234 réponses à ce sujet

[FoxShadowblade]

Ravensword wrote...

....Pretty much...this.

[CannonO]

Phaedon wrote...

CannonLars wrote...
I don't know what footage you mean specifically. If you are only talking about the VGA footage, then surely you noticed I was quoting others who stereotyped VGA viewers.

I surely noticed that your post didn't quote anyone, and was severly out of context. I'd call it a weak combat, but then again I can't think of a better phrase to describe this one.

Several people have now said that the action footage in that trailer was because VGA viewers would rather see that. As I have said, that doesn't explain that theme in the rest of the marketing.

As you have been shown for 7 consecutive pages, that argument never worked. The lack of RPG theme of marketing? Well, you are bloody kidding yourself. Every combat video showcases some powers, we know every single skill that is currently in-game with PLENTY of information, most of the E3 live stream was about weapon customization and statistical progression, devs talk about RPG elements in 50% of their tweets, and nearly every single interview refers to, well, guess what, RPG elements.

Other than that, there have been two multi-minute trailers setting a tone for the story. That's a lot more than we ever got from ME1's marketing. Other than, oh wait, the sequence with the bartender and the asari which spoiled the entire game.

I play shooters. I own more shooters than RPGs. Mass Effect happens to be both. We used to see both showcased well in the marketing. Now it is clearly been more focused on its shooter and action elements.

Yeah, clear. 7 pages of arguments clear.

You haven't paid attention to what I have said based on your statements that I have been promoting stereotypes, saying that RPG fans or Mass Effect shouldn't include or bring joy through action and shooting in addition to story, implying that I don't understand many people enjoy games, or that I do not like the parts of Mass Effect 3 I am seeing.
This thread is about the fact that I have a problem with the style of game the Mass Effect 3 marketing makes it out to be.

Yes, let's look for that divine post of yours:

Do we want people that are shooter-interested only, or that are what you guys call "VGA viewers" to be the focus? Or should we, who were watching, staying loyal, and interested in all that Mass Effect has and will offer, be included here? I don't think saying that there was a VGA specific trailer explains how the entire marketing series has ended up this way. I think perhaps an attempt to pass this off as a shooter to a market that they are eager to grab, with a franchise that was far from being all about all of what has been shown, has left the fans and the already interested players in the dust specifically with Mass Effect 3 (literally, as in, there are now explosions spreading dust left and right in these trailers).

You are going to instantly backtrack like hell and say that you were actually referring to "action" not "shooter" once I post this, but I still want to see your reaction.

Fyi, there has been no purely shooter-oriented footage and you know it. Every single class video, even the soldier have been using powers. So, when you come here complaining about the VGA trailer and how it was used to cater to shooter fans when not a single shot was fired in it, there isn't much room left for interpretation.

I play games and enjoy them. I do not believe that saying a trailer is for VGA viewers is an excuse (as many of us are VGA viewers and not just shooter fans, but you seemed to have misunderstood that). I play shooters and RPGs. I have played and enjoyed Mass Effect since the very beginning. I have enjoyed the marketing for the previous two games. I do not feel that I am included any longer in the marketing demographic that we are seeing for ME3.

No, there is no misunderstanding here. You are just making the problem more obvious by eveyr post you make.

"Do we want people that are shooter-interested only"

You are just proving my point further, as I said. Apparently, the new trailer, which had nothing to do with shooter elements, was just used to cater to the shooter fanbase.

And as I said, you still think that shooter fans are typical frat boys, whereas RPG fans are basement kiddies with some kind of genetic defect that has completely blocked the production of adrenaline in their bodies.

Apparently, action=shooter.

This is about what they are making ME3 out to be through its ad campaign. You'll have to explain the mask comment because as far as I can tell, you just haven't caught my points and the comments that have prompted my responses. I did not come up with the VGA viewer idea. I believe we should have a trailer with far greater representation of what we know to be Mass Effect and this single trailer being at the VGAs does not explain the nature of the rest.

Oh, so?

Dev Promises - Story: https://docs.google....s/edit?hl=en_US

Dev Promises - Gameplay: https://docs.google....s/edit?hl=en_US

It's especially funny because the grand majority of the dev promises concerning gameplay are about RPG elements.

Skills? Powers? Not what I asked for. I don't need more combat gameplay showing off skills and powers and shootouts. I need to see the trailers that build on many more elements that ME contains. Dev promises don't quite work like watching a trailer, now do they? If we could show those documents on TV and get the effect, then I would have been satisfied long ago.

The action scenes come from the shooting portions of the game, regardless of if shots were fired. Don't think I am being so strict that the word shooter refers to the precise moments shots are fired. ME has a third person shooter combat style. That is what I am referring to when I say shooter. I am not complaining about skills and stats and powers. I don't even want to see a HUD or other game-only elements of that nature in a theatrical quality trailer. Rockstar trailers, or even some older BioWare trailers, are a good example of trailers that don't use combat footage or scripted action sequences as the climax of the trailers or demo cuts. They show cinematics, dialogues, navigation, locations, and the nature of the action, without focusing heavily on one element that is hardly the main appeal of a game as rich as ME.

I don't doubt the presence of RPG elements in the game. I did not ask to see those mechanics in the trailers. That could be just as poor by simply cutting in game sequences rather than encompassing the scope and points that ME3 will reach. RPG skill bars and power lists would be just as ugly on a high quality trailer. But the story, characters, and locations that great trailers seem to convey so well, have not been conveyed by ME3 footage.

Modifié par CannonLars, 12 décembre 2011 - 11:13 .

[Sherbet Lemon]

FallTooDovahkiin wrote...

This is a glorious macro.  Thank you for this.  Needed some cheering up as it's been a rough day. Lol!

Modifié par Village Idiot, 13 décembre 2011 - 12:00 .

[Malik84]

People should realise that they are keeping this kind of silly threads on life support simply by trying to convince the Op that he is wrong(which he obviously is). Just leave him in the prison he has built for himself;

[The Spamming Troll]

didnt the devs promise no MP too.

but then we heard theyve been planning MP ever since ME1.

i couldnt care less what the devs did or didnt promise.

[Ravensword]

FallTooDovahkiin wrote...

You win the Internet.

[CannonO]

Malik84 wrote...

People should realise that they are keeping this kind of silly threads on life support simply by trying to convince the Op that he is wrong(which he obviously is). Just leave him in the prison he has built for himself;

Why am I wrong? This is my opinion from my perspective on what I've seen. I feel strongly about it and will gladly argue for others to see it, but you can disagree without being necessarily wrong. Of course, maybe I will feel you are wrong depending on what the statement is. How do you feel about ME3 marketing versus what ME3 actually contains and also in comparison to quality trailers or other ME trailers?

Modifié par CannonLars, 13 décembre 2011 - 01:31 .

[Gatt9]

CannonLars wrote...

Malik84 wrote...

People should realise that they are keeping this kind of silly threads on life support simply by trying to convince the Op that he is wrong(which he obviously is). Just leave him in the prison he has built for himself;

Why am I wrong? This is my opinion from my perspective on what I've seen. I feel strongly about it and will gladly argue for others to see it, but you can disagree without being necessarily wrong. Of course, maybe I will feel you are wrong depending on what the statement is. How do you feel about ME3 marketing versus what ME3 actually contains and also in comparison to quality trailers or other ME trailers?

You're not wrong.

Not only was gaming perfectly able to show RPG elements for a decade or more in previews,  but people seem to keep forgeting that it's the exact same thing as a movie trailer,  many of which aren't action oriented.

It's an amazing phenomenae in gaming,  people will suddenly scream something is true when they wouldn't claim it in other forms of entertainment.  I've theories on why this is...

[DeathDragon185]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Who misses when Mass Effect looked like the next great sci fi film epic in stunning vista cities, soft synth music that embodied the futuristic universe, moody conversations in neon-lit hubs, and scenes of an open and uncharted galaxy to explore in the purple and blue lens flare of promise?

Sorry, but that dream is gone.

No more sparkle, no more big, wide galaxy for you to explore. No more promise. Because that galaxy you love is getting its ass kicked.

The Citadel? Probably a refugee camp. Ilium? A crater. Your galaxy map? Smeared with the red indicators of advancing enemy forces, lightly speckled with the little green dots that represent the few strongholds you have left. Your bubbly, moody synths have been drowned out by the sound of gunfire and the agonizing screams of prisoners of war as the Reapers twist them into mindless, hideous monsters to do their bidding.

That's why ME3 is gonna be powerful. That's your galaxy they're attacking.

Now go save what's left of it, kid.

+10000000000000000

Modifié par DeathDragon185, 13 décembre 2011 - 02:32 .

[Ravensword]

FallTooDovahkiin wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

FallTooDovahkiin wrote...

You win the Internet.

Thank you my good man. Thank you. *Bows*

You're very welcome, my good man.

*sips tea*

[DeathDragon185]

Look it's better to be safe than sorry. Bioware just want to avoid anything story related in their trailers. also quality of trailers=/= quality of games

[CannonO]

DeathDragon185 wrote...

Look it's better to be safe than sorry. Bioware just want to avoid anything story related in their trailers. also quality of trailers=/= quality of games

Thing is, it used to seem so natural for some quality trailers to come from the highest quality games. Seems my excitement pre-release is no longer in BioWare's marketing interest. ME3 trailers quality and style =/= the quality of the scifi interactive-film epic game that ME3 is.

These trailers aren't god awful. They are, however, appealing through the shallower (not that they aren't an enjoyable part that should have some of the time in trailers, or that they are wholly deserving to be called shallow, but that they are not what I would call deep compared to what else emotionally and through exploring, I delve into ME for),  elements of the ME3 universe, being scripted action and shooter sequences. I am not a teenager solely interested in a "Michael Bay Effect" as some have called the trailers. I am interested in the universe I got in ME 1 and 2 during a period of war. I want to see it, not see excuses saying it must be avoided for the sake of spoilers. The percentage of time spent on combat showing is not what I expect to be proportional to its percentage of ME 3 playtime.

Modifié par CannonLars, 13 décembre 2011 - 04:51 .

[spirosz]

Honestly, most trailers now and days (especially in Western culture) for any type of media (games, movies, music) are usually leaning towards the Let's show the biggest, most epic scenes type of feel. I've seen some trailers recently that seem like they show the whole movie and just under a minute (obviously they don't, but that's my perspective). Most of these trailers are for new-comers which isn't bad, but the latest trends are all about "the bigger, the better". I understand where you're coming from, but let me ask you this, are you buying the game? If yes, is it because of the trailers being shown now or because of the last two games? Wouldn't playing the last two games have a bigger impact on your decision to continue the series, let alone purchase the last game, than a few trailers being shown?

At least that's the way my mindset is, they already sold me from playing the last two games. I personally don't need any trailer or new information to influence my purchase, I understand that I'm not like everyone and they still have to show us, the fanbase stuff we want to see, but us fans are always going to want to see something different and the company usually goes after what the general consensus wants.

Modifié par spiros9110, 13 décembre 2011 - 05:05 .

[CannonO]

spiros9110 wrote...

Honestly, most trailers now and days (especially in Western culture) for any type of media (games, movies, music) are usually leaning towards the Let's show the biggest, most epic scenes type of feel. I've seen some trailers recently that seem like they show the whole movie and just under a minute (obviously they don't, but that's my perspective). Most of these trailers are for new-comers which isn't bad, but the latest trends are all about "the bigger, the better". I understand where you're coming from, but let me ask you this, are you buying the game? If yes, is it because of the trailers being shown now or because of the last two games? Wouldn't playing the last two games have a bigger impact on your decision to continue the series, let alone purchase the last game, than a few trailers being shown?

At least that's the way my mindset is, they already sold me from playing the last two games. I personally don't need any trailer or new information to influence my purchase, I understand that I'm not like everyone and they still have to show us, the fanbase stuff we want to see, but us fans are always going to want to see something different and the company usually goes after what the general consensus wants.

I'm buying it based on the previous two and based on fact sheets of features confirmed or in limbo (things they won't confirm or deny) for ME3.

Part of my problem is that the fact that it is no longer marketed like the same franchise with the same focuses, it feels like they think they are entitled to my purchase and no longer need to include me in the pre-release marketing and excitement. I want more than what they show. Mass Effect has more than what they show. I used to get to see more than what we get out of ME 3 footage. So where is that stuff that I loved seeing, which made me buy ME1 and helped me buy ME2?

Draw in the shooter market if you must, but draw in the fans of your other elements and of all the great story and features that Mass Effect offers, too.

[Mecha Tengu]

I agree with op

the advertising campaign for this game has degraded into a mindless ACTION BUTTON softcore shooter for the mentally impaired and those with 0 spatial awareness and cognitive abilities

[spirosz]

CannonLars wrote...

I'm buying it based on the previous two and based on fact sheets of features confirmed or in limbo (things they won't confirm or deny) for ME3.

Part of my problem is that the fact that it is no longer marketed like the same franchise with the same focuses, it feels like they think they are entitled to my purchase and no longer need to include me in the pre-release marketing and excitement. I want more than what they show. Mass Effect has more than what they show. I used to get to see more than what we get out of ME 3 footage. So where is that stuff that I loved seeing, which made me buy ME1 and helped me buy ME2?

Draw in the shooter market if you must, but draw in the fans of your other elements and of all the great story and features that Mass Effect offers, too.

I understand and I agree, but again a lot of things come down to making money. I don't like it, but that's the way it works. If they can get those few extra sales with these specific trailers, then they won't stop doing it, especially if they're gaining more fans than losing.

One thing to consider as well, is the theme of the trailers relating to the theme of the games itself. Think of the first game - expansive universe (new to us), Shepard's new to it as well, just learning about the Reapers, etc. The second game - more focus on the characters; relating to showing "character trailers", the dirty dozen, more personal, different side of the universe. Now, the third game - Galactic War, pretty self-explanatory, they're going to show themes that tie in with War/Loss/Hope/how big the threat really is, etc.

[jbg927]

I hope bioware doesn't read all of these complaints about the trailers and make a trailer full of spoilers. The marketing has been sort of lackluster for the past couple of months but I am happy to say I have not seen very many spoilers. The same could not have been said for me2

[CannonO]

spiros9110 wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

I'm buying it based on the previous two and based on fact sheets of features confirmed or in limbo (things they won't confirm or deny) for ME3.

Part of my problem is that the fact that it is no longer marketed like the same franchise with the same focuses, it feels like they think they are entitled to my purchase and no longer need to include me in the pre-release marketing and excitement. I want more than what they show. Mass Effect has more than what they show. I used to get to see more than what we get out of ME 3 footage. So where is that stuff that I loved seeing, which made me buy ME1 and helped me buy ME2?

Draw in the shooter market if you must, but draw in the fans of your other elements and of all the great story and features that Mass Effect offers, too.

I understand and I agree, but again a lot of things come down to making money. I don't like it, but that's the way it works. If they can get those few extra sales with these specific trailers, then they won't stop doing it, especially if they're gaining more fans than losing.

One thing to consider as well, is the theme of the trailers relating to the theme of the games itself. Think of the first game - expansive universe (new to us), Shepard's new to it as well, just learning about the Reapers, etc. The second game - more focus on the characters; relating to showing "character trailers", the dirty dozen, more personal, different side of the universe. Now, the third game - Galactic War, pretty self-explanatory, they're going to show themes that tie in with War/Loss/Hope/how big the threat really is, etc.

I know, I know.

Just wish ME 1 and ME 3 marketing weren't such a contrast in theme. The games both share a lot of features and like ME1, ME3 still features a lot of things in the universe that are new to Shepard. The themes from ME1 and ME2 are key to Mass Effect, and thus, in my opinion need to be featured as well for the third game. They showed things that earned it my love before, but this time they don't have much of those deep and captivating moods that they willingly show. Seriously, that foghorn sunrise thing at the end of ME1 and ME2 was so much deeper and so full of mystery. It seems so small, but after seeing the outro where the logo burns up like a badass devil and then Shepard with his impractically lethal Omni-tool steps forward. I feel like he is just a soldier making a beat-yo-ass face. No mysterious cues. This stuff matters to me. I want my vibes that got me excited in the previous pre-release windows to make a comeback while they also display the war story. Saving Private Ryan was entirely war-based, but dang were they able to make some emotional trailers and lines come in to play.

Modifié par CannonLars, 13 décembre 2011 - 05:31 .

[spirosz]

CannonLars wrote...

I know, I know.

Just wish ME 1 and ME 3 marketing weren't such a contrast in theme. The games both share a lot of features and like ME1, ME3 still features a lot of things in the universe that are new to Shepard. The themes from ME1 and ME2 are key to Mass Effect, and thus, in my opinion need to be featured as well for the third game. They showed things that earned it my love before, but this time they don't have much of those deep and captivating moods that they willingly show. Seriously, that foghorn sunrise thing at the end of ME1 and ME2 was so much deeper and so full of mystery. It seems so small, but after seeing the outro where the logo burns up like a badass devil and then Shepard with his impractically lethal Omni-tool steps forward. I feel like he is just a soldier making a beat-yo-ass face. No mysterious cues. This stuff matters to me. I want my vibes that got me excited in the previous pre-release windows to make a comeback while they also display the war story. Saving Private Ryan was entirely war-based, but dang were they able to make some emotional trailers and lines come in to play.

Yeah I can't stand that lame omni-blade Shepard thing they got going and since I find myself to be pretty sensitive towards sound and music in general, I 100% agree with the foghorn sunrise.  It had such a mix of deep, menacing, unknowing, mysterious vibe that still gets me today.   We can only wait and see though, hopefully the game blows my mind, haha.   

[Ghost-621]

Mass Effect for who? Not for the original Mass Effect fans.

Allow me to provide evidence in the simple terms of marketing. Whether you want to believe it or not, this does, infact, reflect the focus of the game itself.

Mass Effect 1 Commercial "Many Decisions Lie Ahead.."
- From the get-go, I am given the impression that the element of choice and consequence plays a prominent role here.

Mass Effect 1 Trailer "One Decision Away" /Launch Trailer
- Again, what do we see here? A strong emphasis on choice and consequence. This trailer is also a very healthy blend of what action the game has to offer, along with several, spoiler-free story elements that grip the viewer emotionally, and make them curious. (To those of you saying "herpy ash dies spoiler?!" I wouldn't call that a spoiler, more of a demonstration of the "WHAT WILL YOU SACRIFICE?" as it states. It drives the point home.)
- With this trailer, we are also shown multiple worlds, dialogue pieces, and situations that add to the level of scale.

The focus of Mass Effect 1's marketing is on the story, and I say again, choice and consequence. The focus on action here is minimal. The sense of scale drives it home and procures interest. The forcus is not Earth-centric, but all of civilization.

Now, let's take a look at the marketing for Mass Effect 3.

Mass Effect 3 "Fall of Earth" Trailer
- We are shown various scenes of...action..action..and more action. To add insult to injury, cheesy rock music is thrown in, then.. the infamous "We Fight or We Die! That's the plan!"  What happened to my choices and consequences for those choices? Also, the focus is now Earth-centric, instead of civilization or galactic. "The War for Earth has begun.."

Mass Effect 3 "Squad Leader" Trailer
- Here, we are given...more combat. Great. Nothing on the story. Just more combat action. Again, "The War for Earth has Begun," but now with "Lead your Squad into Battle." There is a complete absence of choice and consequence here as well.

Mass Effect 3 "VGA Awards" Trailer
- Aaaagain. Focus is solely on combat. Action. Combat. Though this is the first official trailer we've been given that isn't Earth-centric, that is what the peeps at VGA say the game is about. "Saving the Earth from Reapers." We have seen nothing about story, or what Mass Effect was originally sold and displayed to be about. Choice and Consequence. 

The focus of the Mass Effect 3's marketing is on the action, shooter combat, and more action. Not once have we been shown anything that suggests that our decisions matter, which is what the game was originally about, not shooter gameplay.

I don't care how many times or different ways you try to twist words and your own reasoning around, this is going off of solid evidence. Straight from the makers themselves.

Mass Effect is not what it used to be, a story-driven game with a focus on the story, and again, choices and consequences.

Modifié par Ghost-621, 13 décembre 2011 - 06:01 .

[Il Divo]

Ghost-621 wrote...

I don't care how many times or different ways you try to twist words and your own reasoning around, this is going off of solid evidence. Straight from the makers themselves.

Mass Effect is not what it used to be, a story-driven game with a focus on the story, and again, choices and consequences.

So what you're saying is advertising is immediately synonymous with a game's total content? Very sound reasoning there.

[Fixers0]

Il Divo wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

I don't care how many times or different ways you try to twist words and your own reasoning around, this is going off of solid evidence. Straight from the makers themselves.

Mass Effect is not what it used to be, a story-driven game with a focus on the story, and again, choices and consequences.[/b][b]

So what you're saying is advertising is immediately synonymous with a game's total content? Very sound reasoning there.

It's does give you some insight in the priorities of the developers, though.

[Ghost-621]

Il Divo wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

I don't care how many times or different ways you try to twist words and your own reasoning around, this is going off of solid evidence. Straight from the makers themselves.

Mass Effect is not what it used to be, a story-driven game with a focus on the story, and again, choices and consequences.

So what you're saying is advertising is immediately synonymous with a game's total content? Very sound reasoning there.

You know what, yes, I am. Take a good, hard look at it. What we've seen in each game's advertisements, and what we've been given.  
If you're going to refute my argument, grow a pair and do it. Any idiot can simply dismiss and label.