291 réponses à ce sujet

[frags81]

Farlington wrote...

Georg Zoeller wrote...

Then don't. Nobody forces you to buy the additional content.

I have to disagree somewhat. Having a man with a neon "!" above his head the the party camp saying "To get rid of me you have to spend five quid extra because you didn't buy the exact version of the game where you get Wardens Keep unlock codes so I'm going to stand here destroying your immersion until you get your credit card out, is forcing you to buy additional content.

Dragon armour, rings and even Shale don't intrude into the game if you lack them, but Wardens Keep should either be removed from the game entirely in a patch, or included free with EVERY copy of the game.

In every other regard, I have no problems with DLC, but this stinks as bad, if not worse than the DRM in Mass Effect.

Expect illegal downloads to increase just as they did with Mass Effect. Lesson not learned methinks.

If you have a problem with the nagging NPC, why would you expect them to 'patch' the DLC in? Don't you think they should patch out the nagging NPC?

[Farlington]

frags81 wrote...


If you have a problem with the nagging NPC, why would you expect them to 'patch' the DLC in? Don't you think they should patch out the nagging NPC?

Did you not see "Wardens Keep should either be removed from the game entirely in a patch"?

That would indicate that I'm suggesting that exact thing. I'm saying don't include adverts for DLC in the standard game. Remove the guy with a patch, or include the unlock codes for every legitimate copy of the game. I was never given an option of buying a game with Wardens Keep included as in the UK, that was an exclusive to a single vendor which for various reasons I am unwilling to shop with them.

The version of the game I bought had every bit of DLC except for Wardens Keep. Given that its the only one that intrudes into the basic game, I feel cheated.

I have no issues with DLC in general, in fact I like the idea of the optional element, but in this case it doesn't feel optional.

[Oeacle]

The good thing though, Warden. . . is so bad, you don't really miss out.

[rp2009]

I have the original game, and got the armor and the stone prisioner for free. That made me buy Wardens Keep, and I think its a little short, but I want it just the same. I liked the place, the story, the armor, and the sword it bring and because it was good, it felt even more short.

I will also buy the return to Ostagard when it is released. Even 1 hour of content for this game, is good to have.

All this is my choice, I could choose not to buy anything, so stop making this kind of posts.

I love this game, its simply one of the best rpgs ever made (the best medieval one for sure), and I will get every add-on I can get because so far I'm having a blast playing it.

[french lies]

Expect illegal downloads to increase just as they did with Mass Effect. Lesson not learned methinks.

And people wonder why the industry is abandoning PC gaming. That you think this is even remotely acceptable, or fitting as "punishment" for Bioware's sin of trying to make money off their products is disturbing.



The character in your camp is there as in-game advertising for optional content. If he wasn't there, 90% of players would not know that the DLC existed, buried as it is beneath layers of menus on Steam, PSN or XBL. Would you prefer ads on the loading screen, or a giant billboard in Denerim? From Bioware's standpoint, they want to make their content accessible to all players, and this is one of the least immersion-breaking ways of doing so.

[DMTyrisis]

I really wish the people that keep posting this crap would stop playing the game.



It would make for a better community!

[Farlington]

french lies wrote...

Expect illegal downloads to increase just as they did with Mass Effect. Lesson not learned methinks.

And people wonder why the industry is abandoning PC gaming. That you think this is even remotely acceptable, or fitting as "punishment" for Bioware's sin of trying to make money off their products is disturbing.

The character in your camp is there as in-game advertising for optional content. If he wasn't there, 90% of players would not know that the DLC existed, buried as it is beneath layers of menus on Steam, PSN or XBL. Would you prefer ads on the loading screen, or a giant billboard in Denerim? From Bioware's standpoint, they want to make their content accessible to all players, and this is one of the least immersion-breaking ways of doing so.

Erm, where did I sanction piracy or claim it was acceptable? I added no meaning outside the words I wrote.

I mention piracy because in both cases, legitimate customers (not pirates) feel cheated. This leads them onto acts of piracy as they seek to achieve what they see as a fair solution.

As for advertising, why on earth does it need to be in the game? In NWN2, the loader came with autopatcher advertising that updated as the game did. I open DA:O and see the same loader. There is no reason whatsoever that the advert needs to appear in the game itself. You mention billboards in the game, well thats exactly what they have done. The man is in the player camp (the most visited area in the game) standing next to the enchanter and shop with a neon "!" above his head. A giant billboard in Denerim would be less intrusive!

[kayapo]

To be honest I think $49,00 dollars is actually pretty cheap considering the amount of enterteinment that a good computer game gives. 100+s of hours of fun.



I pay $20,00 for two hours of a movie (and most of the time it isn't even a good one)

I pay $40,00+ to go to a theater

I pay $50,00+ for any common night out on a weekend



50 bucks for this game is actually a steal.



What I think is unfair is that a game like this one is priced the same way as most awfull horrible games that are out on the market. Now that is unfair.

[french lies]

Farlington wrote...  Erm, where did I sanction piracy or claim it was acceptable? I added no meaning outside the words I wrote. I mention piracy because in both cases, legitimate customers (not pirates) feel cheated. This leads them onto acts of piracy as they seek to achieve what they see as a fair solution. As for advertising, why on earth does it need to be in the game? In NWN2, the loader came with autopatcher advertising that updated as the game did. I open DA:O and see the same loader. There is no reason whatsoever that the advert needs to appear in the game itself. You mention billboards in the game, well thats exactly what they have done. The man is in the player camp (the most visited area in the game) standing next to the enchanter and shop with a neon "!" above his head. A giant billboard in Denerim would be less intrusive!

The vast majority of people who pirate games do so because they can get stuff for free, not because of political or philosophical problems with DRM or DLC. The latter is a myth made up by a vocal subgroup of PC gamers who are largely ignorant of the reality of escalating development costs and fancy themselves as the vanguard in the battle against an "exploitative" industry (e.g one trying to actually do business instead of sinking money into poorly selling products until the ink runs red and then folding like in the good old days). See the L4D boycott as another example of this.

I see nothing wrong with having the NPC in the game, and if it increases the sale of the DLC then that's all the better since it gives Bioware more money to develop good games. It is far less immersion-breaking than an actual billboard saying "BUY WARDEN'S KEEP NOW -- NEW DLC AVAILABLE" and less annoying than an ad on the loading screen.

Your post implies at least a tacid acceptance of piracy as a "fair" solution for a supposed disgruntled consumer annoyed at having to pay the price of a sandwich for an hour of content (remember that localization and porting also factor into the production cost of the DLC, WK also includes character-specific dialog for every character). Maybe this makes sense from your perspective but I have trouble seeing this as anything but creative excuses for "I want stuff for free. Give it to me".

[Taerda]

french lies wrote... ... The latter is a myth made up by a vocal subgroup of PC gamers who are largely ignorant of the reality of escalating development costs and fancy themselves as the vanguard in the battle against an "exploitative" industry (e.g one trying to actually do business instead of sinking money into poorly selling products until the ink runs red and then folding like in the good old days). See the L4D boycott as another example of this. ...

Too bad these "strapped" companies make more on their releases then blockbuster movies do. EA/Activision/Sega will be fighting anti-trust cases sooner then later in both Europe and North America ... it is only a matter of time. There are actually smaller houses that don't buy into the DRM argument, but who have been making great games for a lot less money invested for years. As an example see Paradox International ... EA got its butt handed to it with its bs on Spore ... as it should have and for companies like Sega who keep messing with their fans, they will learn that despite spending 100 million on shoddy AI and final product - people will just not buy their titles any longer.

I have bought Bioware's DLC, because I do not have to go through a third party (like mcrosoft for Fallout 3) or a platform like Steam which I find to be intrusive and invasive ... and because Bioware continues to support the PC.

Your claim that DRM and DLC is necessitated by escalating costs is just an indicator that you are sipping the kool-aid delivered by most corporate bean counters and not really aware of the truth as it exists.

[Tasmac]

Lets see...
Diablo II ...yup bought the expantion and will buy III
DugeonSiege.. yup bought all of them
NWN........ yup bought all of them
NWN2.......yup bought all of them too
Fable II......yup bought as much downloadable content as available
Oblivion....yup bought the expansions
If a game is good and Dragon age IS we will buy or atleast I will
I dont understand the OP's point or the need to post
instead of having to drive to a store stand in line deal with unrulely people
I can sit in my office and simlply download...I like the idea of downloadable content
BRING It on Bioware This game has lost of room to expand...no its not multiplayer but the game is great

Modifié par Tasmac, 27 novembre 2009 - 03:15 .

[french lies]

Taerda wrote... 

Too bad these "strapped" companies make more on their releases then blockbuster movies do. 

Right, as evidenced by the recent stellar financial performance of EA and Sega. Activision however, which by your metric is the most evil of these corporations, is making money hand over fist and its universally reviled CEO just sold stock for $18,000,000.

And LOL at you mentioning Paradox: they make niche strategy games with cheap assets and as such they need way less money to break even than a huge AAA production with HD graphics does. If you think every game company could afford to run its shop like Paradox does you're sorely mistaken.

Modifié par french lies, 27 novembre 2009 - 03:18 .

[VanDraegon]

mstermith wrote...

[Nothing to see here. Move along.]

Looks like somone stayed up past his bedtime. Mommy and Daddy are going to ground you behaving like that.



EDIT: Quote edited by Moderator.

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 27 novembre 2009 - 06:55 .

[smurfdude]

YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUY ANY EXTRA CONTENT, IT IS OPTIONAL!



Is it such a hard concept to understand? You buy a game that already has a load of content, then you get the option to add more content at a price. I fail to see the problem with this. If you want the content, you buy it. if you don't want the content, you don't. If you want the content but don't want to pay, then get a better job.

[Sylixe]

I think the best part of this post is that so many are up in arms over extra cost for addons that they feel should have been added already.  However i would bet many of them play an MMO or have played one and saw no problem paying their $15 a month for the privelege to play and got some crap added content "free" every 4-5 months.  Mathematically that's like paying $45-60 every couple of months for some additional content as well.

However that's okay right?  Even though you are forced to take that content regardless of whether you want it or not. 

Modifié par Sylixe, 27 novembre 2009 - 07:04 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

The DLC NPC is a lot less intrusive if you turn off the plot helpers.

I have never seen a floating ! in the game, and never has the presence of a quest-giver bothered me.

[Farlington]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

The DLC NPC is a lot less intrusive if you turn off the plot helpers.
I have never seen a floating ! in the game, and never has the presence of a quest-giver bothered me.

Good tip, thanks.

[Habelo]

Hurray for all the coolass fanboys going "none cares what you think, and your opinion doesnt matter".



Ofcourse his opinion matters, both philosophical (democratic, everyones opinion matters) and practical (piracy). So just please stop with the bull****ting and making it look like you are the wiser. Or well continue, atleast you are good enough to make me laugh

[UlteriorModem]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

The DLC NPC is a lot less intrusive if you turn off the plot helpers.
I have never seen a floating ! in the game, and never has the presence of a quest-giver bothered me.

Oh good god.. is it so hard?

Yes I talked to him I know what he wants I prefer to ignore him.

Kind of like hanging up on the telemarketer. Or as i do put them on hold then take bets on how long they will stay there.

[Xarahaze]

Mistersunshine wrote...

I'll buy as much DLC as you can possibly put out, pay any price for it that you feel is reasonable, and I'll do it on the day it's released with no questions asked.

And I don't think I'm alone.

TO partake in talent such as this and participate in this realm they created... AMEN to that Mistersunshine, You ARE NOT alone brother!

[SirGCal]

Mayo98577 wrote...

I'm sorry bioware, I'm not going to spend $60 for a new game and then have to pay MORE to get all the in game content.

Stop buying rip-off games or for the overpriced consoles. I got all of the DLC and the game for $51 total with one of the deluxe download package sales....

I never understood why PC games come out 40-50 release prices while consoles which are 4+ year old computer tech basically unable to do much with modern software cost 60-80 each.... Plus then you have to pay your $40-60/year for online community support.... And what's sad, I diss the consoles, and I own them all. Haven't touched one in over a year but... They collect dust nicely on the shelf.

Anyhow, shop more carefully, or buy the better PC version if possible. Etc. I wouldn't pay $60 just for the main game either, that's a ripoff. Even the full price for the Deluxe edition with the DLC included was only $64 (I had a coupon).

[Deathstyk85]

is it bad that i just skimmed through this to read the bioware/moderator posts since all of the rest of it is the same two comments reworded? i feel like this entire thread is plagiarism =P

[StoutYeoman]

Does anybody happen to know what the total cost is in USD to unlock all of the "optional" "premium" "downloadable content?" I wager it's far more than the cost of the game at retail. Expansion packs are usually cheaper than a full-price game.

I posted another thread about this same thing, then discovered that it has already been a hot topic for some time. I did search the forum before posting, but it appears my search was not thorough enough.

Many folks disagreed with what I had to say, but I stand by my original statement. The fact of the matter is that these little "dowloadable content" bits make me feel like I'm getting shaken down for more money when I'm playing the game I paid for.

Some people argued that this content is like "little expansion packs." That would be a great argument, but I don't feel the value of the dlc is great enough. For $7 USD you get what, 400 points? Some DLC costs 600+ points... so for $17 USD I get 1 quest and a handful of items. That's half the cost of an expansion already! Someone had also said that there is no ethical issue here, but that is a matter of opinion. It's the same way I feel about the advertisements in the menu at the cheesecake factory. I'm paying for my food... why are there advertisements in the menu? Only with DAO it's more like a menu at the cheesecake factory that is full of advertisements for the cheesecake factory.

Many did point out that the DLC is totally optional, and I get that. I suppose I can't be too "outraged" by it... however, I do still feel that it is unethical to try to sell additonal products to players in-game. It is the equivalent of watching a movie you've paid to see, which is interrupted several times throughout by a character in the movie telling you that something else happened elsewhere during this scene, but you can only watch it if you pay 20% of your ticket price again.

In my other post I had used DVDs as an example of how it's a bad scheme - some folks disagreed with me citing that "special" or "collectors" editions contained those scenes... but that's not quite the same. If there were a special edition of DAO with all those things included and at a reasonable price I would be pleased with that. This is more like your DVD containing commercials for other DVDs. Not previews, but actual interruptions of the film.

Many of you will disagree with me, and that's fine. Maybe you don't mind this sort of thing and you can just ignore it, or you're so used to being marketed to in similar ways that it doesn't phase you - but I still feel that it's wrong to pay full-price for something only to have "premium content" marketed to me throughout. 

In closing, for any of you who actually read this, thanks. I hope this type of pricing model dies. If EA/Bioware wants to release additional content, that's fine... but I don't want it constantly pushed on me while I'm playing the game - and it shouldn't be as overpriced as it is. Before finishing this venting session however, I do want to make a comment about the rudeness I've experienced from people on this forum. It's really unnecessary. I get that this is the internet and that rudeness is a fact of life here - but there's no need to try and run a guy down because he's got a gripe with the way the company who made the games does things. It's not like it was YOUR idea. If you haven't got anything constructive or supportive to offer, just let it go. Scroll down to the next post.

[StoutYeoman]

SirGCal wrote...

Stop buying rip-off games or for the overpriced consoles. I got all of the DLC and the game for $51 total with one of the deluxe download package sales....

Ah, that answers one of my questions. If I had known there were a special edition of the game with all the DLC included I might not have been so annoyed about it.

[Deathstyk85]

so far? theres 12 dollars worth of dlc. thats wardens keep, and the upcoming return to ostagar.

the stone prisoner is free with any new copy of the game, so dont rent or buy used