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Looking back........Your thoughts on Dragon Age 2 months later


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#251
Dragoonlordz

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Sonic Generations was better than DA2, as is every other game they have made even ME2 which was for me worse than ME1. Nothing has changed the same bad game is still the same bad game. You may like the DLC but that is not the game in that being it's optional paid for extra content. Can like DLC and still dislike the game much like if someone dislikes DAO but liked the extra purchased content of Shale squishing pigeons. The original game hasn't changed so has the exact same flaws as always had.

I never bought the DLC because I'm not the kind of person who wishes to be their paying beta tester given DA2 was nothing more than a test of how much they can get away with dumbing it down (simplifying and removing, testing and experimenting within shortest time span) for the masses and making it trigger happy attention deficit crowd pleaser.

I did not like the game so no point investing in its development any further onto that product, as it gives them the wrong impression that I support their direction. Wait to see what they do with DA3 but wouldn't get hopes up it comes across to me that Bioware don't even know what they want or what to do these days without being told be EA where they going to go next.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 11 décembre 2011 - 08:43 .


#252
FieryDove

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jlb524 wrote...

That's for you to decide.  What did the Warden do before the events that we saw in DA:O?

I guess...sit on his/her bum and eat sweetmeats all day?


Warning snark meter is maxxed and stuck there until ToR launches. No offense is intended. (To anyone)

We didn't start in years before we became a warden...did we? Is there a prequel hiding somewhere? Dang I missed it.

I decided all my Hawke's packed bags to leave Kirkwall. But that didn't work so well. The game yes *GAME* said I stayed and did...zip. Pretty much that.

Modifié par FieryDove, 11 décembre 2011 - 08:47 .


#253
ioannisdenton

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HanErlik wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Gunderic wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

It was pretty much the fact that it was completely different from Dragon Age: Origins that's part of the problem.


The gameplay was mostly an evolution. If you look at the combat, the level-up system and the basic mechanics, it's easy to see that they are extremely similar.


trolling? :huh:

How is she trolling when she is in fact right?


Of course; removal of tactical camera, airborne enemies, killing a hundred clone in order to cross a street, "I hate you, so come to bed" romances, teleporting rogues, reducing dialogue lines to half of the first game, the most passive protagonist, no non-combat skills... Sound like a great step for RPG genre to me.

.. i made a rant and i was called (almost or not) an idiot. your post only justifies my rant.
Hell, the loot in DA2 was attrocious, the same rings over and over again with different star rating...
poor loot, you defeated some difficult encounters only to find a weapon that sucks..
You play as a blood mage while speaking in Commander templar meredith who imprisons all mages with Anders in your party and nothing happens.
Rpg at its finest. :o

#254
ioannisdenton

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xkg wrote...


I'll just drop it here guys.
You should ask yourself a question - do you want to play a game filled up with cinematics or game filled up with other content - like text, dialogues etc...

(what is funny here - DA2 even with its voiced protagonist has 30% less spoken lines than DAO)

So you have 2 choices now


Dragon Age: Origins 
1,000,000 Words
1,000 Cinematics
1,000 Characters
56,000 Spoken Lines 
60 Hours of Gameplay
1000 button presses required

Dragon Age II

400,000 Words
2,500 Cinematics
500 Characters
38,000 Spoken Lines
40 Hours of Gameplay
100000000000000000000000000000000000 button awesome presses required.


http://gamrfeed.vgch...more-cinematic/


FIXED

Modifié par ioannisdenton, 11 décembre 2011 - 08:54 .


#255
TEWR

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jlb524 wrote...

FieryDove wrote...
Which is why I adore BW games. Story and companions. That has always been BW's strong suit. (imho)

But when my characters have to make up things or read a codex to find out what they/companions have been doing for multiple years...several times during one game it makes me...scratch my head again.


That specific example is an issue with the time jumps in DA2 and doesn't have anything to do with the 'movie' quality they are going for.  I'm not sure how they could have handled that better, short of showing you what happened during the time jumps.



That's precisely what I think should've been done. Brief clips of the companions being shown during an extended version of Varric's narration. Or using the same type of style that was used in Varric's narration of events in Kirkwall.

And a clip of everyone playing strip poker at the Hanged Man.

*is putting that in his fanfic*

#256
sevalaricgirl

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KilrB wrote...

Maybe after playing many more hours of TW2, DE:HR, Skyrim, FO:NV, and more DA:O we've come to realize how awesome and innovative DA2 was? :whistle:

Bioware's continuing efforts to convince the public of this are pathetic and doomed to failure.

How do I feel about DA2 now?


Oh I agree completely,  Those who loved DA2 need to play the above games.  I've put 300 hrs into Skyrim since it came out.  It has it's issues but there are reasons it was the GOTY (and not because Bethesda paid them off).  I just started Fallout New Vegas after having it for a few months, Steam sale, and I am amazed by how good it is.  Again, Deus Ex Human Revolution, another awesome game.  Dragon Age Origins, played it 19 times.  I could barely bring myself to play DA2 3 times and only made it through Legacy once and didn't even bother with the new DLC.  There are just too many excellent games out to bother playing DA2 again. 

My opinion of DA2.  I liked the combat but there wasn't enough variation.  The characters were so shallow, the romance was ridiculously shallow (similar to ME2, I didn't like ME2s romances), the inability to choose whether you do a quest or not (Sis Petrice), you couldn't even avoid that because no matter what you were trapped.  I've always hated that feeling.  Yes most rpgs have the allusion of choice, but they do it a heck of a lot better than DA2.  Reuse of dungeons etc.  I haven't played DA2 in so long I had to ask my son when it came out.  He never even got through the game.  Made it to the beginning of Act 2 and then got very bored.  He's 15 so it's not like he's had no rpg experience.  He loved DAO and was talking about playing it again today.  If the DA team continues in the direction they're in now, I won't be buying DA3. 

#257
MagmaSaiyan

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honestly it really havent changed much, but some waves of enemies are starting to bug me<_<

sevalaricgirl wrote...

KilrB wrote...

Maybe after playing many more hours of TW2, DE:HR, Skyrim, FO:NV, and more DA:O we've come to realize how awesome and innovative DA2 was? Posted Image

Bioware's continuing efforts to convince the public of this are pathetic and doomed to failure.

How do I feel about DA2 now?


Oh I agree completely,  Those who loved DA2 need to play the above games.  I've put 300 hrs into Skyrim since it came out.  It has it's issues but there are reasons it was the GOTY (and not because Bethesda paid them off).  I just started Fallout New Vegas after having it for a few months, Steam sale, and I am amazed by how good it is.  Again, Deus Ex Human Revolution, another awesome game.  Dragon Age Origins, played it 19 times.  I could barely bring myself to play DA2 3 times and only made it through Legacy once and didn't even bother with the new DLC.  There are just too many excellent games out to bother playing DA2 again.  

My opinion of DA2.  I liked the combat but there wasn't enough variation.  The characters were so shallow, the romance was ridiculously shallow (similar to ME2, I didn't like ME2s romances), the inability to choose whether you do a quest or not (Sis Petrice), you couldn't even avoid that because no matter what you were trapped.  I've always hated that feeling.  Yes most rpgs have the allusion of choice, but they do it a heck of a lot better than DA2.  Reuse of dungeons etc.  I haven't played DA2 in so long I had to ask my son when it came out.  He never even got through the game.  Made it to the beginning of Act 2 and then got very bored.  He's 15 so it's not like he's had no rpg experience.  He loved DAO and was talking about playing it again today.  If the DA team continues in the direction they're in now, I won't be buying DA3. 


well im not likely to even come close to TW2, not interested DE:HR, or FO:NV. but Skyrim has likely changed my mind about Xbox

Modifié par MagmaSaiyan, 11 décembre 2011 - 09:41 .


#258
Akka le Vil

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jlb524 wrote...

It seems that way, as DA:O is often used as the standard for excellence when pointing out DA2's flaws.

I know, and it does irritate me - because first it erase every flaws that DAO had, which were rather numerous, and hence makes an actual improvement of the serie rather difficult, and second it makes it too much of a comparison instead of showing that DA2 has problems on its own.

MagmaSaiyan wrote...

well im not likely to even come close to TW2, not interested DE:HR, or FO:NV. but Skyrim has likely changed my mind about Xbox

You're punishing yourself, man. These three games are the among best ones that were released these past two years (not like they had a lot of competition, sure, but still).
New Vegas in particular is the most delicious RPG I've seen since BG2. Sure it's a bit inferior to DAO in writing, but everything else is just top-notch.

#259
DreamwareStudio

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Akka le Vil wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

It seems that way, as DA:O is often used as the standard for excellence when pointing out DA2's flaws.

I know, and it does irritate me - because first it erase every flaws that DAO had, which were rather numerous, and hence makes an actual improvement of the serie rather difficult, and second it makes it too much of a comparison instead of showing that DA2 has problems on its own.

MagmaSaiyan wrote...

well im not likely to even come close to TW2, not interested DE:HR, or FO:NV. but Skyrim has likely changed my mind about Xbox

You're punishing yourself, man. These three games are the among best ones that were released these past two years (not like they had a lot of competition, sure, but still).
New Vegas in particular is the most delicious RPG I've seen since BG2. Sure it's a bit inferior to DAO in writing, but everything else is just top-notch.


I will one up this.  Skyrim and the Witcher 2 are some of the best games to come out ever.

#260
Morroian

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sevalaricgirl wrote...

KilrB wrote...

Maybe after playing many more hours of TW2, DE:HR, Skyrim, FO:NV, and more DA:O we've come to realize how awesome and innovative DA2 was? :whistle:

Bioware's continuing efforts to convince the public of this are pathetic and doomed to failure.

How do I feel about DA2 now?


Oh I agree completely,  Those who loved DA2 need to play the above games.  

I have (with the exception of TW2 which I refuse to play). Skyrim is probably now my favorite game ever, Fallout New Vegas is just behind it for games played this year but guess what, I still love DA2. Bioware's dialogue/character interaction based approach with full party control and a responsive easy to use UI, immerses me despite the flaws.   

#261
Morroian

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FieryDove wrote...

But when my characters have to make up things or read a codex to find out what they/companions have been doing for multiple years...several times during one game it makes me...scratch my head again.


I don't see how different this is from say Skyrim where you're given the bare bones of a character at the start and have to make up stuff in your head 

#262
Sylvianus

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Morroian wrote...

FieryDove wrote...

But when my characters have to make up things or read a codex to find out what they/companions have been doing for multiple years...several times during one game it makes me...scratch my head again.


I don't see how different this is from say Skyrim where you're given the bare bones of a character at the start and have to make up stuff in your head 

Not the point, but skyrim isn't supposed to focus on characters like in bioware's games. That changes everything.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 11 décembre 2011 - 11:32 .


#263
Loup Blanc

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X months later, I am still as disappointed and annoyed by DA2 as I was upon release. I despise this game.

#264
Loup Blanc

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google_calasade wrote...

Akka le Vil wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

It seems that way, as DA:O is often used as the standard for excellence when pointing out DA2's flaws.

I know, and it does irritate me - because first it erase every flaws that DAO had, which were rather numerous, and hence makes an actual improvement of the serie rather difficult, and second it makes it too much of a comparison instead of showing that DA2 has problems on its own.

MagmaSaiyan wrote...

well im not likely to even come close to TW2, not interested DE:HR, or FO:NV. but Skyrim has likely changed my mind about Xbox

You're punishing yourself, man. These three games are the among best ones that were released these past two years (not like they had a lot of competition, sure, but still).
New Vegas in particular is the most delicious RPG I've seen since BG2. Sure it's a bit inferior to DAO in writing, but everything else is just top-notch.


I will one up this.  Skyrim and the Witcher 2 are some of the best games to come out ever.


+1

#265
Plaintiff

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silentassassin264 wrote...
See the problem is that while you pointed out the mages are treated horriby and that leads to the cornered mentality makes them sympathetic, the writers did not agree with you.  Fenris, that former templar, and pretty much every non mage in the game always go to the circular insane logic that since they turned to the blood magic in the corner, it proofs them right that all mages are going to lose control and cause havoc.  Despite that is clearly insane troll logic, they feel perfectly justified and the writers felt perfectly justified with that accusation.

Well the views of the characters don't necessarily reflect the views of the writers. I think the writers expect us to be able to look deeper and think harder, rather than just take everything characters say at face value.

As I said with Merrill before, she did nothing wrong.  It was not like Merrill was running around using blood magic for mundane or slightly evil things.  She was being rather responsible and in a New Path did nothing wrong and still everyone in the clan blames Merrill for Marethari's suicide and they even make Merrill blame herself for doing absolutely nothing wrong and feel quite justified because she is a blood mage.  Merrill is my favorite character and her character quest just ends up another way for them to talk down mages and act like the a stupid, irresponsible adult children who endanger everyone around them.

But the fact that you feel that their anger is unjustified proves that the game still leaves you space to sympathise with mage characters. Merrill being punsihed for her choices doesn't mean that the writers want her to be portrayed as evil. There's still, I feel, substantial room for self-interpretation.

Yes if you look for the mage oppresion in the game, it is there, seeing as by Act 3 they are held in cages.  But do you ever get to see the mages held like animals?  Do you see any non mage really taking their side?  Nope and Nope.  The writers made everything in the game feel like it was perfectly justified in response to the mages and that is the bias.  If you stand up with Orsino in the square at the beginning of Act 3, no one joins you out of sympathy of the mages.  The nobles that join you do it because they want to overthrow Meredith and get the nobility ruling again, not any sympathy for the mages.  The Mage Underground is family members of mages and mages so that is still pretty much an exception and it really does not tie into the main story anyway.

Well the templars are the ruling power in Kirkwall and mages are not. The mages have nothing to lose by fighting back; they're already in a prison. But the nobility risks a lot, especially with Meredith trying to take over the city guard. Any noble who spoke out against her or in support of mages could find themselves arrested on suspicion of harbourng apostates, or even being one, or some other trumped up charge altogether.

It's kind of hard to imagine the writers being biased against fictional characters they created. Obviously they expected some people to side with the mages, since they made it possible to do that. Having a pro-mage Hawke flee Kirkwall isn't a punishment for making the "wrong" choice. It's a logical consequence of his actions, and the only one that makes sense. The Chantry is still the most powerful organization in Thedas, and it's not going to look too kindly on those who openly oppose it. Hawke, for all his power, still would not be able to combat the full might of the Chantry and the templars. Personally, I thought being on the run was the perfect ending for pro-mage Hawke. The idea of being viscount doesn't appeal to me at all.

#266
silentassassin264

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I can because as I said before, I debated with Gaider about this before Dragon Age 2 came out. His fanatical anti-mage position went well beyond the normal devil's advocate stance. I would go as far as to say Fenris was his mouth piece.

#267
Plaintiff

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silentassassin264 wrote...

I can because as I said before, I debated with Gaider about this before Dragon Age 2 came out. His fanatical anti-mage position went well beyond the normal devil's advocate stance. I would go as far as to say Fenris was his mouth piece.

If that is the case, then why did he write Morrigan in Origins and Anders in Awakening? Both of them are extremely popular characters who are apostate mages. Why did he make Alistair, a templar, extremely sympathetic to the mage cause (to the extent that, if made King of Ferelden, he will grant refuge to mages fleeing from the Free Marches)?

It doesn't add up. Gaider's decision to write Fenris only proves that he thought Fenris was the more interesting character, and that's assuming it was his decision at all. We know nothing about how characters get assigned to writers, maybe they pull names out of a hat.

As far as the Mage/Templar debate goes, I highly doubt Gaider has a particular preference one way or the other. Of all people, he must be extremely aware that the conflict and the characters involved are entirely fictional. Even if you were right, and he delierately caused the game to be biased in favour of templars, what's his ulterior motivation? What could he possibly be trying to acheive? What does he gain from having a bunch of nerds take a particular side in a fictional universe?

Modifié par Plaintiff, 12 décembre 2011 - 01:43 .


#268
Morroian

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silentassassin264 wrote...

I can because as I said before, I debated with Gaider about this before Dragon Age 2 came out. His fanatical anti-mage position went well beyond the normal devil's advocate stance.

I've been here since DA2 was announced and I've always thought he was simply playing the devils advocate, perhaps in part because some of the fanatical mage supporters come off as a bit unhinged.

#269
RagingCyclone

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silentassassin264 wrote...

I can because as I said before, I debated with Gaider about this before Dragon Age 2 came out. His fanatical anti-mage position went well beyond the normal devil's advocate stance. I would go as far as to say Fenris was his mouth piece.


You have to realize that sometimes DG will also mess with your head. Read enough of his posts and you can tell when he is, to quote Leliana, "having you on" and when he is being serious. Are you sure he was being totally serious in your discussions with him?

#270
DreamwareStudio

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Plaintiff wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

I can because as I said before, I debated with Gaider about this before Dragon Age 2 came out. His fanatical anti-mage position went well beyond the normal devil's advocate stance. I would go as far as to say Fenris was his mouth piece.

If that is the case, then why did he write Morrigan in Origins and Anders in Awakening? Both of them are extremely popular characters who are apostate mages. Why did he make Alistair, a templar, extremely sympathetic to the mage cause (to the extent that, if made King of Ferelden, he will grant refuge to mages fleeing from the Free Marches)?

It doesn't add up. Gaider's decision to write Fenris only proves that he thought Fenris was the more interesting character, and that's assuming it was his decision at all. We know nothing about how characters get assigned to writers, maybe they pull names out of a hat.

As far as the Mage/Templar debate goes, I highly doubt Gaider has a particular preference one way or the other. Of all people, he must be extremely aware that the conflict and the characters involved are entirely fictional. Even if you were right, and he delierately caused the game to be biased in favour of templars, what's his ulterior motivation? What could he possibly be trying to acheive? What does he gain from having a bunch of nerds take a particular side in a fictional universe?


Writers who are emotionally vested in their stories do not think in terms such as ulterior motives or goals to achieve.  They are also too attached to the characters and the story to maintain any kind of objectivity.  It's why many of us use proofreaders, betareaders, and any other tool or resource we have at our disposal.

Gaider having a bias for one side or the other could be nothing more than his being emotionally connected to one or the other for a myriad of reasons.  If a bias exists, he may not even be consciously aware (or more likely refusing to admit) it is there.  The reactions I've read of him having when challeneged on the point allude to that.

Modifié par google_calasade, 12 décembre 2011 - 06:02 .


#271
Rawgrim

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Gaider is a damn good writer. Just saying it. The fellow deserves alot of praise.

#272
DreamwareStudio

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Rawgrim wrote...

Gaider is a damn good writer. Just saying it. The fellow deserves alot of praise.


I meant no offense to his writing, and I hope no one construes my comments as critical towards that end.  What I referred to is simply something all writers deal with.  I am guilty of it as well.  To us, having someone question what we've done is akin to a stranger verbally assaulting one's child.

#273
Savber100

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I was rewatching (and replaying) several cutscenes and gameplay in DA2 and all I can think of was just how linear andhow badly-written the game was. In short, DA2 still sucks. This isn't some game that will "turn good" over the passage of time. 

Come on Bioware.... Return to the roots like you've promised with DA:O. Why kill the very formula that made you great (e.g. Dragon Age: Origins, Baldur's Gate 2). Also don't give me crap about not resting on your laurels because honestly we rather you rest on your laurels than crap on them with bad games.

Modifié par Savber100, 12 décembre 2011 - 08:48 .


#274
Akka le Vil

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silentassassin264 wrote...

I can because as I said before, I debated with Gaider about this before Dragon Age 2 came out. His fanatical anti-mage position went well beyond the normal devil's advocate stance. I would go as far as to say Fenris was his mouth piece.

I never felt Gaider was anti-mage.
What I felt is that the playerbase as a whole is much more sympathetic to mages than a population would be if they were real, and to offer a balanced view, he had to point out the problems with mages much more often than the ones with "oppressing" them.

#275
alex90c

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Rawgrim wrote...

Gaider is a damn good writer. Just saying it. The fellow deserves alot of praise.


lets make Orsino go crazy because MOAR BOSS FIGHTS