234 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexXIV]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
If this were a game for adults, it wouldn't deal with the subject of death as if it were a Disney movie.

Thank you for giving an example of the immaturity I was talking about. Learn to make your points without throwing in an insult and we might have something like an adult conversation.

[saturos2]

Ghost-621 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
Ugh, people like you are why most devs don't have the guts to make games with proper deaths. Hence why we'll get happy sunshine and rainbows science-fantasy (but mostly fantasy) ME3, instead of one that even comes close to the magnificence that was Reach' plot.

Yeah, keep telling yourself that.

I'd believe the possibility that the writers came to the point where they realized that they needed to off all the characters, so they threw together some really cheap deaths, threw in some of Marty's classic music and expected everyone to weep at those points a little bit more.

Most of those deaths were either forced beyond belief or so easily avoidable.

Yeah, keep telling yourself that, Someone With Mass.

Thing is, had you actually paid any attention the the character's stories and personal lore, their deaths made sense.  They also had reason.

Emile- Pragmatic, egotistical, distracted in combat.
Kat- Lack of situational awareness (that is how she lost her arm, and that is how she was killed by the sniper)
Carter- Leader to the core, self-sacrificing. He knew he was going to die, had you listened to Auntie Dot, he was near flat-lining. He took the scarab with him to ensure Cortana's safe passage.
Noble Six- Resigned himself to death, wanted to die fighting, knowing he had completed his mission.

Spartan IIIs had incredibly high mortality rates. Anyone who had the slightest grasp on the Halo lore would have known that the story or Noble Team was going to be an "everyone dies" kind of story.

As for Mass Effect 3, we get this hyper-fantasy BS, something that I would expect from a studio of a much lesser pedigree than Bioware, until now.

kat the brains:killed by a sniper
jun the sniper: MIA
emile: died in a "knife" fight
carter the captain: went down with the ship
jorge the demolition expert: dies in an explosion
noble six the lone wolf: dies alone
and i must say these characters deaths are well done.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

In before pro-Cerberus douch...Goddammit!

[Ravensword]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

In before pro-Cerberus douch...Goddammit!

That train is never late.

[Kaiser Shepard]

AlexXIV wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
If this were a game for adults, it wouldn't deal with the subject of death as if it were a Disney movie.

Thank you for giving an example of the immaturity I was talking about. Learn to make your points without throwing in an insult and we might have something like an adult conversation.

I'm not insulting anyone or anything, I'm justing pointing out the facts.

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

In before pro-Cerberus douch...Goddammit!

So typical of you people, to call others names while acting like them yourself.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 12 décembre 2011 - 08:08 .

[Kidd]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Who misses when Mass Effect looked like the next great sci fi film epic in stunning vista cities, soft synth music that embodied the futuristic universe, moody conversations in neon-lit hubs, and scenes of an open and uncharted galaxy to explore in the purple and blue lens flare of promise?

Sorry, but that dream is gone.

No more sparkle, no more big, wide galaxy for you to explore. No more promise. Because that galaxy you love is getting its ass kicked.

The Citadel? Probably a refugee camp. Ilium? A crater. Your galaxy map? Smeared with the red indicators of advancing enemy forces, lightly speckled with the little green dots that represent the few strongholds you have left. Your bubbly, moody synths have been drowned out by the sound of gunfire and the agonizing screams of prisoners of war as the Reapers twist them into mindless, hideous monsters to do their bidding.

That's why ME3 is gonna be powerful. That's your galaxy they're attacking.

Now go save what's left of it, kid.

That was, without a doubt, the best advertising I've ever seen for ME3. Like, wow, that was so... yeah I've already preordered but I'm gonna mentally preorder even harder!! ^^

[Il Divo]

Ghost-621 wrote...

You haven't read the old and new Fall of Reach novels, have you? You can go to the wiki page all you want, but this "rewriting" that you keep mentioning concerning MC and Cortana, are more elaborations than revision.

Ah, but that's the thing. I didn't need to go to the wiki page. You see, I've read the Fall of Reach. And I played Halo: Reach. And you know what? The two did not align in terms of events. Cortana was not on Reach when it fell. The Pillar of Autumn did not set down to save her. In fact, far as we knew, Noble Team didn't even exist until they decided to move the Halo Verse around. The more elaborate the "revisions", the greater the retcon.

And I'm going to point out that good character death is more than showing a corpse and playing some sad music. Halo: Reach takes this great opportunity to tells us a story about the human condition during wartime...and chucks it completely out the window.

Modifié par Il Divo, 12 décembre 2011 - 10:25 .

[Candidate 88766]

 How did this turn into a Halo thread overnight? 

[Il Divo]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

 How did this turn into a Halo thread overnight? 

1. Spamming Troll called Halo fans out that "no one plays Halo for the story".

2. Halo enthusiasts countered, claiming Reach's story was fantastic and superior to ME3's.

3. Mass Effect enthusiasts claimed no it's not.

And that's how we've reached this point anyway.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Il Divo wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

 How did this turn into a Halo thread overnight? 

1. Spamming Troll called Halo fans out that "no one plays Halo for the story".

2. Halo enthusiasts countered, claiming Reach's story was fantastic and superior to ME3's.

3. Mass Effect enthusiasts claimed no it's not.

And that's how we've reached this point anyway.

[Trolling] Halo has a story? [/Trolling]

Both series have different merits and different failings but we all know that our lovely little wretched hive will never accept that.

Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 12 décembre 2011 - 11:26 .

[Il Divo]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

 How did this turn into a Halo thread overnight? 

1. Spamming Troll called Halo fans out that "no one plays Halo for the story".

2. Halo enthusiasts countered, claiming Reach's story was fantastic and superior to ME3's.

3. Mass Effect enthusiasts claimed no it's not.

And that's how we've reached this point anyway.

[Trolling] Halo has a story? [/Trolling]

Both series have different merits and different failings but we all know that our lovely little wretched hive will never accept that.

Let's be honest: if it did accept that, would it really be our little wretched hive anymore?

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Il Divo wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

 How did this turn into a Halo thread overnight? 

1. Spamming Troll called Halo fans out that "no one plays Halo for the story".

2. Halo enthusiasts countered, claiming Reach's story was fantastic and superior to ME3's.

3. Mass Effect enthusiasts claimed no it's not.

And that's how we've reached this point anyway.

[Trolling] Halo has a story? [/Trolling]

Both series have different merits and different failings but we all know that our lovely little wretched hive will never accept that.

Let's be honest: if it did accept that, would it really be our little wretched hive anymore?

Sadly true.

[Zorziban the Great]

If the demo leak is any indication, yes you will be able to talk. However, you will still need to shoot some guys. This IS the big war they've been hyping for the past 8 or so years.... But I also agree with you about the scenery, music, and general mood of the game. Sometimes its nice to just sit back and talk to people at your own pace. I think that Bioware knows this which is why they said that some places won't be destroyed by the Repears.

Modifié par Zorziban the Great, 12 décembre 2011 - 11:45 .

[Harmless Citizen]

...I'm guessing I'm the only one who found the Halo deaths to be completely lukewarm, then.

[Il Divo]

Random Nobody wrote...

...I'm guessing I'm the only one who found the Halo deaths to be completely lukewarm, then.

Lukewarm in a good sense or a bad sense? 

Modifié par Il Divo, 12 décembre 2011 - 11:49 .

[Extort]

 This is WAR. It's not  about Shepard anymore. This is the part where we kick some SERIOUS ass not some 4 eyed flying bug or lamp headed piece of led but real enemies.




And cmon the thresher maw is an organic that kills anything it sees. It is actually fighting on YOUR side... isn't that of value to you??????????

[Harmless Citizen]

Il Divo wrote...

Random Nobody wrote...

...I'm guessing I'm the only one who found the Halo deaths to be completely lukewarm, then.

Lukewarm in a good sense or a bad sense? 

"Lukewarm" as in "I felt nothing when anyone died."

[Il Divo]

Random Nobody wrote...

"Lukewarm" as in "I felt nothing when anyone died."

Depends on whom you talk to. I'll admit I liked the characters and thought their deaths were kinda emotional. Reach was a fun ride, but the experience is far from what I'd consider "magnificent".

The major problem that Reach runs into is that the plot is centered around these six squad-members fighting the Covenant, which is fine, but the narrative doesn't seem to  do anything particularly meaningful with them. In the end, anyone can write a character, and they can find an infinite number of ways and reasons to kill them off. That itself is not difficult. But Reach's characters, imo,  seem to exist for no other reason than so they can die.

Modifié par Il Divo, 12 décembre 2011 - 12:51 .

[CannonO]

Lay off the Halo talk in here. Go start a Reach thread in off topic. I think Reach is a great shooter with some great emotional tones. Move on to on topic.

[Arkitekt]

CannonLars wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

Does anyone think this is a valid excuse?: 
 "It is hard to encapsulate the story of an RPG into a 1 minute trailer for an awards show or similar. Especially without revealing too many spoilers."

Not only a valid "excuse", but an utterly reasonable strategy.

So I guess I don't need to read the rest of your mental breakdown?

You haven't seen an RPG trailer without spoilers? There are some pretty great stories in the entertainment industry with 1-minute trailers that can showcase the variety and substance without spoiler issues.

Like the first teaser trailer of Mass Effect 3? Oh wait!

Although I "Get" what you are saying, I don't "GET" the importance of what you are saying. It's like someone is having an heart attack over the fact that someone is writing with a blue pen instead of a black pen somewhere in your office. It's a sign of mental problems.

Modifié par Arkitekt, 12 décembre 2011 - 12:55 .

[CannonO]

Arkitekt wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

CannonLars wrote...
Does anyone think this is a valid excuse?:  "It is hard to encapsulate the story of an RPG into a 1 minute trailer for an awards show or similar. Especially without revealing too many spoilers."

Not only a valid "excuse", but an utterly reasonable strategy.
So I guess I don't need to read the rest of your mental breakdown?

You haven't seen an RPG trailer without spoilers? There are some pretty great stories in the entertainment industry with 1-minute trailers that can showcase the variety and substance without spoiler issues.

Like the first teaser trailer of Mass Effect 3? Oh wait!
Although I "Get" what you are saying, I don't "GET" the importance of what you are saying. It's like someone is having an heart attack over the fact that someone is writing with a blue pen instead of a black pen somewhere in your office. It's a sign of mental problems.

Because even the littlest things matter to me in Mass Effect. I love this universe a lot. I credit ME 1 still as the game that has changed me the most. The blue pen is important to me because I took notice of the black pens in ME 1 that were there when I fell in love with the game. So when things even that unimportant change, it isn't so small to me. I have spent so many hours staring at specific vistas in ME 1, and some in ME2. It just got me and my heart so I can't let go when people say to roll with these shifts. I just love even the black pens that much because they are part of a place and time I love more than most. So, yeah, I am the guy who makes a thread about them not using the foghorn sunrise effect at the end of the trailers anymore because it means a lot to me even if it looks like it should mean so little.
"The little things... there's nothing bigger, is there?"

[Bleachrude]

To get this back on to ME...

 re: Squad-mates dying

I actually thought how ME2 handled it was interesting....there were 4 determinants with regard to winning the suicide mission and some were better than others. The actual death scenes could use a little work but then, since the cast was so huge, having to write death scenes for all potential possibilities would not have been feasible..

There was a thread on BSN talking about this and people chiming in with regard to doing the suicide mission the 1st time WITHOUT cheats...it was interesting to read people's thought on the various mechanics...

[Malik84]

You people should try to make yourself some REAL friends in REAL life. You spend way too much time on this boards. It's starting to affect your brain. Jesus

[Ravensword]

CannonLars wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

CannonLars wrote...
Does anyone think this is a valid excuse?:  "It is hard to encapsulate the story of an RPG into a 1 minute trailer for an awards show or similar. Especially without revealing too many spoilers."

Not only a valid "excuse", but an utterly reasonable strategy.
So I guess I don't need to read the rest of your mental breakdown?

You haven't seen an RPG trailer without spoilers? There are some pretty great stories in the entertainment industry with 1-minute trailers that can showcase the variety and substance without spoiler issues.

Like the first teaser trailer of Mass Effect 3? Oh wait!
Although I "Get" what you are saying, I don't "GET" the importance of what you are saying. It's like someone is having an heart attack over the fact that someone is writing with a blue pen instead of a black pen somewhere in your office. It's a sign of mental problems.

Because even the littlest things matter to me in Mass Effect. I love this universe a lot. I credit ME 1 still as the game that has changed me the most. The blue pen is important to me because I took notice of the black pens in ME 1 that were there when I fell in love with the game. So when things even that unimportant change, it isn't so small to me. I have spent so many hours staring at specific vistas in ME 1, and some in ME2. It just got me and my heart so I can't let go when people say to roll with these shifts. I just love even the black pens that much because they are part of a place and time I love more than most. So, yeah, I am the guy who makes a thread about them not using the foghorn sunrise effect at the end of the trailers anymore because it means a lot to me even if it looks like it should mean so little.
"The little things... there's nothing bigger, is there?"

[Phaedon]

CannonLars wrote...
I don't know what footage you mean specifically. If you are only talking about the VGA footage, then surely you noticed I was quoting others who stereotyped VGA viewers.

I surely noticed that your post didn't quote anyone, and was severly out of context. I'd call it a weak combat, but then again I can't think of a better phrase to describe this one.

Several people have now said that the action footage in that trailer was because VGA viewers would rather see that. As I have said, that doesn't explain that theme in the rest of the marketing.

As you have been shown for 7 consecutive pages, that argument never worked. The lack of RPG theme of marketing? Well, you are bloody kidding yourself. Every combat video showcases some powers, we know every single skill that is currently in-game with PLENTY of information, most of the E3 live stream was about weapon customization and statistical progression, devs talk about RPG elements in 50% of their tweets, and nearly every single interview refers to, well, guess what, RPG elements.

Other than that, there have been two multi-minute trailers setting a tone for the story. That's a lot more than we ever got from ME1's marketing. Other than, oh wait, the sequence with the bartender and the asari which spoiled the entire game.

I play shooters. I own more shooters than RPGs. Mass Effect happens to be both. We used to see both showcased well in the marketing. Now it is clearly been more focused on its shooter and action elements.

Yeah, clear. 7 pages of arguments clear.

You haven't paid attention to what I have said based on your statements that I have been promoting stereotypes, saying that RPG fans or Mass Effect shouldn't include or bring joy through action and shooting in addition to story, implying that I don't understand many people enjoy games, or that I do not like the parts of Mass Effect 3 I am seeing.
This thread is about the fact that I have a problem with the style of game the Mass Effect 3 marketing makes it out to be.

Yes, let's look for that divine post of yours:

Do we want people that are shooter-interested only, or that are what you guys call "VGA viewers" to be the focus? Or should we, who were watching, staying loyal, and interested in all that Mass Effect has and will offer, be included here? I don't think saying that there was a VGA specific trailer explains how the entire marketing series has ended up this way. I think perhaps an attempt to pass this off as a shooter to a market that they are eager to grab, with a franchise that was far from being all about all of what has been shown, has left the fans and the already interested players in the dust specifically with Mass Effect 3 (literally, as in, there are now explosions spreading dust left and right in these trailers).

You are going to instantly backtrack like hell and say that you were actually referring to "action" not "shooter" once I post this, but I still want to see your reaction.

Fyi, there has been no purely shooter-oriented footage and you know it. Every single class video, even the soldier have been using powers. So, when you come here complaining about the VGA trailer and how it was used to cater to shooter fans when not a single shot was fired in it, there isn't much room left for interpretation.

I play games and enjoy them. I do not believe that saying a trailer is for VGA viewers is an excuse (as many of us are VGA viewers and not just shooter fans, but you seemed to have misunderstood that). I play shooters and RPGs. I have played and enjoyed Mass Effect since the very beginning. I have enjoyed the marketing for the previous two games. I do not feel that I am included any longer in the marketing demographic that we are seeing for ME3.

No, there is no misunderstanding here. You are just making the problem more obvious by eveyr post you make.

"Do we want people that are shooter-interested only"

You are just proving my point further, as I said. Apparently, the new trailer, which had nothing to do with shooter elements, was just used to cater to the shooter fanbase.

And as I said, you still think that shooter fans are typical frat boys, whereas RPG fans are basement kiddies with some kind of genetic defect that has completely blocked the production of adrenaline in their bodies.

Apparently, action=shooter.

This is about what they are making ME3 out to be through its ad campaign. You'll have to explain the mask comment because as far as I can tell, you just haven't caught my points and the comments that have prompted my responses. I did not come up with the VGA viewer idea. I believe we should have a trailer with far greater representation of what we know to be Mass Effect and this single trailer being at the VGAs does not explain the nature of the rest.

Oh, so?

Dev Promises - Story: https://docs.google....s/edit?hl=en_US

Dev Promises - Gameplay: https://docs.google....s/edit?hl=en_US

It's especially funny because the grand majority of the dev promises concerning gameplay are about RPG elements.