314 réponses à ce sujet

[TheRealJayDee]

Plaintiff wrote...

I disagree entirely. If any bias exists, I found it to be totally in favour of mages.

Care to elaborate?

[Gunderic]

Ciryx wrote...

Gunderic wrote...

The game is bad, and it's not a matter of why and how. Every problem the franchise now faces can be traced back at its current lead designer, Mike Laidlaw.

a) Considering the time they had to develop DA 2 he did an amazing job.
The things that got improved really are better then in DA 1

nope.

Ciryx wrote...

c) If you think Mike Laidlaw can afford to run a one-man-show ala George Lucas on Episode 1 you clearly have no clue about game production. At all.

I didn't say he runs a one-man show; I said it's the fault of the man in charge. Big difference.

And EA, for appointing him as lead designer.

Modifié par Gunderic, 11 décembre 2011 - 01:29 .

[TheRogueAmigo]

Plaintiff wrote...

TheRogueAmigo wrote...
 and have you ever had vanilolate cake? No? Neither have I. And there is probably a good reason for that.

It's called "marble cake" and it is delicious.

Damn it............ Well played Plaintiff, well played. Well I'm from Ireland and this doesn't exist yet (On a side note guys what do the little images beside my thread mean? There's a bioware tag underneath it now...... Just wondering what the flame and different coloured paper image etc mean

Modifié par TheRogueAmigo, 11 décembre 2011 - 02:13 .

[Plaintiff]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I disagree entirely. If any bias exists, I found it to be totally in favour of mages.

Care to elaborate?

Well, for starters, "Every mage we meet is an insane maleficar" doesn't really hold water with me because Hawke is a mercenary, the people he encounters are going to be dangerous. I don't think it justifies Meredith's paranoia in the least. The fact that Kirkwall is swarming with bloodmages, if anything, serves only to highlight her absolute failure. She's hunting for monsters under her bed and tormenting the innocent, while the real criminals have the run of the streets.

Some mages resort to pretty terrible things, but I don't see why they should be expected to have sympathy for others when it is denied them by society at large. particularly for their captors. Thrask and Keran are the only two who are shown to genuinely give a **** about the mages under their care, and frankly, it's too little, too late.The other templars are just as bad as the mages are. Obviously Alrik isn't the only one in on the rape gig, since he has other templars with him to apprehend Ella. Ser Karras, if left to live is revealed to have raped Alain repeatedly. If killed, that task falls to other templars who are not specified. A passing comment from a tranquil reveals that the tranquil mages running stalls are beaten if they get robbed. In Act 2, if Feynriel is sent to the Dalish, templars head to Sundermount and are accused of torturing da'len (elven children) to get information, which they don't even deny; the female templar leading the group says "it was necessary". There are more examples, but I need to replay the game. Basically, what it comes down to for me is that mages become monsters through possession, but templars have no such excuse.

I can't blame anyone for using all the tools at their disposal (blood magic included) to get out of what is basically a fancy prison where they might endure any amount of psychological and physical torment. As Hawke says if you choose to argue against Cullen, mages have been systematically abused for the past thousand years. The mages have been pushed to extremes, they can't be reasonably be judged by their actions. The very definition of "extreme" is that it's not their usual behaviour.

It seems pretty clear to me that the Circle system is fundamentally flawed, and I don't see how anyone can deny this, no matter what side of the debate they fall on. Cullen's attitude; that mages "can't be treated like people", is implicitly endorsing the abuses of his fellow templars (whether he's aware of them or not). And it's total hypocrisy. From a young age, mages are raised in an environment of alienation and abuse, and they're expected to grow up normal? What complete ****ing retard thought this was a good idea? It doesn't surprise me in the least that we run into so many crazed mages. What surprises me is that we run into any sane ones at all. And I think it's extremely telling that of the... eight (?) extremely sane and capable mage party members present in the series to date, six are apostates, only three are circle-trained at all, and only two (Wynne and Finn) actually liked it there, and "like" isn't exactly an accurate word, since Wynne at least is still extremely aware of the abuses of the templars and chantry, having witnessed them first-hand, in the supposedly "more lenient" circle of Ferelden.

Cullen's attitude, the same attitude of the Chantry and the templars at large, is exactly the wrong one to have. Treating mages like monsters will only ensure that that is what they grow up to be. Mages, if anything, need to be treated with a greater deal of sensitivity and care than any normal human, because emotional distress (ie; what you might feel after being torn away from your family by strangers and raped for the next few years) makes them exponentially more susceptible to demonic possession.

I won't deny that the mages in DA2 commit many atrocities, but I have yet to see one good reason why they should give half a **** about a world that clearly doesn't extend them the same courtesy, and never has. They aren't allowed families or freedom or love. All the things that make life worth living are denied to them, so what good reason is there to keep them from sacrificing their free will to a demon in exchange for the power to make the world burn?

Modifié par Plaintiff, 11 décembre 2011 - 03:06 .

[ioannisdenton]

Ok. i just reinstalled Dragon age origins. last time i played it was one year ago in november, meaning i did not got a look at it after playing DA2.
Beggining a new game again (4 time in origins) made me realise HOW AWFUL DA2 is.
Seriously Even the loading screens are better in DAO, even the Font is more appropriate.
As for artstyle , i won't even start.
I am selling my original copy of DAO and i am getting DA ultimate edition.
as for DA2 i really hate my self for playing this game twice.
It is beyond me how actually there are people who like da2 more.
BIOWARE return to your roots please, it is US the loyal fans from BG, KOTOR era that support you. All these people who like DA2 (which i BET are newcomers a) do not even know how good DAO Felt back in 2009 and how good FEELS again after DA2. all these people propably are easygoing gamers. (i am not talking about "hardcore crap" gamers but for peopel who ACTUALLY like rpgs.
i am so pissed right now, how can anyone support DA2?? DO you actually like rpgs after all? this is beyond me. DA2 does everything wrong.. JUST re-play DAO.
EVEN the Voiced protagonist is off. Bring back silent protagonist and lots of responses please.
Do not stramline your games for "easygoing" gamers.
It is Us who support you , the "born in 1975-1985" people who really appreciate these kind of games (rpgs) and not some action fighting GoW, Bayonetta, CoD, games.
P.S i know i am harsh and sound like a d@#che but that is the way i feel.

[Gunderic]

TheRogueAmigo wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

TheRogueAmigo wrote...
 and have you ever had vanilolate cake? No? Neither have I. And there is probably a good reason for that.

It's called "marble cake" and it is delicious.

Damn it............ Well played Plaintiff, well played. Well I'm from Ireland and this doesn't exist yet (On a side note guys what do the little images beside my thread mean? There's a bioware tag underneath it now...... Just wondering what the flame and different coloured paper image etc mean

That looks very similar to a 'cozonac'. 

[Plaintiff]

ioannisdenton wrote...

Ok. i just reinstalled Dragon age origins. last time i played it was one year ago in november, meaning i did not got a look at it after playing DA2.
Beggining a new game again (4 time in origins) made me realise HOW AWFUL DA2 is.
Seriously Even the loading screens are better in DAO, even the Font is more appropriate.
As for artstyle , i won't even start.
I am selling my original copy of DAO and i am getting DA ultimate edition.
as for DA2 i really hate my self for playing this game twice.
It is beyond me how actually there are people who like da2 more.
BIOWARE return to your roots please, it is US the loyal fans from BG, KOTOR era that support you. All these people who like DA2 (which i BET are newcomers a) do not even know how good DAO Felt back in 2009 and how good FEELS again after DA2. all these people propably are easygoing gamers. (i am not talking about "hardcore crap" gamers but for peopel who ACTUALLY like rpgs.
i am so pissed right now, how can anyone support DA2?? DO you actually like rpgs after all? this is beyond me. DA2 does everything wrong.. JUST re-play DAO.
EVEN the Voiced protagonist is off. Bring back silent protagonist and lots of responses please.
Do not stramline your games for "easygoing" gamers.
It is Us who support you , the "born in 1975-1985" people who really appreciate these kind of games (rpgs) and not some action fighting GoW, Bayonetta, CoD, games.
P.S i know i am harsh and sound like a d@#che but that is the way i feel.

Because people are only allowed to like one game genre?

I like RPGs, I play a fair few, I am replaying DAO as we speak, and I prefer DA2 immensely.

At least you're aware of how you come across.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 11 décembre 2011 - 03:04 .

[Aaleel]

silentassassin264 wrote...



Not angry because they did Mage vs. Templar, angry because I knew how it would turn out. I attempted to have a debate about the subject with David Gaider in one of the later Mage vs. Templar debate threads. The "debate" pretty much went along the line of Gaider doing the Nanana not listening to you which boded...not very well. Sure enough, DA2 picks a big serious issue and then portrays it as immaturely as it can possibly do. The mages in DA2 are pretty much all childish psychopaths and the game goes out of it way to make them as irredeemable as it can. Even when they are not insane like Merrill, the game still tries to portray her as a big **** up even though she did absolutely nothing wrong. The game even goes for the gut punch with a psycho mage killing someone close to you. If you side with the templars you get to be viscount, whereas siding with the mages leaves you a fugitive having to abandon everything that is not presently on your back as you flee Kirkwall (though given a headstart. Thanks Cullen). In the end the only templar you encounter who is evil to match the psychopathy of the mages is Ser Alrik. Meredith is actually right along considering who "O" was and rightly paranoid (though incorrect about Hawke at the end).

In other words, we have a nice grey and gray morality situation and the game spends the whole time trying to shove "mages are bad" down your throat. Of course the Band of three codex explains that Kirkwall was an anomaly due to some dark magic. Naturally that is the stupidest thing in the world to stage what should be a nice grey morality debate in a black and white world but at least Legacy could remedy that... Except they use that to take another shot a mages confirming the Chantry story of darkspawn and then basically saying that mages are such dangerous tools that they are no better than a blighted ghoul.

 

I think that they made the mages so over the top bad because if the mages were sympathetic in any way, it wouldn't really be a choice.  Mages in the Circle I can understand turning to blood magic or other means to try and escape.

But the ones that got me were the mages that escaped the circle, were free and clear but still commited atrocities.  The one that killed his wife just made me shake my head.  Then the way you were repaid by the mages you helped earlier in the game was nonsense as well.

BUT...if you found enough codex entries, there was one that explained how the veil was thin in Kirkwall due to the tevinter and all the suffering that went on there.  How the mages of Kirkwall fail the Harrowing at a rate far higher than other circles.  It also said that even non mage humans had contact with demons to some degree.

Why was this not common knowledge?  Because again, they didn't want them to be sympathetic, they had to be crazy so that choice was black and white. 

My question, in Origins, your mage could tell if they were in a place where the veil was thin.  But somehow in DA2 all the mages somehow can't sense this is what is obviously a much more severe case.  Ironically it was a templar who figured this out.

Edit:  Also in Origins Blood magic was a tool not a disease, which was kind of what DA2 made it.  Someone like Jowan in Origins used blood magic when he needed it, but he just didn't go crazy like the mages in DA2 once they delved into it.

Modifié par Aaleel, 11 décembre 2011 - 03:22 .

[Persephone]

ioannisdenton wrote...

BIOWARE return to your roots please, it is US the loyal fans from BG, KOTOR era that support you. All these people who like DA2 (which i BET are newcomers a) do not even know how good DAO Felt back in 2009 and how good FEELS again after DA2. all these people propably are easygoing gamers. (i am not talking about "hardcore crap" gamers but for peopel who ACTUALLY like rpgs.
i am so pissed right now, how can anyone support DA2?? DO you actually like rpgs after all? this is beyond me. DA2 does everything wrong.. JUST re-play DAO.
EVEN the Voiced protagonist is off. Bring back silent protagonist and lots of responses please.
Do not stramline your games for "easygoing" gamers.
It is Us who support you , the "born in 1975-1985" people who really appreciate these kind of games (rpgs) and not some action fighting GoW, Bayonetta, CoD, games.
P.S i know i am harsh and sound like a d@#che but that is the way i feel.

And you're wrong too but never mind that.

I am not a newcomer.

I have played DAO in 2009. Still play it today.

I'm fairly easy-going. sure. Is that bad?

You can support DAII if...you enjoyed it. I did and still do so. Everything wrong? Really?

I don't want to replay Sacred Co.... Er...DAO. :innocent:

I was born in 1980.

I have never played GOW, COD OR BAYONETTA. So...what's your point? And DAII has nada in common with them. Are we done with this myth any time soon?

And even if gamers who like DAII DID play these games, what right do self proclaimed ARRPGEEEE  (RPG....yeah....)  fans have to turn up their snobby noses at them? 

[Zjarcal]

ioannisdenton wrote...

Ok. i just reinstalled Dragon age origins. last time i played it was one year ago in november, meaning i did not got a look at it after playing DA2.
Beggining a new game again (4 time in origins) made me realise HOW AWFUL DA2 is.
Seriously Even the loading screens are better in DAO, even the Font is more appropriate.
As for artstyle , i won't even start.
I am selling my original copy of DAO and i am getting DA ultimate edition.
as for DA2 i really hate my self for playing this game twice.
It is beyond me how actually there are people who like da2 more.
BIOWARE return to your roots please, it is US the loyal fans from BG, KOTOR era that support you. All these people who like DA2 (which i BET are newcomers a) do not even know how good DAO Felt back in 2009 and how good FEELS again after DA2. all these people propably are easygoing gamers. (i am not talking about "hardcore crap" gamers but for peopel who ACTUALLY like rpgs.
i am so pissed right now, how can anyone support DA2?? DO you actually like rpgs after all? this is beyond me. DA2 does everything wrong.. JUST re-play DAO.
EVEN the Voiced protagonist is off. Bring back silent protagonist and lots of responses please.
Do not stramline your games for "easygoing" gamers.
It is Us who support you , the "born in 1975-1985" people who really appreciate these kind of games (rpgs) and not some action fighting GoW, Bayonetta, CoD, games.
P.S i know i am harsh and sound like a d@#che but that is the way i feel.

LOL! The stupid is strong in this one.

[jlb524]

Ah yes, the 'DA2 sucks because it was nothing like <insert 'old school' RPG here> even though DA:O was nothing like <insert 'old school' RPG here> but I'll ignore that' rant.

Modifié par jlb524, 11 décembre 2011 - 05:04 .

[HiroVoid]

It was pretty much the fact that it was completely different from Dragon Age: Origins that's part of the problem.

[jlb524]

HiroVoid wrote...
It was pretty much the fact that it was completely different from Dragon Age: Origins that's part of the problem.

For some people...I thought that was one of DA2's better qualities.

[Mr.House]

HiroVoid wrote...

It was pretty much the fact that it was completely different from Dragon Age: Origins that's part of the problem.

Didn't really feel that diffrent to me.

Modifié par Mr.House, 11 décembre 2011 - 05:16 .

[Akka le Vil]

jlb524 wrote...

Ah yes, the 'DA2 sucks because it was nothing like <insert 'old school' RPG here> even though DA:O was nothing like <insert 'old school' RPG here> but I'll ignore that' rant.

Because if DAO had a flaw, and DA2 had the same, then it suddendly isn't a flaw that we're allowed to dislike anymore ?

That for sure makes a lot of sense.

[Rawgrim]

I am reminded of the Ultima series by Origin. Those games were doing great for 10 years at least. Then EA bought the company, and Ultima IX came out. Arguably one of the most hated rpgs ever made. It was streamlined, rushed, and turned into more of an action game. I have a sneaking suspicion that the DA franchise is heading in the same direction.

[jlb524]

Akka le Vil wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Ah yes, the 'DA2 sucks because it was nothing like <insert 'old school' RPG here> even though DA:O was nothing like <insert 'old school' RPG here> but I'll ignore that' rant.

Because if DAO had a flaw, and DA2 had the same, then it suddendly isn't a flaw that we're allowed to dislike anymore ?

That for sure makes a lot of sense.

I think you missed the point.

No one talks about it as a 'DA:O' flaw.  DA:O can do no wrong but DA2 is a complete failure.

[HiroVoid]

jlb524 wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...
It was pretty much the fact that it was completely different from Dragon Age: Origins that's part of the problem.

For some people...I thought that was one of DA2's better qualities.

I can understand that for some people, but when you hear a sequel's being made, you usually expect it to be similar to the previous work like how while Mass Effect may be partially different in each sequence, it never really strays too far from how the previous game was.  When a game becomes too different, many fans may not like it anymore due to it no longer being what they liked about the previous game.

[hoorayforicecream]

HiroVoid wrote...

It was pretty much the fact that it was completely different from Dragon Age: Origins that's part of the problem.

The gameplay was mostly an evolution. If you look at the combat, the level-up system and the basic mechanics, it's easy to see that they are extremely similar.

You still maintain a team of four, but class combos are now much more emphasized, combat speed has been sped up and made more responsive, classes are more differentiated, talent choices and builds require more planning, the horrendous gift-giving system has been significantly changed, and now there's an actual basis for disagreeing with your follower without driving him or her out of the party.

But whatever. Completely different, robble robble.

[Mr.House]

The fact that guy says DAO had better loading screens just makes his post more stupid. DAO had one loading screen, a very boring one at that when DA2 had over ten, interesting and well done loading screens.

[Aaleel]

HiroVoid wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...
It was pretty much the fact that it was completely different from Dragon Age: Origins that's part of the problem.

For some people...I thought that was one of DA2's better qualities.

I can understand that for some people, but when you hear a sequel's being made, you usually expect it to be similar to the previous work like how while Mass Effect may be partially different in each sequence, it never really strays too far from how the previous game was.  When a game becomes too different, many fans may not like it anymore due to it no longer being what they liked about the previous game.

Well from me, after I read interviews and other things about the game, I knew it was going to be nothing like Origins.  The problem for was that DA2 didn't do the hthings it was trying to do well which resulted in the game not being fun to play.

At the end of the day I play games for fun, and I just didn't, and still don't find the game fun or engaging.

[jlb524]

HiroVoid wrote...
I can understand that for some people, but when you hear a sequel's being made, you usually expect it to be similar to the previous work like how while Mass Effect may be partially different in each sequence, it never really strays too far from how the previous game was.  When a game becomes too different, many fans may not like it anymore due to it no longer being what they liked about the previous game.

Like the Elder Scrolls series?

I think DA2 was similar to DA:O just as Skyrim was similar to Oblivion.

I just don't get why people say DA2 was so totally different...it was still a story/character focused, party-combat oriented RPG.  The lore stayed the same.  They changed the art style and combat but the core is still pretty much the same as DA:O.

They completely changed ME2's combat from ME1.  Though, they pretty much kept the art style between the two games except some characters got tweaked. 

[Gunderic]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

It was pretty much the fact that it was completely different from Dragon Age: Origins that's part of the problem.

The gameplay was mostly an evolution. If you look at the combat, the level-up system and the basic mechanics, it's easy to see that they are extremely similar.

trolling? 

[Mr.House]

Gunderic wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

It was pretty much the fact that it was completely different from Dragon Age: Origins that's part of the problem.

The gameplay was mostly an evolution. If you look at the combat, the level-up system and the basic mechanics, it's easy to see that they are extremely similar.

trolling? 

How is she trolling when she is in fact right?

[HiroVoid]

Aaleel wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...
It was pretty much the fact that it was completely different from Dragon Age: Origins that's part of the problem.

For some people...I thought that was one of DA2's better qualities.

I can understand that for some people, but when you hear a sequel's being made, you usually expect it to be similar to the previous work like how while Mass Effect may be partially different in each sequence, it never really strays too far from how the previous game was.  When a game becomes too different, many fans may not like it anymore due to it no longer being what they liked about the previous game.

Well from me, after I read interviews and other things about the game, I knew it was going to be nothing like Origins.  The problem for was that DA2 didn't do the hthings it was trying to do well which resulted in the game not being fun to play.

At the end of the day I play games for fun, and I just didn't, and still don't find the game fun or engaging.

And this is actually the bigger problem.  I truthfully don't want to go through a list, but to point out some things. 

`The city doesn't feel alive.  If you're going to focus the game mostly to one city, you need NPCs moving around, and more NPCs for me to interact with to make up for the fact that this is pretty much the main place I'm going to be for most of the game.  From what I can tell, the city never really changes whenever you go through a timeskip which is also really bad when you consider how you could end up changing the city's environments from new salesmen, add-ons to buildings, and other enhancements to the city.  They could've even adopted a system where previous choices could affect how certain areas will appear after a timeskip occurs. 

`I'm also not a fan of the dialogue wheel in this game.  Sometimes I'll want to make another choice because that's what I feel like I would say, but I end up having to either say that statement politely, humorously, or angrily cause that's how the dialogue wheel is set up at the moment. 

`A lot of the fetch quests are also horrible since I hate getting quests without really having a good reason other than I need money to do so.  For a comparison, in SWTOR, when you have to get some items, an NPC'll usually explain how they need these items for either wounded civilians or that an engine will blow that will cause water to be contaminated.  It's much more involving even though it's basically the same fetch quests. 

`For the rivalry/Friendship system, I'll admit that's an improvement.  A big problem for me with combat was just simply the *shivers* constant waves and waves of enemies coming out.  It got really annoying really quick.

Modifié par HiroVoid, 11 décembre 2011 - 05:34 .