Whether it was really a "help" for any of those semi-uplifted species (elcor, raloi) remains a question.Vilio1 wrote...
We know the asari helped other species (read the elcor history codex entry) and they don't launch intergalactic wars of conquest. That's good enough for me.
Modifié par John Renegade, 11 décembre 2011 - 10:37 .
John Renegade wrote...
How many people died in the krogan rebellions needlessly until the council decided to intervene? ( = until an asari colony has been attacked?)Barquiel wrote...
John Renegade wrote...
I would really want to know what use the asari were in the last three thousand years to the other species.
How many wars have there been in the last 3000 years...
- on earth?
- in council space?
This should answer your question.
This isn't about a number of wars, but about a number of people dead. The asari have no better account of handling this kind of situations than humans do.
You claim they are useless, so you prove your point. Even if they remained neutral it would be better than supporting the turians to destroy the humans. However, Asari seem rather tolerant and liberal in general. I am sure without them the galaxy would look worse. Alone the fact actually that they are on the council makes them useful in many ways. Of all the asari I met in game I couldn't find many differences to humans. Aside from their age and that they are blue.John Renegade wrote...
And you know about such diplomatic details from where...?
Where do you take the certainty, that the asari didn't remain neutral and that the turians didn't reluctantly withdraw from the war because the salarians threatened to break the close military cooperation thing they had going with the turians? (the salarians would feel threatened and the turians would in the end decide, that the conflict wasn't worth it)
John Renegade wrote...
Whether it was really a "help" for any of those semi-uplifted species (elcor, raloi) remains a question.Vilio1 wrote...
We know the asari helped other species (read the elcor history codex entry) and they don't launch intergalactic wars of conquest. That's good enough for me.
The hanar did far more, when they saved the drell.
If they remained neutral (=did nothing), then they were useless.AlexXIV wrote...
You claim they are useless, so you prove your point. Even if they remained neutral it would be better than supporting the turians to destroy the humans. However, Asari seem rather tolerant and liberal in general. I am sure without them the galaxy would look worse. Alone the fact actually that they are on the council makes them useful in many ways. Of all the asari I met in game I couldn't find many differences to humans. Aside from their age and that they are blue.John Renegade wrote...
And you know about such diplomatic details from where...?
Where do you take the certainty, that the asari didn't remain neutral and that the turians didn't reluctantly withdraw from the war because the salarians threatened to break the close military cooperation thing they had going with the turians? (the salarians would feel threatened and the turians would in the end decide, that the conflict wasn't worth it)
John Renegade wrote...
Most of human history the human population was relatively small, so yes, the numbers would pale in comparison to those of the citadel colonies (population on these worlds numbers in millions)
You missed the point. I was talking about how they completely ignored suffering of the other races which pleaded them for help.1136342t54 wrote...
John Renegade wrote...
How many people died in the krogan rebellions needlessly until the council decided to intervene? ( = until an asari colony has been attacked?)Barquiel wrote...
John Renegade wrote...
I would really want to know what use the asari were in the last three thousand years to the other species.
How many wars have there been in the last 3000 years...
- on earth?
- in council space?
This should answer your question.
This isn't about a number of wars, but about a number of people dead. The asari have no better account of handling this kind of situations than humans do.
Actually they kind of do. Hell lets assume millions died in those wars. Shrugs worse than the World Wars but not soo much worse. Lets assume possibly a billion or more died. Still in a time span of thousands of years only really 2 major wars that started out of Reaper manipulation and a result of attempting to save the Galaxy I'd say diplomatically they were able to solve most of their problems. The Rachni and Krogan were almost OCP due to Reaper manipulation.
Modifié par John Renegade, 11 décembre 2011 - 10:44 .
Why do you think I said that the citadel colonies attacked by the krogan had millions of people? Yeah, I put things into perspective.Wulfram wrote...
John Renegade wrote...
Most of human history the human population was relatively small, so yes, the numbers would pale in comparison to those of the citadel colonies (population on these worlds numbers in millions)
Which is why doing absolute numbers is obviously stupid, and I suggested you compare proportions.
Do you think that over the course of the last 2000 years, you'd have more chance of dieing violently as a subject of the Council than as an inhabitant of Earth?
Modifié par John Renegade, 11 décembre 2011 - 10:43 .
John Renegade wrote...
You missed the point. I was talking about how they completely ignored suffering of the other races which pleaded them for help.
Also rachni - dealt with thanks to the krogan (uplifted by the salarians)
Krogans - dealt with thanks to the turians
Modifié par 1136342t54 , 11 décembre 2011 - 10:46 .
John Renegade wrote...
If they remained neutral (=did nothing), then they were useless.AlexXIV wrote...
You claim they are useless, so you prove your point. Even if they remained neutral it would be better than supporting the turians to destroy the humans. However, Asari seem rather tolerant and liberal in general. I am sure without them the galaxy would look worse. Alone the fact actually that they are on the council makes them useful in many ways. Of all the asari I met in game I couldn't find many differences to humans. Aside from their age and that they are blue.John Renegade wrote...
And you know about such diplomatic details from where...?
Where do you take the certainty, that the asari didn't remain neutral and that the turians didn't reluctantly withdraw from the war because the salarians threatened to break the close military cooperation thing they had going with the turians? (the salarians would feel threatened and the turians would in the end decide, that the conflict wasn't worth it)
Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 11 décembre 2011 - 10:47 .
I wasn't the one who brought up rachni in the first place.1136342t54 wrote...
John Renegade wrote...
You missed the point. I was talking about how they completely ignored suffering of the other races which pleaded them for help.
Also rachni - dealt with thanks to the krogan (uplifted by the salarians)
Krogans - dealt with thanks to the turians
They didn't ignore it they were attempting a peaceful way to end the violence instead of going in guns blazing.
I was speaking about keeping the peace not ending wars. The Asari effectively kept the peace from most threats in the galaxy. Humanity wouldn't have done things any differently to be honest. Against the Rachni most other races wouldn't be able to beat them to the numbers advantage so uplifting the Krogan would have been a must.
Against the Krogan the Turians didn't actually deal with the the Salarians actually did. They created the genophage the Turians just brought some time.
Edit: Fact is the Council kept the peace far longer from actual conventional threats that normally occurs in the galaxy. There is no point in blaming the council for a Reaper plan or attempting to make a counter to a freaking Reaper bug army.
Personal opinions about Liara aside, you can't judge an entire species based on the actions of one person.AlexXIV wrote...
John Renegade wrote...
If they remained neutral (=did nothing), then they were useless.AlexXIV wrote...
You claim they are useless, so you prove your point. Even if they remained neutral it would be better than supporting the turians to destroy the humans. However, Asari seem rather tolerant and liberal in general. I am sure without them the galaxy would look worse. Alone the fact actually that they are on the council makes them useful in many ways. Of all the asari I met in game I couldn't find many differences to humans. Aside from their age and that they are blue.John Renegade wrote...
And you know about such diplomatic details from where...?
Where do you take the certainty, that the asari didn't remain neutral and that the turians didn't reluctantly withdraw from the war because the salarians threatened to break the close military cooperation thing they had going with the turians? (the salarians would feel threatened and the turians would in the end decide, that the conflict wasn't worth it)
Well it depends. Sometimes remaining neutral is the best call. But we don't know that anyway, as you said, we were not eyewitness. I see that you really want them to be useless, so ... whatever. I know at least one Asari who is useful. Liara.
John Renegade wrote...
Why do you think I said that the citadel colonies attacked by the krogan had millions of people? Yeah, I put things into perspective.
Why would they have to give anything. It's not just a human only threat like they all thought the Collectors were. It's a threat against everyone and ending the threat as soon as possible would be the best thing.MisterJB wrote...
armass wrote...
Medhia Nox wrote...
Well - I certainly hope the other alien races play an amazing role in saving Earth... so they can finally say.
"Are you done being hyper paranoid psychotics? Ready to act like a species of the future instead of the same stupid apes you started as?"
Alien Armada coming to save Earth with Shepard should shut Terra Firma up for good. Or at least give them something to think about.
That will depend on what humanity will have to give them in return for the help.
Wulfram wrote...
John Renegade wrote...
Why do you think I said that the citadel colonies attacked by the krogan had millions of people? Yeah, I put things into perspective.
But to get the full perspective, you need to remember that the population of the whole galaxy numbers in the Trillions
Chris Priestly wrote...
Without spoiling the story at all, it is almost the opposite.
Earth is being destroyed by the Reapers. Without the help Shepard can collect around the galaxy from other races (or other human outposts), earth is doomed.
We've got a bit sidelined here, I think. The argument was about whether the asari helped someone in the galaxy. Whether they were useful TO THE OTHER SPECIES. We couldn't find any provable occasion on which they were. That should be enough to prove my original statement about their uselesness.Vilio1 wrote...
Wulfram wrote...
John Renegade wrote...
Why do you think I said that the citadel colonies attacked by the krogan had millions of people? Yeah, I put things into perspective.
But to get the full perspective, you need to remember that the population of the whole galaxy numbers in the Trillions
I also doubt that the krogan killed everybody on these conquered planets (it's not mentioned in the codex).
Then why continue comment on it then.John Renegade wrote...
I wasn't the one who brought up rachni in the first place.
False they were able to unite multiple races in Citadel Space and create a peace in which only 2 real major wars occred (3 if you count Geth rebellions). The first war was due to Reaper involvement not the fault of the council. Second war was a result to fight the Reapers that backfired in the end. The Geth rebellions was a mixture of Geth and Quarian problems not the Council.Their diplomacy hasn't solved a thing.
So you are going to assume that for no apparent reason every single species with all their faults just up and decided to get along happily simply because they are good people not due to a species specifically described by the in game codex, in game dialogue and other sources to be excellent diplomats and the reason the council was formed?Also, we don't know about any other potential threats, so we better not speculate on whether or not did they actually happen and whether or not the asari were useful for once.
False.John Renegade wrote...
We've got a bit sidelined here, I think. The argument was about whether the asari helped someone in the galaxy. Whether they were useful TO THE OTHER SPECIES. We couldn't find any provable occasion on which they were. That should be enough to prove my original statement about their uselesness.
John Renegade wrote...
We've got a bit sidelined here, I think. The argument was about whether the asari helped someone in the galaxy. Whether they were useful TO THE OTHER SPECIES. We couldn't find any provable occasion on which they were. That should be enough to prove my original statement about their uselesness.
They didn't "unite" anyone. They simply got to the Citadel first and made sure that they stay on top and the other species will have to "negotiate" with them.1136342t54 wrote...
Then why continue comment on it then.John Renegade wrote...
I wasn't the one who brought up rachni in the first place.False they were able to unite multiple races in Citadel Space and create a peace in which only 2 real major wars occred (3 if you count Geth rebellions). The first war was due to Reaper involvement not the fault of the council. Second war was a result to fight the Reapers that backfired in the end. The Geth rebellions was a mixture of Geth and Quarian problems not the Council.Their diplomacy hasn't solved a thing.
When you have over a thousand years of peace then you are doing something right. If you can't see that then their is no point in arguing.So you are going to assume that for no apparent reason every single species with all their faults just up and decided to get along happily simply because they are good people not due to a species specifically described by the in game codex, in game dialogue and other sources to be excellent diplomats and the reason the council was formed?Also, we don't know about any other potential threats, so we better not speculate on whether or not did they actually happen and whether or not the asari were useful for once.
1136342t54 wrote...
False.John Renegade wrote...
We've got a bit sidelined here, I think. The argument was about whether the asari helped someone in the galaxy. Whether they were useful TO THE OTHER SPECIES. We couldn't find any provable occasion on which they were. That should be enough to prove my original statement about their uselesness.
Asari formed the Council a gesture that no other race would have really done. Turians aren't really into alliances unless they are on top and Salarians usually consider everyone a threat and always prepare for the worse.
Asari have the largest economy in the galaxy and hell during peace time if a political entity decides to become a problem unlike America if they put an embargo on say a group like the SA it will be utterly disastrous. That can easily be used to keep others in line in case they start trying to saber rattle with other races over some idiotic conflict.
Asari were able to get multiple races into joining Citadel Space. They were also highly likely instrumental in keeping the peace for over a thousand years straight.
Asari were also instrumental in humanity not getting curbstomped into the ground by the Turian military.
Stabilizing the galaxy for their own gain.Vilio1 wrote...
John Renegade wrote...
We've got a bit sidelined here, I think. The argument was about whether the asari helped someone in the galaxy. Whether they were useful TO THE OTHER SPECIES. We couldn't find any provable occasion on which they were. That should be enough to prove my original statement about their uselesness.
There is enough evidence that the asari were useful to other species, as some others have also pointed out in this thread (sharing technology, stabilizing the galaxy).
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