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DuskWarden wrote...
When Bethesda make a TES game, there's really never going to be much competition for RPG based awards.
Modifié par LPPrince, 12 décembre 2011 - 02:19 .
bEVEsthda wrote...
And as good as FO3 and Skyrim are, Bioware need to step up their game a bit, even from DA:O, to hang in there.
bEVEsthda wrote...
The lowest system of icefields, at the start from HIgh Hrothgar, presented a couple of 5.12 cruxes. Pretty sustained 5.10 to 5.11 climbing most of the way after that, except for some easy ice fields under the final rockwall. The final rockwall offered a possible 5.13 crux move, or at least 5.12. which unlocked the climb. Fair 5.9 to the top plataus from there, Easy scrambling to the top spire from there, at most 5.6. Final spire 5.9.
(And yes, I fell to my death a couple of times. As it was a ropeless solo. Bad idea in RL, but no rope craft in Skyrim. Besides, Lydia don't climb)
Yrkoon wrote...
For now, probably. It's certainly more user friendly.hoorayforicecream wrote...
Not saying it will. But by your own admitted logic, that makes DA2 better than The Witcher 2.
Modifié par Il Divo, 12 décembre 2011 - 02:40 .
Gemini1179 wrote...
Sure if you want to go using extreme cases of mass insanity as an example
Is "Star Wars" popular? Was it good? Ok, maybe that is an outlier too.
What about "Titanic"? Personally, I didn't like the movie, but I can admit that it was good. THAT's what I'm talking about. I suspect you'll find more people who will say that while they did not particularly like Skyrim, it was a good game as opposed to those who will do the same for DA2.
Besides, since the concept of something being "good" is subjective,
logic really has no bearing. Not ALL popular things are good, but more
often than not, they are. If you're really going to argue that, I'm done
here. I've said my piece.
Modifié par Il Divo, 12 décembre 2011 - 02:42 .
Il Divo wrote...
Define "extreme cases". Anyone who doesn't follow the norm can be considered a member of that extreme case. Logic has bearing if you attempt to turn you personal experience into some kind of objective certainty. "Ten people really liked Planescape, but only five people liked Skyrim, so Planescape is obviously better". All we can say is that the former is more popular than the latter, but does not clearly have a higher level of quality. But if we applied that principle as a general rule, you'd probably find yourself saying that the vast majority of things you enjoy are immediately inferior to something else as a result of poularity.
Il Divo wrote...
Point being that anything's sales numbers is
not immediately indicative of quality, for a large number of reasons
which have been pointed out.
LPPrince wrote...
I liked DXHR, but it didn't even feel like the type of game that would get many big awards.
Is it bad if I thought the funnest part about Skyrim was the bugs? Flying mammoths will always hold a place in my heart. In fact thats probably why they made dragons fly backwards in that last patch.barryl89 wrote...
Skyrim is a bugfest... doesn't deserve an award. Nor does DA2.
LinksOcarina wrote...
LPPrince wrote...
I liked DXHR, but it didn't even feel like the type of game that would get many big awards.
In what way, exactly? Cause honestly the only complaint I have with Deus Ex: is the combat in the game is kind of weak, making stealth and talking more preferable in most situations, which is cool and all but still...options are nice.
Gemini1179 wrote...
Now you're just arguing for the sake of arguing and doing it in circles. Your arbitrary examples are just that: arbitrary. I've already provided a document showing the sales trend for DAO and DA2.
You're being vague and
presumptous. TOTAL sales numbers may not be a good indicator of quality,
but sales trends are more often than not good indicators of quality.
Modifié par Il Divo, 12 décembre 2011 - 03:57 .
Well that's what I'm saying- I have a hard time calling it the best RPG when it doesn't really seem like an RPG to me, because character customization is very important to my enjoyment of an RPG. I suppose it deserves it on merit of branching story and consequence (from what I've heard about it anyway- since I haven't finished).Costin_Razvan wrote...
If Skyrim wasn't on that list would you agree with TW2 getting it?
I mean I personally view TW2 as the finest RPG I ever played, but I don't disagree with Skyrim winning it at all.
Modifié par Addai67, 12 décembre 2011 - 04:02 .
bEVEsthda wrote...
Those who find Skyrim lacking should please note that in Bethesda's games the story is yours own to make. All the way. So, for instance, if you want to be bored in Skyrim, that's perfectly possible. Enjoy your precious boredom.
Me, I'm on the top of the world.
And I got there by the North Face.
The lowest system of icefields, at the start from HIgh Hrothgar, presented a couple of 5.12 cruxes. Pretty sustained 5.10 to 5.11 climbing most of the way after that, except for some easy ice fields under the final rockwall. The final rockwall offered a possible 5.13 crux move, or at least 5.12. which unlocked the climb. Fair 5.9 to the top plataus from there, Easy scrambling to the top spire from there, at most 5.6. Final spire 5.9.
(And yes, I fell to my death a couple of times. As it was a ropeless solo. Bad idea in RL, but no rope craft in Skyrim. Besides, Lydia don't climb)
Now tell me which other game offers me satisfying mountaineering with remarkably realistic route finding? Morrowind, yes. But Skyrim does it better. And it probably never was intentional by the developers. Combination of the games physics and a possible small glitch. But that's what a sandbox does, makes things possible that even the developers didn't think of. (PC version, ofc. Have no idea what is possible on consoles, prob less)
This is why I'm even more willing to overlook Skyrim's flaws than DA2's, because I feel like Bethesda is moving in the right direction. Skyrim is much improved over Oblivion, and when their developers talk about RPGs, I nod my head. Even now revisiting some of the things Bioware devs said about DA2 makes me sit slackjawed, like they can't be serious. Things like the idea that an empty, sterile world ("using negative space") might somehow be attractive, or calling DA2 "our most reactive game to date." Either they're completely out of touch with why people liked their games, or they're just spinning BS because this is what marketing told them to do. Either way, I can still feel confident that Bethesda gets it- they know what I enjoy in an RPG and they're still committed to making them- and Bioware is moving ever farther away. I'm glad Bethesda is garnering some recognition for doing it right and for delivering on their promises.Everwarden wrote...
bEVEsthda wrote...
And as good as FO3 and Skyrim are, Bioware need to step up their game a bit, even from DA:O, to hang in there.
Bioware's new strategy to beat Bethesda is to lower quality and churn out products with lots of tie-ins, exploding bodies, and less depth. Don't expect them to do a 180 and suddenly decide they care about making solid games again.
Modifié par Addai67, 12 décembre 2011 - 04:13 .
LPPrince wrote...
Todd Howard kicks ass, that's for sure.
Eh, there's alot of things I don't like what he has done. I love SKyrim but some design choices and such make him lose aot of points.LPPrince wrote...
Todd Howard kicks ass, that's for sure.
Modifié par Mr.House, 12 décembre 2011 - 04:28 .
LPPrince wrote...
Serious question. Dead serious.
DA2 or Horse Armor DLC?
Modifié par Il Divo, 12 décembre 2011 - 04:30 .
Il Divo wrote...
Notice that the reception of both these games are founded in one concept: popularity, so they still cannot be a measure of quality, since we fall back into that logical fallacy.
Il Divo wrote...
LPPrince wrote...
Serious question. Dead serious.
DA2 or Horse Armor DLC?
Ooh, tough one, but I'll stick with DA2. I'm one of those idiots who actually bought the Horse Armor because I needed to have everything. It literally changed nothing about the gameplay, so it was like I basically handed Bethesda an extra two dollars and got nothing back. But they did fix their mistake with Knights of the Nine. I went hardcore Paladin after that with that sweet set of armor.
Frek wrote...
Define the word "quality" as you have used it in the above quote please. Make use of the words objective and subjective in your answer.
After you've defined "quality" for me, then I'd like to know this. Apply your definition of 'quality'
to the following:
Alot of people like DA:O, so they spread alot of positive feedback resulting in greater sales.
Alot of people didn't like DA2, so they spread alot of negative feedback resulting in lesser sales.
Did the 'quality' of DA:O and DA2 have anything to do with these 2 scenarios? (Remember we are using whatever you provide as the definition of 'quality' from the first quote above in your 'logical' statement)
Modifié par Il Divo, 12 décembre 2011 - 04:53 .
LPPrince wrote...
Il Divo wrote...
LPPrince wrote...
Serious question. Dead serious.
DA2 or Horse Armor DLC?
Ooh, tough one, but I'll stick with DA2. I'm one of those idiots who actually bought the Horse Armor because I needed to have everything. It literally changed nothing about the gameplay, so it was like I basically handed Bethesda an extra two dollars and got nothing back. But they did fix their mistake with Knights of the Nine. I went hardcore Paladin after that with that sweet set of armor.
The fact that that's a tough question is just sad, isn't it? ahahahahaha
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