216 réponses à ce sujet

[Zanallen]

Ukki wrote...

^^ So you need to be told at this point? Check what Sylvianus wrote earlier, that explains it.

Sylvianus' post about Bioware changing things just because? Yeah, no. You'll need some facts to back up that particular statement. The fact remains that Flemeth can look like whatever the hell she wants to look like. She an incredibly powerful, nigh immortal being. She arrived as a dragon to save Hawke. Transforming into a non-imposing old coot after that would be nonsensical.

[Sylvianus]

The fact remains that Flemeth can look like whatever the hell she wants to look like

what fact ? And that wasn't why she changed.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 12 décembre 2011 - 07:49 .

[Uccio]

I don´t need no facts. The game is full of anime related issues which are obvious if you are not blind. This "immortal powerhouse" just happens to look like anime wet dream? Right.

[Realmzmaster]

Ukki wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Ukki wrote...

Face it guys, Flemeth in DA2 is a anime fan wet dream. A old witch with a body of 20 year old gymnastic and plastic ****** wearing a armor which needs to be put on wet and let it dry on.

And there is something inherently wrong with this? If so why? Older women cannot be sexy and look good doing it?

There is nothing wrong with older women being sexy. Thats not the point.

What is the point? That Bioware decided to make Flemeth look more impressive in DA2 than DAO. Her apperance in DAO fit the image she wanted to project. Her image in DA2 show her giving the image of a confident, bad to the bone women. I see nothing wrong with that.

[Uccio]

^ DA2 Flemeth is not impressive. That hair dew alone is ridiculous.

Modifié par Ukki, 12 décembre 2011 - 07:53 .

[whykikyouwhy]

@Sylvianus - My comment was not specific to Flemeth and her new appearance. Rather I was remarking on how assumptions are made about *why* the devs have made certain decisions. Unless they step in and make outright statements as to why something looks different, or why lore may seemingly be altered, I think it's unfair to immediately brand those decisions as something done without consideration to the overall narrative, or done purely for fun and/or titillation.

[Zanallen]

Sylvianus wrote...

what fact ?And that wasn't why she changed.

The fact that Flemeth is a shapeshifter. She can change her form. That is a fact. When asked if she can make herself look like other people, Morrigan seems to sidestep the question. Flemeth is far more powerful that Morrigan. There is nothing in lore that says that a woman who can transform into a dragon can't adjust her looks.

So why was she changed? You claim the devs have said why. Can you produce quotes or links? You claim it was changed in order to create a fun, whimsical design. To me, that says they did it because, what the hell, why not? So please show us where this was stated by Bioware.

And just in case, you said: "I had nothing against the look of Flemeth, I was even pleased until I read the comments about the reasons for her change. That's where I was pissed off, because that's really important." and "This kind of comment has no relevance for me ( excuse for flemeth ), if the devs themselves have consciously changed the design because they thought it would be better for reasons outside of consistency, nothing to do with the story.

It is the intention that is most to be feared, not the change, in case some folks have not yet understood. This means that for a matter of fun, whimsical design, etc., in the story some things important  can be changed without regard to what is established, without regard to a true state of change that is really related to the character."

Modifié par Zanallen, 12 décembre 2011 - 08:00 .

[Wulfram]

I do hope we haven't seen the last of Flemeth's "old coot" form. It's more interesting than her wearing her power openly.

[Realmzmaster]

Ukki wrote...

^ DA2 Flemeth is not impressive. That hair dew alone is ridiculous.

Reminds me of Tina Tuner as Aunty Entity. I see nothing wrong with that!

[Sylvianus]

Zanallen wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

what fact ?And that wasn't why she changed.

The fact that Flemeth is a shapeshifter. She can change her form. That is a fact. When asked if she can make herself look like other people, Morrigan seems to sidestep the question. Flemeth is far more powerful that Morrigan. There is nothing in lore that says that a woman who can transform into a dragon can't adjust her looks.

So, it isn't a fact. that's just your own interpretation. , Morrigan can take the appearance of anyone, it does not say that she can turn into anything, by altering her youth or old age.

Flemeth has the same physical appearance, with sex appeal. The old woman immortal who must look like a bombastic witch.

And for the rest I stand absolutely on  what I said. Read the post of Realmaster, why.  I like the fact that it doesn't deny the motivations behind, even if he agree with that. And no sorry, I won't seek post from monh and month ago. Some threads can't even be found before nine month ago.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 12 décembre 2011 - 08:26 .

[hoorayforicecream]

Oh look, someone's claiming that their speculation is more correct than someone else's speculation.

[Zanallen]

Sylvianus wrote...

So, it isn't a fact. that's just your own interpretation. , Morrigan can take the appearance of anyone, it does not say that she can turn into anything, by altering her youth or old age.

Flemeth has the same physical appearance, with sex appeal. The old woman immortal who must look like a bombastic witch.

And for the rest I stand absolutely on  what I said. Read the post of Realmaster, why.  I like the fact that it doesn't deny the motivations behind, even if he agree with that. And no sorry, I won't seek post from monh and month ago. Some threads can't even be found before nine month ago.

Except we already know that shapeshifters can transform into different versions of the same creature. This is shown with the spider to corrupted spider upgrade. If one can change from one kind of spider to another, then one should be able to change from one form of human to another.

Personally, I deny your assumption that it was done on the whim or just because. I think they gave Flemeth a different form precisely for story reasons. Hawke and co were being attacked. Flemeth, for reasons unknown to us, decides that Hawke is important (Obviously beyond taking the amulet to the alter given her esoteric response when first meeting him). She'll have to save him. Displaying that much power, even if only using spells and no shapeshifting, would give away the fact that she isn't some harmless old coot. So why try and downplay her abilities? She used awe and intimidation instead of guile to get what she wanted out of Hawke.

Modifié par Zanallen, 12 décembre 2011 - 08:36 .

[Sylvianus]

My interpretation is based on what I read. I gave my opinion on this thread, that's all,. Nothing forces you to read it or to accept it. I do not need to convince you in particular.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 12 décembre 2011 - 08:32 .

[Sylvianus]

Wulfram wrote...

I do hope we haven't seen the last of Flemeth's "old coot" form. It's more interesting than her wearing her power openly.

At this point, it does not matter anymore, for me. The aim was to give an impression of strength and therefore now it would be useless to return to the old form of a false weak woman.

[Ramus Quaritch]

I agree completely. Mary Kirby did say that Morrigan "best symbolizes the world and the conflicts within it." With that said, Morrigan best fits in Dragon Age: Origins darker setting. I'm worried DA2's brighter, flashier art style would not mix well with Morrigan.

[lv12medic]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Oh look, someone's claiming that their speculation is more correct than someone else's speculation.

I speculate that you are speculating that somone is speculating on someone's speculation of speculating that someone else's speculation is wrong.

[Zanallen]

Ukki wrote...

I don´t need no facts. The game is full of anime related issues which are obvious if you are not blind. This "immortal powerhouse" just happens to look like anime wet dream? Right.

Lol, if they were going for the anime wet dream the devs wouldn't have kept her as an old woman. Very, very few anime have hot grandmothers. They just adjusted the style of witch she was modeled after. DA:O Flemeth is very much your classic Halloween/Macbeth kind of witch. An ugly old woman with a dirty robe and no doubt a cauldron of bubbling brew set over a firepit. She's the old witch form of the queen in Snow White. Meanwhile, DA2 Flemeth is more your evil enchantress style witch. She is the evil queen form in Snow White or Maleficent from Sleeping Beauty. Cold, deadly beauty with an undeniable strength radiating through her.

[Zanallen]

Personally, I find it ludicrous to think that Flemeth cannot change her form as she pleases. Let's look at what we know shapeshifters are capable of. Morrigan can transform into a cat, a spider and a bear. This alone shows that she can adjust her form into a wide variety, able to increase or decrease her mass at will and even adjust the amount of limbs a given form has. At master level, she can even transform into variations of her spider and bear form. This shows that she can shift into different versions of the same creature. That alone should clue people in on her being able to become a different human. And let's not forget flying swarm. This suggests that the shapeshifter can split herself into multiple creatures. This might explain how Flemeth could put a part of herself into that amulet she has Hawke deliver. If the shapeshifter can adjust their mass as they please and split into multiple forms, what is to stop one from shifting into two dwarves if they wanted two? No, barring dev intervention, there is no doubt in my mind that shapeshifters can change themselves to look like other humans. Morrigan was either sidestepping the question or wasn't powerful enough to do it yet.

[eroeru]

liesandpropaganda wrote...

sigh

i still can't believe people are waving this "comparison" picture around in order to prove something

any face (even the default Marian duh) would look ugly in that particular scene with that particular animation

find an emotionally neutral scene and make a fair comparison

but of course, why do that when this grotesque screenshot serves your purpose so much better

We found that these characters looked stupid in the whole, not just in these pics. Do you not understand that people feel disappointed if characters are not up to their aesthetic/style standard? My personal honest opinion is that all DA2 characters, some more some less - especially Alistair and Zev though - looked and felt awful, nothing more. You cannot say "no" to this, not if you don't want to be a troll that is.

You can say that you liked the new artwork, or "meh" or something. But don't come claim people are not entitled to their preferences.

[whykikyouwhy]

eroeru wrote...

liesandpropaganda wrote...

sigh

i still can't believe people are waving this "comparison" picture around in order to prove something

any face (even the default Marian duh) would look ugly in that particular scene with that particular animation

find an emotionally neutral scene and make a fair comparison

but of course, why do that when this grotesque screenshot serves your purpose so much better

We found that these characters looked stupid in the whole, not just in these pics. Do you not understand that people feel disappointed if characters are not up to their aesthetic/style standard? My personal honest opinion is that all DA2 characters, some more some less - especially Alistair and Zev though - looked and felt awful, nothing more. You cannot say "no" to this, not if you don't want to be a troll that is.

You can say that you liked the new artwork, or "meh" or something. But don't come claim people are not entitled to their preferences.

I don't believe that there was any attempt to troll. What I took away from liesandpropaganda's post was that the right-most pic of Morrigan was displaying an odd expression. So in comparison to a neutral expression (as in the left screenshot), it stands out and seems out of place, or incongruent.

There was nothing in her post that claimed that anyone was not entitled to their preference or opinion. It was merely a suggestion to find a more even-keeled basis for comparison.

[eroeru]

That's not the point. What is actually discussed is not whether these characters look awful in the pictures, it is whether a person found these characters feel awful in the game they played... And in case of Morrigan it's "given the evidence we do have + the experience with other recurring characters that were in DA2, it's likely that we'd have hated the placement of Morrigan in DA2 as well - at least purely from a stylistic perspective (which is very important, mind you)".

This is indeed speculation, but what bad is in speculating? It's more often meaningful/useful, and moreso, than hindsight... 

liesandpropaganda wrote...

sigh

i still can't believe people are waving this "comparison" picture around in order to prove something

This is being arrogantly critical towards a post without understanding the underlying meaning of it.

Modifié par eroeru, 13 décembre 2011 - 01:56 .

[Rawgrim]

If a shapeshifter can shape into another human being he\\she would also be able to make herself younger. Ergo fixing various health problems. This can be done over and over again, and ends with the person doing it being immortal. This goes against the lore. Bigtime. Since Flemeth is using daughters to keep herself young.

[hoorayforicecream]

Rawgrim wrote...

If a shapeshifter can shape into another human being heshe would also be able to make herself younger.

Citation needed. Edited to clarify: Looking younger and actually being younger are two totally different things.

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 13 décembre 2011 - 02:17 .

[addiction21]

Rawgrim wrote...

If a shapeshifter can shape into another human being heshe would also be able to make herself younger. Ergo fixing various health problems. This can be done over and over again, and ends with the person doing it being immortal. This goes against the lore. Bigtime. Since Flemeth is using daughters to keep herself young.

What lore? Would you mind pointing  out where it is said or explained that is how shapeshifting works for dragonage setting.

[Rawgrim]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

If a shapeshifter can shape into another human being heshe would also be able to make herself younger.

Citation needed. Edited to clarify: Looking younger and actually being younger are two totally different things.

True, when it comes to the mind, at least. But if a shapeshifter can change into other human forms, she could shapeshift her body into that of a young person. She can turn into a bear, for example. That means growing entirely different cells in her body. Pretty much the same with turning into someone younger. You magically grow new cells. Meaning you can turn your body young again.