210 réponses à ce sujet

[Atakuma]

jon1991 wrote...

I preferred their look in Dragon age: Origins, the new Dragon Age 2 'art style' managed to make them (and everyone else) look worse for some reason. Take the dwarves as an example:

That is Bioware's crappy engine not rendering them properly, not the art style.

Modifié par Atakuma, 11 décembre 2011 - 07:46 .

[Monica83]

Its ok if someone prefear the new style as a long they have they reason to do so... Why you like the elves? Too many people don't know how to answer this answer so they just use what bioware pr says:

Now they look distinct...
What i find silly are not the people that liked the elves of dragon age 2 but the people that likes evrything only because branded bioware and use the common bioware phrases because they have not opinion at all..

If you like the dragon age 2 elves look and you say to me.. Wll i find them cute.. Its ok its your opinion and i respect that.. But if you come out with now they look distinct using the classic bioware phrase for me you just like them because bioware likes them..

I can accept if bioware want define races but as a models as textures and also as concept i find the dragon age 2 elves just bad.. If you played baldur's gate 2 there is a elves with a look very similiar to the dragon age 2 one.. Aerie.. I found that a good way to improve the da2 elves whitout change another time the design

[bleetman]

Monica83 wrote...

Its ok if someone prefear the new style as a long they have they reason to do so... Why you like the elves? Too many people don't know how to answer this answer so they just use what bioware pr says:

Now they look distinct

Because that's one of the reasons they like them. This isn't complicated.

Moica83 wrote...

What i find silly are not the people that liked the elves of dragon age 2 but the people that likes evrything only because branded bioware and use the common bioware phrases because they have not opinion at all..

If you like the dragon age 2 elves look and you say to me.. Wll i find them cute.. Its ok its your opinion and i respect that.. But if you come out with now they look distinct using the classic bioware phrase for me you just like them because bioware likes them.

Or, y'know, because they happen to agree with them.

I've yet to see anyone anywhere argue that everything Bioware did in Dragon Age 2 is flawless and above reproach either. Either because I'm just not looking hard enough, or because this ridiculous pigeon holing of people into some absurdly simplistic 'loved everything about the game' and 'hated everything about the game'  categories isn't remotely accurate. Hmm. I wonder.

Modifié par bleetman, 11 décembre 2011 - 08:51 .

[yusuf060297]

bleetman wrote...
I've yet to see anyone anywhere argue that everything Bioware did in Dragon Age 2 is flawless and above reproach either. Maybe I'm just not looking hard enough.

then you havent been looking hard enough i have seen quite a lot 

Monica83 wrote...

I love you lol...

It's also interesting how the da2 elves defenders don't do nothing than repeat the same PR talks: now they look distinct....

I prefear a lot more DAO elves

lol i love you too 

i just dont get it how some people seriously think that da2 elves look good, they arent "distinct" skyrim elves are distinct but da2 elves arent. Well and to the complaint "humans with pointy ears" Well, the elves are now "ugly humans with pointy ears"... Well done...

Modifié par yusuf060297, 11 décembre 2011 - 08:59 .

[Icinix]

There were a few elves in DA2 that used the new look, and they looked quite nice, apart from the cartoon edges and plastic skin.

The problem seemed to be that it was the vast majority that looked ugly and out of proportion.

But echoing the comments that the DA2 engine as a whole is not that flash.

Making a game in 2011 that looks like it was made in 2005 does not equal distinctive.

[hoorayforicecream]

Maybe it's just me, but shouldn't both sides compare the best looking elves from each game, rather than the best from one to the worst from the other? Otherwise you're not making an accurate (or even reasonable) comparison.

[TEWR]

yusuf060297 wrote...

alex90c wrote...

for god sake, how the hell can anyone honestly think that DA2 elf looks good ;/

The ones that support da2 elves are imo the da2 fans that would just do everything to deffend their lovely game, or they like the idea to make elves "Distinct", though i would never say that da2 elves look in anyway "Distinct".
i would like the elves to be tolkien elves because they fit much better in the da universe imo.

@Morroian Come to think of it maybe the tevinter were afraid of the goat like people so they tried to kill it with fire! 

I hated much of DAII yet loved the new elf design, for reasons I've already gone over -- albeit somewhat poorly I think -- in this thread.

Your opinion is invalidated.

*is half serious about the invalidation*

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 11 décembre 2011 - 09:22 .

[TheBlackBaron]

Prefer the DA:O elves in general, with some very few exceptions. However, DA2 seems like a general graphical downgrade from DA:O, so I'd be interested in seeing how they look in the Frostbite 2 engine (if that is indeed what Bioware is using for DA3). It wouldn't solve the inherent weirdness of their facial structure but perhaps a facelift (no pun intended) in other areas would help.

[whykikyouwhy]

bleetman wrote...

Moica83 wrote...

What i find silly are not the people that liked the elves of dragon age 2 but the people that likes evrything only because branded bioware and use the common bioware phrases because they have not opinion at all..

If you like the dragon age 2 elves look and you say to me.. Wll i find them cute.. Its ok its your opinion and i respect that.. But if you come out with now they look distinct using the classic bioware phrase for me you just like them because bioware likes them.

Or, y'know, because they happen to agree with them.

I've yet to see anyone anywhere argue that everything Bioware did in Dragon Age 2 is flawless and above reproach either. Either because I'm just not looking hard enough, or because this ridiculous pigeon holing of people into some absurdly simplistic 'loved everything about the game' and 'hated everything about the game'  categories isn't remotely accurate. Hmm. I wonder.

I have to second what bleetman has said. I haven't seen posts where people have declared the game to be without fault. People who have said they love the game will point out that there could have been areas where improvement would have been nice...regardless of those minor things, they were able to enjoy the game for several playthroughs. But nowhere have I seen that the game was perfect.

If someone defines the elves as distinct and likes the look, that doesn't mean that they have sworn some fealty to Bioware. "Distinct" is one adjective amongst many, and maybe those people feel that the adjective applies. Whether or not you agree with that sentiment or assessment is a whole different matter entirely, and I think is what really is at the heart of the matter - you don't agree with the core notion that the elves are ok or acceptable, therefore it seems that the reaction is to shovel people who find them appealing or who aren't concerned with their appearance into some tidy little labeled box.

That's what I personally do not find fair when we are talking about a matter of opinion.

yusuf060297 wrote...

i just dont get it how some people seriously think that da2 elves look good, they arent "distinct" skyrim elves are distinct but da2 elves arent. Well and to the complaint "humans with pointy ears" Well, the elves are now "ugly humans with pointy ears"... Well done...

Again, this goes back to opinion - perhaps more specifically, what people want or expect from the look of the elves, and how that correlates to concepts of beauty. The complaint I hear most about the elves is that they are "ugly" - ugly humans or just ugly in and of themselves. And why? People have blamed poor design, laziness, all manner of things. What remains though is that a lot of people expect elves to be radiant and beautiful.

Someone said this is another of the elf-design threads - that elves may look beautiful to elves, and not necessarily to the players. We're measuring fantastic creatures by our own (societally-dictated) standards of beauty, and that might not be the best measuring stick for whether or not the current design stays in the game.

Or, to put my sentiment in a more straight-forward fashion - not everything should be radiantly beautiful. And I find it kind of sad that people can't abide by characters (not just elves) who may not look like they stepped out of a fashion magazine.

[TEWR]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Maybe it's just me, but shouldn't both sides compare the best looking elves from each game, rather than the best from one to the worst from the other? Otherwise you're not making an accurate (or even reasonable) comparison.

This is precisely what people should be doing. However they seem to think that one bad elf in one game is enough to trash the entire design.

At one point, someone compared DAO Merrill with Orana. My mind was boggled.

What people shouldn't be doing though is use the furniture Elves, as they don't reflect on the actual design itself.

[Mr.House]

We should compare Orsino and Cammen.

Modifié par Mr.House, 11 décembre 2011 - 09:29 .

[tmp7704]

Orsino and Zathrian would probably make more sense.

Not that such comparison makes much sense at all -- "it's good looking/it's not" is largely up to individual tastes. I suppose what *could* be compared is the fidelity, but here DA2 loses no matter which particular elf you use..

[Mr.House]

yusuf060297 wrote...
Well and to the complaint "humans with pointy ears" Well, the elves are now "ugly humans with pointy ears"... Well done...

In your opinion.

[yusuf060297]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Maybe it's just me, but shouldn't both sides compare the best looking elves from each game, rather than the best from one to the worst from the other? Otherwise you're not making an accurate (or even reasonable) comparison.

This is precisely what people should be doing. However they seem to think that one bad elf in one game is enough to trash the entire design.

At one point, someone compared DAO Merrill with Orana. My mind was boggled.

What people shouldn't be doing though is use the furniture Elves, as they don't reflect on the actual design itself.

huh just one elf from da2 is ugly? really...? da2's elves design was most likely the attempt to let them look more na'vi like wide noses, big eyes etc... overall they looked bad and the main elf characters from da2 look again human like which i like, but others just dont. The people that show like Orana/Huon or the one blind keeper. well they are certainly shoked at how ugly they look. in dao there are also bad looking elves but the main design from dao were like tolkien elves, they were supposed to look attractive to humans

Modifié par yusuf060297, 11 décembre 2011 - 09:37 .

[Mr.House]

I only found three elves attractive in DAO.

[bleetman]

yusuf060297 wrote...

bleetman wrote...
I've yet to see anyone anywhere argue that everything Bioware did in Dragon Age 2 is flawless and above reproach either. Maybe I'm just not looking hard enough.

then you havent been looking hard enough i have seen quite a lot 

Really? Show me. Show me any post from anywhere where it says "absolutely everything about Dragon Age 2 was perfect". I'll be here.

Or do you mean 'I've seen quite a lot of people who actually enjoyed the game'? There's plenty of those around, sure. It's just not remotely the same thing.

[hoorayforicecream]

The point is that using examples of rushed or low-definition work (like the elves in the background that aren't intended to be in cutscenes, let alone examined very closely) are disingenuous. That's less of an elf redesign issue so much as a "they just didn't spend enough zots" issue. It's important to separate the two, because then it comes down to "spend enough zots to really show us the new elf design" rather than "I hate the new elf design because it means there aren't enough zots".

[Wulfram]

The problem is that it's sometimes difficult to seperate what traits of the elves are a matter of design and which are a matter of lack of zots.

A lot of the Elves which had zots spent on them seem to have toned down versions of the traits which most other elves have, so what does that mean? Do less sticky out ears cost more zots, or is this a tacit acknowledgement that the sticky out ears look too derpy to be used on a character that they actually care about?

Modifié par Wulfram, 11 décembre 2011 - 10:02 .

[TEWR]

yusuf060297 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Maybe it's just me, but shouldn't both sides compare the best looking elves from each game, rather than the best from one to the worst from the other? Otherwise you're not making an accurate (or even reasonable) comparison.

This is precisely what people should be doing. However they seem to think that one bad elf in one game is enough to trash the entire design.

At one point, someone compared DAO Merrill with Orana. My mind was boggled.

What people shouldn't be doing though is use the furniture Elves, as they don't reflect on the actual design itself.

huh just one elf from da2 is ugly? really...? da2's elves design was most likely the attempt to let them look more na'vi like wide noses, big eyes etc... overall they looked bad and the main elf characters from da2 look again human like which i like, but others just dont. The people that show like Orana/Huon or the one blind keeper. well they are certainly shoked at how ugly they look. in dao there are also bad looking elves but the main design from dao were like tolkien elves, they were supposed to look attractive to humans

Point. Missing it. Ah well.

hoorayforicecream's post explains the point that was made.

[hoorayforicecream]

Wulfram wrote...

The problem is that it's sometimes difficult to seperate what traits of the elves are a matter of design and which are a matter of lack of zots.

A lot of the Elves which had zots spent on them seem to have toned down versions of the traits which most other elves have, so what does that mean? Do less sticky out ears cost more zots, or is this a tacit acknowledgement that the sticky out ears look too derpy to be used on a character that they actually care about?

If I had to guess, I think it means that you're attributing (or misinterpreting) something to the redesign that isn't actually part of the redesign.

[TEWR]

Mr.House wrote...

I only found three elves attractive in DAO.

Gheyna, Shianni, and Zevran?

[Mr.House]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

I only found three elves attractive in DAO.

Gheyna, Shianni, and Zevran?

Nope. Shianni, Zev and Merrill

[Morroian]

Tom12 wrote...
Point not getting it  i meant they deserved it because of how dumb they are in da2 . Merrill isnt certainly the brightest one, 

You mean the Merrill that rebuilt an eluvian that no-on else was able to. You need to learn teh difference between naivety and intelligence. As for Huon at that point he was a blood mage driven insane by demons, the issue there is the way blood mages were characterisaed not elves.

[TEWR]

Morroian wrote...
 As for Huon at that point he was a blood mage driven insane by demons, the issue there is the way blood mages were characterisaed not elves.

I don't think that Huon was driven insane by the demons. I think it was Templar abuses that drove him to that. Either way though, he was certifiably insane by that point.

[Sabariel]

Although I find 99.9% of DA2's elves to be creepy looking, I'm thinking it's not the redesign but something with the new graphics, because someone made a mod for DAO to make the elves look "more DA2" and only a few of them looked creepy.

Modifié par Sabariel, 12 décembre 2011 - 12:58 .