210 réponses à ce sujet

[Tom12]

Before you say omg another elf thread, my intention is actually to get bioware some ideas of how to let a "distinct" elf look like, other then making them look ugly (the majority doesnt like them, its not a hate thread in anyway), bioware also doesnt plan to change the elves to normal (dao/Tolkien) elves because their main intention was to make them more distinct 

So i wanted to ask you, how you would like the da3 elves to look like but still letting them look"Distinct"!?
You also can post pictures to explain how you want them to look like..,

Some people still dont know which elves are being liked more because an old poll had the option *on the fence* in one older thread, so i made a poll and i suggest everyone should vote on it,

social.bioware.com/2243338/polls/27160/

Modifié par Tom12, 10 décembre 2011 - 06:07 .

[Salaya]

I'm sorry to say something like this (since the point of the thread is another), but I want to state that I see a core problem in the idea of "disctintive" design. I don't think it's a good way for Bioware regarding Dragon Age franchise, and I sincerely hope they restrain from it.

That said, I would add that since it seems unlikely that they step back from the distinctive philosophy, I want elves with human traits. Whatever they do to make them distinctive, please, don't do it by sacrificing their humanity.

[Tom12]

well i love tolkien (original) elves really much and i hate the idea too, that they want them to look distinctive but i dont see it coming that they are going to change it back,
david gaider already said that they wont go back to the "humans with pointy ears" (how disappointing).

so, i wanted to make this thread about how to let elves look distinctive but still letting them look attractive

Modifié par Tom12, 10 décembre 2011 - 02:47 .

[tmp7704]

distinctive and mesmerizing.

[MassStorm]

I love Tolkien Elves too. they are marvelous and wise. I really cannot stand how they have mistreated the elves in DA series....like beggars and prostitutes for the filthy and hypocrite humans, Really hope they change this for future games and gave back to the elves their common features accepted in every (almost) series......which ones? Beauty, Wisdom and Honorable behavior. The elves have style and it really blow my eyes seeing them in this state.....that is pretty much one of the reason why DA series did NOT attract me that much

[tmp7704]

MassStorm wrote...

I love Tolkien Elves too. they are marvelous and wise. I really cannot stand how they have mistreated the elves in DA series....like beggars and prostitutes for the filthy and hypocrite humans

Thought having the elves treated as subjugated species they *are* in the DA setting was an interesting twist, one that actually made me like the DA elves, compared to the usual snotty superior image i have trouble even tolerating.

It was enough in itself to make them "disctinct" imo, pity it apparently must be all about excessive visual disctinction now and story means jack ****.

Modifié par tmp7704, 10 décembre 2011 - 03:04 .

[TEWR]

Tom12 wrote...

Before you say omg another elf thread, my intention is actually to get bioware some ideas of how to let a "distinct" elf look like, other then making them look ugly (the majority doesnt like them, its not a hate thread in anyway), bioware also doesnt plan to change the elves to normal (dao/Tolkien) elves because their main intention was to make them more distinct 

So i wanted to ask you, how you would like the da3 elves to look like but still letting them look"Distinct"!?
You also can post pictures to explain how you want them to look like..,

I've bolded this key area because of two main reasons:

1) The most recent DA Elf poll was fairly even because the people who said it didn't matter to them could swing either way. It really didn't matter to them.

2) It's hard to judge what the majority feels based off of the forums, which is a minority of the amount of players out there. Meaning the amount of people on here who dislike the DAII Elves is not indicative of how many in the world dislike the DAII Elves. It could be that the majority of players actually do like the DAII Elves, but many just can't get to a computer or don't know about the BSN or don't even have a computer, so they can't voice their opinions.

[TEWR]

tmp7704 wrote...

MassStorm wrote...

I love Tolkien Elves too. they are marvelous and wise. I really cannot stand how they have mistreated the elves in DA series....like beggars and prostitutes for the filthy and hypocrite humans

Thought having the elves treated as subjugated species they *are* in the DA setting was an interesting twist, one that actually made me like the DA elves, compared to the usual snotty superior image i have trouble even tolerating.

It was enough in itself to make them "disctinct" imo, pity it apparently must be all about excessive visual disctinction now and story means jack ****.

"Come see the violence inherent in the system!"

That's all that comes to mind right now.

[MassStorm]

tmp7704 wrote...

MassStorm wrote...

I love Tolkien Elves too. they are marvelous and wise. I really cannot stand how they have mistreated the elves in DA series....like beggars and prostitutes for the filthy and hypocrite humans

Thought having the elves treated as subjugated species they *are* in the DA setting was an interesting twist, one that actually made me like the DA elves, compared to the usual snotty superior image i have trouble even tolerating.

It was enough in itself to make them "disctinct" imo, pity it apparently must be all about excessive visual disctinction now and story means jack ****.

You seems to have trouble accepting that someone is superior to humans...in reality you will discover that even in DA dalish elves are morally superior to humans which are corrupts and evil.....god how much i miss my past Elven adventures in DAO killing every human i can.

To OP well when you are speaking about elves what i have in mind is pretty much this 



or this

[Wulfram]

tmp7704 wrote...

Thought having the elves treated as subjugated species they *are* in the DA setting was an interesting twist, one that actually made me like the DA elves, compared to the usual snotty superior image i have trouble even tolerating.

It was enough in itself to make them "disctinct" imo, pity it apparently must be all about excessive visual disctinction now and story means jack ****.

Not really.  Bitter Wood Elves are standard issue, and the Dalish aren't exactly lacking in snottyness.  While City Elves are just generic oppressed dudes, who even Bioware are pretty clearly lacking any ideas with - the Alienage only exists in DA2 as a place for exiled Wood Elves to live.

[Tom12]

MassStorm wrote...
To OP well when you are speaking about elves what i have in mind is pretty much this 

OMG! This ^  if they would let them look like this they would even top the witcher 2' elves... 

Modifié par Tom12, 10 décembre 2011 - 03:26 .

[tmp7704]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

1) The most recent DA Elf poll was fairly even because the people who said it didn't matter to them could swing either way. It really didn't matter to them.

That's not "even" -- on one hand you have a group of people who either like or tolerate one option, and on the other hand you have equally sized group of people who unanimously like the other option.
 
Not to mention it's dubious to selectively assign all these who tolerate both options to one side, but none to the other. It'd be probably more logical to either assign them to both sides or ignore altogether because, not caring either way, these people meet *both* conditions.

[Tom12]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Tom12 wrote...

Before you say omg another elf thread, my intention is actually to get bioware some ideas of how to let a "distinct" elf look like, other then making them look ugly (the majority doesnt like them, its not a hate thread in anyway), bioware also doesnt plan to change the elves to normal (dao/Tolkien) elves because their main intention was to make them more distinct 

So i wanted to ask you, how you would like the da3 elves to look like but still letting them look"Distinct"!?
You also can post pictures to explain how you want them to look like..,

I've bolded this key area because of two main reasons:

1) The most recent DA Elf poll was fairly even because the people who said it didn't matter to them could swing either way. It really didn't matter to them.

2) It's hard to judge what the majority feels based off of the forums, which is a minority of the amount of players out there. Meaning the amount of people on here who dislike the DAII Elves is not indicative of how many in the world dislike the DAII Elves. It could be that the majority of players actually do like the DAII Elves, but many just can't get to a computer or don't know about the BSN or don't even have a computer, so they can't voice their opinions.

Still you can compare it with da2 art style vs dao art style many preffered the darkspawn from dao and seeing how bad da2 was (to some people) i would suggest bioware to change the major things from da2 that they changed from dao, the people that it didnt matter to, were mostly the people that didnt liked both or liked both so they imo shouldnt get counted, and 2 the people that arent on bsn arent mostly even bioware fans
and biowares aim to make elves distinctive is somehow a useless thing imo because i had a friend who didnt know what da2 was so i showed it to him and he even couldnt tell the difference between humans and elves in da2, so besides the fans not much people will see it, so i suggest bioware to let the elves be the elves they are supposed to be (tolkien elves)

Modifié par Tom12, 10 décembre 2011 - 03:25 .

[tmp7704]

MassStorm wrote...

You seems to have trouble accepting that someone is superior to humans...

I have trouble with stories which feature characters superior in every aspect, no matter the species. It's the same reaction people get to Mary Sues -- perfections are boring.

[Tom12]

tmp7704 wrote...

MassStorm wrote...

You seems to have trouble accepting that someone is superior to humans...

I have trouble with stories which feature characters superior in every aspect, no matter the species. It's the same reaction people get to Mary Sues -- perfections are boring.

And making a whole race in every aspect ugly makes them also boring the dao elves had a great story i was really driven in by it and i said to my self hate humans for what they did to the elves, the city elf origin for example, in da2 they are just looking ugly and are just dumb. bioware has left nothing interesting/attractive about them. I must even say when i see like merrill or fenris, the elves deserved what humans did to them

Modifié par Tom12, 10 décembre 2011 - 03:34 .

[MassStorm]

tmp7704 wrote...

MassStorm wrote...

You seems to have trouble accepting that someone is superior to humans...

I have trouble with stories which feature characters superior in every aspect, no matter the species. It's the same reaction people get to Mary Sues -- perfections are boring.

But elves in Tolkien are far from perfect they are indeed superior but are a race in decay with few numbers and practically no more power to face the enemy. You should have read the books then you would know that the only thing they have offered is their wisdom and honrable behaviour. 

By the way from being a Mary Sues to slaves there is a BIG difference maybe something in between??? I think Elder Scrolls built the Elves in a credible way. In every fantasy Elves are ancient and magic beings they should be wiser than humans don't you think?? At least from merely living in the world before humans do...or you are so humanocentric that you cannot accept humans are not that perfect.....you should be annoyed even in ME then where humanity is the galactical Mary Sue

[Salaya]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

...

1) The most recent DA Elf poll was fairly even because the people who said it didn't matter to them could swing either way. It really didn't matter to them.

2) It's hard to judge what the majority feels based off of the forums, which is a minority of the amount of players out there. Meaning the amount of people on here who dislike the DAII Elves is not indicative of how many in the world dislike the DAII Elves. It could be that the majority of players actually do like the DAII Elves, but many just can't get to a computer or don't know about the BSN or don't even have a computer, so they can't voice their opinions.

I agree with your point 2 (nonetheless, I see some value in the fact that majority has "spoken" in the forums; what kind of value... well, thats arguable )

But, it's not true that the poll, adding the "undecided" votes, could swing to one way or another. If you take all the votes stating the "I dont like DA2 elves" and compare to the "I dont like them" plus the "undecided" ones, the "I dont like option" still keeps to its majority

[tmp7704]

Wulfram wrote...

Not really.  Bitter Wood Elves are standard issue, and the Dalish aren't exactly lacking in snottyness.

I'm not even aware what the wood elves generic traits are supposed to be (beyond maybe "live in a forest") so it doesn't really strike me as similar to being conquered and looked down upon. The LoTR elves being technically "wood elves" too doesn't help that.

The Dalish are certainly snotty, but at the same time that snottines is largely laughable as they're clinging to the memory of what they believe they used to be like, while living on the pemanent run and with little remaining to be actually proud of.

While City Elves are just generic oppressed dudes, who even Bioware are pretty clearly lacking any ideas with - the Alienage only exists in DA2 as a place for exiled Wood Elves to live.

Unfortunately everything in DA2 only exists as bland background for Hawke and company with occasional quest dispensers. Maybe with the exception of the qunari compound i don't think there's a single place in that game which could be said to have some actual coherent community.

[yusuf060297]

 i was waiting for such a thread to turn up, i think its unnecessary to make them look distinctive like bioware did with the da2 elves(i hate the new elves), they had a great story in dao, imo they should just look sad somehow to reflect what humans did to them

[tmp7704]

Tom12 wrote...

And making a whole race in every aspect ugly makes them also boring

Yes; hence people commonly say the darkspawn are boring enemy, and the talking, intelligent darkspawn shown in Awakening tends to be viewed as a step up.

I don't think any other species in the game can be said to be "ugly in every aspect" -- they have mix of both good and bad traits, visual and mental. Unfortunately DA2 shows very little of some of these groups -- there's few dwarves and even fewer city elves you get to interact with.

[TEWR]

Salaya wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

...

1) The most recent DA Elf poll was fairly even because the people who said it didn't matter to them could swing either way. It really didn't matter to them.

2) It's hard to judge what the majority feels based off of the forums, which is a minority of the amount of players out there. Meaning the amount of people on here who dislike the DAII Elves is not indicative of how many in the world dislike the DAII Elves. It could be that the majority of players actually do like the DAII Elves, but many just can't get to a computer or don't know about the BSN or don't even have a computer, so they can't voice their opinions.

I agree with your point 2 (nonetheless, I see some value in the fact that majority has "spoken" in the forums; what kind of value... well, thats arguable )

But, it's not true that the poll, adding the "undecided" votes, could swing to one way or another. If you take all the votes stating the "I dont like DA2 elves" and compare to the "I dont like them" plus the "undecided" ones, the "I dont like option" still keeps to its majority

Doesn't matter. David Gaider has gone on record to say that the DAII style elves are what's staying -- with tweaks if technology demands it -- so that 15% of "I'll go either way" automatically goes to the "I like them" crowd.

[MassStorm]

tmp7704 wrote...

I don't think any other species in the game can be said to be "ugly in every aspect" -- they have mix of both good and bad traits, visual and mental.

In saying that you apply the human criteria of having mixed features of good and evil to creatures that are not human. Elves were always considered wise and good (if you exclude dark elves but that is another story).

In reality what really bugs me in DA is that they do not want to have the so called High Elves that are present in almost every respectable fantasy story. In Elder Scroll you have high elves that are better and wiser than wood and dark elves. In Tolkien books you have the Noldors(and other Calaquendi) that are better than the average Silvan elf. Why they have not introduced this variety of elves in DA? they are only slaves or poor nomads...geez give them some respectability.

[Wulfram]

tmp7704 wrote...

I'm not even aware what the wood elves generic traits are supposed to be (beyond maybe "live in a forest") so it doesn't really strike me as similar to being conquered and looked down upon. The LoTR elves being technically "wood elves" too doesn't help that.

Standard wood elves is being bitter about your lands being conquered and threatening to kill any humans who trespass.  The only real distinction is that they tend to be clinging onto a small bit of forest rather than wandering

Unfortunately everything in DA2 only exists as bland background for Hawke and company with occasional quest dispensers. Maybe with the exception of the qunari compound i don't think there's a single place in that game which could be said to have some actual coherent community.

Even in Origins, where they were developed in detail, there was no point in them being elvish.  If you made them simply a different race of humans, it wouldn't have changed a thing.

[tmp7704]

MassStorm wrote...

But elves in Tolkien are far from perfect they are indeed superior but are a race in decay with few numbers and practically no more power to face the enemy.

Being few in numbers (because most of the species has moved out of the story world to the Ancient Better Place) is not a flaw. As such, there's nothing about them that's "far from perfect".

By the way from being a Mary Sues to slaves there is a BIG difference maybe something in between???

I consider the latter to be "in between". It's in between the marysuism and the opposite i.e. making something that has no virtues whatsoever. 

I think Elder Scrolls built the Elves in a credible way. In every fantasy Elves are ancient and magic beings they should be wiser than humans don't you think??

Which is why having the elves who aren't wiser because they've lost their lore ... makes them distinctive. As they aren't like "in every fantasy" this way.

or you are so humanocentric that you cannot accept humans are not that perfect.....

Like i said, i'm glad to see creations which aren't perfect. That includes humans, which are definitely not perfect in DA.

[Wulfram]

Tolkien elves are distinctly flawed. The Silmarillion is all about how the Elves totally screwed up at everything.

Elves shouldn't be superior, but I do wish they'd kept their immortality, or at least an extended lifespan. Because that's the only really distinguishing Elvish trait, apart from the pointy ears.