343 réponses à ce sujet

[ObserverStatus]

overheat, don't like having to scavenge for ammor in firefights.

Modifié par bobobo878, 10 décembre 2011 - 01:32 .

[RoboticWater]

mauro2222 wrote...

BlahDog wrote...

Not being able to shoot things in a Third Person Shooter? Seems kind of like a big problem.

You aren't alone.

Of course I'm not, I use my shots and powers efficiently so I never run out of ammo. This is the general tactic Bioware wanted us to use and this system makes us do it. You may think I say this with a bad connotation but a game that forces the player to think conservatively with their weapons is always good in my book.

Modifié par BlahDog, 10 décembre 2011 - 01:37 .

[mauro2222]

BlahDog wrote...

That is true but not my point. The point of ammo types is to get an edge over certain types of protectiosn (sheilds, armor, ect.). Restricting these powers to only a few forces biotics and techs to use their powers to take out enemies not their gun.

Oh, I see. Got it.

[mauro2222]

BlahDog wrote...

Of course I'm not, I use my shots and powers efficiently so I never run out of ammo. This is the general tactic Bioware wanted us to use and this system makes us do it. You may think I say this with a bad connotation but a game that forces the player to think conservatively with their weapons is always good in my book.

But I didn't say it was bad. I told you that it wasn't a complication because your team has your back.

[RoboticWater]

mauro2222 wrote...


But I didn't say it was bad. I told you that it wasn't a complication because your team has your back.

Sorry, misunderstood you there.
My statement still stands though.

Modifié par BlahDog, 10 décembre 2011 - 01:42 .

[DeathDragon185]

with the right upgrades overheat never becomes a problem and you just shoot forever. and this is the problem overheat provides NO CHALLENGE. with Thermal clips you to make every shot count especially if your not a solider and playing on a hard difficulty setting. of course Bioware could also find a way to use BOTH systems in the game. problem ****ing solved.

[The Spamming Troll]

DeathDragon185 wrote...

with the right upgrades overheat never becomes a problem and you just shoot forever. and this is the problem overheat provides NO CHALLENGE. with Thermal clips you to make every shot count especially if your not a solider and playing on a hard difficulty setting. of course Bioware could also find a way to use BOTH systems in the game. problem ****ing solved.

whats the point of trying to conserve ammo in ME2, when NOBODY runs out of ammo in the first place?

and im not sure, maybe im wrong here, but i think ME1 was 100% more difficult then ME2. ME2 features two difficult parts, horizon, and the collector ships, and maybe recruiting garrus was kindof hard but only becasue it was a timed event. ME1 features TONS of difficult parts. anyone here remember fighting those two turian assasins at choras den in the beginging of ME1? or fighting that ONE KROGAN on therum?

maybe youve convinced yourself that a weapon that fires forever equates to a game being easy, but i just dont see it that way at all.

[Reptillius]

DeathDragon185 wrote...

with the right upgrades overheat never becomes a problem and you just shoot forever. and this is the problem overheat provides NO CHALLENGE. with Thermal clips you to make every shot count especially if your not a solider and playing on a hard difficulty setting. of course Bioware could also find a way to use BOTH systems in the game. problem ****ing solved.

They playtested some of that and didn't really like the Thermal Clip System origionally for the second game but it's something that grew on them the more they tested combat in different ways.

In my Insanity Run with my Adept and realizing I could do powers on the console even when they were redded out in playthroughs before that one I found I didn't really need my guns after the first few levels. They just made combat faster and I'm not one to let a resource like that go to waste while my powers were on cooldown.  the higher my level got the less I needed them and the less I used them usually.

[Reptillius]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

DeathDragon185 wrote...

with the right upgrades overheat never becomes a problem and you just shoot forever. and this is the problem overheat provides NO CHALLENGE. with Thermal clips you to make every shot count especially if your not a solider and playing on a hard difficulty setting. of course Bioware could also find a way to use BOTH systems in the game. problem ****ing solved.

whats the point of trying to conserve ammo in ME2, when NOBODY runs out of ammo in the first place?

and im not sure, maybe im wrong here, but i think ME1 was 100% more difficult then ME2. ME2 features two difficult parts, horizon, and the collector ships, and maybe recruiting garrus was kindof hard but only becasue it was a timed event. ME1 features TONS of difficult parts. anyone here remember fighting those two turian assasins at choras den in the beginging of ME1? or fighting that ONE KROGAN on therum?

maybe youve convinced yourself that a weapon that fires forever equates to a game being easy, but i just dont see it that way at all.

only one fight is particularly difficult for me in ME1... Fighting the Krogen and the Geth after rescueing Liara.  All the rest I just handled them a little differently depending on my class.  And if I would put off getting her until after doing some of the side stuff. that one probably wouldn't be hard either. but I like opening up all my character options as early as possible in ME1.

the only other annoying/difficult thing for me sometimes is just those red lines of death from snipers on occasion.  But that's usually because I do something stupid.

[Bluko]

Slidell505 wrote...

Both. You have infinite ammo, but when you overheat you can slap in a thermal clip. If you run out of thermal clips, you can still fire you just have to watch out for the over heating. Cooldowns for overheating should be increased to balance.

That would have been nice. Not sure why such a system wouldn't have worked. Really I would have been fine with thermal clips being introduced that way, because then they do make sense, and probably would have added a lot more strategy/depth to the game. (Although I suppose it's too "complicated" or something.)

If the guns in ME2 and ME3 are going to use ammo, why not just call it ammo? Saying the guns use larger rounds, etc. would have been a lot more believable then the silly excuse of "thermal clips" that we have now. I can forgive the occassional goofy abilities for the sake of gameplay, but thermals clips and their portrayed usage have irrevocably damaged the fiction of this series since they aren't just a "game thing". I just won't ever like them no matter how "cool" or "stylish" Bioware tries to make them.

Doesn't mean I can't or won't play ME3. But if Thermal Clips are to remain a staple of the series I think I can say it'll be the final straw that breaks the camel's back. I'm not interested in seeing Mass Effect degraded into pure Space-Fantasy dribble. I had hoped Mass Effect was going to be something of a legit Science Fiction series.

Eh next thing you know Saren will come back as a Biotic Ghost telling Shepard to use the "Red Sand". That's honestly were my expectations have sunk to. I don't hate Mass Effect or anything, but I just don't expect to be enthralled by the Codex, etc. (Nerd Stuff) anymore.

Modifié par Bluko, 10 décembre 2011 - 02:37 .

[RoboticWater]

Bluko wrote...

If the guns in ME2 and ME3 are going to use ammo, why not just call it ammo? Saying the guns use larger rounds, etc. would have been a lot more believable then the silly excuse of "thermal clips" that we have now. I can forgive the occassional goofy abilities for the sake of gameplay, but thermals clips and their portrayed usage have irrevocably damaged the fiction of this series since they aren't just a "game thing". I just won't ever like them no matter how "cool" or "stylish" Bioware tries to make them.

Doesn't mean I can't or won't play ME3. But if Thermal Clips are to remain a staple of the series I think I can say it'll be the final straw that breaks the camel's back. I'm not interested in seeing Mass Effect degraded into pure Space-Fantasy dribble. I had hoped Mass Effect was going to be something of a legit Science Fiction series.

Eh next thing you know Saren will come back as a Biotic Ghost telling Shepard to use the "Red Sand". That's honestly were my expectations have sunk to. I don't hate Mass Effect or anything, but I just don't expect to be enthralled by the Codex, etc. (Nerd Stuff) anymore.

If Bioware called TCs ammo then we would have people complaining how they blatantly switched between the two systems with no reguard to the lore at all. At least Bioware tried to make something beleivable to the fiction when they changed an integral part of gameplay. The lore has established the fact that weapons give off heat and need to cool, clips are heat sinks and cool the gun faster. It's a decent excuse one that beats "oh yea the guns use batteries now".

How do TCs degrade the series? Would you prefer that ammo be some cliche energy cell thing that was copy-pasted from every other sci-fi game? Replacing the ammo system is such a small part of the lore, it has almost no influence over the stoy and certainly not in the amount of influence you seem to beleive it does. No pivotal part of the story is going to hinge on having too little ammo or having your gun overheat.

Modifié par BlahDog, 10 décembre 2011 - 03:19 .

[TheRealJayDee]

Bluko wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

Both. You have infinite ammo, but when you overheat you can slap in a thermal clip. If you run out of thermal clips, you can still fire you just have to watch out for the over heating. Cooldowns for overheating should be increased to balance.

That would have been nice. Not sure why such a system wouldn't have worked. Really I would have been fine with thermal clips being introduced that way, because then they do make sense, and probably would have added a lot more strategy/depth to the game. (Although I suppose it's too "complicated" or something.)

If the guns in ME2 and ME3 are going to use ammo, why not just call it ammo? Saying the guns use larger rounds, etc. would have been a lot more believable then the silly excuse of "thermal clips" that we have now. I can forgive the occassional goofy abilities for the sake of gameplay, but thermals clips and their portrayed usage have irrevocably damaged the fiction of this series since they aren't just a "game thing". I just won't ever like them no matter how "cool" or "stylish" Bioware tries to make them.

Doesn't mean I can't or won't play ME3. But if Thermal Clips are to remain a staple of the series I think I can say it'll be the final straw that breaks the camel's back. I'm not interested in seeing Mass Effect degraded into pure Space-Fantasy dribble. I had hoped Mass Effect was going to be something of a legit Science Fiction series.

Eh next thing you know Saren will come back as a Biotic Ghost telling Shepard to use the "Red Sand". That's honestly were my expectations have sunk to. I don't hate Mass Effect or anything, but I just don't expect to be enthralled by the Codex, etc. (Nerd Stuff) anymore.

Agreed 100%. You really have the tendency to express my own opinions better than I can.

[Kakita Tatsumaru]

BlahDog wrote...
Not being able to shoot things in a Third Person Shooter? Seems kind of like a big problem.

Then stop wasting your ammo and use the HUD, but of course if you do that it won't be a TPS anymore.

[JonathonPR]

I cannot understand the argument of the heat system as being detrimental to combat tactics. If you understand how a system works you can design levels based on that system. What I have seen is a lack of adaptability. Its as though level designers are only willing to create levels based on limited ammo systems. Players seem unwilling to adapt to new combat mechanics and then complain that it is not like the combat they are used to.

It is the same type of mentality that led to the massive casualties of WW1. Each new generation of warfare brings a change in tactics and causes old systems to become obsolete. When cannons and artillery became common forts changed their walls to steeper angles to deflect shots, the ****s flew over the Maginot line, by the end of WW2 the idea of a permanent combat station as an asset in total war disappeared with the invention of atomic weapons. Each new advance required adaptation and refinement of strategy.

The explanations for heat clips rely on conventional thinking and can only work when only basic unmodified weapons are allowed in scenarios. If all technology and modifications are allowed from the series the only competition is price. I will accept your choice to bring your heat clips if you will accept my choice to bring my high explosive ammo mod with frictionless materials assault rifle with infinite ammo.

[SynheKatze]

Bluko wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

Both. You have infinite ammo, but when you overheat you can slap in a thermal clip. If you run out of thermal clips, you can still fire you just have to watch out for the over heating. Cooldowns for overheating should be increased to balance.

That would have been nice. Not sure why such a system wouldn't have worked. Really I would have been fine with thermal clips being introduced that way, because then they do make sense, and probably would have added a lot more strategy/depth to the game. (Although I suppose it's too "complicated" or something.)

They tested it and noticed players would simply wait for the guns to cool down, completely ignoring the thermal clips.

As for a gameplay mechanic ruining the lore, I can't get to give it so much importance, so I'm not annoyed at all =/

[Ozzelll]

Overheat. You can mod your weapon to basically never overheat in ME1. Instead we have to use ammo like in any FPS game. :/

[crimzontearz]

number one

when I said "ask a soldier' I meant ask an ACTUAL soldier....not someone who plays a soldier

number two

it's funny how people defend so strenuously decisions like this one (thermal clips) or even more ridiculous ones like Jack's/Miranda's/Samara's attire in combat

[Epic777]

crimzontearz wrote...

number one

when I said "ask a soldier' I meant ask an ACTUAL soldier....not someone who plays a soldier

number two

it's funny how people defend so strenuously decisions like this one (thermal clips) or even more ridiculous ones like Jack's/Miranda's/Samara's attire in combat

If people can defend ME1's exploration anything is possible

[Lordgleen]

I do know several real life soldiers and they all but one like to the over heating style of weapon to TC in facet one said with out the cussing of cores that TC is the wordt idea he heard OH(over heating) is a better idea.

[crimzontearz]

I do not.

[crimzontearz]

I do not.

[Lordgleen]

Oh in ME1 I used on an AR or pistol a frictonless mod and a scram rail mod. I would still buil up heat but do more damage.

[crimzontearz]

@ lordgleen

My stepson is a us Marine...and a gamer (tho mostly sims, sports and the occasional shooter)

when I posed the question to him he laughed at me and asked me if I was serious. Realizing I was indeed serious he said that thermal clips (given the lnore) make zero sense

[vader da slayer]

rubber banding my controller once I got an HMWP X + Frictionless Mats X and enough power cool down reduction to keep Marksman up 100% of the time wasn't very fun and made it so I never used powers either. Which could also bring me to why I think the ME2 power system is better for the sole fact that weapons cant be used all the time thanks to thermal clips.

Oh and btw. The guns still use a block of metal/whatever to shoot so technically they still have infinite ammo they just need heatsinks in order to fire. And if you follow the lore it even says that the thermal clips were picked up off of Geth designs. And before you say "well how did everyone get these thermal clip weapons so fast?" 1) not every enemy dropped clips so obbviously they all didn't have them 2) new technology has a tendancy to spread very quickly (look at anything technology wise today) and 3) its been two years since the end of ME1 to the start of ME2 post the SR1 destruction.

Also the in game representation of how something works isn't neccassarily how it works. In first ME book they talked about how you could only take a couple shots before your shields dropped. In ME1 you could just run around not taking cover and not worry about your shields dropping ever. Just because the weapons we used in ME1 could cool off in a second or two doesn't mean thats how they work from a pure lore standpoint. In the codex it even says that the thermal clips provided a massive increase in how many rounds could be put down range in a short period of time (ie rounds/minute went up). Adding in thermal clips from a gameplay perspective also makes sense as it makes the player well play the game instead of just mindlessly holding down the RT.

Modifié par vader da slayer, 10 décembre 2011 - 06:44 .

[Lordgleen]

ME1 felt like it was the fare future with tech and what was going on, but ME2 felt like it went back in time with weaker shields puny weapons and the TC. it was not the future and it went aganst the cannon of the universe. also from a game play stand I have played and Love ME1 and have betten it more the 50 time since I got it. ME2 is and soso game that I have played maybe 14times.