216 réponses à ce sujet

[FlyinElk212]

Wulfram wrote...

This Default Lady Hawke with haircut, eye make up and eye colour and nothing else changed



Despire being Lady Hawke in a wig and contacts, it's infinitely more like Morrigan than the silly thing found in the files that people insist on obsessing over.

EXACTLY.

I really don't get the obsession with raging over the facemorph that they DIDN'T USE in game. There are CLEARLY facial errors in that morph that Bioware would fix. Leliana & Alistair's facemorphs were similar enough to their Dragon Age: Origins counterparts to be instantly recognizable. Morrigan's, however, has MULTIPLE errors that'd make it hard for players to recognize her from a glance:




Look, the eyes are way too big in the DA2 model, and the lips aren't full enough. The headshape isn't even right. What Wulfram's post shows is that, with even slight effort, one can create a decent looking Morrigan model that looks at least a little recognizable. What's to say Bioware can't for the next game? They had no reason to change Leliana/Alistair's because they were recognizable, and frankly didn't look that bad. (Zevran's change is disappointing but makes sense considering the elf race's design overhaul). Morrigan's however would need a little work...which i'm SURE Bioware would do, especially if WE can make one with their in-game engine.

In regards to the main topic though, there is no doubt in my mind bringing back Morrigan would boost the franchise significantly. Maybe not save it, but certainly bring it up. The good news is that, in terms of Party Members from previous games that cannot die, Morrigan is one of them (the only others being Leliana, Varric, Aveline, & Isabela). If Bioware looks to restock their characters from previous games, she's one of just a few AND the only mage option.

Modifié par FlyinElk212, 11 décembre 2011 - 11:30 .

[Apollo Starflare]

Filament wrote...

Actually aside from Morrigan, while I wouldn't call the new models an improvement and some of them are off to different degrees, sometimes depending on the lighting, I think the extent to which it's a problem has been greatly exaggerated.

This.

The Zevran one has the whole 'Elves are completely different' thing going against it too.

[Shevy]

RagingCyclone wrote...

Shevy_001 wrote...

Bringing her back like they did in Witch Hunt? No thanks.
If its inevitable, please try to get the same German voice actress.
Alistair, Teagan , Leliana and Zevran were totally ruined by changing the actors. I cant even play male Hawke, because he has the voice of DA:O Zevran. <_<

wut...wut...wut? I know in the English version the VA's were exactly the same for all those characters and Hawke was voiced by the same guy that did Vaughn/Ser Bryant/ and a few others. How screwed up was the voice acting in the other languages?

I dont know why, but they changed the studio for the voiceover for DA II. It was one of the biggest letdowns for me, totally broke the immersion.

[Loup Blanc]

Persephone wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

And I tried out that Morrigan facemorph to see if it looked as bad in game, and yes, yes, it looks pretty bad- let's compare:

Those are goddam fugly. both of them. *Runs away from the Morri fan crowd* Strangely enough, I prefer DAII's morph to DAO's "I'm a saucy witch who fell into a pot of lilac eye shadow and rouge.":whistle:

The DA2 render is horrible. Put some green puke on her lips, a couple of scratches on her puffy face, and she looks like Linda Blair in The Exorcist. Gross.

[Fallstar]

Morrigan was my favourite companion from Origins, so bringing her back would be a big plus. Again though, I'm not sure how they can work it so she appears without the Warden.

Also Bioware, Act 2 was the strongest part of DA:2. I know you probably want to focus on the mage templar storyline for now, but in DA:3 I'd bring in the Qunari invasion plotline. And re-introduce Sten. The real Sten, that is.

[DreamwareStudio]

MagmaSaiyan wrote...

you are just to used to seeing Alistair in Origins, and if you obviously dont like the graphics to begin with(idk you tell me) why would you like any old characters rendered in the new engine, cause with it characters are bound to change, you can still see bits of Origins in them to know who they are. Zevran wasnt a major part of DA:O either, but yet i still think he could have been better at least a look like Fenris, but i dont hate the outcome as he is. i can say i hate the way all the characters look in Skyrim. just cause the world looks great doesnt mean the people can look horrible.

all. if its Hurlocks youre talking about i believe it was HeMan?(not sure if that was 80s or not)(Skeletor)

oh sure Bioware probably could have stayed the same with DA but they arent panzies, not to mention Origins engine was old(graphic wise), they like to see what they can try, fail or not they grow better that way, they may loose some fans thats their fault but they also gain new players to their game

Skeletor!  Yes, thank you.   That is EXACTLY what they remind me of.

They've inarguably lost more fans than they've gained judging by DA 2 sales.  Keeping consistent does not mean staying stagnant.  Look no farther than Baldur's Gate, the Witcher or Elder Scrolls series.  There is a way to improve upon an existing game and grow without alienating the majority of your fanbase.

My distaste for the renderings of Alistair and Zevran in DA 2 have nothing whatsoever to do with what I've seen in DA:O (I'm about 30% done so it has NOTHING to do with familiarity).  Had I never seen anything in regards to DA:O, I still would have thought the DA 2 model renderings were bad.  Why?  Because they are.  They are not up to today's gaming standards, and certainly do not compare with other AAA titles out there.  If you want comparable, go back all the way to 2002 and Morrowind.

Not all of what I've seen from DA 2 looks like crap.  Some things are okay (but if a developer wants a super-selling game they should not settle for okay), and others are less than okay, often venturing into amateurish or plain poor.  But here we're talking about character renderings and I would prefer to venture no farther off the thread's subject of Morrigan than what I've already done.

Modifié par google_calasade, 12 décembre 2011 - 06:04 .

[DreamwareStudio]

Sylvianus wrote...

My new friend. Well said.

And you have no idea how  the look of Flemeth is inconsistent ( not the only thing inconsistent in DA2 ). They changed her simply for design, sex appeal.

They did not care, a description that was made in the book of david gaider as a mysterious and ugly old woman. They do not care what told Morrigan and Flemeth herself about her look, how she looked in DAO.

They simply thought, a witch with breasts, it's cool. No respect for what they did with this character, for their world. I thought at first that flemeth had changed because she was younger, because she had eaten one of her daughters. Something in the lore, I don't know that explains that. No, the design was just for fun, more impressive to them. When I learned that, I was facepalmed to be honest.

Seriously, between the first Flemeth, and the second flemeth. Which one is scary? This old woman with low appearance that hides something, or the bombastic witch?

And no, so far no matter any pic about Morrigan you took from DA2, she's ugly as hell.

That's about what I figured when I saw the new Flemeth.  Tossing away the underlying rules for a character will only help erode the very base from which Bioware/EA hopes to grow.

It is ironic.  They amped up what they thought was her sex appeal, but she has none to little and also lost anything remotely unsettling about her.  IMO, they cheapened her.

[nuclearpengu1nn]

I gave up on the Dragon Age Franchise once I start to see what direction it was going. The cliff hangers, and our choice not mattering took the fun away from the Dragon Age that I once considered my favorite game of all time. So yeah, even if they "get" Morrigan back, I would hardly care. But don't let me ruin your fun from DA2, I merely gave my opinion.

[TheReignmaker]

Unless The Warden returns, I don't see any point in having Morrigan return.

If we're looking for a gimmick to save DA3, then it's already over. Bioware needs to return to its roots and attempt to make something that will blow people away. Skyrim just set the bar a little higher, but Beth. has always been more about big worlds and less about the story/characters. DA3 needs to bring all of this to the table in spades. And I don't care if it takes them another four years to do it.

Modifié par TheReignmaker, 12 décembre 2011 - 06:38 .

[whykikyouwhy]

Just going to step in here briefly to comment on Flemeth - who is, to our knowledge, a shapeshifter. The old woman we saw in DA:O may or may not be her standard appearance. So too, how she looks in DA2 may not be her standard human garb either. She most likely shifts into a form that suits her needs.

Meeting Maric and later the Warden? A frail old woman works best, as it might be easier to convince the party to take her daughter along with them. Need to rescue a refugee and his/her family from darkspawn, *and* convince them to handle an errand for you? Why, a dragon then woman in armor might work best to give the impression of power and a little "don't anger the magical old lady."

So yeah, her armor may accentuate her figure, but I find that there's plenty of plot reasoning for her change in appearance between games.

Oh, did I mention "shapeshifter?"

Modifié par whykikyouwhy, 12 décembre 2011 - 06:55 .

[Uccio]

^ Not helping.

[RagingCyclone]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Just going to step in here briefly to comment on Flemeth - who is, to our knowledge, a shapeshifter. The old woman we saw in DA:O may or may not be her standard appearance. So too, how she looks in DA2 may not be her standard human garb either. She most likely shifts into a form that suits her needs.

Meeting Maric and later the Warden? A frail old woman works best, as it might be easier to convince the party to take her daughter along with them. Need to rescue a refugee and his/her family from darkspawn, *and* convince them to handle an errand for you? Why, a dragon then woman in armor might work best to give the impression of power and a little "don't anger the magical old lady."

So yeah, her armor may accentuate her figure, but I find that there's plenty of plot reasoning for her change in appearance between games.

Oh, didi I mention "shapeshifter?"

Very well said. Plus I remember someone posting earlier that Morrigan could not shapeshift into other human forms...not true. She states she learns nothing from taking another human's form so she does not, but does not confirm or deny that it is impossible. Also remember that she is asked about human and not elf or dwarf (they are supposedly different species). Either Flemeth or Morrigan could be anywhere in any form...and noone would be the wiser.

Modifié par RagingCyclone, 12 décembre 2011 - 06:49 .

[Uccio]

Face it guys, Flemeth in DA2 is a anime fan wet dream. A old witch with a body of 20 year old gymnastic and plastic ****** wearing a armor which needs to be put on wet and let it dry on.

Modifié par Ukki, 12 décembre 2011 - 06:57 .

[Atakuma]

Ukki wrote...

Face it guys, Flemeth in DA2 is a anime fan wet dream. A old witch with a body of 20 year old gymnastic and plastic ****** wearing a armor which needs to be put on wet and let it dry on.

What an asinine thing to say. Sweeping negative generalizations like this only detract from the conversation.

Modifié par Atakuma, 12 décembre 2011 - 07:14 .

[whykikyouwhy]

Being a fan of anime myself, I can say that Flemeth is *not* included in any steamy notions.

She's part Maleficent, part armored knight (her armor actually reminds me of artwork I've seen of Joan of Arc, save for the chest piece). If we want to start crying foul for a bit of cleavage, I suppose we could look back at Morrigan in DA:O, whose outfit was far more revealing than her now-armored mother.

Clearly her attire falls under the sway of personal opinion, but I would still maintain my stance that her new look makes sense for the situation, and her purposes.

[Realmzmaster]

Ukki wrote...

Face it guys, Flemeth in DA2 is a anime fan wet dream. A old witch with a body of 20 year old gymnastic and plastic ****** wearing a armor which needs to be put on wet and let it dry on.

And there is something inherently wrong with this? If so why? Older women cannot be sexy and look good doing it?

[Sylvianus]

Ukki wrote...

Face it guys, Flemeth in DA2 is a anime fan wet dream. A old witch with a body of 20 year old gymnastic and plastic ****** wearing a armor which needs to be put on wet and let it dry on.

I like this human, he understands.

This kind of comment has no relevance for me ( excuse for flemeth ), if the devs themselves have consciously changed the design because they thought it would be better for reasons outside of consistency, nothing to do with the story.

It is the intention that is most to be feared, not the change, in case some folks have not yet understood. This means that for a matter of fun, whimsical design, etc., in the story some things important  can be changed without regard to what is established, without regard to a true state of change that is really related to the character.

the story and characters are the strength of bioware, that's where they really focus, if they decide to change things regardless of consistency, of what they wrote, this strength is no longer a strength.

The same goes for Orsino, he became a boss, for reasons outside of the story, because it's fun, regardless of its personality, what is totally incomprehensible in the story and... ridiculous.

Yet again there, we could find too any pitiful excuse for that. So no.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 12 décembre 2011 - 07:24 .

[Uccio]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Ukki wrote...

Face it guys, Flemeth in DA2 is a anime fan wet dream. A old witch with a body of 20 year old gymnastic and plastic ****** wearing a armor which needs to be put on wet and let it dry on.

And there is something inherently wrong with this? If so why? Older women cannot be sexy and look good doing it?

There is nothing wrong with older women being sexy. Thats not the point.

[whykikyouwhy]

I suppose I find it rather presumptuous to assume that the devs made this change or that purely for fun and whimsy. Have they said anything to this effect? Have they declared "oh yeah, that changed because it made us laugh?" Not to my knowledge, so why would we make that leap?

Some things may not make sense for the story *thus far* - we're only two games in. Why would everything have to fall into a neat and tidy compartment at this juncture? Things may be revealed down the road that will double-back to things we are seeing now and provide sound explanations.

But declaring that the things we don't like or don't see the sense in are due to some need for a bawdy joke to be inserted, or out of laziness or what have you, seems terribly unfair.

[Zanallen]

Ukki wrote...

There is nothing wrong with older women being sexy. Thats not the point.

What is the point? That a shapeshifting demigod of a witch looks different from the first time we met her? Besides, given that Flemeth in DA:O used the same body as every other female human, including the warden and Leliana, she already had a 20 something gymnast's body with a rather impressive bust for an old lady. Her robes just made her dumpy looking.

Modifié par Zanallen, 12 décembre 2011 - 07:34 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

Bringing her back for the sake of bringing her back wouldn't work. I would prefer that Morrigan comes back on a high note and not for purely emotional reasons.

[Uccio]

^^ So you need to be told at this point? Check what Sylvianus wrote earlier, that explains it.

Modifié par Ukki, 12 décembre 2011 - 07:37 .

[Sylvianus]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

But declaring that the things we don't like or don't see the sense in are due to some need for a bawdy joke to be inserted, or out of laziness or what have you, seems terribly unfair.

What's wrong and unfair is make believe that I say that because I would not like the look of Flemeth. These times, I see too many people  trying to dismiss the opinion of some people with this argument rehashed, maybe, we could try to elevate the debate.

I had nothing against the look of Flemeth, I was even pleased until I read the comments about the reasons for her change. That's where I was pissed off, because that's really important.

For Orsino, I didn't understand why he had gone mad, and that was pitiful to me. But I did not care, until I learn again that he became a boss, because DA2  needed two bosses at the end. Meredith / so also Orsino.

This isn't a good way for a good story, consistently.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 12 décembre 2011 - 07:41 .