343 réponses à ce sujet

[Durgon Ironfist]

Chris Priestly wrote...

You're welcome to discuss which you prefer, but you should know that we're using teh thermal clip system from ME2, not the overheat from ME1.

/Thread

Seriously I've seen this thread a total of 23 times and it only out numbered by the old planet scan threads. LET IT DIE.

P...S Soldier loves thermal clips. Overheat was easy to elimate entirely and combat in ME was a joke as a result.

[Random citizen]

I would like to have a dynamic hybrid system. There never was "unlimited ammo" that was just poor game-mechanics. (I have not read the books btw) So lets say one ammo block would contain 10.000 rounds (vs unarmored units) and that you can fire a couple of thousand rounds of continuous fire before overheating with a realistic cool-down mechanic (the closer you come to over-heating the hotter the gun gets). But you could also set you gun to maximum damage mode witch would work like the new thermal clip mechanics, but with a slow thermal clip cool-down relative to how much of it you have used up (if your clip is lets say 10 and you shoot 1 round, it regenerates to 10 within 5 sec, if you shot 2 rounds it regenerates one round per 6 sec, if you shoot 3 rounds it regenerates one round back per 8 sec, if you fire 4, it regenerates one round per 12 sec etc) So one weapon might have thousands of regenerating rounds that does very low damage (basically only effective against unshielded or very weak targets (especially those vulnerable to continues low effect fire) and 10 regenerating high efficiency rounds.

Modifié par Random citizen, 24 décembre 2011 - 07:09 .

[Praetor Knight]

Thermal Clips and an AMMO counter FTW!




I'd love to manage both.
Seriously, I would.

[Random citizen]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Thermal Clips and an AMMO counter FTW!




I'd love to manage both.
Seriously, I would.

It would not be that hard. If you overheat you just pop the heatsink/termal clip and insert a new (if you want to continue high energy fire otherwise you revert of "jessie-type fire mode"). If you run out of ammo, just insert a new ammo block

Modifié par Random citizen, 24 décembre 2011 - 07:28 .

[Get Magna Carter]

at least the addition of melee attacks means that a soldier/infiltrator Shep is no longer helpless after running out of clips

[Izhalezan]

Initial set number of clips that charge over time.. can find upgrades to increase number and improve charge time.

[Praetor Knight]

Random citizen wrote...

It would not be that hard. If you overheat you just pop the heatsink/termal clip and insert a new (if you want to continue high energy fire otherwise you revert of "jessie-type fire mode"). If you run out of ammo, just insert a new ammo block

Exactly.

[SykoWolf]

Clips are always better as explained in game, because with the addition of barriers, whoever can send the most rounds downrage in a limited time has the advantage.

[JonathonPR]

My ME1 Shep would disagree. Go play the moon base mission in ME1 again and see what happens. Imagine there are no convenient ammo drops or random piles. Play through ME2 missions realistically by not picking up ammo drops that would not make sense. Or try playing as a sniper. The lore explanation is a bad excuse to implement a mechanic intended to attract a different demographic. The rules are a simulation of how the world in a story works. When done properly you create immersion. The Vancian magic system from Dungeons & Dragons does not simulate how magic is described in many settings so many GMs write their own rules for the setting. The enjoyment of a game is not the sum of its part. It is how everything works together. Imagine that any other weapon or technology from another scifi setting changed. Change light sabers, change warp drives or other ftl, change force fields, or anything that was unique to a story and how things work. Companies do this to attract new customers from a different demographic at the risk of offending prior customers. Go look at Battletech and what happened after they introduced the clans or Dungeons and Dragons 4th edition. Trying new things at the expense of the original purchase qualifiers has ended many brands. If a car company removed cup holders and increased the acceleration of a minivan do you think soccer moms would be happy? What if the ground clearance was reduced on an off road vehicle but the sound system was improved?

[Praetor Knight]

JonathonPR wrote...

*snip*

Well, I'd recommend reading this article, to know how the change came about: www.gamesradar.com/the-making-of-mass-effect-2/



And at any rate, I just chalk it up as a gameplay versus lore.

[Random citizen]

JonathonPR wrote...

My ME1 Shep would disagree. Go play the moon base mission in ME1 again and see what happens. Imagine there are no convenient ammo drops or random piles. Play through ME2 missions realistically by not picking up ammo drops that would not make sense. Or try playing as a sniper. The lore explanation is a bad excuse to implement a mechanic intended to attract a different demographic. The rules are a simulation of how the world in a story works. When done properly you create immersion. The Vancian magic system from Dungeons & Dragons does not simulate how magic is described in many settings so many GMs write their own rules for the setting. The enjoyment of a game is not the sum of its part. It is how everything works together. Imagine that any other weapon or technology from another scifi setting changed. Change light sabers, change warp drives or other ftl, change force fields, or anything that was unique to a story and how things work. Companies do this to attract new customers from a different demographic at the risk of offending prior customers. Go look at Battletech and what happened after they introduced the clans or Dungeons and Dragons 4th edition. Trying new things at the expense of the original purchase qualifiers has ended many brands. If a car company removed cup holders and increased the acceleration of a minivan do you think soccer moms would be happy? What if the ground clearance was reduced on an off road vehicle but the sound system was improved?

I.. well I guess I agree with the general meaning of what you wrote.

[Aimi]

JonathonPR wrote...

The enjoyment of a game is not the sum of its part. It is how everything works together. Imagine that any other weapon or technology from another scifi setting changed. Change light sabers, change warp drives or other ftl, change force fields, or anything that was unique to a story and how things work. Companies do this to attract new customers from a different demographic at the risk of offending prior customers. Go look at Battletech and what happened after they introduced the clans or Dungeons and Dragons 4th edition. Trying new things at the expense of the original purchase qualifiers has ended many brands. If a car company removed cup holders and increased the acceleration of a minivan do you think soccer moms would be happy? What if the ground clearance was reduced on an off road vehicle but the sound system was improved?

BioWare's done this before. Remember KotOR? You could use solid-state blades with "cortosis ore" weave, which would let them resist a lightsaber?

Yeah, well, in the actual Star Wars canon, cortosis is a substance that actually shuts a lightsaber off when the latter encounters the former. It made Luke and Mara's expedition to Nirauan in the Hand of Thrawn duology a nightmare (a cortosis vein blocked a tunnel that they were using to get into the Hand fortress) and was the centerpiece of Shadday Potkin's effort to kill Darth Vader on Kessel during the Great Jedi Purge. If those KotOR swords had been made of canonical cortosis, they would've raped away most lightsaber-users' ability to fight. So they changed the way cortosis worked and simply made it a lightsaber-resistant material like phrik or beskar.

I'm pretty sure this actually made the game better, not worse. And it didn't kill the franchise. Same thing with heat sinks/clips, IMO.

[JonathonPR]

The kotor example does not work. In the kotor series did they start with the material affecting game play as it was described in lore or did it start with the mechanic you described? The first game in a series sets how close the game mechanic will simulate the lore. If the Mass Effect series had started with a standard ammo system the players would have expected the rest of the series to continue with the same level of simulation. There are many successful scifi and space opera series that do not use Newtonian physics when dealing with travel in space. The audience knows from the beginning how things work in the series. Star Wars is a good example of how a game can differentiate from lore and maintain consistency. The light saber is the most common example. In movies books and comics we know how most objects should react to being struck by the weapon. In many of the game series they are not always as devastating but each game series continues to simulate the lore with mechanics that are consistent to each game series. Imagine if there was a game used mechanics for light sabers that were identical to the lore. Now imagine if in the sequel that mechanic was changed and new lore was written to explain the change. For many this would be a disappointment and if the cost of the game represented a large portion of their entertainment budget they would likely become frustrated with the change if not angry. With every product line, brand, or series there are qualitative expectation that exist within a consumer base. Different demographics in that base purchase according to individual taste. You can probably think of a brand that competes with a brand you purchase that have a similar level of quality but the distribution resources expected in that product do not meet your own taste. It then should not be hard to imagine how a change in resource distribution could cause the brand you purchase to become undesirable. You may buy the first product created after a change because you rely on that brand and expect it continue to deliver products that perform like previous versions. Each brand has a venn diagrammed of demographics that purchase their products. The other demographics might prefer the redistribution resource quality in the brand.They might also be new consumers who are introduced to the brand with the new products. This can cause a change in long term profit patterns for a company. Many of the new consumers might like the product but not remain long term customers, or they might become the new long term target demographic. Preexisting long term customers can continue to purchase the product or they can leave for brands that make the products that meet what they want out of a product. This means that every change to a product affects long term consumer behavior. For consumers of IPs that are linked to a brand it can become disappointing to realize that unlike many other products that are supplied by many brands that the product cannot be acquired from a different brand that has the same distribution of quality of previous products.

[JonathonPR]

jreezy wrote...

daqs wrote...
BioWare's done this before. Remember KotOR? You could use solid-state blades with "cortosis ore" weave, which would let them resist a lightsaber?

Yeah, well, in the actual Star Wars canon, cortosis is a substance that actually shuts a lightsaber off when the latter encounters the former. It made Luke and Mara's expedition to Nirauan in the Hand of Thrawn duology a nightmare (a cortosis vein blocked a tunnel that they were using to get into the Hand fortress) and was the centerpiece of Shadday Potkin's effort to kill Darth Vader on Kessel during the Great Jedi Purge. If those KotOR swords had been made of canonical cortosis, they would've raped away most lightsaber-users' ability to fight. So they changed the way cortosis worked and simply made it a lightsaber-resistant material like phrik or beskar.

I'm pretty sure this actually made the game better, not worse. And it didn't kill the franchise. Same thing with heat sinks/clips, IMO.

This is a pretty good example that a modification of canon doesn't always ruin the experience.

That is not a modification of canon. That is a game mechanic that was chosen when the developers decided how closely they would simulate the lore of Star Wars. The preexisting canon  was not modified.

Modifié par JonathonPR, 26 décembre 2011 - 02:27 .