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[Knight of Dane]

iOnlySignIn wrote...
Aveline is the first non-sibling companion for Hawke to meet. Has the longest history with Hawke. And is the only companion (besides Varric and sibling) who will not betray Hawke in any of the possible outcomes. She becomes Guard Captain and provides Hawke with important political and military support.

[Knight of Dane]

As for on topic: No idea. Fenris is entirely optional to even meet, but so is Isabela on the other hand. Perhaps it's the lack of plot relevance that has the dev's ignore them until now.

I remain positive that they will have some sort of Role in a future DLC about Elves in general, but that remains for the future to show..

[frostajulie]

I hope so Fenris is my favorite companion not counting Bethany and Varric and he is def my fav LI but he doesn't like me. But I still go gaga for him and would love to see some DLC featuring him.

[Knight of Dane]

I only consider Tallis a step down, the small story itself for MoTA i found good enough, even though i thought it should have been locked to act 1.

[jlb524]

BioWare hates Merrill and wants to see her suffer FOR ETERNITY!

This is fact. She also gets the least amount of flirting options in her romance.

I don't know about Fenris.

BioWare is discriminating against characters that don't wear shoes. Leliana loves shoes and is in just about every DA2 DLC. I think that's the connection.

Edit:  I agree that those two do feel less connected to the story and to Hawke by extension (unless romanced)...especially Merrill since she gets less dialog than Fenris does overall.  

Modifié par jlb524, 08 décembre 2011 - 11:58 .

[ReallyRue]

I'm also positive that there will be some elf-relative DLC in which Merrill and Fenris get more attention. I really hope so. More Merrill is always good. And a little more story/dialogue etc for Fenris would be good too (something outside of his hate for mages and Danarius would be interesting to see).

[bleetman]

jlb524 wrote...

BioWare is discriminating against characters that don't wear shoes. Leliana loves shoes and is in just about every DA2 DLC. I think that's the connection.

Entirely plausible. Though I was slightly disappointed that nobody ever brings up the fact Tallis wears shoes in any banters. Maybe it's a demand of the Qun.

Shrug. I'm still holding out hope for that Arlathan themed dlc to bump up the relevance fof Merrill and Fenris. Of course, Merrill already plays a vital role to the main game. She's the lovable kitten the plot spends seven years smacking around. Crucial melodrama!

Modifié par bleetman, 08 décembre 2011 - 11:58 .

[schalafi]

Considering how they, (the Devs), had to recycle so many dungeons, and so much useless loot, ( torn pants, etc.), maybe they just didn't have the financial resources to fully flesh out Merrill and Fenrus, as far as importance to the plot went. Or maybe they just had to cut some of the stories for lack of time. I don't really know,

I hardly ever took Merrill with me, but took Fenrus a lot because I played a mage and he was a good fighter. I didn't take Sebastian after my first play through, I got sick of his preaching, and the only significance he had in the game was to threaten to bring his army to the city after the Chantry incident.

I think Varric, Anders, Isabella, and to a lesser extent, Aveline were the key players in the plot, at least as far as dealing with the Qun and the Mage/Templar war. The rest of the npc's were not necessary to the story at all,(except Merrill's ritual to summon Flemeth,) but you could play the rest of the game without ever using her.

Modifié par schalafi, 09 décembre 2011 - 12:09 .

[Knight of Dane]

schalafi wrote...
I didn't take Sebastian after my first play through, I got sick of his preaching, and the only significance he had in the game was to threaten to bring his army to the city after the Chantry incident.

Incorrect, his Act 3 mission is also heavily tied into the main story.

[jlb524]

schalafi wrote...
(except Merrill's ritual to summon Flemeth,) but you could play the rest of the game without ever using her.

Merrill will forever be known as that awful person that resurrected Flemeth and doomed us all!

[bleetman]

jlb524 wrote...

Merrill will forever be known as that awful wonderful person that resurrected Flemeth and doomed us all facilitated the transition to our glorious new silver haired overlord.

Sounds about right.

[jlb524]

iOnlySignIn wrote...
Re: Merrill, you jest, but I'd still point out that BioWare apparently like her. They found her an outstanding VA (who is not a BioWare regular like Fenris's or Anders's VA and I suspect costed more). They also made her extremely likable AND extremely powerful.

I don't know about extremely likeable (it seems most around here don't like her much) but she is powerful in combat (one of the best).

iOnlySignIn wrote...
However, the weakness so far with Merrill's character is that she's so carefree, so detached from the worldly concerns of Thedas ("You don't pay attention to... politics, but you notice kittens?"), that it's near impossible to integrate her into the bigger picture and plot of DA2. I ask myself what kind of DLC featuring Merrill could I think of, and I can't think of any that is in any way connected to the main plot of DA2 (like Legacy). The Dalish are already a peripheral people in Thedas, and Merrill is an outcast from that peripheral culture. She is truly and ultimately alone.

Well, if she had gotten the eluvian working then it's possible she could be tied into the ongoing Flemeth/Morrigan drama somehow.  But that's a no go.  

Merrill still knows loads about ancient elven lore...if that's needed down the road for...something Hawke had to do for some reason...then she'd be important.

iOnlySignIn wrote...
Fenris suffers from a similar but different problem in characterization. He is obssessed with one single social problem in Thedas (slavery), which he himself realize in the end (whether as Friend or Rival) is an entirely separate issue from the Mage-Templar conflict (DA2's main plot). Had DA2 been about slave rebellions in Tevinter toppling the Imperium, the places of Fenris of Anders will have switched, with Fenris blowing up the fortress of Minrathous killing many Magisters (some of them 'innocent'), and Anders being an optional character with mild inclinations to side with the Magisters.

If we get DLC that does a follow up to the 'post-Anders blowing up the Chantry' thing showing us the start of the mage rebellions, Tevinter could be invovled somehow (which would give Fenris a perfect opportunity to have extra dialog).

[schalafi]

Knight of Dane wrote...

schalafi wrote...
I didn't take Sebastian after my first play through, I got sick of his preaching, and the only significance he had in the game was to threaten to bring his army to the city after the Chantry incident.

Incorrect, his Act 3 mission is also heavily tied into the main story.

What was his important Act 3 mission? I don't recall it.

[Maria Caliban]

jlb524 wrote...

BioWare is discriminating against characters that don't wear shoes. Leliana loves shoes and is in just about every DA2 DLC. I think that's the connection.

/thread

[Knight of Dane]

schalafi wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

schalafi wrote...
I didn't take Sebastian after my first play through, I got sick of his preaching, and the only significance he had in the game was to threaten to bring his army to the city after the Chantry incident.

Incorrect, his Act 3 mission is also heavily tied into the main story.

What was his important Act 3 mission? I don't recall it.

You go get warning if the divine is sending an army on Kirkwall! :3
Oh, and you meet Leli too.

[Gervaise]

Whilst neither Fenris or Merrill is "essential" to the story, both of them do in fact give a lot of insight into areas of lore that are directly associated with the mage/templar conflict. Apart from codexes by Brother Genitivi and a letter from Feynriel (if you spare him and he departs for Tevinter), Fenris is the only way you get direct information about what life is like in Tevinter, both from his own experience and through contact with Hadrianna and Danarius. Without Fenris you could kid yourself that all that bad publicity about Tevinter is just Chantry propaganda.

Likewise Merrill throws in some interesting conversations, with Anders in particular, about the nature of spirits/demons and lets you see a blood mage at close quarters who is neither possessed nor sacrificing innocents nor for that matter controlling people's minds. This gives a different perspective on blood magic from that generally shown by other blood mages depicted and might at least make you question whether the blanket condemnation of all blood mages is justified.

Whilst Anders plays a major part in the story, you can actually tell him to get lost in Act 2 and I presume will then do his own thing without Hawke's further assistance. Also I would point out that in Origins some companions played a more important role in the story than others. Alistair and Morrigan are very important to the main plot and the latter gets her own DLC, Oghran gets to feature in Awakening and Lelianna gets her own DLC, whereas Zevran can be killed the first time you meet him and doesn't have a major impact on the main plot thereafter, likewise Sten, Wynne and Shale.

However, I agree that it would be nice to have a DLC or expansion in which Fenris and Merrill could take centre stage, just to redress the balance.

I also find it annoying that Fenris is the only character that Hawke can get to betray to their enemies and yet isn't allowed to triumph. You can report Anders to the Templars but he still gets to plant his bomb, you can hand over Isabella to the Arishok, yet inexplicably she escapes soon after, and you can't even hand Merrill over to her tribe but may even end up killing them, but poor old Fenris is handed over to Danarius and ends up as a compliant slave back in Tevinter. Why they couldn't have Fenris escaping when everyone else is so charmed seems pretty rotten to me

[Lilunebrium]

I too noticed the 'lack' of importance, but as Gervaise pointed out before me, this is with other games too. Jade Empire has Black Whirlwind, Sky and Hou. Origins, as stated, has Zevran, Sten, Shale and Wynne. Mass Effect has an even greater number. 

The thing which makes Dragon Age 2 stick out most, is because contrary to pretty much all other games, it actually has a majority of companions who have direct influence on the storyline. The thing isn't that Fenris and Merrill are 'neglected', it's that the other companions are so prominent.

On another note, the fact that Fenris and Merrill aren't as important to the main storyline could by some people be seen as an extra reason to have Hawke romance them, which in turn does make them important.

Following the general belief, however, I too feel that this serves as an excellent excuse to have a future DLC focus on our lovely elves. Fingers crossed, and all that.

---

Gervaise wrote...
but poor old Fenris is handed over to Danarius and ends up as a compliant slave back in Tevinter. Why they couldn't have Fenris escaping when everyone else is so charmed seems pretty rotten to me

I've never handed Fenris over to him, so I don't know the details on his fate regarding this particular outcome, but I honestly doubt Danarius wouldn't take every precaution measure known to man to prevent another escape. 

On the other hand, it's not too difficult to imagine Fenris simply doesn't have the will to escape, after everything that's happened. He's been nearly constantly on the run after slaughtering the Fog Warriors while feeling Danarius' hot breath in his neck wherever he goes, then finally meets someone who he thinks he can trust, only to have that same someone betray him and turn him over. Hardly good incentive to try again.

[CuriousArtemis]

Interesting point, OP, but I don't think people have to do Big Important Things to be important to the story. Fenris is always important to my Hawke, and that's important enough for me. (Makes him the most important character for me.) Merrill can also become a trusted friend to my Hawke, and again, sometimes that's all he needs. Nevertheless, I do hope for a DLC that focuses a bit more on Merrill and Fenris next time

About Isabela, I'm sure some have mentioned it, but you can avoid ever even meeting her, and the story still makes perfect sense. (Not recommended, as I love that crazy pirate queen!!!)

[caradoc2000]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Sebastian is the only companion you pay extra money for.

Not true, you also pay money for the "companions" at the Blooming Rose...

[Dutchess]

Lilunebrium wrote...

Gervaise wrote...
but poor old Fenris is handed over to Danarius and ends up as a compliant slave back in Tevinter. Why they couldn't have Fenris escaping when everyone else is so charmed seems pretty rotten to me

I've never handed Fenris over to him, so I don't know the details on his fate regarding this particular outcome, but I honestly doubt Danarius wouldn't take every precaution measure known to man to prevent another escape. 

On the other hand, it's not too difficult to imagine Fenris simply doesn't have the will to escape, after everything that's happened. He's been nearly constantly on the run after slaughtering the Fog Warriors while feeling Danarius' hot breath in his neck wherever he goes, then finally meets someone who he thinks he can trust, only to have that same someone betray him and turn him over. Hardly good incentive to try again.

You get a letter from Danarius which says Fenris' memory has been erased and that he is perfectly compliant again.