216 réponses à ce sujet

[Rawgrim]

addiction21 wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

If a shapeshifter can shape into another human being heshe would also be able to make herself younger. Ergo fixing various health problems. This can be done over and over again, and ends with the person doing it being immortal. This goes against the lore. Bigtime. Since Flemeth is using daughters to keep herself young.

What lore? Would you mind pointing  out where it is said or explained that is how shapeshifting works for dragonage setting.

Morrigan says it. And after she does that, it ends up in the codex. That means its lore.

[Sylvianus]

flemeth is not able of altering her body, it is nonsense to believe that. Otherwise she would never regret her lost youth.

And what' s the point about looking younger once, and not allways when she admits how she was beautiful and loved by mens and that she regret that ?

When to take the form of a lost youth, without a result on her body, as if it was only an optical illusion,that seems incredibly terrible, boring as hell. I hope that's not that.

What is interesting with Flemeth is :

We do not know what she can do really, what are her limits, and at the same time, we know she has limits. that's what's interesting, we're not fixed on her capabilities.

So to imagine a kind of goddess superpower, without limitation, that would be capable of everything and do anything is so.... It sounds ridiculously silly. It's as if everything was good spirit in dao turn into something more simple, obvious and totally uninteresting.

Yeah, Flemeth can do everything, let's just be happy about that.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 13 décembre 2011 - 02:27 .

[Icinix]

How about they get "Dragon Age" back into the franchise rather than..

..whatever that diversion was they made and slapped DA2 on it.

Then start on what characters to bring back.

[whykikyouwhy]

Changing one's form does not necessarily mean that the being *is* that form in mind or spirit. She would retain her memories, her knowledge, all her regrets and woes. Regretting lost youth is as much about lamenting the loss of innocence and simpler times as it is about lamenting lost physical vitality.

[hoorayforicecream]

Rawgrim wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

If a shapeshifter can shape into another human being heshe would also be able to make herself younger.

Citation needed. Edited to clarify: Looking younger and actually being younger are two totally different things.

True, when it comes to the mind, at least. But if a shapeshifter can change into other human forms, she could shapeshift her body into that of a young person. She can turn into a bear, for example. That means growing entirely different cells in her body. Pretty much the same with turning into someone younger. You magically grow new cells. Meaning you can turn your body young again.

If this logic were true, then they could simply shapeshift into younger versions of themselves whenever they please, regardless of whether they can shapeshift into other humans or not. If you growing new cells by shapeshifting, then you grow new cells by shapeshifting.

On a side note, I wouldn't try to use any sort of scientific explanation as the basis for it. If you want to open that can of worms, there's a whole slew of other physical laws already being broken by shapeshifting that you're going to have to address.

[Sylvianus]

whykikyouwhy wrote...
Regretting lost youth is as much about lamenting the loss of innocence and simpler times as it is about lamenting lost physical vitality.

Well, I disagree.

As  Morrigan said, Flemeth also loved back home full of men in her childhood ( Anyone know how old is Morrigan ? ). It is obvious to me that her lost youth is a major concern for her. For me it is something that must be absolutely not underestimated. Flemeth made ​​several comments ironic, sarcastic ( jokes ) but she is also in nostalgia , and that seems to me a true reflection of what she thinks. Not just an old grandmother lamenting for the sake of lamenting.

Hence precisely the rumors on her way to rejuvenate, and what Morrigan is afraid for herself. The rumor about her daughters who disappeared and is rumored to have been used to Flemeth's goals. With all the men she was in bed, it would not surprise me she had lots of children. And besides it would probably be part of her plans if she made ​​love with lots of men. : Give birth to girls. And as we see it, Morrigan is alone.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 13 décembre 2011 - 02:53 .

[LordKinoda]

Personally, I would love to see Morrigan come back. I think she HAS to in some capacity some time in the future, if only to duke it out with Flemeth again.

That said, I would much rather prefer a return of the Warden (fully voiced) and Morrigan along with him. And not just the return of my version of the Warden, but ALL permutations, and ALL of them fully voiced, so SIX different voice actors. And don't give me that tired ass line about it costing too much money ! An estimation of TOR, DAO, DA2, ME, and ME2 sales has to put Bioware WELL over 1 billion dollars. They can afford to pay SIX people to star in a game.

And the art style would have to switch back too. This all a pipe dream ? Maybe. But I think THAT would seriously be a great way to "save" the DA franchise. But what do I know, I'm just a gamer with a big imagination.

[Realmzmaster]

Icinix wrote...

How about they get "Dragon Age" back into the franchise rather than..

..whatever that diversion was they made and slapped DA2 on it.

Then start on what characters to bring back.

What do you mean by get Dragon Age back into the franchise? I do not think it ever left. So for me there is no getting back what is already there . Now YMMV.

[Rawgrim]

(what does YMMV mean?)

[Aaleel]

Rawgrim wrote...

(what does YMMV mean?)

"Your mileage may vary"

Basically what you get out of it isn't what I get out of it.

[Realmzmaster]

Rawgrim wrote...

(what does YMMV mean?)

Your Mileage May Vary.

[Mr.House]

Icinix wrote...

How about they get "Dragon Age" back into the franchise rather than..

..whatever that diversion was they made and slapped DA2 on it.

Then start on what characters to bring back.

This makes no sense. DA never left.

[Sylvianus]

flemeth is only interested in herself. as she said, she does not care this world which was rude with her, many times, obviously she doesn't want its end either. The blight, which destroys everything, forced her to help the wardens, because it would have also destroyed her like she said again.

What is interesting is that despite Flemeth can be considered powerful in DAO, immortal, we could see her faults, the same as Morrigan. A smart and selfish woman, who loves her beauty (in her youth, but she regrets it ) and who doesn't hesitate to sacrifice other things for her own sake, who fears nothing and knows what it's better.

Flemeth to me has a mad desire to shine again, and her immortality makes this feeling exacerbated, and visceral. So, the rumors.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 13 décembre 2011 - 03:19 .

[Dave of Canada]

How about we copy paste Origins, all it's characters and change their names except for Morrigan. I'm sure it would sell.

[Zanallen]

Rawgrim wrote...

True, when it comes to the mind, at least. But if a shapeshifter can change into other human forms, she could shapeshift her body into that of a young person. She can turn into a bear, for example. That means growing entirely different cells in her body. Pretty much the same with turning into someone younger. You magically grow new cells. Meaning you can turn your body young again.

What? On one hand you are saying that shapeshifters cannot make themselves younger because it goes against lore, but on the other hand you say that they can become bears and grow new cells. And then you equate growing new cells to become a bear with growing new cells to become younger. So which is it?

[Zanallen]

Sylvianus wrote...

flemeth is not able of altering her body, it is nonsense to believe that. Otherwise she would never regret her lost youth.

And what' s the point about looking younger once, and not allways when she admits how she was beautiful and loved by mens and that she regret that ?

When to take the form of a lost youth, without a result on her body, as if it was only an optical illusion,that seems incredibly terrible, boring as hell. I hope that's not that.

What is interesting with Flemeth is :

We do not know what she can do really, what are her limits, and at the same time, we know she has limits. that's what's interesting, we're not fixed on her capabilities.

So to imagine a kind of goddess superpower, without limitation, that would be capable of everything and do anything is so.... It sounds ridiculously silly. It's as if everything was good spirit in dao turn into something more simple, obvious and totally uninteresting.
Yeah, Flemeth can do everything, let's just be happy about that.

We actually don't know that she has limits. All we actually know about Flemeth is that she grows older and we assume she can be killed. However, she can get around the growing older bit by jumping ship and taking over younger people, similar to archdemons and Corphyeus. And we don't even really know that since all we have is Morrigan's word on it.

[Rawgrim]

Zanallen wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

True, when it comes to the mind, at least. But if a shapeshifter can change into other human forms, she could shapeshift her body into that of a young person. She can turn into a bear, for example. That means growing entirely different cells in her body. Pretty much the same with turning into someone younger. You magically grow new cells. Meaning you can turn your body young again.

What? On one hand you are saying that shapeshifters cannot make themselves younger because it goes against lore, but on the other hand you say that they can become bears and grow new cells. And then you equate growing new cells to become a bear with growing new cells to become younger. So which is it?

I am guessing it came out abit wrong. What i meant was: If a shapeshifter can shapeshift into a bear. And therefore grow new cells, why shouldn`t the shapeshifter be able to shift into a younger human form. Technically by just growing new cells (cells die when we grow old after all).

[Zanallen]

Rawgrim wrote...

I am guessing it came out abit wrong. What i meant was: If a shapeshifter can shapeshift into a bear. And therefore grow new cells, why shouldn`t the shapeshifter be able to shift into a younger human form. Technically by just growing new cells (cells die when we grow old after all).

Ah, alright then. But yes, shapeshifters can do insane things already. Being able to change into a different type of human seems like it would be the easiest form of shapeshifting. There is absolutely no reason why they couldn't do it.

[Johnny20]

I want to see Morrigan back, and I want to see Morrigan back in a larger roll then say, a cameo. Either way I'll still buy Dragon Age 3 and all story advancing DLC and or expansions.

Why? Because I'm a sucker.

[Huntress]

Get Morrigan back = Franchise saved?? lol.. Now if they add Me the game get 100% improvement! meh!.. ok, are you serious? Morrigan is important but not as important as the warden or hawke! She is even less important that Anders if hawke let him go... wake the hell up kid. Now if the warden died Morrigan is important yes but no KID/godsoulbaby and thats why she go to Orlais at the end of DAO.

Important character in DA are:
King Alistair/Warden's ( dead or alive)/hawke/Flemeth/Sandal/Anders( if alive)/Loghain ( if alive)/Sten ( from DAO) the divine's ( white and dark)/Aveline ( some how I see her more important to all this that just a "guard captain")/ Empress Celine/ Orzammar king/New hero/Tallis ( she could be a very good allied or a very nasty nemesis).

Worth to be seen or to be mention again :cassandra/leliana/wynne/shale/morrigan/merril/Fenris/bethany or carver ( who ever survive)/Charade ( been related to the champion)/Varric and the champion love interest.

Modifié par Huntress, 13 décembre 2011 - 02:51 .

[Teddie Sage]

Not everything is ABOUT Morrigan. She gives you a few jabs here and there and will probably save you if you go for the Dark Ritual ending, but she isn't essential to the plot at all. You don't even have to befriend her. Like Huntress said, the Warden and Hawke ARE the essential characters.

[Plaintiff]

Zanallen wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

I am guessing it came out abit wrong. What i meant was: If a shapeshifter can shapeshift into a bear. And therefore grow new cells, why shouldn`t the shapeshifter be able to shift into a younger human form. Technically by just growing new cells (cells die when we grow old after all).

Ah, alright then. But yes, shapeshifters can do insane things already. Being able to change into a different type of human seems like it would be the easiest form of shapeshifting. There is absolutely no reason why they couldn't do it.

Morrigan provides a reason when you ask her that exact question in Origins. Whether or not it's true might be worth debating, but it does exist. Morrigan says that part of learning how to take on another form is by studying the animal; learning to move and think as it does. Because she is already human, she learns nothing from studying them, and thus, cannot become a different one. She explicitly states that her current human form is the only one she possesses, and while she may be lying, there's no reason to assume she is.

As for Flemeth's makeover; What she looked like in Origins could hardly be considered canonical. Design options were extremely limited. She doesn't even get a unique haircut like Morrigan and Duncan did. For such an important charcater in the series, I think making her stand out from the rest of the LEGO people is entirely warranted, if not necessary.

[alex90c]

Teddie Sage wrote...

Not everything is ABOUT Morrigan. She gives you a few jabs here and there and will probably save you if you go for the Dark Ritual ending, but she isn't essential to the plot at all. You don't even have to befriend her. Like Huntress said, the Warden and Hawke ARE the essential characters.

Hawke... essential?

Yeah....

[RagingCyclone]

Huntress wrote...

Get Morrigan back = Franchise saved?? lol.. Now if they add Me the game get 100% improvement! meh!.. ok, are you serious? Morrigan is important but not as important as the warden or hawke! She is even less important that Anders if hawke let him go... wake the hell up kid. Now if the warden died Morrigan is important yes but no KID/godsoulbaby and thats why she go to Orlais at the end of DAO.

Important character in DA are:
King Alistair/Warden's ( dead or alive)/hawke/Flemeth/Sandal/Anders( if alive)/Loghain ( if alive)/Sten ( from DAO) the divine's ( white and dark)/Aveline ( some how I see her more important to all this that just a "guard captain")/ Empress Celine/ Orzammar king/New hero/Tallis ( she could be a very good allied or a very nasty nemesis).

Worth to be seen or to be mention again :cassandra/leliana/wynne/shale/morrigan/merril/Fenris/bethany or carver ( who ever survive)/Charade ( been related to the champion)/Varric and the champion love interest.

Ah...but the characters you mention are important to a small portion of Thedas. In the overall scheme the OP may be on to something regarding Morrigan, but not just her. As both Morrigan and Flemeth were mentioned (and in the case of Flemeth seen) in both games, I have a feeling that as the series (franchise) progresses the whole of Thedas will eventually come down to a conflict between the mother and the daughter. So far their roles have been supportive to the protagonists, but I can see an underlying theme where eventually the main conflict of the 'Dragon Age'...the century the games are named for...will be between the two. We only have glimpses thus far, but to dismiss the importance of the two...I have to wonder were you paying attention to what Flemeth was saying?

[Sylvianus]

Zanallen wrote...
We actually don't know that she has limits. All we actually know about Flemeth is that she grows older and we assume she can be killed. However, she can get around the growing older bit by jumping ship and taking over younger people, similar to archdemons and Corphyeus. And we don't even really know that since all we have is Morrigan's word on it.

If Flemeth didn't have limits, she wouldn't need the warden, she wouldn't help them in the tower, because she was worried. She could do everything without anybody. She wouldn't fear for her life while Morrigan is trying to kill her. She wouldn't need Hawk and the dalish people. She wouldn't help Marric against a promise.

For example, Flemeth can feel things coming in advance,, but that does not mean that she knows when these events will occur and whether it's correctly interpreted, as she said in the book of David Gaider. '( stolen throne )

Besides, She said to Marric, Loghain will betray him, it was not the case. She was wrong. Loghain never betrayed Marric. Loghain betrayed Cailan. This is a strong indication that she has limits, even if she is very powerful.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 13 décembre 2011 - 05:30 .