216 réponses à ce sujet

[TheBlackBaron]

If only it were as easy as that.

[Cutlasskiwi]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

After Witch Hunt, I'm fine never seeing Morrigan again. And didnt really do that much for me in Origins either. So yes, in my opinion I think its a complete exaggaration on her importance. Especially given how optional the OGB thingie is.

However I do like Claudia Black. But The Old Republic will be scratching that itch just fine. She's a player voice there.

Agreed. Although I must say that I'm curious to see how they'll "solve"/continue the OGB thingie and what happens if you didn't do it.

..But I think they should bring back Varric and Isabela instead.  

[DreamwareStudio]

eroeru wrote...

google_calasade wrote...
What the hell...this is Morrigan in DA 2?  Seriously?  Is she in DA 2?  I've yet to play it (am now on Origins...late to the party).  Did they muck up other characters as well?  After seeing the likes of the Witcher 2 and Skyrim, even Origins which is older than either of those...that's just...well...bad across the board and almost down to Morrowind quality.

No, no, no, don't bring her back...not like this.

Alistair/Teagan: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-p45GzVKgNrs/TX0akJ5QC7I/AAAAAAAABrc/euVzy4G4_no/s800/Dragon-Age-2-Alistair-Teagan.jpg

Zevran: http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/4944/motivator7d50497e64257d.jpg

And they feel even worse in motion. Just google/youtube the names, I
for one am fairly certain there are little to none spoilers to DA2, at
least with these characters (they have horribly pointless roles there - they're only there "just because", without any good reason imho). Leliana was meh, but not utterly ugly as
these guys were made out.

But luckily, no, Morrigan was not in DA2 - this is just how the engine would interpret her for DA2.

As to the topic - I think you can
find my position implied by this reply already. + I'd add that they need to
remodel the art design in order to bring any association to DA:O down
to a believable and relevant extent.

Those character models are horrid.  What I fail to comprehend is how anyone from Bioware/EA (they are one in the same) can feel good about the character models in DA 2.  Wasn't DA 2 supposed to be a graphical improvement?  I fail to see it in those links you provided.

I especially fail to see how Bioware/EA can feel good about what they've done in light of Skyrim but especially the Witcher 2.  Looking at DA 2 character models reminds of circa 2003 in game evolution.

Check out the two characters on the left from Morrowind. See what I mean when I say similar in quality?

[eroeru]

The morrowind ones had lots and lots of love in making them - they're very detailed for games made pre-2005. I for one vastly appreciate the graphics and design-decisions in Morrowind, but find them utterly terrifying in DA2 (from which a large deal of disappointment stems from)...

[DreamwareStudio]

eroeru wrote...

The morrowind ones had lots and lots of love in making them - they're very detailed for games made pre-2005. I for one vastly appreciate the graphics and design-decisions in Morrowind, but find them utterly terrifying in DA2 (from which a large deal of disappointment stems from)...

Oh, I wasn't slamming Morrowind with that comparison.  Considering the time in which the Morrowind models were made they are quite astounding, and it is quite easy to tell a lot of time and effort were put into them.  My intent was to simply show how far back in time the DA 2 models appeared, which is not good considering this is 2011 and the Morrowind models are a tad better in some aspects, IMO.  More importantly, however, my point was also to say we've seen better models in not only Origins and Oblivion (both of which preceded DA 2) but especially Skyrim and double especially with the Witcher 2.

Granted, I've yet to play DA 2 (I will soon), but the DA model renders are simply embarrassing from a comparison standpoint.  If there is to be a DA 3, Bioware/EA needs to create a new game engine capable of richer graphics, that's for sure.  As for gameplay, storyline, etc., I will withhold judgment until I've played the entire game.

Modifié par google_calasade, 11 décembre 2011 - 01:57 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

I still cannot fathom why they changed the face modelling system to such a poor standard. They've taken a large step backwards in that regard.

@google_calasade: It isn;t the engines fault. I've seen marvelous things done with dated engines (See the Witcher, which uses the same engine as Never Winter Nights). Bioware just cannot be ****ed making a good looking game, or at least a game that has a decent art style.

[Mark of the Dragon]

It gets annoying when the only argument that people have against Morrigan coming back is her look. Morrigan, i'm sure, will play a big role in future Dragon Age games. I am also pretty sure that if Bioware brings her back that they will change her look similar to what they did for Flemeth. I mean it has been ten years and she has been in another world so im sure she will look different.
As far as the topic I would love to see Morrigan again however the franchise is not dependent on her. If they dont have a good reason to bring her back then they shouldnt the series will survive without her.

[Atakuma]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

I still cannot fathom why they changed the face modelling system to such a poor standard. They've taken a large step backwards in that regard.

The system barely changed at all. The only significant difference is that DA2 heads have three dimentional teeth, which is the reason for the large jaws and puffy cheeks.

[DreamwareStudio]

Mark of the Dragon wrote...

It gets annoying when the only argument that people have against Morrigan coming back is her look. Morrigan, i'm sure, will play a big role in future Dragon Age games. I am also pretty sure that if Bioware brings her back that they will change her look similar to what they did for Flemeth. I mean it has been ten years and she has been in another world so im sure she will look different.
As far as the topic I would love to see Morrigan again however the franchise is not dependent on her. If they dont have a good reason to bring her back then they shouldnt the series will survive without her.

I've seen others quote other reasons, such as storyline, and on that I think it depends if the storyline can validate her return.  While the looks of a game do not decide the overall quality of a game, they play a part.  They do (more importantly) go a long way towards the immersion of a game.  It's hard to get into a game when the player is all the time asking themselves, "WTF were they thinking when they designed that..."

[DreamwareStudio]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

I still cannot fathom why they changed the face modelling system to such a poor standard. They've taken a large step backwards in that regard.

@google_calasade: It isn;t the engines fault. I've seen marvelous things done with dated engines (See the Witcher, which uses the same engine as Never Winter Nights). Bioware just cannot be ****ed making a good looking game, or at least a game that has a decent art style.

I was quite surprised by what the Witcher did in comparison to NWN as far as presentation goes.  The current engine they use for the DA franchise is already outdated (it was designed in what, 2007?), and cannot do something along the lines of Skyrim or the Witcher 2.  If Bioware/EA wants to keep the DA franchise relevant, they'll need to address that portion (and a whole lot more I'm guessing judging by the feedback on DA 2 as a whole).

[DreamwareStudio]

Atakuma wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

I still cannot fathom why they changed the face modelling system to such a poor standard. They've taken a large step backwards in that regard.

The system barely changed at all. The only significant difference is that DA2 heads have three dimentional teeth, which is the reason for the large jaws and puffy cheeks.

The skin textures look very washed out and overall, the faces do not seem as detailed as what was in Origins.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Atakuma wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

I still cannot fathom why they changed the face modelling system to such a poor standard. They've taken a large step backwards in that regard.

The system barely changed at all. The only significant difference is that DA2 heads have three dimentional teeth, which is the reason for the large jaws and puffy cheeks.

That in itself changes the system drastically.

[Brockololly]

Sareth Cousland wrote...
 Where does the "Morrigan" on this page come from? It bears no resemblance whatsoever to Morrigan from DA:O.

It comes from DA2. A modder went looking in DA2's files and found a .msh file for Morrigan and just added the hair and tints. Here is the mod in question. So for whatever reason, thats what BioWare came up with for Morrigan in DA2's facemorph system as far as the structure of her face. Hopefully, it was buried for a reason as a craptastic work in progress. But considering how rubbish other Origins characters look in DA2, I wouldn't doubt Morrigan in DA2's engine would likewise look terrible, or , at least not much like DAO, maybe outside of them sticking with the same hair.

And I tried out that Morrigan facemorph to see if it looked as bad in game, and yes, yes, it looks pretty bad- let's compare:

Atakuma wrote...
The system barely changed at all. The only significant difference is that  DA2 heads have three dimentional teeth, which is the reason for the  large jaws and puffy cheeks.

They totally redid the facemorph system:

For example, the faces got a complete overhaul in topology and texture...

. We didn't choose to improve everyones look just because of the art style, but because we revamped the head system entirely.

They changed everything in terms of the facemorph system, from the shape of eyes, noses, lips, shapes of the heads - its all completely different than Origins. Its not the same system at all.

Not to mention how the lighting system seems to make everyone look like a complete Two Face, where they might look ok in one setting and completely different in another. Or how everyone's skin is all Botoxed and smooth to the point of almost looking cel-shaded.

google_calasade wrote...
I've seen others quote  other reasons, such as storyline, and on that I think it depends if the  storyline can validate her return.  While the looks of a game do not  decide the overall quality of a game, they play a part.  They do (more  importantly) go a long way towards the immersion of a game.  It's hard  to get into a game when the player is all the time asking themselves,  "WTF were they thinking when they designed that..."

Right- I 'd only want Morrigan to come back if it makes sense given the overall story and if they can give her a meaningful role that respects and acknowledges her past history with the Warden and all that happened there. Not just like DA2 did in having an Origins character return for a 40 second cameo to break the 4th wall by saying some catchphrase from Origins, all the while looking like their facemorphs were scrabbled together at the last minute.

My concern in bringing Morrigan back is that in doing so, they'll essentially write off or marginalize anything your Warden did with Morrigan. So for any Warden that had Morrigan as a best friend, nemesis or lover, all thats wiped clean once you bring in a new PC, unless BioWare accounts for that through the writing and dialogue.

Especially if your Warden had the OGB with her and went through the Eluvian with Morrigan, thats a choice made on the presumption they would likely stay along with Morrigan and stay as an important figure alongside her. So then, in that case, either BioWare cheaps out and writes off those Wardens and weasels out of actively  involving the player in their Warden's consequences or they'll hijack the Warden like they hijacked Revan and have them doing things which likely wouldn't make sense given how you played your Warden. Or BioWare pulls an Anders or some kind of Gandalf the White deal and brings back Morrigan having already undergone massive character development off screen, making her "new" for the player and player character but basically making her an alltogether new character.

Modifié par Brockololly, 11 décembre 2011 - 04:59 .

[LPPrince]

I don't want her ruined with the DA2 art style.

Bring back DAO's and I fully support her return. If future games look as bad as DA2 did, leave her the hell out.

[Brockololly]

Filament wrote...

Or they could just have it where the Warden is always off conveniently gathering wood or killing giant spiders or riding the griffon they found, like Clifford Banes every time the Onion does panel segment.

Oh, I'm sure while Morrigan is off facing certain peril having amazing globe trotting escapades, the Warden will be stuck in Eluvian Land painting the shed and baking the bread.

[DreamwareStudio]

Brockololly wrote...

But considering how rubbish other Origins characters look in DA2, I wouldn't doubt Morrigan in DA2's engine would likewise look terrible, or , at least not much like DAO, maybe outside of them sticking with the same hair.

And I tried out that Morrigan facemorph to see if it looked as bad in game, and yes, yes, it looks pretty bad- let's compare:

Atakuma wrote...
The system barely changed at all. The only significant difference is that  DA2 heads have three dimentional teeth, which is the reason for the  large jaws and puffy cheeks.

They totally redid the facemorph system:

For example, the faces got a complete overhaul in topology and texture...

. We didn't choose to improve everyones look just because of the art style, but because we revamped the head system entirely.

They changed everything in terms of the facemorph system, from the shape of eyes, noses, lips, shapes of the heads - its all completely different than Origins. Its not the same system at all.

Not to mention how the lighting system seems to make everyone look like a complete Two Face, where they might look ok in one setting and completely different in another. Or how everyone's skin is all Botoxed and smooth to the point of almost looking cel-shaded.

google_calasade wrote...
I've seen others quote  other reasons, such as storyline, and on that I think it depends if the  storyline can validate her return.  While the looks of a game do not  decide the overall quality of a game, they play a part.  They do (more  importantly) go a long way towards the immersion of a game.  It's hard  to get into a game when the player is all the time asking themselves,  "WTF were they thinking when they designed that..."

Right- I 'd only want Morrigan to come back if it makes sense given the overall story and if they can give her a meaningful role that respects and acknowledges her past history with the Warden and all that happened there. Not just like DA2 did in having an Origins character return for a 40 second cameo to break the 4th wall by saying some catchphrase from Origins, all the while looking like their facemorphs were scrabbled together at the last minute.

My concern in bringing Morrigan back is that in doing so, they'll essentially write off or marginalize anything your Warden did with Morrigan. So for any Warden that had Morrigan as a best friend, nemesis or lover, all thats wiped clean once you bring in a new PC, unless BioWare accounts for that through the writing and dialogue.

Especially if your Warden had the OGB with her and went through the Eluvian with Morrigan, thats a choice made on the presumption they would likely stay along with Morrigan and stay as an important figure alongside her. So then, in that case, either BioWare cheaps out and writes off those Wardens and weasels out of actively  involving the player in their Warden's consequences or they'll hijack the Warden like they hijacked Revan and have them doing things which likely wouldn't make sense given how you played your Warden. Or BioWare pulls an Anders or some kind of Gandalf the White deal and brings back Morrigan having already undergone massive character development off screen, making her "new" for the player and player character but basically making her an alltogether new character.

Ugh, that's HORRENDOUS.  In the DA 2 model, she looks like a Terminator without skin, all metallic.  Well, except for the blush part that makes her resemble something out of Killer Clowns.

Rather than risk alienating whatever holdover fans they have from Origins, I think it best if Bioware/EA leave the characters from Origins completely out of future releases.  In all likelihood, including those characters in cheap cameos in such bad form will not attract any additional customers from the Origins customer base and will probably only cause even more to abandon the franchise.

Unless DA 2 floors me with gameplay, there's no way I'll recommend it to my friends whereas with Origins, I tell everyone that along with the Witcher series and Skyrim that Origins is a must buy.

What really concerns me is this:

. We didn't choose to improve everyones look just because of the art style, but because we revamped the head system entirely.

That Bioware/EA considers these washed out/metallic/robotic models an upgrade.  How could they?  I mean, such a drop in quality is not a matter of opinion nor can it be argued.  There is far less detail while also less subtlety, and that combination is sort of like a cartoon drawn by a high madman.  Since seeing Alistair, Zevran, and Morrigan I've also taken a closer look at screenshots of non-Origin characters thinking that was the issue.

Sadly, it is not.

I have a high-end machine, so I'm hoping there's an improvement somewhere.

Modifié par google_calasade, 11 décembre 2011 - 06:39 .

[Brockololly]

Filament wrote...

Who says she's doing all of that with the protagonist around? Are you supposing her to be a companion again? I was thinking more of a Flemeth role.

Oh, I'm not- she certainly could come back as a non companion NPC. If she did come back at all in the future, I'd probably prefer it if she wasn't a companion again.

[Plaintiff]

Yeah... no.

I like Morrigan, but for a lot of people; there is no OGB and she is dead.

Bringing her back is just going to ****** off everyone who already thinks Bioware retconned all their decisions.

[Zanallen]

Brockololly wrote...

Oh, I'm sure while Morrigan is off facing certain peril having amazing globe trotting escapades, the Warden will be stuck in Eluvian Land painting the shed and baking the bread.

Well yeah, everyone knows that Morrimancing wardens are all whipped.

[Persephone]

Brockololly wrote...

And I tried out that Morrigan facemorph to see if it looked as bad in game, and yes, yes, it looks pretty bad- let's compare:

Those are goddam fugly. both of them. *Runs away from the Morri fan crowd* Strangely enough, I prefer DAII's morph to DAO's "I'm a saucy witch who fell into a pot of lilac eye shadow and rouge.":whistle:

[Pedrak]

I thought Morrigan was an awesome character and one of the best Bio has ever created (and Claudia Black was simply fantastic - great actress and boys, she has one sexy voice), but I'm not sure that bringing her back will "save" the franchise.

DA2 could have been a masterpiece even without Morrigan; DA3 could be mediocre even with her return - and a forced role that clumsily shoehorns her into the story, maybe imposing a particular canon about her fate/the Warden's to all players, would be a flaw rather than a virtue.

Morrigan was a great character in a great game, but she didn't single-handedly make DAO great. Neither the lack of her made DA2 an inferior sequel.

This said, some sort of closure to the OGB plot (even not in the main quest) or Morri's/Claudia's brief cameo in a flashback or a vision - respecting the player's previous choices - would be good, but I don't see it happening.

In fact, they'll probably not mention her or the Warden or even Hawke - the only ones returning will be Isabela to have sex with the new protagonist too and also the companion many people have killed at the end of DA2  

Modifié par Pedrak, 11 décembre 2011 - 04:10 .

[HanErlik]

Even the Maker's very himself can not save the franchise from this time forth.