234 réponses à ce sujet

[Phaedon]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

nobody plays halo for the story.

You can't believe how wrong you are on that one.

Modifié par Phaedon, 11 décembre 2011 - 09:39 .

[CannonO]

 Many of you seem to have skipped over the part where I mention that I actually love Mass Effect and expect far more from ME3 than what we have been shown. The game will be great. But why do I have to bet on it based on dug up script leaks and typed out feature lists?
To the person who related it to being like Return of the King, the action filled, war-sweeping-across-the-land, big ending, show me a trailer for that film that lacked in story as much as ME3 trailers and footage. There is a big and incredible story here. They just don't seem to focus as much on those of us who want to see its presence. There was once a clear aim to have the attention of the hardcore story lovers who enjoyed the compliment of the action gameplay. Now it seems reversed - action scenes with brief conversation lines surrounding the fights Shepard is in at the time. Why do some people seem to simplify ME3 down to This is a war, so everything at all times should be like a battlefield in footage. There is more to it than that. There are not constant flames surrounding you and bombs at every place you land. Its a galaxy with a force moving across it, not blowing it up all in one moment so that there is nothing to do in the game besides rally with fighters on battlefields to begin the next shooting sequence. 
We aren't seeing the story build-ups that we used to in the marketing. We aren't seeing the trailers of the characters, conversations, and thought-provoking moods and environments that used to be at the forefront of the Mass Effect pre-release countdown. Some of you seem satisfied in saying they still have time to turn around and bring that to us, but we didn't have to say that with the last two. 
I want the universe that wowed me and made the wait unbearable to be accessible through the marketing as it once was. We all deserve to see that all the things which excite us are still there. Where is that trailer that they could play in a movie theater and have us believe it was of equally great substance to the other trailers we might see there (I am not talking CGI)? At this point, it looks like we are waiting for a shooter set in a sci fi backdrop, not like the sci fi interactive saga we know and love with all its depth. Since this is not the case in truth, I feel the need to voice my disappointment with the lack of pre-release consideration.
I know its a war and I am damn well looking forward to winning it, but its a story and the galaxy is a place, too.

Phaedon wrote...

CannonLars wrote...
Do we want people that are shooter-interested only, or that are what you guys call "VGA viewers" to be the focus? Or should we, who were watching, staying loyal, and interested in all that Mass Effect has and will offer, be included here? I don't think saying that there was a VGA specific trailer explains how the entire marketing series has ended up this way. I think perhaps an attempt to pass this off as a shooter to a market that they are eager to grab, with a franchise that was far from being all about all of what has been shown, has left the fans and the already interested players in the dust specifically with Mass Effect 3 (literally, as in, there are now explosions spreading dust left and right in these trailers).
Is this really all we should be seeing? I am not just asking about the VGAs. For this franchise of cinematic quality, where have our cinema quality trailers gone (I am not referring to cinematic in the CGI Blur trailer meaning)?

I am glad you did this. I am glad that you dropped your mask.
I know that I am talking for at least a few people when I say: You are embarassing us.
Not a single shot was fired in this footage.All that was shown was action.
But you know what? Apparently shooter fans are delinquent frat boys who just want action, and RPG fans are degenerate basement kiddies who only care about stats, only.
Or maybe you should feel ashamed for promoting stereotypes on people who enjoy videogames (Yes! Videogames, it's a bloody videogame!). Maybe some of us enjoy games because simply, they are fun, and recently (and this could very well be BioWare's impact on the industry) because they are telling great stories.
But dynamic gameplay, adrenaline and well, yes, glory be, explosions, apparently can't be appreciated by RPG fans. They can only be appreciated by shooter fans. Good job, Lars. You sure are making all of us look good to the random lurker browsing these forums.

I don't know what footage you mean specifically. If you are only talking about the VGA footage, then surely you noticed I was quoting others who stereotyped VGA viewers. Several people have now said that the action footage in that trailer was because VGA viewers would rather see that. As I have said, that doesn't explain that theme in the rest of the marketing.
I play shooters. I own more shooters than RPGs. Mass Effect happens to be both. We used to see both showcased well in the marketing. Now it is clearly been more focused on its shooter and action elements. You haven't paid attention to what I have said based on your statements that I have been promoting stereotypes, saying that RPG fans or Mass Effect shouldn't include or bring joy through action and shooting in addition to story, implying that I don't understand many people enjoy games, or that I do not like the parts of Mass Effect 3 I am seeing.
This thread is about the fact that I have a problem with the style of game the Mass Effect 3 marketing makes it out to be.
I play games and enjoy them. I do not believe that saying a trailer is for VGA viewers is an excuse (as many of us are VGA viewers and not just shooter fans, but you seemed to have misunderstood that). I play shooters and RPGs. I have played and enjoyed Mass Effect since the very beginning. I have enjoyed the marketing for the previous two games. I do not feel that I am included any longer in the marketing demographic that we are seeing for ME3.
This is about what they are making ME3 out to be through its ad campaign. You'll have to explain the mask comment because as far as I can tell, you just haven't caught my points and the comments that have prompted my responses. I did not come up with the VGA viewer idea. I believe we should have a trailer with far greater representation of what we know to be Mass Effect and this single trailer being at the VGAs does not explain the nature of the rest.

OdanUrr wrote...
I think we may be missing the OP's point, or maybe I am, but as we approach the release date for ME3 (still a few months away, granted), there've been less and less trailers that set us in the mood for its story.
Yes, there's a war going on and the "Earth" trailer tackled that issue superbly, and then some. "Fall of Earth" expanded on that and showed us a lot of the actual gameplay and in-game cutscenes, and we have other strictly-gameplay videos, such as "Squad Leader."
There's nothing wrong with depicting combat in your trailers but there needs to be something more, to my mind, you know, what are you fighting for? What is the price of failure? What tough choices will you be required to make? What inner demons will Shepard have to face? There's no need for the trailer to outright provide answers to these questions, but it could suggest them.
In short, we need more Mass Epicness.

That is along the lines of what I am saying, yes. There is plenty to show in trailers. If you have ever seen a movie trailer or some of the great trailers for the previous two games, you know there is a balance between what story is shown and the action shown. As for spoilers, I don't think every trailer that shows story is a spoiler, do you?

[Candidate 88766]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

nobody plays halo for the story.

we play bioware gamesfor the story, er repeat of story.

*raises hand slowly*

I, uh, kind of got interested in it at first because the lore was kind of cool.

Same here. Halo 3 was what made me buy an Xbox 360 in the first place, along with Oblivion and the future promise of ME (I read an article about it in 2005 and even then I couldn't wait).

The original Halo had a fantastic story - simple, and yet with enough detail and lore for those willing to look for it.

[Arkitekt]

CannonLars wrote...

Does anyone think this is a valid excuse?: 
 "It is hard to encapsulate the story of an RPG into a 1 minute trailer for an awards show or similar. Especially without revealing too many spoilers."

Not only a valid "excuse", but an utterly reasonable strategy.

So I guess I don't need to read the rest of your mental breakdown?

[CannonO]

Arkitekt wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

Does anyone think this is a valid excuse?: 
 "It is hard to encapsulate the story of an RPG into a 1 minute trailer for an awards show or similar. Especially without revealing too many spoilers."

Not only a valid "excuse", but an utterly reasonable strategy.

So I guess I don't need to read the rest of your mental breakdown?

You haven't seen an RPG trailer without spoilers? There are some pretty great stories in the entertainment industry with 1-minute trailers that can showcase the variety and substance without spoiler issues.

[Guanxi]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
You expect a trailer to encapsulate the entirety of a game?  Really?

Rockstar Games seem to be able to perfectly capture the essence, feel, motivations of characters and story/plot details/outlines of their games in minute long trailers (GTA, RDR, LAN, MP3, etc) without spoiling anything.

BioWare's marketing sucks. It's been 6 months of Pew Pew: there are people other than Dude-Bros out there who buy video games.

Modifié par Guanxi, 12 décembre 2011 - 12:17 .

[CannonO]

Guanxi wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...
You expect a trailer to encapsulate the entirety of a game?  Really?

Rockstar Games seem to be able to perfectly capture the essence, feel, motivations of characters and story/plot details/outlines of their games in minute long trailers (GTA, RDR, LAN, MP3, etc) without spoiling anything.

BioWare's marketing sucks. It's been 6 months of Pew Pew: the are people other than Dude-Bros out there who buy video games.

Good example. Rockstar is another one of the great storytellers in this industry. They manage to stick with cinema quality trailer editing that has a whole lot of story scenes without spoilers, while also making the nature of the gameplay clear.

[Guanxi]

CannonLars wrote...

Guanxi wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...
You expect a trailer to encapsulate the entirety of a game?  Really?

Rockstar Games seem to be able to perfectly capture the essence, feel, motivations of characters and story/plot details/outlines of their games in minute long trailers (GTA, RDR, LAN, MP3, etc) without spoiling anything.

BioWare's marketing sucks. It's been 6 months of Pew Pew: the are people other than Dude-Bros out there who buy video games.

Good example. Rockstar is another one of the great storytellers in this industry. They manage to stick with cinema quality trailer editing that has a whole lot of story scenes without spoilers, while also making the nature of the gameplay clear.

Exactly. Every time Rockstar launch major trailers their website crashes... why do people care about their trailers THAT much? Because R*'s trailers are thought-provoking peices of entertainment in their own right that fans can disect for weeks. BioWare trailers are like obligatory bathroom-breakers. There's no great care or thought put into them by comparison. No passion. All of the best Mass Effect trailers are fan made.

As for R* you really feel the pride they have in their games (down to their attention to detail)... it shines through in their trailers. That's what's infectious.There's so much ambition to what they do on display (much like BioWare) but you'd never get that same sense from watching BioWare ads.

Modifié par Guanxi, 12 décembre 2011 - 12:54 .

[CannonO]

Guanxi wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

Guanxi wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...
You expect a trailer to encapsulate the entirety of a game?  Really?

Rockstar Games seem to be able to perfectly capture the essence, feel, motivations of characters and story/plot details/outlines of their games in minute long trailers (GTA, RDR, LAN, MP3, etc) without spoiling anything.

BioWare's marketing sucks. It's been 6 months of Pew Pew: the are people other than Dude-Bros out there who buy video games.

Good example. Rockstar is another one of the great storytellers in this industry. They manage to stick with cinema quality trailer editing that has a whole lot of story scenes without spoilers, while also making the nature of the gameplay clear.

Exactly. Every time Rockstar launch major trailers their website crashes... why do people care about their trailers THAT much? Because R*'s trailers are thought-provoking peices of entertainment in their own right that fans can disect for weeks. BioWare trailers are like obligatory bathroom-breakers. There's no great care or thought put into them by comparison. No passion. All of the best Mass Effect trailers are fan made.

As for R* you really feel the pride they have in their games (down to their attention to detail)... it shines through in their trailers. That's what's infectious.There's so much ambition to what they do on display (much like BioWare) but you'd never get that same sense from watching BioWare ads.

I've felt this way about ME1 and ME2, but I have yet to see the same goals in footage released for ME3. That is my issue. I want to see that the direction it holds that I love is there in that way. I believe that this is there, but I am just down as I wait for those great moments that get me excited for the release. I haven't had to rely on fact sheets for excitement before, but now, it seems I do.

Where is that quality and substance and variety? Where are the parts where my attention is grabbed by more than mechs flying in, Reapers shooting away, and Shepard dashing to kill? 

[Kaiser Shepard]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Who misses when Mass Effect looked like the next great sci fi film epic in stunning vista cities, soft synth music that embodied the futuristic universe, moody conversations in neon-lit hubs, and scenes of an open and uncharted galaxy to explore in the purple and blue lens flare of promise?

Sorry, but that dream is gone.

No more sparkle, no more big, wide galaxy for you to explore. No more promise. Because that galaxy you love is getting its ass kicked.

The Citadel? Probably a refugee camp. Ilium? A crater. Your galaxy map? Smeared with the red indicators of advancing enemy forces, lightly speckled with the little green dots that represent the few strongholds you have left. Your bubbly, moody synths have been drowned out by the sound of gunfire and the agonizing screams of prisoners of war as the Reapers twist them into mindless, hideous monsters to do their bidding.

That's why ME3 is gonna be powerful. That's your galaxy they're attacking.

Now go save what's left of it, kid.

Why hello there, Mr. Silverman.

[AdmiralCheez]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Why hello there, Mr. Silverman.

How did you know?

[DxWill10]

I'm not sure I understand. What specifically were you wanting Bioware to show in the trailer at the VGAs? A few minutes of Shepard having dialogue with a squad mate? Deciding how to customize his squad mates / guns? Making a blatantly obvious paragon decision?

Seems when it comes to trailers, RPG or not, showing these things ^ (ME fan or not) would make for a boring trailer. Especially one that's being shown additionally to a live audience.

[C9316]

I'm sorry that you can't just talk to random strangers or explore a poorly textured planet, this is a galatic war we are talking about. Aside from maybe a few places like Sur'kesh the galaxy is going to be in the state of complete war, yes ME3 is about a galactic war if y'all have forgotten that means those beautiful places are most likely run down ruins due to the invading reapers. That's also why the scope of the game is much higher than both ME1 and ME2. Either fall in line or step aside, the choice is yours.

Modifié par C9316, 12 décembre 2011 - 02:57 .

[Ghost-621]

Phaedon wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

nobody plays halo for the story.

You can't believe how wrong you are on that one.

I got into it for the story. Not for the multiplayer. That came later, about...three years later.

Same thing for Mass Effect, I got into it because of its story and lore. Not the crap they've been churning out in the past year.

[Il Divo]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

nobody plays halo for the story.

we play bioware gamesfor the story, er repeat of story.

*raises hand slowly*

I, uh, kind of got interested in it at first because the lore was kind of cool.

Same here. I've probably beaten each campaign at least five times apiece...and I've never been online for multiplayer.

[crimzontearz]

I have never......EVER played Halo MP...I refused to play ODST and Reach because the story in the former was uniteresting and because I KNEW Reach was a "suicide" run of a game......

[Fiery Phoenix]

crimzontearz wrote...

I have never......EVER played Halo MP...I refused to play ODST and Reach because the story in the former was uniteresting and because I KNEW Reach was a "suicide" run of a game......

ODST really isn't as bad as people make it out to be. You'd need to play it to understand, but believe me when I say I thoroughly enjoyed it. It gives a new feel to the Halo universe, one which I never experienced playing as Master Chief. It's a completely new perspective.

Modifié par Fiery Phoenix, 12 décembre 2011 - 04:11 .

[Il Divo]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

I have never......EVER played Halo MP...I refused to play ODST and Reach because the story in the former was uniteresting and because I KNEW Reach was a "suicide" run of a game......

ODST really isn't as bad as people make it out to be. You'd need to play it to understand, but believe me when I say I thoroughly enjoyed it. It gives a new feel to the Halo universe, one which I never experienced playing as Master Chief. It's a completely new perspective.

The first time I played ODST, my younger brother forced me and I couldn't stand it. I gave it another shot about a year later...and I was surprised at how much I enjoyed it. It just might be my favorite Halo from an environments and music perspective. They managed to pull of the Noir atmosphere perfectly while playing as "The Rookie".

Modifié par Il Divo, 12 décembre 2011 - 04:24 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

crimzontearz wrote...

I have never......EVER played Halo MP...I refused to play ODST and Reach because the story in the former was uniteresting and because I KNEW Reach was a "suicide" run of a game......

Ugh, people like you are why most devs don't have the guts to make games with proper deaths. Hence why we'll get happy sunshine and rainbows science-fantasy (but mostly fantasy) ME3, instead of one that even comes close to the magnificence that was Reach' plot.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 12 décembre 2011 - 04:44 .

[Ghost-621]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

I have never......EVER played Halo MP...I refused to play ODST and Reach because the story in the former was uniteresting and because I KNEW Reach was a "suicide" run of a game......

Ugh, people like you are why most devs don't have the guts to make games with proper deaths. Hence why we'll get happy sunshine and rainbows science-fantasy (but mostly fantasy) ME3, instead of one that even comes close to the magnificence that was Reach' plot.

To be honest (I know I'm painting an even bigger target on my head here), Reach's plot was awesome. That story was tragic, the ending was tragic, but resolute. Absolute. ME3 is not.

[Seboist]

Ghost-621 wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

I have never......EVER played Halo MP...I refused to play ODST and Reach because the story in the former was uniteresting and because I KNEW Reach was a "suicide" run of a game......

Ugh, people like you are why most devs don't have the guts to make games with proper deaths. Hence why we'll get happy sunshine and rainbows science-fantasy (but mostly fantasy) ME3, instead of one that even comes close to the magnificence that was Reach' plot.

To be honest (I know I'm painting an even bigger target on my head here), Reach's plot was awesome. That story was tragic, the ending was tragic, but resolute. Absolute. ME3 is not.

Sounds like I'll have to give Reach a try. It sounds better than the space jesus wish fulfillment fantasy that's ME3.

[darthnick427]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Who misses when Mass Effect looked like the next great sci fi film epic in stunning vista cities, soft synth music that embodied the futuristic universe, moody conversations in neon-lit hubs, and scenes of an open and uncharted galaxy to explore in the purple and blue lens flare of promise?

Sorry, but that dream is gone.

No more sparkle, no more big, wide galaxy for you to explore. No more promise. Because that galaxy you love is getting its ass kicked.

The Citadel? Probably a refugee camp. Ilium? A crater. Your galaxy map? Smeared with the red indicators of advancing enemy forces, lightly speckled with the little green dots that represent the few strongholds you have left. Your bubbly, moody synths have been drowned out by the sound of gunfire and the agonizing screams of prisoners of war as the Reapers twist them into mindless, hideous monsters to do their bidding.

That's why ME3 is gonna be powerful. That's your galaxy they're attacking.

Now go save what's left of it, kid.

Cheez you just inspired me to save the galaxy with that rant!! 



Yes Maam!

[PsychoWARD23]

I'm still butthurt about the initial spoiler leaks. Oh man did I get spooled.

[Someone With Mass]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
Ugh, people like you are why most devs don't have the guts to make games with proper deaths. Hence why we'll get happy sunshine and rainbows science-fantasy (but mostly fantasy) ME3, instead of one that even comes close to the magnificence that was Reach' plot.

Yeah, keep telling yourself that.

I'd believe the possibility that the writers came to the point where they realized that they needed to off all the characters, so they threw together some really cheap deaths, threw in some of Marty's classic music and expected everyone to weep at those points a little bit more.

Most of those deaths were either forced beyond belief or so easily avoidable.

[Vertrucio]

Also, you haven't even played ME3 yet, and somehow you can compare it in its entirety to another game?

Calm down and just wait for reviews from writers you trust if you're that skeptical.

No one is asking you to devote your life to the game here.

Modifié par Vertrucio, 12 décembre 2011 - 05:21 .