314 réponses à ce sujet

[HowlHowl]

Plaintiff wrote...

HowlHowl wrote...

Andrastee wrote...

See, I am a DAO fan. I've played the game eight times. This has not stopped me playing DA2 five times (so far) and enjoying it immensely. Obviously other people are entitled to their opinions.

. It doesn't really matter what character you
are, you'll live. And easily too. All three of you can be mages and it
doesn't really matter, you won't have to "learn" how to use this specifc
class effectively. Just mash the powers and you'll be grand..... No
significant difference in the classes. No replay value in my opinion.

This is the part of your post I just can't agree with. I've played both games on Nightmare and feel that party balance is more important in DA2. In DAO a party with three mages could faceroll almost everything with Storm of the Century. In DA2 cross-class combos make having a balanced party a more attractive option.

It's a bit of a cop-out to say he's wrong about lackluster class definition and party mechanics just because the game is harder on the hardest difficulty. Whether you play on Easy mode or Nightmare, classes should feel meaningfully and noticeable different in gameplay, and party integrity should be inherent.

And this was acheived in DA:O by... completely shortchanging rogues with only one skill set specific to them?

class definition was lacklustre in Origins, I always thought it was bull**** that they gave warriors dual-wield and archery, not to mention that the trap and poison (and I think pickpocket) skills were available to every single class. As someone who plays the "Rogue" archetype in any fantasy game where that's an option, I was very disappointed by how rogues were handled in Origins, and I was extremely happy to see that they changed that in DA2.

You also missed her point about cross-class combos. Having a more balanced party is a more attractive option than it was in DA:O because variety provides a tangible benefit and an element of strategy that wasn't present in the previous game.

On-topic: over all, I prefer DA2. I don't mind that it's shorter, and recycled environments don't bug me either. I like DA2's story better, I like the party members and the party banter better, I like the combat better. No, I will never, ever get tired of roundhouse kicking a grenade into someone's face.

I'm not sure why you brought up the first half of your post, but I fully agree.

I wasn't speaking on DA:O classes compared to DAII; I was just looking at DAII classes.

I didn't miss any points. I agree, mostly; I didn't really take advantage of DA:O's class mixes deliberately, it was a roleplaying thing. You, however, did miss something in her post. She said on Nightmare cross-class combos are effective and really to be taken advantage of. But on Normal and Hard modes, I kicked ass with a predominantly rogue party; my main Hawke(a rogue), his plaything Isabella, his right hand Varric, and Aveline, a human shield. All I'm saying is that a balanced party and fully-realized class mechanics shouldn't just be appealing because of a higher difficulty.

[Jerrybnsn]

DA2 had moments of great story telling in it, but it never came off as a complete story. More like a bunch of dlc filled in with mindless fetch quests in repeating enviroments. We had a conclusion given to us in the begining of the game, but no plotline to move us along. So, to me at least, it was one of the more boring games I have played this year. I've played Origins twice since purchasing DA2, which I only played once. I might play it again if I believe that my decisions starting from the first game will eventually matter in DAIII.

Edit: After reading down below, I have to add that I was turned off on the demo with the exploding bodies and button mashing used in combat.  I made it a point not to purchase DAII until they had the patch that allowed me to avoid that.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 09 décembre 2011 - 11:51 .

[Big I]

Looking back, my problems with the DA2 story still come down to 1) insufficient context/explanation (e.g. why a family of apostate mages stays in Templar central after the Blight) and 2) Act 3.


From a gameplay perspective Bioware shipped a very buggy game. No auto attack on console, a rebalancing of classes and gameplay in a patch (e.g. fortitude bonus of Force Mage), import problems etc. That sort of thing can't help but detract from a persons enjoyment. Even after the patches combat in DA2 is still something I never really enjoyed; for instance, if talking about the game to someone I would never say "I recommend the combat in DA2."


Setting (Kirkwall) and reuse of resources (caves) has been done to death, no need to rehash them. Stil valid though.

Modifié par LookingGlass93, 09 décembre 2011 - 11:42 .

[Fylimar]

I played DAO first and it's one of my favorite games. I wasn't very excited about DA2 because I couldn't choose a race (that's important to me, as I normally don't play humans very often - I am human in RL, that's enough). But I end up loving DA2 as much as the first game despite it's obviou flaws. I liked the conficts in Krikwall - it wasn't about end of the world, but normal political and religious disagreements, the companions are great, the dialogues fun and I love FHawkes voice. So apart from the end of act 3 (and the lack of race choosing), I'm mostly content with the game.
What I would wish to see in the next games would be more different types of NPCs - every inhabitant of Kirkwall and Ferelden seems to be a model with a perfect body and good hair (even in the slums) - that's a little boring.

[Darth Death]

DA2 always felt like an expansion pack than a sequel. Probably would've been better that way.

[HanErlik]

Looking back, did your opinions on Daikatana change after years?

Mediocre game is mediocre lads, time will not change it.

[ioannisdenton]

on my first playthrough i was kinda dissapointted but overall i thought it was not a bad game.
on my second playthrough i thought "ok now, this IS bad and most dissapointing" but still did not regret playing this game.

[alex90c]

Blinded by my love of DA, when I finished DA2 I thought it was a great game, then completed it 2 more times for each personality.

It was only when I went on to BSN, gave myself a lot of time to think about the game and took a look at other peoples views that I actually realised DA2 was just a giant pile of sh*t and was no longer willing to overlook the flaws. Sure, the Arishok sounds cool but he was just another (of many) case of idiocy in Kirkwall, sitting on his arse doing nothing for three years, and then when attacking the city rather than sending his men to defend Hightown at the steps as a chokepoint, you only get attacked when you first enter Hightown in the first plaza where a load of random mooks attack you, followed later on by another utterly pointless Qunari vs. Dwarves battle further up.

The more and more I thought about the game, it was just impossible for me to overlook the flaws, and now here I am, loathing the game with every inch of my being and actually moved on to become a Mass Effect fan instead.

[Persephone]

Considering that I am still playing it 10+ playthroughs later should show how much I still enjoy it.

I love the characters, the combat, the story...a great deal.

Several issues I had with it were fixed by Patch 1.03 and the DLC are magnificent.

I have yet to be "enlightened" by the BSN or any other crowd just how my opinion that DAII is superior to DAO where it matters to ME is wrong.

With all the bandwagon hopping going around, I find it very hard to actually be convinced by any of the negativity. And besides.... It's been what....? 9 months? I never ever wasted so much time one ANY game (!) I hated. And don't give me the "I hate on DAII because I care for the franchise and/or DAO!" line. Not buying it.

So...DAII

I love it. Is it a flawed game? Yes. Just as DAO is. Both games were very unpolished in many ways. (In DAO it was character development and party dynamics that were non existant) 

Do I prefer them to TW2, Skyrim etc.?

YES.

[Plaintiff]

Persephone wrote...

Considering that I am still playing it 10+ playthroughs later should show how much I still enjoy it.

I've completed DA2 at least five times, and only completed Origins once. In fact, it took me several total reboots to even finish Origins the first time. Twice that I remember, I got all the way to the Landsmeet and gave up. I'm not sure why. I do the same with Final Fantasy games, I don't want to finish them, for some reason.

After the first completion, I started several new games and didn't get very far in any of them. I tried Dalish Elf Origin (twice) and Human Mage origin and I didn't get far with either of them because I got bored so quickly. I never played Dwarf because they just don't appeal to me at all. It's not that I don't love the story, because I do, but it's such a slog, with really long sequences (looking at you, Lost in Dreams and The Deep Roads) that are just really dull. And honestly, to me it feels like there's less plot variation over all. Even if DA2 ends the same no matter what I do, I just find the journey so much more engaging.

I'm determined to do my current Origins playthrough (Human Noble, which I keep coming back to for some reason), but only because I intend to import this game as my "canon" save for DA2. I've been meaning to make a few small tweaks (have hardened Alistair rule alone, save Amaranthine, kill the Architect), but I was just too lazy.

I'm actually planning a future four games of DA2 after this, because I only recently bought the item packs and Legacy/MotA DLC, and I want to explore Legacy in particular with both siblings in both possible outcomes. I'll probably play them a few more times after that just to hear all the party banter. XD 

I'll have to do without Sebastian's, though, because I'm never, ever going to execute Anders. He's my canon romance, the chantry can go **** itself.

But I have it on good authority that I'm getting the Fallout games for Christmas (they come highy recommended from friends, but I just never got around to buying them), so it may be a while yet before any of this comes to fruition. XD

Modifié par Plaintiff, 09 décembre 2011 - 05:16 .

[Persephone]

Plaintiff wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Considering that I am still playing it 10+ playthroughs later should show how much I still enjoy it.

I've completed DA2 at least five times, and only completed Origins once. In fact, it took me several total reboots to even finish Origins the first time. Twice that I remember, I got all the way to the Landsmeet and gave up. I'm not sure why. I do the same with Final Fantasy games, I don't want to finish them, for some reason.

After the first completion, I started several new games and didn't get very far in any of them. I tried Dalish Elf Origin (twice) and Human Mage origin and I didn't get far with either of them because I got bored so quickly. I never played Dwarf because they just don't appeal to me at all. It's not that I don't love the story, because I do, but it's such a slog, with really long sequences (looking at you, Lost in Dreams and The Deep Roads) that are just really dull. I'm determined to do my current playthrough (Human Noble, which I keep coming back to for some reason), but only because I intend to import this game as my "canon" save for DA2.

I'm actually planning a future four games of DA2 after this, because I only recently bought the item packs and Legacy/MotA DLC, and I want to explore Legacy in particular with both siblings in both possible outcomes. I'll probably play them a few more times after that just to hear all the party banter. XD 

I'll have to do without Sebastian's, though, because I'm never, ever going to execute Anders. He's my canon romance, the chantry can go **** itself.

While I finished DAO several times, this sounds bloody familiar. Most of my recent DAO playthroughs died once Ostagar reared its boring head.

Oh, and you can still get Seb's banter in MOTA and Legacy, just do it before Anders....you know what.

And agreed re: Anders.

I do enjoy many aspects of the other romances (daaaaaaaamn, Fenris sure gets the best kisses...ahem....shallow...yeah...uh) , I usually always end up with Anders. His Rivalmance tears my heart to pieces while his Friendlymance made me weep buckets.

[RagingCyclone]

Looking back...I'm back to playing Origins (for a 16th time) and writing fic for that game while DA2 collects dust (after 6 playthroughs) until the next story based dlc comes out.

DA2 I feel had a lot of wasted potential. The overall story was a great concept but poorly presented with too many plot-holes. It was weaker and shorter with a lot of step and fetch quests added to give the appearance of being larger in scope than it really is. For many players (not all...keep that in mind) felt little or no player agency in the storyline. Hawke in many instances was a spectator and not a real participant. This has been an argument against Hawke and one that I can agree with to a certain extent. I also felt this game was more focused on the companions which I liked since it was set in a single city. (this is really not a bad concept, just had poor implementation with reused areas making the city seem smaller than it actually was) My problem with the last part, however, was the companion focus was more romance driven for the LI's than it should have been. In Origins one did not have to romance Morrigan to learn a great deal of her character. The same cannot be said of a character like Fenris. Because of this character depth and scope, especially for the companions, was much lighter and held more "fluff" than those of DAO.

Graphics-wise DA2 has some shining moments. The biggest issue the main game has is horrible lighting. While the dlc's have corrected this issue, the main game had too many variances in the lighting. As an amateur photographer this annoyed me to no end. This combined with bad facial designs was just a bad...bad...bad..bad call by the devs. When I look at the thread for sharing custom Hawke faces I see little or no difference between any of them. I modded a lot of faces for Origins and got pretty decent at adjusting the bone structure of a face. DA2 lacks those difference, so when hair/skin tone/makeup is removed the faces, especially human females, all fit into 3 basic shapes. Sorry, but facial features when taking in bone structure are much more varied than this style allowed.

Lastly DA2 lacked ambiance. Sure there were people milling about and talking, but where were the animals? Where were the birds, cats, dogs, and children playing? Why did none of the banners flow in the breeze? Origins had all of these things and the world felt alive. DA2 skipped on these and it felt static and dead.

In conclusion...when DA2 first came out I gave it a 7/8 out of 10 compared to Origins' 9 out of 10. Today...I have seen nothing that changes my original opinion except when I look at the dlc's. Both I would rate as 8/9 out of 10. Had the main game had the similar elements and time in development that the dlc's did (keep in mind that obviously less time is needed to develop a dlc over a full game so I am talking proportionally here) DA2 had potential to reach that same mark as Origins. It just has too many flaws to reach that level.

[Plaintiff]

Persephone wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Considering that I am still playing it 10+ playthroughs later should show how much I still enjoy it.

I've completed DA2 at least five times, and only completed Origins once. In fact, it took me several total reboots to even finish Origins the first time. Twice that I remember, I got all the way to the Landsmeet and gave up. I'm not sure why. I do the same with Final Fantasy games, I don't want to finish them, for some reason.

After the first completion, I started several new games and didn't get very far in any of them. I tried Dalish Elf Origin (twice) and Human Mage origin and I didn't get far with either of them because I got bored so quickly. I never played Dwarf because they just don't appeal to me at all. It's not that I don't love the story, because I do, but it's such a slog, with really long sequences (looking at you, Lost in Dreams and The Deep Roads) that are just really dull. I'm determined to do my current playthrough (Human Noble, which I keep coming back to for some reason), but only because I intend to import this game as my "canon" save for DA2.

I'm actually planning a future four games of DA2 after this, because I only recently bought the item packs and Legacy/MotA DLC, and I want to explore Legacy in particular with both siblings in both possible outcomes. I'll probably play them a few more times after that just to hear all the party banter. XD 

I'll have to do without Sebastian's, though, because I'm never, ever going to execute Anders. He's my canon romance, the chantry can go **** itself.

While I finished DAO several times, this sounds bloody familiar. Most of my recent DAO playthroughs died once Ostagar reared its boring head.

Oh, and you can still get Seb's banter in MOTA and Legacy, just do it before Anders....you know what.

And agreed re: Anders.

I do enjoy many aspects of the other romances (daaaaaaaamn, Fenris sure gets the best kisses...ahem....shallow...yeah...uh) , I usually always end up with Anders. His Rivalmance tears my heart to pieces while his Friendlymance made me weep buckets.

I did a playthrough where I slept with Fenris and Isabela first, just because, but I keep coming back to Anders. Something about bi/homosexual healer-types just really pushes my buttons. Looking through the possible companions for Fallout: New Vegas, which I hope to get my hands on soon, I already find myself drawn to a doctor who is hinted to be gay, even though romances don't actually exist in the Fallout games at all. XD

[Mr.House]

I still enjoy playing DA2.

[Slayer299]

9 mos later and time hasn't changed my view on DA2 and the problems I found to make the game extremely unpalatable. Bioware has put out several patches to address abilities and exploding bodies, etc, but those won't be changing what I see as fatal flaws in DA2 and would make it fun and playable for me.

[Fox In The Box]

I'm a very picky gamer who rarely get past the first third of the games I'm playing, while obsessing like a mad penguin over a very select few games. Dragon Age 2 falls in the latter category for me - I still enjoy it almost as much as I did when I first got it.

Plaintiff wrote...

I did a playthrough where I slept with Fenris and Isabela first, just because, but I keep coming back to Anders. Something about bi/homosexual healer-types just really pushes my buttons. Looking through the possible companions for Fallout: New Vegas, which I hope to get my hands on soon, I already find myself drawn to a doctor who is hinted to be gay, even though romances don't actually exist in the Fallout games at all. XD

Oh, you have something to look forward to. Even though romances don't exist, there might be room for some flirting.

Modifié par Fox In The Box, 09 décembre 2011 - 05:53 .

[1varangian]

I've got some sympathy for you.

After Origins I wanted the DA franchise get even more real, gritty, more choice and tactical depth into the battles. (i.e. mortal companions, limited magic use)

Instead it became a lame cartoon romp only a 10 year old might still find cool. Spin kicking the flasks pretty much sums it up. Only those aren't actual flasks but talents that materialize unlimited amounts of said 'flasks'. Interesting rules that provided tactical depth like Armor Penetration were cut in favor or mindless combat for casual gamers... I'll just stop here.

I like my RPGs realistic, believable and challenging instead of light and gamey.

And bring back actual RPG stats for PCs a la D&D instead of the meaningless linear progression of both DA games.

[Persephone]

1varangian wrote...

I've got some sympathy for you.

After Origins I wanted the DA franchise get even more real, gritty, more choice and tactical depth into the battles. (i.e. mortal companions, limited magic use)

Instead it became a lame cartoon romp only a 10 year old might still find cool.

You thought DAO was real, gritty (REALLY?) and tactical? Um...ok.

Speak for yourself and no, generalizations don't really mean a thing. They are just rude, pointless and uncalled for.

I am 31 btw, have played RPGs and LARPed (ACTUAL ROLE playing, ya know? Not just sitting in front of a screen) , table-topped etc. for 15+ years. I adore DAII, prefer it to DAO and OMG, think it's a better RPG than DAO as well.

[bEVEsthda]

I don't think my feelings about the game have changed much. I haven't played it for  a long time. I only played through it once.
But I do think I've become more bitter, but also less angry. I'm less angry, because the future of DA is still in the open. I'm more bitter, because I feel more than ever that those changes, I dislike most, are so ununderstandable and  unnecessary. 'Thoughtless.', comes to mind.

[Realmzmaster]

1varangian wrote...

And bring back actual RPG stats for PCs a la D&D instead of the meaningless linear progression of both DA games.

Last time I check the stats used in D & D  have equivalents in DA. Strength, Dexterity, Constitution are the same. Cunning, Magic and Willpower are the equivalents for Chrisma, Wisdom and Intelligence. So there are actual roleplaying stats. Differnt RPG systems use different names to represent the same attribute.

P. S. I am not a ten year old. I was playing RPGs and cRPGs when many on this forum were in diapers. I like DA2 and I will be romping for some time to come.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 09 décembre 2011 - 06:46 .

[Merilsell]

Nine months later, I have forgotten about this game existence... or rather my level of indifference toward it and its characters had never been higher. DA2 is for me one of these mediocre games I played through once, shrugged and put it in a corner to let it collect dust. I simply can't bring the amount or effort to care for it anymore.

But then again, that is valid for anything Dragon Age that came after DA:O *shrug*

[John Epler]

If you want to continue this discussion without the pointless ad hominems (and yes, 'Instead it became a lame cartoon romp only a 10 year old might still find cool.' falls under that category), please feel free, as long as you continue to respect the opinions of those who disagree with you.

If you feel that making sure the world knows just how much classier and intelligent you think you are than those who dared to enjoy the game is super important, please, continue down that road, and you will quickly discover why, in this case, heeding Robert Frost's advice may be a poor decision.

[DreamwareStudio]

1varangian wrote...

I've got some sympathy for you.

After Origins I wanted the DA franchise get even more real, gritty, more choice and tactical depth into the battles. (i.e. mortal companions, limited magic use)

Instead it became a lame cartoon romp only a 10 year old might still find cool. Spin kicking the flasks pretty much sums it up. Only those aren't actual flasks but talents that materialize unlimited amounts of said 'flasks'. Interesting rules that provided tactical depth like Armor Penetration were cut in favor or mindless combat for casual gamers... I'll just stop here.

I like my RPGs realistic, believable and challenging instead of light and gamey.

And bring back actual RPG stats for PCs a la D&D instead of the meaningless linear progression of both DA games.

As someone yet to play DA 2 (will be here tomorrow), the above worries me, especially the cartoonishness because of immersion.

[Persephone]

google_calasade wrote...

1varangian wrote...

I've got some sympathy for you.

After Origins I wanted the DA franchise get even more real, gritty, more choice and tactical depth into the battles. (i.e. mortal companions, limited magic use)

Instead it became a lame cartoon romp only a 10 year old might still find cool. Spin kicking the flasks pretty much sums it up. Only those aren't actual flasks but talents that materialize unlimited amounts of said 'flasks'. Interesting rules that provided tactical depth like Armor Penetration were cut in favor or mindless combat for casual gamers... I'll just stop here.

I like my RPGs realistic, believable and challenging instead of light and gamey.

And bring back actual RPG stats for PCs a la D&D instead of the meaningless linear progression of both DA games.

As someone yet to play DA 2 (will be here tomorrow), the above worries me, especially the cartoonishness because of immersion.

Just keep an open mind and go into the game without any preset second hand opinions. :happy:

[Deathwurm]

Months later I look back and still find I enjoyed the Game and know I'll be playing it through at least a second time.