343 réponses à ce sujet

[mauro2222]

Unschuld wrote...

That's your prompt to get medieval on their ass.

I can shoot arrows too? :happy:

[mango smoothie]

mauro2222 wrote...

And in ME2 if you ran out of "ammo" or thermal clips, you can't shoot. WTF?

You know I hear this all the time from people, but if your careful and apply good tactics then you won't run out of thermal clips even on insanity, Ive done it before.

[mauro2222]

mango smoothie wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

And in ME2 if you ran out of "ammo" or thermal clips, you can't shoot. WTF?

You know I hear this all the time from people, but if your careful and apply good tactics then you won't run out of thermal clips even on insanity, Ive done it before.

That wasn't the point.

[sharkboy421]

mango smoothie wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

And in ME2 if you ran out of "ammo" or thermal clips, you can't shoot. WTF?

You know I hear this all the time from people, but if your careful and apply good tactics then you won't run out of thermal clips even on insanity, Ive done it before.

Exactly.  I don't think I've ever completely run out of ammo for a weapon even on insanity and I have the bad habit of rarely changing weapons.  Came close a few times with the Mattock and Vindicator but even if I had, I could switch to other weapons.  Or use powers if not on soldier.  So yeah, I prefer thermal clips much more than overheat.

[mango smoothie]

mauro2222 wrote...

mango smoothie wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

And in ME2 if you ran out of "ammo" or thermal clips, you can't shoot. WTF?

You know I hear this all the time from people, but if your careful and apply good tactics then you won't run out of thermal clips even on insanity, Ive done it before.

That wasn't the point.

ok but how many other games out there have it were  if you run out of ammo you can't shoot, only Mass Effect 2 No. As far as I know every game that has ammo if you have no ammo guess what you can't shoot. In Mass Effect 2 powers and even melee can be actually very useful if you run out of thermal clips.

Modifié par mango smoothie, 09 décembre 2011 - 11:24 .

[mauro2222]

mango smoothie wrote...

ok but how many other games out there have it were  if you run out of ammo you can't shoot, only Mass Effect 2 No. As far as I know every game that has ammo if you have no ammo guess what you can't shoot. In Mass Effect 2 powers and even melee can be actually very useful if you run out of thermal clips.

Still not the point. Look at how weapons work in ME1 then look at them in ME2.

Modifié par mauro2222, 09 décembre 2011 - 11:26 .

[mango smoothie]

mauro2222 wrote...

mango smoothie wrote...

ok but how many other games out there have it were  if you run out of ammo you can't shoot, only Mass Effect 2 No. As far as I know every game that has ammo if you have no ammo guess what you can't shoot. In Mass Effect 2 powers and even melee can be actually very useful if you run out of thermal clips.

Still not the point. Look at how weapons work in ME1 then look at them in ME2.

I fail too see what you mean are you saying they replaced on bad system with another if thats the case then ok thats your opinion. I feel that thermal clips are a big improvement compared to ME1 and works really well.

Modifié par mango smoothie, 09 décembre 2011 - 11:31 .

[mcneil_1]

So when did the smg in ME2 get unlimited ammo?

[mauro2222]

mango smoothie wrote...

I fail too see what you mean are you saying they replaced on bad system with another if thats the case then ok thats your opinion. I feel that thermal clips are a big improvement compared to ME1 and works really well.

Nope, the problem is that thermal clips seem to have altered the weapons. Thermal clips are just a cilinder, whose purpose is to absorb the heat that the weapon produces, when certain temperature is reached it needs to be released. In ME2 when you release the thermal clip, your weapon seems to die, this means that thermal clips are ammo. How is that an improvement, when you previously had an endless quantity of ammo?

Regardless of this, I don't care. I don't find tedious the search for those things in the battlefield. It just that the explanation doesn't make sense at all.

[mango smoothie]

mauro2222 wrote...

mango smoothie wrote...

I fail too see what you mean are you saying they replaced on bad system with another if thats the case then ok thats your opinion. I feel that thermal clips are a big improvement compared to ME1 and works really well.

Nope, the problem is that thermal clips seem to have altered the weapons. Thermal clips are just a cilinder, whose purpose is to absorb the heat that the weapon produces, when certain temperature is reached it needs to be released. In ME2 when you release the thermal clip, your weapon seems to die, this means that thermal clips are ammo. How is that an improvement, when you previously had an endless quantity of ammo?

Regardless of this, I don't care. I don't find tedious the search for those things in the battlefield. It just that the explanation doesn't make sense at all.

Actually if I was in a combat situation with a choice of a gun with clips or overheat I would choose clips it's faster to reload then waiting for a gun to cool down.

[mauro2222]

mango smoothie wrote...

Actually if I was in a combat situation with a choice of a gun with clips or overheat I would choose clips it's faster to reload then waiting for a gun to cool down.

Well, yes... depends of what kind of combat. But the point is that if you ran out of thermal clips, your weapon should be still capable of shoot.

[RoboticWater]

mauro2222 wrote...

mango smoothie wrote...

Actually if I was in a combat situation with a choice of a gun with clips or overheat I would choose clips it's faster to reload then waiting for a gun to cool down.

Well, yes... depends of what kind of combat. But the point is that if you ran out of thermal clips, your weapon should be still capable of shoot.

Having limited ammo is makes you think about how you shoot and how much you need to use your powers. Having infinite ammo only forces you to wait a little for your wepon to cool so instead of using more complex tactics you just shoot wait and shoot again.

Modifié par BlahDog, 10 décembre 2011 - 12:14 .

[The Spamming Troll]

Chris Priestly wrote...

You're welcome to discuss which you prefer, but you should know that we're using teh thermal clip system from ME2, not the overheat from ME1.

so your sticking with a system thats best described as tactal, but dumb?

...and please dont ban me again for thinking your game somewhat sucks. im really very sorry about having that opinion.

[Someone With Mass]

BlahDog wrote...

Having limited ammo is makes you think about how you shoot and how much you need to use your powers. Having infinite ammo only forces you to wait a little for your wepon to cool so instead of using more complex tactics you just shoot wait and shoot again.

I even made it so my rifle produced enough heat to slightly overheat while maintaining enough damage. I still never had to think about it, because the time it took for me to go from one group of enemies to the next was usually more than enough to let the gun cool down.

I never had to use my powers either.

[Reptillius]

Something to keep in mind for this argument that may or may not have been stated already.

overheat/cooldown systems aren't as practical even as the game mechanics of ME1 made out. They'd either take a long time to run their cooldown cycle, Be overly bulky, or would be dangerous depending on how you held them while they went into a rapid cooldown phase and vented as much of that heat as they could as quickly as possible.

now Putting the tactical advantages of rapid cooling systems being useful for barbequeing that melee range opponent with super heated gas or something totally aside.

The Thermal Clip System for the most part is a very practical overheat system. You design that removable heatsink in a fashion that it can be safely removed from the gun while extremely hot and even potentially stored on your person while it vented all that built up heat while you pop in another easily replaced heat sink and you suddenly find yourself only in conflict with lore in a single place and thus not in the range of Retconning at all.

That single point is in the fact that those heatsinks we remove are just plain gone and we are out of ammo until we find one the enemy has half used up and that they aren't fully interchangable with a overall pool of heatsinks to draw from. Both of which are entirely and completely in the realm of mechanics and gameplay issues and rather wholely outside of the realm of story unfortunately. That's how they make the game more challenging and thoughtful for us.

As for the story goes... What this all really means is that the guns in ME1 while we could mod them and mechanically make them cool down rapidly or fire forever. Those are more Lore breaking than what we are using now. and as far as lore goes we have switched out cooling systems that had to be part of the gun for an interchangable part. Most military personel will tell you that an interchangable part is far more useful and efficient than weapons that aren't... And why most military weapons use just a few types of ammunition for the most part.

edit: and jsut as a little side note for those talking about infiltrators. I didn't use certain rifles because they were basically wastes of ammo even though they were cool. Once I figured that out. I didn't often run out of ammo when I had my powers to add to my effectiveness as well.  My other characters usually haven't run out of ammo in most fights for me to have to move if I don't want to as far as ammo goes. enemies occassionally flanking or getting too close. different story.  Arrival's enemy tactics at least made me a lot more mobile with whatever I play.  It also makes me annoyed at pyro's even more than that Vorcha in the archangel mission.

Modifié par Reptillius, 10 décembre 2011 - 12:58 .

[CenturyCrow]

Reptillius wrote...
The Thermal Clip System for the most part is a very practical overheat system. You design that removable heatsink in a fashion that it can be safely removed from the gun while extremely hot and even potentially stored on your person while it vented all that built up heat while you pop in another easily replaced heat sink and you suddenly find yourself only in conflict with lore in a single place and thus not in the range of Retconning at all.

Good try but not quite. If that's the case, then once the clip cools down, I could reuse it again. The other bad point about clips--why can't I buy more of them or get them from the ship's stores?

So we're stuck with clips as a game design choice. But I still preferred the old method and decide which 'bullet' type because it was a good RPG element that allowed me a choice and a way to customize my weapons. I still think they should do it both ways to provide us with the wider game experience. (Just make the bullet types more managable).

[Reptillius]

CenturyCrow wrote...

Reptillius wrote...
The Thermal Clip System for the most part is a very practical overheat system. You design that removable heatsink in a fashion that it can be safely removed from the gun while extremely hot and even potentially stored on your person while it vented all that built up heat while you pop in another easily replaced heat sink and you suddenly find yourself only in conflict with lore in a single place and thus not in the range of Retconning at all.

Good try but not quite. If that's the case, then once the clip cools down, I could reuse it again. The other bad point about clips--why can't I buy more of them or get them from the ship's stores?

So we're stuck with clips as a game design choice. But I still preferred the old method and decide which 'bullet' type because it was a good RPG element that allowed me a choice and a way to customize my weapons. I still think they should do it both ways to provide us with the wider game experience. (Just make the bullet types more managable).

I already answered these for those most part in the paragraph that followed. However... On the matter of clips getting from the ships stores... You basically do.  You can end a mission with basically no "ammo" left. And when you go on the next one your ammo will be full for all your weapons except for the Heavy Weapons.

The fact that you can't eventually re-use the clip is entirely a mechanics issue. Not a story one. Story wise we should be able to at some point pull out that clip that overheated and stick it back in the gun and have it work just fine.

As for the "bullet types" as it were.  I know we all used them. It was part of the system for ME1... But they don't actually really follow the lore of the way the guns work.  The Ammo powers of ME2 are a bit closer in that they could be part of the mass effect field surrounding the projectile but there are still problems there.

[RoboticWater]

CenturyCrow wrote...

Reptillius wrote...
The Thermal Clip System for the most part is a very practical overheat system. You design that removable heatsink in a fashion that it can be safely removed from the gun while extremely hot and even potentially stored on your person while it vented all that built up heat while you pop in another easily replaced heat sink and you suddenly find yourself only in conflict with lore in a single place and thus not in the range of Retconning at all.

Good try but not quite. If that's the case, then once the clip cools down, I could reuse it again. The other bad point about clips--why can't I buy more of them or get them from the ship's stores?

So we're stuck with clips as a game design choice. But I still preferred the old method and decide which 'bullet' type because it was a good RPG element that allowed me a choice and a way to customize my weapons. I still think they should do it both ways to provide us with the wider game experience. (Just make the bullet types more managable).

The clips are meant to keep heat in, not let it out. Even if the clip did cool down fast enough it would be at half capacity if you want to grab them quickly. What do you mean by buy more of them? Your clips are refilled after each mission and clip capacity upgrades wouldn't make sense. The ammo type system is another tactical edition. It allows soldiers to have more unique powers and forces biotics and tecs to use their powers more as well. 

Modifié par BlahDog, 10 décembre 2011 - 01:22 .

[Bluko]

Must. Resist. Urge. To. Rant.

TheBlackBaron wrote...



*Snip*

And I'm going to smack the next person that says "BUT I COULD PUT FRICTIONLESS MATERIALS X IN MY HMWAR ASSAULT RIFLE AND FIRE FOREVER!"

Ah thank you for saying everything I was going to say.

didymos1120 wrote...

Here's one about the overheat I've never seen considered: unless it was physically ejecting a coolant of some sort (which is effectively equivalent to having thermal clips in liquid form), it wouldn't be remotely practical in a vacuum or low-atmosphere situation. You'd be waiting forever for it to radiate all that heat (not that it wouldn't realistically take a long time even on worlds like Noveria).

Hmm that's a good point. Though I always assumed the heat build-up was mitigated by heatsinks and such in the weapon. And I would also that the weapons really never got that hot, hence why the weapon limited your ability to fire. I may be wrong , but aren't the small arms in mass effect essentially small rail guns? I wouldn't think there'd be that much heat from friction.

Actually that's probably a good reason why laser weaponry or anything that generates lots of heat would be nigh useless in space. It seems projecticle based weapons probably aren't going anywhere in terms of future armaments. Heh everyone always assumes lasers will be the future. Well they probably will be on planetary environments like Earth, but not in space.


Ah this all reminds me of Mechwarrior now. Those games have generally been pretty well balanced. It was always interesting because you had the choice of limited ammunition weapons like Auto-Cannons and Missiles, or you could go with Lasers. And while Laser weapons don't run out of ammunition they do generate lots of heat which required you to use them wisely.

Now this is what I call customization/inventory:



If only the Atlas Mech in ME3 could have a Particle Projectile Cannon!


Hmm I really need to find out where I left my copy of Mechwarrior 3...
*Wanders off into Nostalgia*

Modifié par Bluko, 10 décembre 2011 - 01:28 .

[mauro2222]

BlahDog wrote...

Having limited ammo is makes you think about how you shoot and how much you need to use your powers. Having infinite ammo only forces you to wait a little for your wepon to cool so instead of using more complex tactics you just shoot wait and shoot again.

Nah... both system require the same amount of thinking. Even if you run out of ammo is nothing to be concerned about.

[RoboticWater]

mauro2222 wrote...

BlahDog wrote...

Having limited ammo is makes you think about how you shoot and how much you need to use your powers. Having infinite ammo only forces you to wait a little for your wepon to cool so instead of using more complex tactics you just shoot wait and shoot again.

Nah... both system require the same amount of thinking. Even if you run out of ammo is nothing to be concerned about.

Not being able to shoot things in a Third Person Shooter? Seems kind of like a big problem.

Modifié par BlahDog, 10 décembre 2011 - 01:27 .

[mauro2222]

BlahDog wrote...

It allows soldiers to have more unique powers and forces biotics and tecs to use their powers more as well. 

It does not force anything. Unless you're playing the game on casual, you still use the weapons more often than the powers.

[mauro2222]

BlahDog wrote...

Not being able to shoot things in a Third Person Shooter? Seems kind of like a big problem.

You aren't alone.

[RoboticWater]

mauro2222 wrote...

BlahDog wrote...

It allows soldiers to have more unique powers and forces biotics and tecs to use their powers more as well. 

It does not force anything. Unless you're playing the game on casual, you still use the weapons more often than the powers.

That is true but not my point. The point of ammo types is to get an edge over certain types of protectiosn (sheilds, armor, ect.). Restricting these powers to only a few forces biotics and techs to use their powers to take out enemies not their gun.