the warrior and any foe can be beaten. That is our contribution to the Reaper war in ME3, the human ability to find a way.

[Iakus]

Well, there is a small difference.  While there are people who perform well under extreme pressure, we need to keep in mind that Shep's been under the gun, quite literally, for years.  Even if we discount the time Shep spent dead, that's still months, at least.  During that time, Shepard has been in combat with various forces, preparing for combat with same, and trying to figure out how to stop galactic extinction.  All with limited/untrustworthy support structures.  

Take your Apollo 13 example.  The crew did an absolutely amazing job under extreme conditions.  Over several days.  But what if they had to be that on the ball for months or more?  What if the response tfrom NASA official was "Ah yes, 'problems' We have dismissed that claim" and they had to go it alone?  Even the strongest minds might at least crack under that kind of pressure.

Now in saying this, I'm not saying we should have Shep curled up in a fetal position bawling his eyes out.  Far from it.  But some acknowledgement that Shepard is feeling the pressure would not be amiss.  The talk with Liara in LOTSB is a great example.  So is "the slump" in ME1.  the fate of the galaxy is on Shepard's shoulders.  That must be a heavy burden indeed.

[MakeMineMako]

My Shep character will be just like he was in the first two games: A larger than life hero.

[knightnblu]

iakus -
 
Will he be frustrated with a backwards Council that has it's collective heads stuffed so far up their backsides that they haven't seen daylight in years? Sure. Will he also be frustrated with a like minded Alliance? Absolutely. But whine about how Ashley treated him on Horizon or ****** and moan about his unappreciated status? Absolutely not. Shepard won't shed any tears over being used as the sacrificial goat because that's his job. He is a warrior pure and simple. He might be a little pissed about it, but he will do his job.
 
He may not like the cards he was dealt, but he will play them nevertheless and look for a way to use them for his advantage. Going back to the Apollo 13 incident, had the astronauts been in space for months living under those conditions it would not have changed them. Their response was the result of character, training, and psychological evaluations under stress. The whole astronaut corps was that way in the 60's and 70's.
 
I will grant you that Shepard is not an "average" Alliance soldier. He is not even a great Alliance soldier. Put simply, he is the best of the best like the Apollo 13 astronauts were and the SAS and SEAL teams are. He had to go through the wringer in order to achieve N7 status. He is an elite operative from the get go with a winning mindset and a positive attitude and it is his mental status that makes him so dangerous to the enemy. For elite soldiers, it is imperative that both the mind and the body be honed to a razors edge. It takes momma and daddy to craft people; the N7 program crafts the deadliest of weapons and that is precisely what Shepard is.
 
Prior to Horizon, I would have recommended Ashley Williams for the N7 program. I would still be inclined following a favorable psych evaluation after her melt down on Horizon. Her skills are exemplary, her attitude is favorable, but I now have questions about her self discipline. She lost it, Shepard didn't.
 
But you appear indecisive in your evaluations my friend. Indecision on the battlefield can get you and your men killed. Even when surprised, you need to do something. Hopefully, it will be the right thing. Caution only applies to the next step. Initially, action rules the day in the first encounter. Commanders who dither are not a good thing. They make mistakes and you end up with a Gallipoli or a charge of the light brigade because flag officers don't want to end up looking bad. But it is the poor S.O.B.s down in the trenches who pay for their indecision in blood.
 
With ME3, all of the races are all in and fighting for their very survival whether they know it or not. No species can win this war on its own, not even us. We have to unite and we have to fight. We have to find or make weaknesses in the enemy and we have to set our wills so that only death can break it.
 
If the Reaper indoctrination signal potentiates as the Reapers combine, then we have days or weeks before it will be too late for the worlds under siege. Recall that Rana Thanoptis said that Sovereign's signal was too strong and that those near it felt a tingling in their skull. Millions die every day and God help those who are unfortunate enough to be captured. We have already seen how they die in ME2 and it isn't pretty. For Shepard to spend his time whining about his life instead of angling in on the Reapers is an insult to those we have lost and are losing while he wastes his time crying in his beer. Anger on the other hand is helpful as long as it is controlled by the will. Anger fuels forward motion and I would imagine that Shepard has a boat load of that in the basement.

[Iakus]

Ah but Shepard will have to be more than a warrior to take on the Reapers.  Shepard should be more than annooyed.  Millions, perhaps billions will die due to inactipon on the part fo the Council and the Alliance.  As Hackett himself said "We're just not ready"  Now it's up to Shepard to save what's left.  He'll do it, of course.  He may be willing to sacrifice himself, even other soldiers, for this cause.  But that has to take its toll on even the strongest mind.  That it didn't have to be this way.  Shepard isn't facing his own death, or that of his friends or family or even nation.  He's facing the death of everything.  And is going against an opponent fully willing and able to deliver that doom.  What Shepard is up against now is beyond anything that we can compare in the "real world" The closest parallels are only found in epic fantasy or space opera.

Shepard is the best of the best.  Even prior to ME1, Shep's gone through seriously traumatic events and emerged the stronger for it.  Despite my jibes, Shepard is not, or should not be, the relentles undead cyborg he appeared to be in much of ME2.  Shepard is not fighting to destroy, but to preserve.

Humanity, and the galaxy in general are operating at an extreme disadvantage against the Reapers, even with the relays still open.  The situation's not hopeless, thanks largely to that detail.  But to win, Shepard will have to be more than a wolf.  He'll have to be a fox, too.  A warrior, a chessmaster.  He must simultaneously defeat the Reapers and ensure that there's a people left in the galaxy to save.

I'd comment more on Ash, but we've done enough of that on other threads.  Besides, I've read some of the spoilers.  That chapter's not done yet.  Any more will have to be done via PMs, if you're interested 


If I'm being indecisive, it's because I honestly don't know what can stop the reapers.  Shepard must, to put it bluntly, pitch a perfect game.  He's outgunned and outclassed by his enemy.  Humanity may have spent thousands of years perfecting war, but the Reapers have spent millions fighting who knows what kinds of enemies.  They have weapons that can take out cruisers with little effort.  They have kinetic barriers that can hold off an entire fleet's fire, and armor that can brush aside a head-on collision with a capital ship.  The Reapers are highly trained special forces.  The Alliance are cavemen with rocks and spears.

You mention the Light Brigade.  Here's another one:  Picket's Charge.  Even higher casualty rate, as I recall.  And a decisive, if disasterous, move.  

Decisive is fine as long as it's the right decision.  That's what Shepard needs to do.  Walk a minefield where a wrong step, or a right step at the wrong time, will doom a galaxy.  Shepard shouldn't play with the cards he was dealt, he needs to throw them out and get a new hand.  A new deck, even!  Heck, the only reason the galaxy stands a chance now is the Protheans cheated and slipped an ace to Shepard via sabotaging the Keepers.

To deal with the Reapers, the galaxy needs a new playbook.  New weapons, new strategies.  Alliances must be made with ancient enemies.  More needs to be known about their enemy.  THis is all stuff that should have happened over th elast 2-3 years.  Now Shepard needs to catch up as fast as possible if anyone is to live.

Modifié par iakus, 20 décembre 2011 - 09:15 .

[knightnblu]

iakus wrote "And is going against an opponent fully willing and able to deliver that doom. What Shepard is up against now is beyond anything that we can compare in the "real world" The closest parallels are only found in epic fantasy or space opera."
 
I think that many are familiar with the concept of predation. It's just that we usually don't consider ourselves to be the prey. For two and one half years the galaxy knew this was coming and did absolutely nothing. Now, it is time to pay for their apathy and millions will die because of it. As you say, Admiral Hackett said that the Alliance wasn't ready to fight the Reapers. The end result of that was the destruction of the Alliance fleet and the taking of Earth by force and according to the Big Ben sniper, one week later seven million are dead and God knows how many are captured/indoctrinated.
 
The greatest threat of the Reapers is not their advanced technology, their kinetic barriers, or their weaponry. It is their indoctrination technology. All they have to do is to sit over a city and let time do their work for them. Once the civilian population is indoctrinated they send them out to locate pockets of humans and infiltrate them in order to send back intel on who they are, where they are, and what they are planning, prior to being taken out by the Reapers.
 
Worse, nanobots can be released to accelerate this process and to create human/reaper hybrids like what Paul Grayson became. Worse, it is entirely possible that Cerberus was compromised from the get go with TIM being a Cerberus thrall and not even realizing it. Perhaps his machinations were the result partly of his own will and partly due to the subliminal influence of the Reapers. If so, the Reapers know everything about the Alliance, Earth, and humanity's defenses and codes because that knowledge was something within TIM's grasp.
 
We know that the Reapers have been studying us for hundreds of years. When Grayson took over the Turian military vessel, the Reapers flew it as if they had designed it. They then created a virus on the fly that compromised the Grissom Center's comms and prevented anyone from warning them about what was headed their way and from calling for help if they should realize what was happening there so that they could obtain data on the ascension project.
 
You are probably wondering if that were true, it would prove that TIM were not compromised, but you would be mistaken. While it is true that TIM was aware of the Ascension Project and its protocols, taking that knowledge from him would have alerted him to his indoctrinated status. While the Reapers could then control him, it would become obvious to those who knew him that something was wrong and their cover would eventually be blown. Better to use that ace when they are actively reaping and the ruse could be continued against the backdrop of panic explaining TIM's somewhat odd behavior as a stress reaction.
 
I go through this long dissertation in order to illustrate this one point: there is no point to an intense research and development cycle in order to acquire new weaponry, ship technology, infantry weapons, etc., because the Reapers already know our weaknesses, political divisions, cultures, and technological abilities. That means that they know where the R&D labs are, the shipyards, the military headquarters, tactical and strategic doctrine, all of it and I will bet you that they have been assigned high priority as targets. Which means that Noveria has giant target painted on its back. All of this boils down to two probabilities: First, there really is no point in expending a great deal of effort in the development of new technologies because we will not be given the time to do so. This means that we are going to have to fight and win with what we have. Second, if we cannot use what we have to win, there will be some skunk works tech that some long forgotten civilization developed (like the gun that created the crater on Klendagon and killed a Reaper) and has been long waiting a species to find it and use it to destroy the Reaper threat. Or in other words, another hail Mary from another civilization that never got to bat similar to the Protheans.
 
In fact, that may have been what the Shadow Broker was referencing about the Protheans having another ace up their sleeve providing a clue as to where to find this thing at the conclusion to LotSB. In any event, the galaxy will have to fight in order to hold the Reapers at bay while Shepard goes on a hunt to find it across the galaxy. That would also explain Liara's presence in the trailers as she was an expert on the Protheans and had knowledge of the previous extinction cycles.
 
Regarding indecision, Picket's Charge was a disaster for the South. Lee had been blinded by the absence of Stuart, crippled tactically by the loss of Jackson, and had even been defied by one of his commanders who refused to take Little Round Top when there was nobody up there. One of his Generals even suggested that the South leave the field and march on Washington D.C. forcing the North to abandon its positions in order to pursue so that Lee could meet the Union on better ground. That was the strategy that Scipio used to draw out Hannibal and defeat him at the battle of Zama in 202 BCE. Lee refused and the result is well known.
 
My point was a simple one: when you find yourself staring at death in the face, don't just stand there waiting to die. Do something. Move, fire, roll right, do anything, but don't just stand there and make it easy for death to take you. Sometimes you will do the wrong thing and you will die anyway, but mostly you will find that your sudden action has surprised your attacker and while he is contemplating your reaction to his threat, you kill him. That was what I meant by indecision.
 
There is an art to war. From the strategy of the Japanese to the wisdom of Sun Tzu to the brutality of the Viking berserkers, the warrior encompasses it all. He is not merely the product of the dragon's teeth planted in the ground only to spring up and kill everything in his path. He is vastly more complex than that. If one studies the great captains of history you will find creativity, cunning, intelligence, and an intense understanding of human psychology. That is and should be Shepard's mindset and his sole focus should be the destruction of his enemy by whatever means necessary.
 
This is Armageddon. The end of all things. It is Ragnarok and Gotterdammerung all rolled up into one. Only there are no mythical warriors coming to our aid. Odin will not ride Sleipnir into battle brandishing Gungnir to do battle with the Reapers for us and that is why we will need the heart and mind of the warrior combined in Shepard if we are to have a chance.
 
Regarding Shepard's behavior in ME2, I disagree. His "I had reach, but she had flexibility" talk with Garrus, his discussions with Jack, his revelation of his feelings to Liara, and his speeches to the troops all showed a man possessed of deep emotion and commitment to an ideal. If anything, I think that Shepard was more wooden in ME1.

[someone else]

Quite a discussion [wishes for an applause smiley]  I would add one observation - courtesy of Harby & Co. - there is something that sets Shepard apart - the Reapers recognize this and are literally after his essence - his DNA - to perfect their human reaper - without "Shepard" humanity is incomplete.

Shepard is more than a warrior - he is the race Avatar - the Ubermensch - and he brings that to bear in the fight - we all hope that BW will not trapdoor us all with a Win button (cf the lenghth Deus ex Machina thread and similar.)  He has already once defeated death, yet he remains a man (nods to FemSheps, but for mythic purposes the archetype must embody the masculine) - the parallels are obvious. 

My point is his"mindset" is not simply the product of rigorous conditioning, training and battlehardening - it is characterological, innate - his unbendable will to victory, his indominitability, (sorry for all the neologisms), his unfaltering dedication to the quest, his charismatic leadership and the animal magnetism of his personality all  account for and surpass his mental outlook.  In as few words as I can manage, Shepard is the Hero, in the fullest and most classical meaning of the word.

[Random citizen]

Shepard's mindset in ME3: Determined.

[Had-to-say]

www.youtube.com/watch I like that speech it sounds real manly. SMH

[Iakus]

I would argue that the galaxy did not know they were coming thanks to the apathy of the Council and Alliance.  The only groups that seemed to acknowledge that were Cerberus, the geth, possibly the quarians, and Anderson/whatever allies Shep has left in the Alliance.  Three years and the best we can hope for is mass-produced thanix cannons?  If the galaxy is going to have a hope for survival, better cram for this final!

Indoctrination is an insidious weapon to be sure, but I think it's just one weapon amongst many.  We know it can be detected.  VIgil could do so.  Rana Thanoptis was actively studying the effects and said indoctrination waves were detectable (I think, gonna have to check on that when I start a new run in a few weeks) Countering and reversing the effects is just one thing that needs to be studied pronto.

Shepard does need to act, to do something.  But when up against an enemy as powerful as the Reapers, there are no second chances to fall back and recover.  Shepard has to be right, every time, or at best, whole planets will burn. At the moment, the Reapers have the stronger hand.  Shepard needs a new hand, or play a new game.

The Reapers may already know our weaknesses, but we don't know theirs.  We don't even know the full extent of their strength.  We don't know how many ships they have, for instance.  What new types of husks they are capable of making.  Remember, al the advanced technology the Council will be fighting with?  The Reapers developed that!  Millions of years ago!  Who knows what else they can do that they've kept to themselves?  they've developed since then?  If Shep goes in swinging without knowing his enemy, he's going in blind.  Heck with all the cybernetics Cerberus put in Shepard, can he even know himself?

So, yes, I believe that the goal will be for Shepard to keep the galaxy alive until either A) a new weapon is developed or and old weapon ois found.  The Council effectively urinated away any chance of the galaxy meeting the Reapers on anything like equal terms.

Modifié par iakus, 22 décembre 2011 - 02:42 .

[SnakeStrike8]

I think (hope) that Shepard-Commander is being slightly indoctrinated. Recall that one of the symptoms of indoctrination, according to the codex entries, include hallucinations and hearing things. Recall also that the intro features a mongrel hiding in a vent who 'vanishes' as soon as Shepard-Commander looks away.
Seems to me that all that time Shepard-Commander spent hunting down those indoctrinator devices and brawling with Reaper agents in getting to him. That makes me hope that we'll get a 'into the mind' scene akin to the Scarecrow segments from Arkham Asylum in which Shepard-Commander struggles against the indoctrination that's growing in his mind. It gives Bioware the opportunity to show us that Shepard-Commander isn't unscathed after years of fighting, and at the same time gives us, the players, an enemy to fight and prove to ourselves that Shepard-Commander is still a hero who bangs his head against insurmountable odds and keeps doing it until he wins.

[Major_Kong]

The OP brings up an interesting point. Unless Shepard is a spacer he doesn't have any family and few friends. It wouldn't be difficult for someone like that to assume the role of the Pale Rider. It really is up to the player to decide what makes their Shepard tick.

[Iakus]

SnakeStrike8 wrote...

I think (hope) that Shepard-Commander is being slightly indoctrinated. Recall that one of the symptoms of indoctrination, according to the codex entries, include hallucinations and hearing things. Recall also that the intro features a mongrel hiding in a vent who 'vanishes' as soon as Shepard-Commander looks away.
Seems to me that all that time Shepard-Commander spent hunting down those indoctrinator devices and brawling with Reaper agents in getting to him. That makes me hope that we'll get a 'into the mind' scene akin to the Scarecrow segments from Arkham Asylum in which Shepard-Commander struggles against the indoctrination that's growing in his mind. It gives Bioware the opportunity to show us that Shepard-Commander isn't unscathed after years of fighting, and at the same time gives us, the players, an enemy to fight and prove to ourselves that Shepard-Commander is still a hero who bangs his head against insurmountable odds and keeps doing it until he wins.

That would be a very cool twist if implemented.  Something that shows that all the ...stuff...Shepard's gone through in the last few years are taking their toll.  That Shepard is more than a relentless undead cyborg.

Sadly, I kinda doubt that will happen though.  I mean, relentless undead cyborg and all 

[knightnblu]

You know, I really don't think that Reaper technology is as advanced as we fear it to be. Sovereign said that they were the pinnacle of evolution. Once that height was reached, they basically stopped evolving and that means that they stopped developing, researching, or doing anything else besides reaping. The drive for any society is the drive to advance, to discover, to create. But what happens when you arrive at where you wanted to go?
 
For some, they choose a new destination or goal, but the Reapers rested upon their laurels. They withdrew to dark space and hibernate there until it is time to begin a new reaping cycle. I see each reaping as essentially repair and maintenance cycles that are either designed to maintain status quo or to pass along material to somebody else or both. The victim races develop along pre-defined technological paths that form a "stock" of compatible technology that can be used to repair and maintain the fleet. Compatible organics are converted into new members of the Reaper fleet and the rest are discarded as chaff at the end of a reaping cycle and the galaxy is scrubbed in preparation for the next cycle.
 
Therefore, one can extrapolate two theories from this information. The first is that the Reapers are not millions of years more technologically advanced, but only a couple hundred years or so. If they were truly millions of years more advanced, then our technological progress wouldn't matter to them and there would be no way to win. We also wouldn't be very useful to them because our technology would be archaic and therefore useless to them which means that there would be no need for reaping the galaxy unless it were for raw materials, but if you have no manufacturing capability then what's the point?
 
Second, the fact that the Reapers need to procreate means that they have lost battles before and need to replace their numbers in order to maintain dominance. This was the reason for the Collectors, the Collector base, and the genetic experimentation on the various races. This is where the true technological mastery of the Reapers resides, not in physical or computer science, but in biology. If you can modify the genetic code of a species in order to bend it to your will thereby bypassing evolution you have achieved the power of a God and I believe that this is the source of the Reaper's arrogance.
 
What all of this means is that the Reapers can bleed. This is important because something that can bleed can also be killed. In short, it means that the Reapers are not invulnerable. In the past, the Reapers had the advantage of surprise, an immediate capture of the central government thereby decapitating both the civilian and military leadership of the peoples of the galaxy, and yielding control of the relays. Those are huge advantages and their importance should not be underestimated. An attack that achieves such goals would be devastating. That did not occur this time and that means that the Reapers are operating in a new combat environment in which they have little or no experience.
 
This means that they can be beaten. The Reapers have suffered lost battles in the past and are prepared to do so in the future. With the introduction of the Thanix cannon, we now have access to front line Reaper weaponry. That is a huge advantage and one that I believe that many people do not fully recognize. It will take time to retrofit that weapon into the galactic fleets and to upgrade armor and barriers. But that is likely the only time that we have. If we were to wait beyond that period, it would not matter because indoctrination would reach critical mass and we would be finished. The connection between the indoctrinated and the Reapers is a two way street with the Reaper agents sensing the thoughts of the Reapers in order to receive commands and the Reapers getting intel on everything that the agent hears, sees, or experiences. This likely means that there is some sort of nanotechnology that is deployed with the indoctrinations signal and that the nanites replicate when they find an organic host.
 
This would likely explain the increased consumption of food by indoctrinated personnel. This also means that those who are indoctrinated are fitted with send/receive equipment during the indoctrination process indicating that the nanites leech material from the body in order to begin the construction process. The leeching process and exorbitant use of nutritional energy is the likely explanation for the subject to remain asleep for so long. If these assumptions are true, then a scan could pick up the presence of the nanites within the host body and the signal could potentially be jammed or corrupted given enough time to research and study it.
 
This means that Shepard has to shoot, move, and communicate simultaneously because he is up against the clock. There will be no place for diplomats in this war because the Reapers will not yield and even if they did, I would pursue and destroy them to the very last. This is a fight from which only one combatant is going to walk away from. That kind of a fight requires a commitment that only a warrior can muster. Its going to be dirty, bloody, vicious, and brief. In short, its a knife fight.
 
iakus - I have no doubt that what Shepard has done has taken a toll on him. Particularly the events of Arrival. Nobody can go through something like that without it having an effect. To a limited extent we saw the effects of combat on Lt. Zabileta (sp?) and the toll that it took on him, but you had to have the spacer background to get him. The lieutenant was a raging alcoholic and living on the streets of the Citadel when Shepard runs into him. However, this doesn't mean that Shepard will walk the same path.
 
If Shepard maintains people around him that he can talk to and who understands what he had to do and why he had to do it, then he should be ok. One method of dealing with the stress of combat is dark humor. For example, a guy commits suicide by jumping off a fifteen story tall water tower. As the police look over the corpse, one detective asks another what he thinks. The detective gets a thoughtful expression on his face and intones, "Oh, I'd give him about a 9.5." The crowd never understood why three homicide detectives were standing over a fresh corpse laughing, but that's the job.
 
Firefighters, EMS, and combat soldiers all have the same need to blow off steam and humor is one of the things that fits the bill nicely for stress relief. It's just that the subject matter for the humor can be a bit...dark. But when you deal with death and dying every day for a living, you kind of get used to it. If you didn't, you would go out of your mind. It's definitely quirky, but that's what human beings do.

[Iakus]

One can also extrapolate that the Reapers with cull the races before they get anywhere near a serious threat, from a technological perspective.

Again I refer you to Sovereign, which had most of the FIfth Fleet pouring fire at him while he was using Saren as a sock puppet. And he was just taking it, firing off potshots and destroying cruisers seemingly at will. To say nothing of their understanding of the relay network, which was never a major area of study by the Council, even being reluctant to activate dormant relays. Reaper understand all this technology in ways no other race ever has. They made it. They perfected it. It's literally a part of them.

Of course they Reapers can be defeated. It would be a pretty pointless game otherwise. But the Reapers have the advantage in both power and knowledge. They know all about what the races in the galaxy can and cannot do. They know the strengths and limitations of the technology in use in ways no one else can. They know their enemy, and know themselves.

So far all we know about the Reapers is "machines can be broken" We still don't know the full extent of their capabilities. We know only one potential weak point. We just know that it takes an enormous effort and sacrifice on our part just to bring down one distracted Reaper. THey're up against the clock, yes. Shepard needs to buy time.

re: mental strain. I have played the spacer background before. Though I prefer colonist. Meeting with Talitha, a suicidal fellow survivor of Mindoir and recently freed from batarian captivity was heartbreaking. Shep's asked to talk her down specifically because he knows something of what she's going through. Shepard has the opportunity to share his experiences with her make her face her past and show it can be overcome.

It's not the cracking under the weight that's important, it's acknowledging that a burden is being carried. That that path is still there, even if Shepard has thus far managed to avoid it.

Part of why I call Shepard in ME2 a "relentless cyborg zombie" is, before Lair of the Shadow Broker, Shepard doesn't talk to people who would understand. THe closest to "blowing off steam" is the drink he can share with Chakwas, which she even reinforces how Shepard seems unphased even by frakking DYING and losing two years.

[knightnblu]

iakus wrote "One can also extrapolate that the Reapers with cull the races before they get anywhere near a serious threat, from a technological perspective."
 
Of course they would, but the Protheans put a crimp in their battle plan. Sovereign signaled the Keepers to admit the Reaper fleet so that the reaping cycle could begin. While we don't really know how long ago Sovereign sent the signal, we can assume that it was in the neighborhood of 300 to 400 years ago or possibly longer.
 
I can imagine Sovereign hitting the button and waiting for the Reaper fleet to arrive. Imagine his surprise when nothing happened. Was it a problem with the Citadel? Was it a problem on the dark space end? Did his remote have fresh batteries? He would have to begin troubleshooting the problem and once he found out what the error was, he could begin to fix it. All of that takes time.
 
The signal may have been sent even earlier because the Rachni Queen believed that her people were forced into war with the Council races by the Reapers. It would have been a successful campaign had the Salarians not uplifted the Krogans. But what were the odds that they could do so again? Sovereign knew that the Geth had been at war with their creators and some of them were willing to follow the Reapers willingly. An AI platform is much more predictable than an organic platform and less likely to be tampered with and so Sovereign recruited them and launched an attack on the Citadel with Saren and a strike team slipping in the back door via Ilos.
 
What Sovereign couldn't count on was Shepard, who managed to sink that plan all by himself and took out a Reaper along the way. That and the destruction of the Alpha relay prevented the Reapers from beginning their cycle for an additional two and one half years. So now the time frame goes from about 300 to 2,000 years. If the Reapers time their cycles to begin at a certain point in technological advancement, they have missed the target by 2,000 years worst case or 300 to 400 years best case. I'm inclined to believe that it is the worst case scenario for the Reapers because of the claim of the Rachni Queen.
 
If correct, that means that we are about 2K years more advanced than the Reapers wanted us to be. Add in the loss of the element of surprise, the loss of control of the relay systems, three serial losses in attempting to start the reaping cycle, and the fact that they had to launch a traditional campaign through Batarian space and you begin to see the comedy of errors that they have been dealing with in their military operations.
 
Yeah, they have a hardware advantage, but such advantages have been routinely overcome by ingenuity in real life. Who's to say that it cannot be done in the ME universe? That is why I believe that the Armageddon War can be fought and won with conventional forces using the Thanix cannon. We are going to take a massive beating doing it, but we can win it if we can achieve some measure of unity.

[paul165]

I would suggest that the Reaper's greatest weakness is that they are required to take prisoners. Therefore the 'easiest' way to slow them down is to eliminate their ground forces and the only way to do that given conventional battle is effectively suicidal is to embrace....alternatives.

Evacuate as many people as possible from a world and fortify the remainder in major cities. The Reapers are on a clock as well as they cannot afford initially to spend to long on each conquest while the galaxy is still capable of resisting. They will send in ground forces just as we see in the conquest of Earth and when the defense has crumbled, as it will, blow the city.

The Reapers themselves won't even notice the explosions but it eliminates the reason for the attack and has cost them significant amounts of ground forces as well. Rinse and repeat a few times and it forces the Reapers to rely on the slower more subtle indoctrination technology. As has correctly been pointed out indoctrination is detectable and sufficient levels of indoctrination detected could also trigger the boom.

As for sleepers they were so effective against the Protheans becuase they were not aware of the threat now we are there are ways to counter the threat - detectors if the technology is easily available or simply destroying any 'escapees' to prevent possible contamination.

Neither of these ideas are going to offer victory but they buy the most important resource which is time. Time to upgrade weapons, find the good/evil switch or just throw the ring in the volcano.

[Iakus]

 It's my belief that part of the trap of the Reapers is to get the other races dependent on the leftover technology the Reapers leave behind.  Notice that not only do the other races not build their own relays, they're reluctant to even open dormant ones.   The turians have been a spacefaring race since the Krogan Rebellions some two thousand years ago, but when humans joined the galactic scene, they were roughly on par technologically speaking.  
What really put a crimp in the Reapers' plan was that the Protheans tried to stretch beyond those limits, and the Reapers missed it.  They tried to expand the network with their own relays.  To go their own way.
The geth are the only ones out there "finding their own way".  If any race is ideally equipped to fight the Reapers at this point, it's them.  The other races advance to a certain point, then pretty much stop.  And I'm sure that the stopping is a point where the Reapers can still stomp the other races.
Thus I think that Shepard will need to find an unconventional way to defeat them. The thanix is a good start, but I don't think it will be enough.   The Reapers have culled the galaxy hundreds, perhaps thousands of times.  They know all about conventional means.  I'm certain they've had hiccups before and managed to adapt to them (the derelict Reaper shows other races have managed to fight back before)  If we meet them strength for strength, we're fighting on the Reapers' terms, and that's a recipe for disaster.
@paul165  Such tactics are grim, but are along the lines of what I'm thinking.  Save as many as you can, but deny the Reapers as many resources as possible.  Save your strength until you can hit them back and hit them hard.  Exchanging one fleet for one Reaper is not a sustainable tradeoff.
And devote as many resources as possible to find ways to detect, and ideally reverse indoctrination.  Rana and Vigil have indicated that the former at least is possible.

[paul165]

I'm not sure that there is anything left to reverse after a subject has been indoctrinated but I certainly agree detecting it should be one of the galaxy's highest priorities.

I'm not sure how far ahead of us the Protheans are/were after all they only had one prototype relay and the Asari bartender was advocating that they start developing their own centuries ago. Possibly they have a couple more tricks but it is unlikely they have anything as formidable as EDI or the Thanix (both reverse engineered front line Reaper tech rather than the 'export models' the Reapers leave around for people to find).

It appears to me that our greatest shot is the development and rapid deployment of AI tech to allow boarding and then cripple the Reapers from the inside rather than trying to punch through the barriers. EDI was after all able to hold off Harbinger (all be it with a significant distance advantage and with Harbinger working through a minion). 5 -10 EDI quality AIs should hopefully be enough to paralyise a Reaper long enough to board ground forces - at which point the ships run.

Hopefully before the Reapers slaughter all of them for the insult....

At which point the boarding teams attempt to destroy the mass effect core and it seems likely that we have better odds in ground strikes than we do in a conventionel fleet battle. Indoctrination is, as always, still an issue but hopefully the indoctrination cannot take the ground team out before they have destroyed the core.

Checking....

Although the codex is not explicit it appears that even accelerated indoctrination takes days and by that time the strike time will have succeeded or failed anyway.

[knightnblu]

I disagree, I believe that waiting too long will doom us just as surely as an all out attack before we are prepared. For the record, the Reapers have reaped the galaxy 666+ times during the past 37,000,000 years. They have been fought, but never defeated.
 
The Reapers are tough, but they are not Gods. There is a reason that Alexander could pit 40,000 Greeks against 100,000 Persians and kick their asses in battle after battle. In fact, Alexander never fought a battle on equal terms. The same can be done to the Reapers. You just have to be smart about how you go after them. One of the cardinal traits of a great captain is boldness. Hesitancy, overly cautious, and being timid are not among the traits of great military leaders. You only win wars by killing the enemy and breaking his will to fight.
 
As for reversing indoctrination, there is likely a point at which this can be done. But once that point has passed, I believe that it is impossible to do so. One cannot unscramble scrambled eggs and attempting to do so will likely result in the death of the afflicted secondary to massive trauma to the central nervous system. In other words, reversing indoctrination will shred their brain.
 
Before you can board a Reaper you have to take down its shields or find a way through them. Otherwise, you won't set foot aboard a Reaper and if you can take out or bypass the shields, why board?

[mkk316]

Id imagine that Shepard would be the most frustrated man/woman in the galaxy. For pretty much years, he's warned of their coming, evidence of the Reapers all over the place, and for the same length of time, he's not only been doubted and scoffed at, but also reprimanded by the Alliance. And when do they choose to believe him? When doom comes knocking at their door and the reapers attack earth.

Unfortunately, he's the only one with enough experience to deal with these bastards, and so he's got to just suck it up and keep going, though I'm sure part of him wants to tell his superiors to **** off and deal with it themselves. I hope we do get to see some of that frustration in the game.

[DocDoomII]

Dunno about mindset before and during the game, but I'm sure of a thing.
If the council doesn't create a law to force every council planet to build a ****ing homongous statue of Shepard in their capital cities, my Shepard is gonna be very pissed

[paul165]

>>Before you can board a Reaper you have to take down its shields or find a way through them. Otherwise, you won't set foot aboard a Reaper and if you can take out or bypass the shields, why board? <<

The scenario was you could hack a reaper briefly with enough AIs to lower shields - I feel it is unlikley at best you could manage to check the thing down long enough to kill it with a conventional battle - especially as seems likely the Reapers aren't going to be stupid enough to attack one by one.