343 réponses à ce sujet

[Someone With Mass]

I wouldn't call overheat weapons something unique.

[RoboticWater]

crimzontearz wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

unless you are considering a scenarion in which there are no thermal clips to be found....in which case you are screwed

If you're a Soldier, yeah. Every other class says "Meh" and starts using their powers until they find some more clips.

Which usually takes about three seconds.

Gameplay-wise it MIGHT make sense to those who prefer that mechanic. In a general sense tho it's ridiculous as things stand

It definately makes sense to the devs, they actually want to make a challenge for their players. And if you want practicality in games, you will be sadly dissapointed. Gameplay comes before everything especially practicallity. 

[Sgt Stryker]

If the MEverse was real, overheat. It just makes no sense to have a rifle that can potentially send thousands of rounds downrange without reloading, only to be hampered by a 40-round "heat clip". It also gives the soldier more equipment to have to keep track of.

As a gameplay mechanic, I honestly prefer clips, because they allow more weapon diversity while maintaining balance between the weapon types.

[Drone223]

If you has the cooling system in ME2 and equiped with a weapon like the widow it will be extremly overpowerd, there is no real challenge, with the clip system you have to make every shot count that adds a challenge to the gameplay

[Mclouvins]

Drone223 wrote...

If you has the cooling system in ME2 and equiped with a weapon like the widow it will be extremly overpowerd, there is no real challenge, with the clip system you have to make every shot count that adds a challenge to the gameplay

It's not even about challenge, it's about balancing different weapons so that they can behave differently, giving players that choice that they crave so much.

Modifié par Mclouvins, 09 décembre 2011 - 03:15 .

[crimzontearz]

Someone With Mass wrote...

I wouldn't call overheat weapons something unique.

no, I meant the whole "shoots grain-of-sand sized projectiles so ammo is a non issue"

BlahDog wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

unless you are considering a scenarion in which there are no thermal clips to be found....in which case you are screwed

If you're a Soldier, yeah. Every other class says "Meh" and starts using their powers until they find some more clips.

Which usually takes about three seconds.

Gameplay-wise it MIGHT make sense to those who prefer that mechanic. In a general sense tho it's ridiculous as things stand

It definately makes sense to the devs, they actually want to make a challenge for their players. And if you want practicality in games, you will be sadly dissapointed. Gameplay comes before everything especially practicallity. 

it does not, it makes sense to them for gameplay reasons and because, for whatever reason, active cooldown weapons was shot down as a concept (tho if you played GoW2 and 3 you know the system works and does add "urgency" as the devs like to call it). Bur practically....it does not, not as things stand.

IF Bioware came up with a lore entry that said "oh yeah, we started using thermal clips because, due to advancement in shield tech, we upped the power of weapons so much that even a couple of shots would melt through the weapon itself.....older guns are now too weak to be of any use" I would have reluctantly been ok with it....but like this? no thanks

[DiebytheSword]

Fixed heat sinks are nothing but a mechanical abberation, an accident. Its shots are measured in cooldowns and overload attacks. They heat up, and are useless. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, they are nothing. Their extinction is inevitable. We are the end of infinate ammo.

Seriously though, I found the new system to be fine, however I don't get the need to not have them interchangable between weapons. I should have a set pool of heat sinks that fire x amount of rounds from this weapon. Sure that lets me fire the Widow a lot, but who's counting.

[Someone With Mass]

Drone223 wrote...

If you has the cooling system in ME2 and equiped with a weapon like the widow it will be extremly overpowerd, there is no real challenge, with the clip system you have to make every shot count that adds a challenge to the gameplay

Or the Revenant or Mattock.

Hell, there'd be nothing stopping you from using only a pistol through the whole game and just cast the rest of the weapons aside because of their redundancy.

[Someone With Mass]

crimzontearz wrote...
no, I meant the whole "shoots grain-of-sand sized projectiles so ammo is a non issue"

An excuse to put in a big ∞ and have no worries about designing the levels according to the ammo supply.

[bleetman]

Right. This again.

Well, I can't say I enjoy playing ammo hoover after every fight, but I can live with it. What actually bugs me is how picking up a thermal clip restores your bullet supply. For all your guns. In a setting where guns don't fire bullets, and thermal clips don't contain bullets. They could've, I don't know, had all guns share a communal thermal clip pool and require the player to have at least one to be able to fire, and it would've at least made sense.

[crimzontearz]

Someone With Mass wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
no, I meant the whole "shoots grain-of-sand sized projectiles so ammo is a non issue"

An excuse to put in a big ∞ and have no worries about designing the levels according to the ammo supply.

which is Bioware MO. No deteriorating equipment, no finished resources when it comes to combat

that is bethesda's territory (until skyrim..then they finally learned)

[Someone With Mass]

And no thinking when it comes to the environment whatsoever. Just the same stack boxes in a big room with a second level over and over again.

[RoboticWater]

crimzontearz wrote...


it does not, it makes sense to them for gameplay reasons and because, for whatever reason, active cooldown weapons was shot down as a concept (tho if you played GoW2 and 3 you know the system works and does add "urgency" as the devs like to call it). Bur practically....it does not, not as things stand.

IF Bioware came up with a lore entry that said "oh yeah, we started using thermal clips because, due to advancement in shield tech, we upped the power of weapons so much that even a couple of shots would melt through the weapon itself.....older guns are now too weak to be of any use" I would have reluctantly been ok with it....but like this? no thanks

As I said, gameplay comes before everything, even lore. While I don't really like having a big retcon, I think it was a necessary evil considering how much of ME 2's gameplay was improved. Also GoW had ammo, in fact I clearly remember running out of it a couple of times. By active cooldown I assume you mean the set reload time with a sweet spot that makes it shorter so that in mind, the devs didn't add it so they wouldn't rip off another game. This game in particular is one that Bioware has to be careful not to emulate too much as most people equate GoW with mindless shooting, an attribute unbecoming of a Bioware game.

Modifié par BlahDog, 09 décembre 2011 - 03:26 .

[crimzontearz]

Someone With Mass wrote...

And no thinking when it comes to the environment whatsoever. Just the same stack boxes in a big room with a second level over and over again.

which has nothing to do, at all, with ammo supply

not to mention that, since like some pointed out before, you never really run out of clips in ME2 even using almost exclusively 2 weapons out of potentially 4 or 5 then the game and its "improved environments" would have most probably worked fine with cooldown based weapons

[TheBlackBaron]

Look, realistically, what is better - having to regulate your rate of fire to avoid overheating, or being able to burn through the thermal clip and swap in a new one 1.5 seconds later? The latter allows you to put far more lead (or tungsten, or whatever it is the micro-scaled railguns this game calls small arms are firing) downrange, which equals more dead enemies faster. This is exactly the same principle behind the switch from battle rifles to assault rifles in the real world.

And I'm going to smack the next person that says "BUT I COULD PUT FRICTIONLESS MATERIALS X IN MY HMWAR ASSAULT RIFLE AND FIRE FOREVER!"

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 09 décembre 2011 - 03:32 .

[crimzontearz]

BlahDog wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...


it does not, it makes sense to them for gameplay reasons and because, for whatever reason, active cooldown weapons was shot down as a concept (tho if you played GoW2 and 3 you know the system works and does add "urgency" as the devs like to call it). Bur practically....it does not, not as things stand.

IF Bioware came up with a lore entry that said "oh yeah, we started using thermal clips because, due to advancement in shield tech, we upped the power of weapons so much that even a couple of shots would melt through the weapon itself.....older guns are now too weak to be of any use" I would have reluctantly been ok with it....but like this? no thanks

As I said, gameplay comes before everything, even lore. While I don't really like having a big retcon, I think it was a necessary evil considering how much of ME 2's gameplay was improved. Also GoW had ammo, in fact I clearly remember running out of it a couple of times. By active cooldown I assume you mean the set reload time with a sweet spot that makes it shorter so that in mind, the devs didn't add it so they wouldn't rip off another game. This game in particular is one that Bioware has to be careful not to emulate too much as most people equate GoW with mindless shooting, an attribute unbecoming of a Bioware game.

no

play GoW 2 or 3........use a Troika or a Silverback

you will see that they have  UNLIMITED ammo with an overheating system and a "vent" function. If you are in the middle of a fight and you are overheating either you find cover and let the weapon cool off OR you use the vent function which pins you in place while you are venting for however long you take

it's a different urgewncy but it works fine, if applied to ME2 or 3 it would not have felt like a retcon

[RoboticWater]

crimzontearz wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

And no thinking when it comes to the environment whatsoever. Just the same stack boxes in a big room with a second level over and over again.

which has nothing to do, at all, with ammo supply

not to mention that, since like some pointed out before, you never really run out of clips in ME2 even using almost exclusively 2 weapons out of potentially 4 or 5 then the game and its "improved environments" would have most probably worked fine with cooldown based weapons

By not running ammo I (and probably the rest of us) mean that you can fight a battle while keeping a close eye on your ammo, probably run out of ammo with your preferred weapon, forced to use another gun with different tactics, and then in the end easily replenish you ammo with the path to point B littered with ammo.

[CenturyCrow]

Regardless of which method you'd prefer, it would be a simple perk or option to add a choice to the game. Perhaps a perk after the first playthrough - so you could choose either method to play the game. People generally like simple customization options in weapons and armor that add choice to the game without bogging it down.

Modifié par CenturyCrow, 09 décembre 2011 - 03:33 .

[TheKillerAngel]

Imagine having a Mattock modded to the point it can fire indefinitely. It's like having an IWIN gun.

[Someone With Mass]

crimzontearz wrote...

which has nothing to do, at all, with ammo supply

not to mention that, since like some pointed out before, you never really run out of clips in ME2 even using almost exclusively 2 weapons out of potentially 4 or 5 then the game and its "improved environments" would have most probably worked fine with cooldown based weapons

Then there's no need for overheat weapons if the ammo is so plentiful.

[crimzontearz]

Someone With Mass wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

which has nothing to do, at all, with ammo supply

not to mention that, since like some pointed out before, you never really run out of clips in ME2 even using almost exclusively 2 weapons out of potentially 4 or 5 then the game and its "improved environments" would have most probably worked fine with cooldown based weapons

Then there's no need for overheat weapons if the ammo is so plentiful.

if that is the case why spit in the face of the established lore?

[Someone With Mass]

You know what I also can do with the Troika or Silverback in Gears? Mow down anything with little to no effort.

It becomes boring after a while.

[slimgrin]

They could have added upgrades to overheat, certain bonuses for holding and firing tied to overheat, they could have done any number of creative things, instead they wanted to mimic modern day military shooters. So we got ammo clips, and don't anyone even pretend to call them something different.

Modifié par slimgrin, 09 décembre 2011 - 03:38 .

[crimzontearz]

CenturyCrow wrote...

Regardless of which method you'd prefer, it would be a simple perk or option to add a choice to the game. Perhaps a perk after the first playthrough - so you could choose either method to play the game. People generally like simple customization options in weapons and armor that add choice to the game without bogging it down.

it's funny

Bioware spends resources for an "Arcade" mode and "story mode"......but not for this....

[bleetman]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Look, realistically, what is better - having to regulate your rate of fire to avoid overheating, or being able to burn through the thermal clip and swap in a new one 1.5 seconds later? The latter allows you to put far more lead (or tungsten, or whatever it is the micro-scaled railguns this game calls small arms are firing) downrange, which equals more dead enemies faster. This is exactly the same principle behind the switch from battle rifles to assault rifles in the real world.

Well yes, but the thing is if I'm able to rapid fire, eject a clip in around a second then immediately get back to firing without ever really having to worry because hey, thermal clips are everywhere, it's effectively as broken a system as modding a ME1 rifle to fire indefinately. Being broken in a different fashion doesn't make it any less broken.

Modifié par bleetman, 09 décembre 2011 - 03:36 .