133 réponses à ce sujet

[HowlHowl]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

HowlHowl wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

How dare a soldier have muscles.

@OP - do you genuinely think that people who enjoy CoD and GoW are going to spend £50 on a game just because it has a guy with muscles and a mohawk? You don't think that perhaps they buy those games because they enjoy the gameplay and won't be that interested in ME3 because it doesn't have a strong focus on competitive online multiplayer?

I mean, you can't actually believe what you're saying. That would be worrying.

I didn't say he shouldn't have muscles. The Hell?

Do you have comprehension problems? I didn't say James Vega was BioWare's main ME3 marketing focus, or some massive industry-changing gimmick, I said they were making a character that might appeal to a certain cultural sensibility we all know is there.

I get that GOW and COD fans that also play ME3 feel like they're often targeted, but I also don't give a damn and propose you make sure someone is actually an enemy of the games before you pull out the chainsaw gun.

At first, he just looks like a douchebag with his cool hawk and big muscles, but then I realized: James Vega is BioWare's attempt at combining what will appeal to their new players, GOW and COD-loving dudebros, and the nostalgia of a Donkey Kong Gameboy game. That's right. Vega's favorite things are Mountain Dew, Madden NFL 2185, and being shot out of a barrel into a trail of bananas.

If i've interpreted what you said wrongly then I'm sorry, but that was the impression you gave off. 

You pointed out that having muscles and a mohawk make him a douchebag - the hair I kinda agree with but why wouldn't a soldier have large muscles? Just seems ridiculous complaining about them when they're almost necessary for his character.

And you said Vega is Bioware's attempt at appealing to GoW and CoD players. That isn't what attracts them - the online MP is what attracts them. Not how bulky the characters look. If that was the case then all CoD players would've migrated to wrestling games years ago. I just find it ridiculous that people still stick to these gaming stereotypes - they're what the media and the tabloids stick to to portray gamers as bad. Surely gamers themselves have gotten over these sterotypes - if we can't then how can we expect the media to give up on them. Not everyone who plays CoD or GoW is some massive 'dudebro'.

I did like the Donkey Kong reference though. I didn't notice that first time.

Yeah, a fauxhawk is pretty douche-adjacent. His muscles don't have much tone, so they seem like they're there just for aesthetic purposes, which could also be a sign of a douchebag. They don't seem like combat muscles at all. Not to mention, the likelihood he'll be doing anything that will require heavy lifting or strength is between slim and none. No arm-wrestling Reapers, I imagine.

I said new players, then I specified they're probably into GOW. And again, I say, by no stretch of the imagination was I ever saying Vega would be or is the main reason, or even a big reason, for why new players might get into Mass Effect. He's just another thing on the pile of things BioWare is doing to appeal to GOW holdouts and new players. I never said all of them are dudebros, just enough of them for BioWare to introduce a character obviously geared toward dudebros. I should have clarified that.

Now I'm not sure what the fatally-vague term "media" has anything to do with this, but sure.

[Vapaa]

HowlHowl wrote...

There is no big deal. I don't understand why me saying he seems like an archetypical character is the same as me condemning any and all who condone his existence.

But you are coming on this forum with that provocative "JV has the derpiest face" thing, don't you ? So why ? ME3 isn't out yet, and we don't know how the character is written, so you can only make suppositions.....for what purpose exactly ?

[Pallid]

Wulfram wrote... Ashley goes with Morrigan, Isabela, Silk Fox and maybe Jaheira as the strong independent "renegade" female LI, contrasted with the cute "paragon" LIs like Aerie, Leliana, Liara, Merrill and Dawn star.

Aerie,  ME1 Liara, Tali and Merrill are practically the same character.

Modifié par omskman, 10 décembre 2011 - 07:57 .

[HowlHowl]

Wulfram wrote...

HowlHowl wrote...

Yeah, you forgot the fact that they were all punchy warriors with oversimplified mindsets and knowledge of few things but fighting. I consider that macho. Of course, it's obvious you only asked me to clarify so you could try to knock my examples down one-by-one.

I asked for you to clarify because I was interested in your reasoning.  I still don't really understand it - Bioware does have some recurring types of character, but that's not a group which I'd  pick out as resembling each other at all.

For me personally, Carth goes with Kaidan and Alistair - and maybe Zu, though he's a lot less paragon than the others.  Ashley goes with Morrigan, Isabela, Silk Fox and maybe Jaheira as the strong independent "renegade" female LI, contrasted with the cute "paragon" LIs like Aerie, Leliana, Liara, Merrill and Dawn star.

Then I retract.

I see your Carth-Kaidan-Alistair grouping, but I still even consider Alistair a red-blooded warrior who values his ignorance and simplistic way of thinking. Ashley is a renegade because she's an idiot though, not because it's her ideological bent. She still values order and speaking with her gun, which I think separates her from those you listed.

[HowlHowl]

Vapaä wrote...

HowlHowl wrote...

There is no big deal. I don't understand why me saying he seems like an archetypical character is the same as me condemning any and all who condone his existence.

But you are coming on this forum with that provocative "JV has the derpiest face" thing, don't you ? So why ? ME3 isn't out yet, and we don't know how the character is written, so you can only make suppositions.....for what purpose exactly ?

Vega's derp face was only a humorous introduction to my actual topic, which NO ONE has tlaked about yet, which is how realistic aesthetics and themes in video games can backfire.

[MACharlie1]

Wow. You really have no idea what a douchebag really is, do you?

For some reason, I'm getting the feeling you've never stepped into a gym in your entire life.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Howl, the character of Vega is not going to convince any Gears "holdouts" to get ME3, believe you me.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 10 décembre 2011 - 08:00 .

[rolson00]

HowlHowl wrote...

*image removed

At first, he just looks like a douchebag with his cool hawk and big muscles, but then I realized: James Vega is BioWare's attempt at combining what will appeal to their new players, GOW and COD-loving dudebros, and the nostalgia of a Donkey Kong Gameboy game. That's right. Vega's favorite things are Mountain Dew, Madden NFL 2185, and being shot out of a barrel into a trail of bananas.

heh lol if they made him like this ^ then bioware would have one of the greatest chars ever:O

[Candidate 88766]

HowlHowl wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

HowlHowl wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

How dare a soldier have muscles.

@OP - do you genuinely think that people who enjoy CoD and GoW are going to spend £50 on a game just because it has a guy with muscles and a mohawk? You don't think that perhaps they buy those games because they enjoy the gameplay and won't be that interested in ME3 because it doesn't have a strong focus on competitive online multiplayer?

I mean, you can't actually believe what you're saying. That would be worrying.

I didn't say he shouldn't have muscles. The Hell?

Do you have comprehension problems? I didn't say James Vega was BioWare's main ME3 marketing focus, or some massive industry-changing gimmick, I said they were making a character that might appeal to a certain cultural sensibility we all know is there.

I get that GOW and COD fans that also play ME3 feel like they're often targeted, but I also don't give a damn and propose you make sure someone is actually an enemy of the games before you pull out the chainsaw gun.

At first, he just looks like a douchebag with his cool hawk and big muscles, but then I realized: James Vega is BioWare's attempt at combining what will appeal to their new players, GOW and COD-loving dudebros, and the nostalgia of a Donkey Kong Gameboy game. That's right. Vega's favorite things are Mountain Dew, Madden NFL 2185, and being shot out of a barrel into a trail of bananas.

If i've interpreted what you said wrongly then I'm sorry, but that was the impression you gave off. 

You pointed out that having muscles and a mohawk make him a douchebag - the hair I kinda agree with but why wouldn't a soldier have large muscles? Just seems ridiculous complaining about them when they're almost necessary for his character.

And you said Vega is Bioware's attempt at appealing to GoW and CoD players. That isn't what attracts them - the online MP is what attracts them. Not how bulky the characters look. If that was the case then all CoD players would've migrated to wrestling games years ago. I just find it ridiculous that people still stick to these gaming stereotypes - they're what the media and the tabloids stick to to portray gamers as bad. Surely gamers themselves have gotten over these sterotypes - if we can't then how can we expect the media to give up on them. Not everyone who plays CoD or GoW is some massive 'dudebro'.

I did like the Donkey Kong reference though. I didn't notice that first time.

Yeah, a fauxhawk is pretty douche-adjacent. His muscles don't have much tone, so they seem like they're there just for aesthetic purposes, which could also be a sign of a douchebag. They don't seem like combat muscles at all. Not to mention, the likelihood he'll be doing anything that will require heavy lifting or strength is between slim and none. No arm-wrestling Reapers, I imagine.

I said new players, then I specified they're probably into GOW. And again, I say, by no stretch of the imagination was I ever saying Vega would be or is the main reason, or even a big reason, for why new players might get into Mass Effect. He's just another thing on the pile of things BioWare is doing to appeal to GOW holdouts and new players. I never said all of them are dudebros, just enough of them for BioWare to introduce a character obviously geared toward dudebros. I should have clarified that.

Now I'm not sure what the fatally-vague term "media" has anything to do with this, but sure.

I still get your problem with him muscely. Lots of soldiers have muscles. This isn't unusual. Mohawks look pretty douchebag-y, but it depends on the person frankly as to whether there are indicitive of a doucheag-y person.

And I still don't understand how you think Vega being big will in any way make the game more appealling to GoW fans. People buy it for the MP or the great gameplay or the over-the-top gore. I can't imagine anyone seriously bought it because you play as a bulky character. And even if people did, the fact that you don't play as Vega and the fact that he hasn't been seen in any of the actual marketing so far should indicate how daft it is to think that he's there to expand ME3's audience. If he was the poster boy for ME3 and if you played as him then perhaps, but otherwise its a ridiculous point to make. It just doesn't make sense. 

[alex90c]

HowlHowl wrote...

Yeah, a fauxhawk is pretty douche-adjacent. His muscles don't have much tone, so they seem like they're there just for aesthetic purposes, which could also be a sign of a douchebag. They don't seem like combat muscles at all. Not to mention, the likelihood he'll be doing anything that will require heavy lifting or strength is between slim and none. No arm-wrestling Reapers, I imagine.

I said new players, then I specified they're probably into GOW. And again, I say, by no stretch of the imagination was I ever saying Vega would be or is the main reason, or even a big reason, for why new players might get into Mass Effect. He's just another thing on the pile of things BioWare is doing to appeal to GOW holdouts and new players. I never said all of them are dudebros, just enough of them for BioWare to introduce a character obviously geared toward dudebros. I should have clarified that.

Now I'm not sure what the fatally-vague term "media" has anything to do with this, but sure.

Yes, guys who play a TPS full of herculean muscly men feel that is the kind of thing they want in their games and therefore Vega appeals to them.

Has it not occurred to you at all that this crap you're coming out with might be far fetched? 

Everyone I know thinks in that shot Vega looks like a ******. Some of those people haven't played Mass Effect. Some of them have played GoW. All of them have played CoD. I can quite safely say, Vega does not appeal to them, end of.

[MassStorm]

[HowlHowl]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

HowlHowl wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

HowlHowl wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

How dare a soldier have muscles.

@OP - do you genuinely think that people who enjoy CoD and GoW are going to spend £50 on a game just because it has a guy with muscles and a mohawk? You don't think that perhaps they buy those games because they enjoy the gameplay and won't be that interested in ME3 because it doesn't have a strong focus on competitive online multiplayer?

I mean, you can't actually believe what you're saying. That would be worrying.

I didn't say he shouldn't have muscles. The Hell?

Do you have comprehension problems? I didn't say James Vega was BioWare's main ME3 marketing focus, or some massive industry-changing gimmick, I said they were making a character that might appeal to a certain cultural sensibility we all know is there.

I get that GOW and COD fans that also play ME3 feel like they're often targeted, but I also don't give a damn and propose you make sure someone is actually an enemy of the games before you pull out the chainsaw gun.

At first, he just looks like a douchebag with his cool hawk and big muscles, but then I realized: James Vega is BioWare's attempt at combining what will appeal to their new players, GOW and COD-loving dudebros, and the nostalgia of a Donkey Kong Gameboy game. That's right. Vega's favorite things are Mountain Dew, Madden NFL 2185, and being shot out of a barrel into a trail of bananas.

If i've interpreted what you said wrongly then I'm sorry, but that was the impression you gave off. 

You pointed out that having muscles and a mohawk make him a douchebag - the hair I kinda agree with but why wouldn't a soldier have large muscles? Just seems ridiculous complaining about them when they're almost necessary for his character.

And you said Vega is Bioware's attempt at appealing to GoW and CoD players. That isn't what attracts them - the online MP is what attracts them. Not how bulky the characters look. If that was the case then all CoD players would've migrated to wrestling games years ago. I just find it ridiculous that people still stick to these gaming stereotypes - they're what the media and the tabloids stick to to portray gamers as bad. Surely gamers themselves have gotten over these sterotypes - if we can't then how can we expect the media to give up on them. Not everyone who plays CoD or GoW is some massive 'dudebro'.

I did like the Donkey Kong reference though. I didn't notice that first time.

Yeah, a fauxhawk is pretty douche-adjacent. His muscles don't have much tone, so they seem like they're there just for aesthetic purposes, which could also be a sign of a douchebag. They don't seem like combat muscles at all. Not to mention, the likelihood he'll be doing anything that will require heavy lifting or strength is between slim and none. No arm-wrestling Reapers, I imagine.

I said new players, then I specified they're probably into GOW. And again, I say, by no stretch of the imagination was I ever saying Vega would be or is the main reason, or even a big reason, for why new players might get into Mass Effect. He's just another thing on the pile of things BioWare is doing to appeal to GOW holdouts and new players. I never said all of them are dudebros, just enough of them for BioWare to introduce a character obviously geared toward dudebros. I should have clarified that.

Now I'm not sure what the fatally-vague term "media" has anything to do with this, but sure.

I still get your problem with him muscely. Lots of soldiers have muscles. This isn't unusual. Mohawks look pretty douchebag-y, but it depends on the person frankly as to whether there are indicitive of a doucheag-y person.

And I still don't understand how you think Vega being big will in any way make the game more appealling to GoW fans. People buy it for the MP or the great gameplay or the over-the-top gore. I can't imagine anyone seriously bought it because you play as a bulky character. And even if people did, the fact that you don't play as Vega and the fact that he hasn't been seen in any of the actual marketing so far should indicate how daft it is to think that he's there to expand ME3's audience. If he was the poster boy for ME3 and if you played as him then perhaps, but otherwise its a ridiculous point to make. It just doesn't make sense. 

I don't...have a problem with it. I just think it's comical and cliche.

Do you know what "appeal" means? Do you know that attempting to appeal to a demographic can happen *gasp* after the game begins? Humor me. Imagine a GOW fan who has never had any interest in Mass Effect sees the impressive GOW-esque ME3 trailers and the semblance of coherent multiplayer and decides he'll try it out. Imagine he thinks it's alright but his favorite character is Vega because Vega is a badass with a cool haircut and Kong biceps. Now imagine he likes the game more because that character is in it. Imagine that GOW fan is 50,000 GOW fans who want to play the game more.

See, I could imagine if I said he was a main marketing ploy to get GOW fans and you're still not getting this, but I didn't. I said he's there to appeal to ones that already didn't care for Mass Effect and possibly make them like it that much more.

This is the part where you don't read any of this and still claim that I think he's BioWare's advertisement ace-in-the-hole.

[Lucrece]

Everyone I know thinks Vega is handsome and kickass looking. My anecdote shoots your anecdote in the face.

Sometimes I think these people who react so vehemently against muscular characters have an axe to grind.

Guess what? The only thing that makes you a douchebag is behaving like a douchebag. Judging someone without seeing them in action as a douchebag amusingly exposes you as a douchebag yourself.

Modifié par Lucrece, 10 décembre 2011 - 08:16 .

[Someone With Mass]

MassStorm wrote...

I'm okay with this. DK is awesome. 

[MassStorm]

Someone With Mass wrote...

MassStorm wrote...

I'm okay with this. DK is awesome. 

I agree DK is awesome but Vega........
You are all wrong guys BW does not want to attract with Vega GoW fans..they want to attract Wii fans 

Modifié par MassStorm, 10 décembre 2011 - 08:21 .

[CrazyRah]

MassStorm wrote...

I'm very much okey with this. DK is awesome! :happy:

[HowlHowl]

alex90c wrote...

HowlHowl wrote...

Yeah, a fauxhawk is pretty douche-adjacent. His muscles don't have much tone, so they seem like they're there just for aesthetic purposes, which could also be a sign of a douchebag. They don't seem like combat muscles at all. Not to mention, the likelihood he'll be doing anything that will require heavy lifting or strength is between slim and none. No arm-wrestling Reapers, I imagine.

I said new players, then I specified they're probably into GOW. And again, I say, by no stretch of the imagination was I ever saying Vega would be or is the main reason, or even a big reason, for why new players might get into Mass Effect. He's just another thing on the pile of things BioWare is doing to appeal to GOW holdouts and new players. I never said all of them are dudebros, just enough of them for BioWare to introduce a character obviously geared toward dudebros. I should have clarified that.

Now I'm not sure what the fatally-vague term "media" has anything to do with this, but sure.

Yes, guys who play a TPS full of herculean muscly men feel that is the kind of thing they want in their games and therefore Vega appeals to them.

Has it not occurred to you at all that this crap you're coming out with might be far fetched? 

Everyone I know thinks in that shot Vega looks like a ******. Some of those people haven't played Mass Effect. Some of them have played GoW. All of them have played CoD. I can quite safely say, Vega does not appeal to them, end of.

How far-fetched, that a piece of entertainment media try to appeal to a possible consumer by featuring something that possible consumer is known to appreciate in another piece of entertainment media.

I'm assuming you know the several million GOW fans there are? You are not a standard of gaming, which is why your dozen GOW-playing friends are irrelevant. Wait, what's that? You know people? And some of those people think what? And some fo those people that think that are actually even part of the group that I'm talking about? The outliers are overwhelming here, I guess I'm done.

The difference, of course, between you and I is that what I'm saying is 100% conjecture. But what you say, oh that's "end of".

[Aimi]

You know, I don't have a problem with the fauxhawk. I just wish it were blond so he'd look more like the Honey Badger.

[AdmiralCheez]

I like Vega's face. The derpy, exaggerated features remind me of early videogames, back when fully-rendered cutscenes were a new thing.

Plus, nothing wrong with looking like a gorilla-pig-frog. It makes him more "normal guy," kind of like how Ash and Miranda had real-people faces.

We need less pretty people in our games, man. Time to re-evaluate our standards of beauty.

[HowlHowl]

Lucrece wrote...

Everyone I know thinks Vega is handsome and kickass looking. My anecdote shoots your anecdote in the face.

Sometimes I think these people who react so vehemently against muscular characters have an axe to grind.

Guess what? The only thing that makes you a douchebag is behaving like a douchebag. Judging someone without seeing them in action as a douchebag amusingly exposes you as a douchebag yourself.

I'm so vehement I used his pixelated face to segue into a much broader topic about Mass Effect 3. Yes, down with James Vega. I hate his muscles so much, I made a forum thread about it on a website. Sometimes I think these people who react so vehemently to any minor affront to their opinion are idiots.

[alex90c]

HowlHowl wrote...

alex90c wrote...

HowlHowl wrote...

Yeah, a fauxhawk is pretty douche-adjacent. His muscles don't have much tone, so they seem like they're there just for aesthetic purposes, which could also be a sign of a douchebag. They don't seem like combat muscles at all. Not to mention, the likelihood he'll be doing anything that will require heavy lifting or strength is between slim and none. No arm-wrestling Reapers, I imagine.

I said new players, then I specified they're probably into GOW. And again, I say, by no stretch of the imagination was I ever saying Vega would be or is the main reason, or even a big reason, for why new players might get into Mass Effect. He's just another thing on the pile of things BioWare is doing to appeal to GOW holdouts and new players. I never said all of them are dudebros, just enough of them for BioWare to introduce a character obviously geared toward dudebros. I should have clarified that.

Now I'm not sure what the fatally-vague term "media" has anything to do with this, but sure.

Yes, guys who play a TPS full of herculean muscly men feel that is the kind of thing they want in their games and therefore Vega appeals to them.

Has it not occurred to you at all that this crap you're coming out with might be far fetched? 

Everyone I know thinks in that shot Vega looks like a ******. Some of those people haven't played Mass Effect. Some of them have played GoW. All of them have played CoD. I can quite safely say, Vega does not appeal to them, end of.

How far-fetched, that a piece of entertainment media try to appeal to a possible consumer by featuring something that possible consumer is known to appreciate in another piece of entertainment media.

I'm assuming you know the several million GOW fans there are? You are not a standard of gaming, which is why your dozen GOW-playing friends are irrelevant. Wait, what's that? You know people? And some of those people think what? And some fo those people that think that are actually even part of the group that I'm talking about? The outliers are overwhelming here, I guess I'm done.

The difference, of course, between you and I is that what I'm saying is 100% conjecture. But what you say, oh that's "end of".

The difference between what you and I are saying, is that you are making sweeping generalisations with no evidence backing up your BS in the slightest, whereas I am arguing against you with anecdotal evidence which you respond to with more generalisations.

Modifié par alex90c, 10 décembre 2011 - 08:30 .

[HowlHowl]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

I like Vega's face. The derpy, exaggerated features remind me of early videogames, back when fully-rendered cutscenes were a new thing.

Plus, nothing wrong with looking like a gorilla-pig-frog. It makes him more "normal guy," kind of like how Ash and Miranda had real-people faces.

We need less pretty people in our games, man. Time to re-evaluate our standards of beauty.

I don't really care that much about how the characters look as long as my Shepard can still be the most gorgeous thing to walk the Citadel.

[Ohei]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

I like Vega's face. The derpy, exaggerated features remind me of early videogames, back when fully-rendered cutscenes were a new thing.

Plus, nothing wrong with looking like a gorilla-pig-frog. It makes him more "normal guy," kind of like how Ash and Miranda had real-people faces.

We need less pretty people in our games, man. Time to re-evaluate our standards of beauty.

Ashley had a real-life person face? Wut, who?

Also, I've said it before and I'll say it again. Vega and Shep will fistpump across the goddamn galaxy, and I tell you, it will be good.

[MACharlie1]

Ohei wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

I like Vega's face. The derpy, exaggerated features remind me of early videogames, back when fully-rendered cutscenes were a new thing.

Plus, nothing wrong with looking like a gorilla-pig-frog. It makes him more "normal guy," kind of like how Ash and Miranda had real-people faces.

We need less pretty people in our games, man. Time to re-evaluate our standards of beauty.

Ashley had a real-life person face? Wut, who?

Also, I've said it before and I'll say it again. Vega and Shep will fistpump across the goddamn galaxy, and I tell you, it will be good.

Major characters all had face models; Kaidan, Ashley, Anderson, Udina, Kasumi, Jack...we only know who provided the scans for only a few since most of the scans were from "nameless" models. 

[AdmiralCheez]

Ohei wrote...

Ashley had a real-life person face? Wut, who?

I meant she looked like a normal person.  That's one thing I like about Bioware--they don't have that samey feeling in their characters like comic books and some anime do.