314 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

alex90c wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Gaider is a damn good writer. Just saying it. The fellow deserves alot of praise.

lets make Orsino go crazy because MOAR BOSS FIGHTS

don't forget Meredith -- who was never characterized properly -- going bat**** insane due to an idol we knew almost nothing about.

[alex90c]

hey man, lyriumsabres are awesome.

NOT.

[Uccio]

Could have been so much much much better with some time and care. Now, annoying the hell out of me with all the shortcomings.

ps. whats with the idea of every mage becoming insanely arrogant and possessed with blood magic? Bio went sooooo much overboard with that one.

[TheReignmaker]

Oh look it's this thread again...

Actually I can't fault the OP or anyone from starting these. As much as the forum regulars (and moderators) get tired of it, this is what happens when you make a sequel for a different audience - lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth.

That being said, as time has passed I've come to just be grateful that DAO was ever made. It's an anomaly - a game that dared to break from the mainstream mold - resurrecting the spirit of those old infinity classics which were the undisputed masters of roleplaying back in the day.

Making a fully realized 3D world with the level of detail (and content) in DAO, was no small feat. While some will still complain about linear choices and an unoriginal story, I challenge anyone to point out anything (prior to Skyrim) that has come close to the scale of that DAO achieved. Sure, big had been done before but the unmet challenge was filling those gorgeous landscapes with something worth sticking around for (I'm looking at you, Oblivion).

Even today, most developers with that amount of content are trying to charge a subscription for it. Instead of making a living-breathing world, they spend their time creating glorified play-pens where 14-year-olds can troll with their friends and mow down brain-dead NPCs.

Simply put, DAO was awesome. And is still awesome in my humble opinion.

[DreamwareStudio]

TheReignmaker wrote...

Oh look it's this thread again...

Actually I can't fault the OP or anyone from starting these. As much as the forum regulars (and moderators) get tired of it, this is what happens when you make a sequel for a different audience - lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth.

That being said, as time has passed I've come to just be grateful that DAO was ever made. It's an anomaly - a game that dared to break from the mainstream mold - resurrecting the spirit of those old infinity classics which were the undisputed masters of roleplaying back in the day.

Making a fully realized 3D world with the level of detail (and content) in DAO, was no small feat. While some will still complain about linear choices and an unoriginal story, I challenge anyone to point out anything (prior to Skyrim) that has come close to the scale of that DAO achieved. Sure, big had been done before but the unmet challenge was filling those gorgeous landscapes with something worth sticking around for (I'm looking at you, Oblivion).

Even today, most developers with that amount of content are trying to charge a subscription for it. Instead of making a living-breathing world, they spend their time creating glorified play-pens where 14-year-olds can troll with their friends and mow down brain-dead NPCs.

Simply put, DAO was awesome. And is still awesome in my humble opinion.

Well said regarding DA:O!

[ref]

I can go back and play Dragon Age after replaying it about 6 times and the story is still interesting and dialogue is so well written -- I tried to replay DA2 a month ago and it's just so dull/boring and weak in comparison in every aspect.

[Sylvianus]

Savber100 wrote...

I was rewatching (and replaying) several cutscenes and gameplay in DA2 and all I can think of was just how linear andhow badly-written the game was. In short, DA2 still sucks. This isn't some game that will "turn good" over the passage of time. 

Come on Bioware.... Return to the roots like you've promised with DA:O. Why kill the very formula that made you great (e.g. Dragon Age: Origins, Baldur's Gate 2). Also don't give me crap about not resting on your laurels because honestly we rather you rest on your laurels than crap on them with bad games.

Mhh this.

Otherwise, my feelings today ? Well, about DA2 itself, I don't care anymore, a real mess for me. I wouldn't talk at all about this game forgetting it forever. But since DA3 is coming, and we don't know yet how it will turn, I am forced to think about it sometimes. I do hope that many issues to me will be avoided for the next game.

I don't ask for a new DAO, but a fair game, or a great game at best.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 12 décembre 2011 - 09:06 .

[Morroian]

alex90c wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Gaider is a damn good writer. Just saying it. The fellow deserves alot of praise.

lets make Orsino go crazy because MOAR BOSS FIGHTS

How do you know that was his decision? To me it seems more like the decision a game designer would make more than the writer. 

Ukki wrote...

ps. whats with the idea of every mage becoming insanely arrogant and possessed with blood magic? Bio went sooooo much overboard with that one.

Really, wow haven't heard that criticism before.

Modifié par Morroian, 12 décembre 2011 - 10:47 .

[Luvinn]

Months later, DA2 is still uninstalled on my computer. I have played DA:O quite a few times since though, but I'll probably keep DA2 on the retired list.

One thing it did accomplish though is that it made me hesitant to pre-order games ever again. I'll wait on the reviews for DA3.

Modifié par Luvinn, 12 décembre 2011 - 10:49 .

[morgan rose]

I played DA2 first and thought it was good.And then I played DAO and loved it.So when I played DA2 for the second time I found it to be dull.I was only intersted to see or hear from the characters of DAO

[FaWa]

Morroian wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Gaider is a damn good writer. Just saying it. The fellow deserves alot of praise.

lets make Orsino go crazy because MOAR BOSS FIGHTS

How do you know that was his decision? To me it seems more like the decision a game designer would make more than the writer. 

Well whoevers fault it was, it was still something that should never have happened. Like, wtf was the point of that? We already have lightsaber lady running around and Anders becoming a terrorist

[Akka le Vil]

TheReignmaker wrote...

That being said, as time has passed I've come to just be grateful that DAO was ever made. It's an anomaly - a game that dared to break from the mainstream mold - resurrecting the spirit of those old infinity classics which were the undisputed masters of roleplaying back in the day.

The head-scrathing point being : DAO has been the most successful game Bioware ever made (outselling even ME2).
As such, breaking out of the usual mainstream has been beneficial. Why do they sunk back in it ?
That's just the part I'll never understand with today's publishers...

Making a fully realized 3D world with the level of detail (and content) in DAO, was no small feat. While some will still complain about linear choices and an unoriginal story, I challenge anyone to point out anything (prior to Skyrim) that has come close to the scale of that DAO achieved. Sure, big had been done before but the unmet challenge was filling those gorgeous landscapes with something worth sticking around for (I'm looking at you, Oblivion).

New Vegas called and wants to have a word with you.
TW2 is also online.
Morrowind would have called but he's left a message nearly ten years ago so he doesn't feel the need to repeat himself.

And if you consider Skyrim worthy, Oblivion is worthy as well (at least once modded ).

[OdanUrr]

JohnEpler wrote...

If you want to continue this discussion without the pointless ad hominems (and yes, 'Instead it became a lame cartoon romp only a 10 year old might still find cool.' falls under that category), please feel free, as long as you continue to respect the opinions of those who disagree with you.

If you feel that making sure the world knows just how much classier and intelligent you think you are than those who dared to enjoy the game is super important, please, continue down that road, and you will quickly discover why, in this case, heeding Robert Frost's advice may be a poor decision.

I know I'm a little late here but just wanted to say... epic reference! "The road not taken" is one of my all-time favorite poems.

"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference."

[Realmzmaster]

DA2 is still on my hard drive. I am on my ninth playthrough and still having fun. It is a good game. It has it s faults but so did DAO. I still do not think either one holds a candle to some of the earlier games. Morrowind is the best game in the TES series. Oblivion was a disappointment as is Skyrim. But that is my humble opinion. YMMV.

[Rawgrim]

OdanUrr wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

If you want to continue this discussion without the pointless ad hominems (and yes, 'Instead it became a lame cartoon romp only a 10 year old might still find cool.' falls under that category), please feel free, as long as you continue to respect the opinions of those who disagree with you.

If you feel that making sure the world knows just how much classier and intelligent you think you are than those who dared to enjoy the game is super important, please, continue down that road, and you will quickly discover why, in this case, heeding Robert Frost's advice may be a poor decision.

I know I'm a little late here but just wanted to say... epic reference! "The road not taken" is one of my all-time favorite poems.

"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference."

So the road thats the most traveled is the common road. In the video game business, that would be something for the masses. Something "streamlined" maybe? Sounds like Dragon Age 2 is not the road to travel then.

[TheReignmaker]

morgan rose wrote...

I played DA2 first and thought it was good.And then I played DAO and loved it.So when I played DA2 for the second time I found it to be dull.I was only intersted to see or hear from the characters of DAO

And people wonder why Bioware is bringing back all these DAO characters to the DLC.  Heh, well actually no one is really wondering.

[brightblueink]

I've actually been thinking about this a lot lately. When the game first came out, I sat down and beat it after a few weeks. which is REALLY unusual for me--I tend to be easily distracted, and at times easily frustrated with games, so it can often take me months, if not years, to actually finish a game, particularly an RPG. Just as a reference, here's some of the games I own, but haven't beaten: Metroid Prime, every console Zelda game since Ocarina of Time (except for Skyward Sword, which...might be a good thing at this point) plus several handheld games, Fallout 3, Devil May Cry 1, 3 and 4...I grew up watching my brother playing a lot of games and, for some reason, never finishing them myself, it's depressing. I'm only just now getting better about getting into the habit of sitting down and beating games.

So, anyway, DA2 held my attention unusually well, and really excited me while I was playing it. I even thought to myself "I can't wait to play that again!" when I finished it. But when I tried, I found that I didn't have characters that "stuck" like my first Hawke did, and at that point my attention was being called to other games, so I set it aside and never got farther than level 8 or so on subsequent playthroughs.

Fast forward to today. My brother recently bought Skyrim, and at first the world in that game really grabbed me. Whenever he wasn't around I'd use the chance to jump into the game and play, and started making really good time in the game. But...eventually...I started thinking about DA2 in comparison to Skyrim, and although I found exploring fun and really enjoyed the dungeons and quests, something...wasn't...quite there for me. So a few days ago I booted up Dragon Age 2 for the first time in months, and started playing it.

I'm already to the 2nd act. Last Saturday I think I spent something like 8 hours straight playing through it, glued to the game, and only stopped when I finally convinced myself I needed to sleep. Once again, this game has me hooked.

I know logically that DA2 is a flawed game. It's so, so obviously rushed and it's painful. The setting is small enough that it should have plenty of room to be fleshed out and detailed, and it's...bare. The repeating dungeons are an annoyance (particularly since I've recently been playing Skyrim, which could've easily had boring, lifeless dungeons like Oblivion but has somehow avoided it). The waves 'o mooks are silly.  It needed an extra six months, maybe a year of development time. I know that I'll be frustrated with the length of Act 3 once I get to it, and the lack of development in those events when compared to the first two acts. (PARTICULARLY the second act.)

But I still adore this game. Warts and all. Ugly, blocky NPC-bots included. Even though I know the battles could be more strategic, I still have a TON of fun in the battles, particularly boss fights. I enjoy building my characters. And most of all, I live for ever line of dialogue from my companions, every moment I get to see Hawke interact with them, every bit of banter between Varric and Cassandra that hint at how my journey is going. I know intellectually that my choices won't affect the end game the way they did in Origins, but it really doesn't matter to me when I play the game. I'm enjoying the journey, and in the Dragon Age games in general it's always been the little moments that've mattered to me the most rather than the gigantic set pieces. The things I remember in Origins--seeing my city elf's father for the first time in what felt like months, watching my character grow to love Alistair only to lose him because of her background and because of the mistakes that she/I made--are still present in spirit in DA2. Years from now, the things I remember about this game won't be the waves of enemies or how that one warehouse looked. In fact, I'd already half forgotten about them when I started my new playthrough. What drew me back, and what keeps me coming back, is the characters and the story. Hanging out with Varric at the Hanged Man, choosing a love interest and watching them grow and change (sometimes for the worst), watching my newest version of Hawke grow and change both on the screen and in my mind, watching her family slowly fall apart, constantly changing my mind on my feelings of the Qun, and the mages and templars...that's the stuff that I really care about at the end of the day.

TL;DR: I know it's flawed, and I don't think it's a "great" game on the level of a lot of true masterpieces out there, but when it comes to my personal feelings on it? I love it. I really, truly love this game.

Now a lot of this is probably my background. I didn't have a gaming PC growing up, so outside of a select few games (mostly educational--and Tribes and Tribes 2, randomly) I've been a console gamer most of my life.I grew up playing lots of Nintendo games and JRPGs, and didn't even try a western RPG until KOTOR. I'm used to the idea of an RPG being "stat-based gameplay" rather than "role playing my own, unique character" so I'm much more forgiving when the PC has a life of their own or my choices don't have a huge impact. Also, as I admitted earlier, I start more games than I finish, and I don't think I can call myself a "hardcore" gamer as it's only been in the last few years as i've taken "ownership" of my identity as a gamer, so to speak, rather than riding on my brother's coattails. I know my opinion will probably be dismissed because of my background. But, when it comes down to it, I have fun with this game while I'm playing it, and it sticks with me long after I turn it off.

So in that sense? The game accomplished what it set out to do for me personally. I do hope that DA3 will be in development for as long as it needs, and that the flaws and criticisms will be learned from...but also I hope that the good things about this game will be remembered and learned from, too. IMO to completely dismiss the game is throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I think there's a way we can keep the more personal, grey-and-grey storyline and engaging battles while still having the strategy and more traditional feel of DA:O. I really do think there's a middle ground here, and that's what I hope for the most as this series continues.

I swear I set out to be short when I sat down to write this. Really.

[Realmzmaster]

@brightblueink,

You enjoy the game. There is nothing wrong with that. You enjoyed the game that is all that matters. If others dismiss you because of what you like or your RPG background that is their problem not yours. I like DA2 and I also recognize its faults. I make no apology for what I like and neither should you.
You are an individual with your likes and dislikes.

[Morroian]

brightblueink wrote...

But I still adore this game. Warts and all. Ugly, blocky NPC-bots included. Even though I know the battles could be more strategic, I still have a TON of fun in the battles, particularly boss fights. I enjoy building my characters. And most of all, I live for ever line of dialogue from my companions, every moment I get to see Hawke interact with them, every bit of banter between Varric and Cassandra that hint at how my journey is going. I know intellectually that my choices won't affect the end game the way they did in Origins, but it really doesn't matter to me when I play the game.

This a thousand times this.

Well said your whole post.

[TheReignmaker]

@ brightblueink - I can respect that approach.

[hunterxx1xx]

 

[Chiramu]

*Looking back* I wonder why I can't complete the game DA2 anymore, but then when I think about the game in my head I know why I'm not playing it.

Only cause DA2 has like ZERO re-playability :<, you can't really choose to play a different way unless you took your entire brain out of your head and played like a zombie. I seriously CANNOT help Merrill destroy herself :< no matter how many times I've played the game, actually helping her destroy herself is such a terrible thing to do (the road to hell was paved on good intentions)! T_T

So yeah, me looking back makes me think, "I can't play this game again".

Bioware should watch Gandhi and Les Miserables , especially if they are writing a revolution.

[eroeru]

The result as of now? I'm just not moved by Bioware's doings anymore. This probably goes for DA3 too.

[Trikun]

I was contemplating restarting a playthrough of DA2, but find myself having difficulty getting invested now. This is probably because I've played through so many times I know the story arc's, and since they all pretty much end up in the same place. Considering DA:O has become unplayable to me, due to the way-too-slow pacing and combat, I think I'm gonna have to sit this one out, and await ME3, and possibly DA3 whenever that gets out. What I am wondering about, is why nothing new is coming out in terms of content. Not only have they skipped releasing anything to make the game more mod-friendly, we haven't seen anything new in terms of DLC since Mark of the Assassin. That's 2 proper DLC's since the release of the game (not counting the item packs). Having a mod-friendly game greatly increases the games lifespan. Look at DA:O which is still on peoples minds, seeing new mods popping out, making fans play more, and replay again to see changes in the game. I'm afraid DA2 will go into the history books far too soon, much like Jade Empire. Time will tell though :\\