210 réponses à ce sujet

[tmp7704]

Wulfram wrote...

Standard wood elves is being bitter about your lands being conquered and threatening to kill any humans who trespass.  The only real distinction is that they tend to be clinging onto a small bit of forest rather than wandering.

I think there's considerable difference between being idealized and capable of holding the territory to the point where people would rather not bother you... and being kicked out of that territory and wandering ever since, with little in terms of superiority to speak of.

Even in Origins, where they were developed in detail, there was no point in them being elvish.  If you made them simply a different race of humans, it wouldn't have changed a thing.

The point was to have a twist to the generic take on the fantastic race, i think.

As for it being no different if they were humans instead... elf + human = human. human + human = human. That's a different dynamics right there.

[yusuf060297]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Doesn't matter. David Gaider has gone on record to say that the DAII style elves are what's staying -- with tweaks if technology demands it -- so that 15% of "I'll go either way" automatically goes to the "I like them" crowd.

To many... da2 fans ....  *cries in corner*   no but jokes aside, bioware is just really stubborn on this topic imo and  seeing what they did with da2 i wouldnt encourage them, and say what you like imo da2 are ugly but distincitve 
they got what they wanted with the elves. i still prefer tolkien and dao elves over da2 elves, and if we got the possibilty to play as an elf in a future da product i wont play as one, because of how ugly they made them 

Modifié par yusuf060297, 10 décembre 2011 - 04:20 .

[tmp7704]

Wulfram wrote...

Tolkien elves are distinctly flawed. The Silmarillion is all about how the Elves totally screwed up at everything.

Isn't Silmarillion all about how Melkor continually screwed up everything he could touch out of jealousy? And how things would've gone so much better if the Men weren't so easy to corrupt, compared to the much better, elder race?

[MassStorm]

tmp7704 wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Tolkien elves are distinctly flawed. The Silmarillion is all about how the Elves totally screwed up at everything.

Isn't Silmarillion all about how Melkor continually screwed up everything he could touch out of jealousy? And how things would've gone so much better if the Men weren't so easy to corrupt, compared to the much better, elder race?

Nope you read the wrong book. Maybe you missed the part of Feanor's sons keep attacking their fellow elves for getting back the gems and in doing that screwing up the other elven kingdoms in favor of Melkor

To return on-topic i do not like how DA world was designed and especially how the elves were designed. I generally play fantasy games because there i can be what normally i cannot....so no humans for me thanks there are too many in real life after all. If i cannot be what i want to be (a noble elf) then i would pay more attention in the future in purchasing a DA game and will for sure not pre-ordering blindly a game just because there is DA written on it.

Modifié par MassStorm, 10 décembre 2011 - 04:33 .

[Wulfram]

tmp7704 wrote...

I think there's considerable difference between being idealized and capable of holding the territory to the point where people would rather not bother you... and being kicked out of that territory and wandering ever since, with little in terms of superiority to speak of.

Wood Elves don't tend to be particularly idealised, as far as I can see.  The more interesting portrayals allow them to be alien and scary.

The point was to have a twist to the generic take on the fantastic race, i think.

Turning them into generic oppressed humans isn't really a twist.

As for it being no different if they were humans instead... elf + human = human. human + human = human. That's a different dynamics right there.

It's barely if at all referenced in the game.  And since there aren't any really distinguishing Elvish traits, I can't really see how it's anything except the same sort of prejudice that leads to people with a white parent and a black parent being counted as black.

[furryrage59]

MassStorm wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

MassStorm wrote...

I love Tolkien Elves too. they are marvelous and wise. I really cannot stand how they have mistreated the elves in DA series....like beggars and prostitutes for the filthy and hypocrite humans

Thought having the elves treated as subjugated species they *are* in the DA setting was an interesting twist, one that actually made me like the DA elves, compared to the usual snotty superior image i have trouble even tolerating.

It was enough in itself to make them "disctinct" imo, pity it apparently must be all about excessive visual disctinction now and story means jack ****.

You seems to have trouble accepting that someone is superior to humans...in reality you will discover that even in DA dalish elves are morally superior to humans which are corrupts and evil.....god how much i miss my past Elven adventures in DAO killing every human i can.

To OP well when you are speaking about elves what i have in mind is pretty much this 



or this

I think they look fantastic but some people will undoubtedly whine that they are just pretty humans, again!

[tmp7704]

MassStorm wrote...

Nope you read the wrong book. Maybe you missed the part of Feanor's sons keep attacking their fellow elves for getting back the gems and in doing that screwing up the other elven kingdoms in favor of Melkor

I missed the part where having one jerk ever makes entire species flawed, i suppose.

(loyalty to your ancestors is as much of a flaw as "she is so good at poetry she makes other people give up writing" is)

[MassStorm]

furryrage59 wrote...

MassStorm wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

MassStorm wrote...

I love Tolkien Elves too. they are marvelous and wise. I really cannot stand how they have mistreated the elves in DA series....like beggars and prostitutes for the filthy and hypocrite humans

Thought having the elves treated as subjugated species they *are* in the DA setting was an interesting twist, one that actually made me like the DA elves, compared to the usual snotty superior image i have trouble even tolerating.

It was enough in itself to make them "disctinct" imo, pity it apparently must be all about excessive visual disctinction now and story means jack ****.

You seems to have trouble accepting that someone is superior to humans...in reality you will discover that even in DA dalish elves are morally superior to humans which are corrupts and evil.....god how much i miss my past Elven adventures in DAO killing every human i can.

To OP well when you are speaking about elves what i have in mind is pretty much this 

or this

I think they look fantastic but some people will undoubtedly whine that they are just pretty humans, again!

What is the problem on being pretty? elves are supposed to be pretty .....let the humans being ugly   but you should make them also wiser or giving them a specific behaviour that characterize them.

[Tom12]

I made a new poll in which there is no option *on the fence* because some people still dont know which elves are more preferred, so i suggest everyone to vote on it

[Dragon age 2 bad]

yusuf060297 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Doesn't matter. David Gaider has gone on record to say that the DAII style elves are what's staying -- with tweaks if technology demands it -- so that 15% of "I'll go either way" automatically goes to the "I like them" crowd.

To many... da2 fans ....  *cries in corner*   no but jokes aside, bioware is just really stubborn on this topic imo and  seeing what they did with da2 i wouldnt encourage them, and say what you like imo da2 are ugly but distincitve 
they got what they wanted with the elves. i still prefer tolkien and dao elves over da2 elves, and if we got the possibilty to play as an elf in a future da product i wont play as one, because of how ugly they made them 

DA 2 was extremely disapointing, i thought their was too much going on. The wepon and armor selection was sort of dumb compared to origins. The game is very dark and all this flipping that hawk does is annoying and unrealistic. The character selection i also hated, being only one character annoys me while i loved being able to choose your character in origins and awakening. Personally i think they should do DA 3 exactly like origins with just some upgraded graphics and mabe a blight and a human vs elf war.

[TEWR]

I think they look fantastic but some people will undoubtedly whine that they are just pretty humans, again!

My personal problem -- and I realize this will probably only apply to me -- with the DAO Elves was more than just the fact that they were humans with pointy ears.

It's that there wasn't really a sense of being an Elf when I played as one. Having pointy ears doesn't mean much if I can't really look the part of a Dalish Elf. The Vallaslin is nice and all, but it's not enough for my elf to feel like he's an elf.

Part of why I like the DAII Dalish Elves is due to how they were now given a Welsh accent, which makes them sound more Elf-like. Don't know why, but it does.

Oddly enough, why I liked the Elves in Hellboy II was due to the different appearance that they had along with the fact that they spoke Gaelic.





Prince Nuada -- and his twin sister and father -- aren't just humans with pointy ears. Their whole appearance is unique and one assumes this appearance applies to the Elves as a whole. They possess a certain Elven beauty and regal air that I just didn't get from DAO's Elves. 

I did however get more of that air -- though not as much as I'd like -- from DAII's Elves. 

And that is part of why I like the new things regarding the Elves.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 10 décembre 2011 - 04:49 .

[tmp7704]

Wulfram wrote...

Wood Elves don't tend to be particularly idealised, as far as I can see. 

From what i see they are "elves who live in the woods" for all intents and purposes. And otherwise given all the usual elf traits. So not particularly idealised, but rather getting that as part of what makes the generic elves, elves.

Turning them into generic oppressed humans isn't really a twist.

It is when it's unlike the generic portrayal of the species. Much like being sour is a twist on sugar.

It's barely if at all referenced in the game.  And since there aren't any really distinguishing Elvish traits, I can't really see how it's anything except the same sort of prejudice that leads to people with a white parent and a black parent being counted as black.

The difference is in the very analogy you bring up -- the child of black and white parent may face prejudice. The child of human and elf can actually avoid prejudice because it's no longer elf in any way. But no longer being an elf is at the same time the price his/her parent (and the parent's species) would have to pay. That's a very different conundrum.

[Salaya]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

...


Doesn't matter. David Gaider has gone on record to say that the DAII style elves are what's staying -- with tweaks if technology demands it -- so that 15% of "I'll go either way" automatically goes to the "I like them" crowd.

O_o

Thats some kind of joke, doesn't it?  What means to people's tastes what the devs said about what's going to stay or not? That something is irreversible does not make an opinion different. Your conclusion is not in the opinion stated O_o

But I still don't get you... let's take that deduction as valid: 128+52 = 180 The majority is 190. 

[tmp7704]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

It's that there wasn't really a sense of being an Elf when I played as one. Having pointy ears doesn't mean much if I can't really look the part of a Dalish Elf.

What do you mean by that? I mean, when your character does look like other Dalish what makes you feel you "can't really look the part"?

[TEWR]

Salaya wrote...

Thats some kind of joke, doesn't it?  What means to people's tastes what the devs said about what's going to stay or not? That something is irreversible does not make an opinion different. Your conclusion is not in the opinion stated O_o

But I still don't get you... let's take that deduction as valid: 128+52 = 180 The majority is 190. 

I'm saying that because the devs have said the style will remain, then the people who could go either way will have no problem with the style being the same. Thus, the poll is more even then one might think.

No opinion is being invalidated. There's just no point in saying "Well the people who don't like it still win because the 'on the fence' people can be added to their group" when the style is going to be the same due to the devs' decision.

had there been no dev comment, than the majority would've probably won in terms of the opinion on the matter by a huge margin.

[alex90c]

Salaya wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

...


Doesn't matter. David Gaider has gone on record to say that the DAII style elves are what's staying -- with tweaks if technology demands it -- so that 15% of "I'll go either way" automatically goes to the "I like them" crowd.

O_o

Thats some kind of joke, doesn't it?  What means to people's tastes what the devs said about what's going to stay or not? That something is irreversible does not make an opinion different. Your conclusion is not in the opinion stated O_o

But I still don't get you... let's take that deduction as valid: 128+52 = 180 The majority is 190. 

Bioware have said the retarded looking new elves are staying, period.

[yusuf060297]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
They possess a certain Elven beauty and regal air that I just didn't get from DAO's Elves. 

I did however get more of that air -- though not as much as I'd like -- from DAII's Elves. 

And that is part of why I like the new things regarding the Elves.

Sorry what?! lol Besides the looks of the dao elves i must say i got actually really much the feeling that i was playing an elf, i liked their story much more then any other origins in dao, in da2 i didnt get nothing from your little breeze that you try to describe, they werent interresting at all in da2 

Modifié par yusuf060297, 10 décembre 2011 - 05:03 .

[Salaya]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

...

No opinion is being invalidated. There's just no point in saying "Well the people who don't like it still win because the 'on the fence' people can be added to their group" when the style is going to be the same due to the devs' decision.

...

But it's not necessary to add those people to the "I dont like" group. Even by not adding them, and adding them to people who actually likes the new elves, they are still a minority O_o

And, again, an irreversible fact does not change an opinion. That group shouldnt be added anywhere. Their opinion is "on the fence", and the new style being kept doesn't change that. 

[tmp7704]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Prince Nuada -- and his twin sister and father -- aren't just humans with pointy ears. Their whole appearance is unique and one assumes this appearance applies to the Elves as a whole. They possess a certain Elven beauty and regal air that I just didn't get from DAO's Elves.

... All i see is a human with yellow eyes and stitch marks on the cheeks. Can't even say whether she has pointy ears thanks to the hairstyle.

edit: i mean, really. Here's she is without the contacts and stitches.



Still doesn't look like a human to you?

Modifié par tmp7704, 10 décembre 2011 - 05:09 .

[TEWR]

tmp7704 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

It's that there wasn't really a sense of being an Elf when I played as one. Having pointy ears doesn't mean much if I can't really look the part of a Dalish Elf.

What do you mean by that? I mean, when your character does look like other Dalish what makes you feel you "can't really look the part"?

I didn't look or feel Dalish. I didn't look or feel like an Elf. I just felt... like a bland human with pointy ears who was supposed to be an Elf because of what codexes about the past said.

There wasn't enough of a sense of "These guys are close to nature and everything". Maybe it's because of my Native American heritage, but these guys should be using everything about nature in what they do. Like using the fur of animals and other things.

The Dalish are supposed to be based off of Celtic and Native American clans, yet they don't really do anything to fit this part.

A "Dalish" Elf among other "Dalish" Elves doesn't mean much if they're only Elven features are their pointy ears and their tattoos.

I'd also like to make my Elves have really long hair. That might also help me feel more Elf-like when playing an elf. Don't know why. Maybe because I liked myself when my hair was really long and I'd like to make my Elves have hair that's about the same length as my hair used to be (down to my shoulder blades before I had to get it buzzed for a wedding).

Bear in mind I've only gotten 3 hours of sleep and I need to get more, so I can't really express how I feel about the matter in sufficient detail.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 10 décembre 2011 - 05:11 .

[TEWR]

tmp7704 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Prince Nuada -- and his twin sister and father -- aren't just humans with pointy ears. Their whole appearance is unique and one assumes this appearance applies to the Elves as a whole. They possess a certain Elven beauty and regal air that I just didn't get from DAO's Elves.

... All i see is a human with yellow eyes and stitch marks on the cheeks. Can't even say whether she has pointy ears thanks to the hairstyle.

You'd probably have to watch the movie to really understand what I mean regarding those two and their father. Assuming you haven't seen it that is.

[Tom12]

yusuf060297 wrote...
they should look sad somehow to reflect what humans did to them

Pretty much this ^ would be perfect because it would also make sense

[tmp7704]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

You'd probably have to watch the movie to really understand what I mean regarding those two and their father. Assuming you haven't seen it that is.

I'm talking strictly in terms of appearance. (edited the original message with some visuals to get the point better)

[TEWR]

tmp7704 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

You'd probably have to watch the movie to really understand what I mean regarding those two and their father. Assuming you haven't seen it that is.

I'm talking strictly in terms of appearance. (edited the original message with some visuals to get the point better)

She looks human there because that's the actress. But the actual characters -- the Elven princess, her brother, and their father -- give off a distinct vibe that only the movie can properly convey.

There's that word! Distinct!

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 10 décembre 2011 - 05:15 .

[Brockololly]

This: