303 réponses à ce sujet

[Candidate 88766]

Alex Arterius wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Alex Arterius wrote...
This is just my view on direction of ME3's combat vs RPG marketing

Just remember that ME3's marketing has barely started.

There have been two actual trailers - one was CGI, and one was made up of E3 footage, footage which was geared towards combat due to the nature of E3.

Otherwise we've had 4 demos - Earth, Sur'Kesh, Tuchunka and that very brief demo of Shepard shooting the Reaper with a turret. Two of those demos featured RPG stuff, and the Sur'Kesh demo featured it heavily.

Apart from that, we've had a couple of Pulse episodes on the underlying mechanics of the game. The RPG features are just that, features - without them, the game would still work. The combat mechanics are the underlying things that make it work as a game, and at the moment the Pulse episodes are showing improvements to those underlying mechanics. Over time, they'll no doubt start to cover the features of the game as well, such as the RPg stuff.

There really hasn't been much marketing. Its not like we've had a ton of combat trailers and no RPG stuff - there's been very little all round.

Yeah I guess! But for a game that was announced a year ago, I sitll feel very much in the dark about it and that the stuff I do actually know is very geared towards one particular audience (i don't really classify myself as either a die hard RPG fan or die hard Shooter, I like a good mix of both) but so far it all seems a little unbalanced to me, the game is under 3 months from release now afterall!

I kinda feel the same, but on the other hand its nice for a game to have an air of mystery about it. Its a Bioware game and a ME sequel - I pretty much know what I'm getting. How expansive the RPg features will be or how improved the combat will be are things I'm unsure of, but I'm here for the story and characters, and i'd rather they keep those under wraps until release. I think they nailed story in ME1 and characters in ME2, so I believe they can do both for ME3.

Besides, they don't need to advertise to us that much because, having invested time and money into the previous acts, the vast majority of us will be buy ME3 to see how it ends. They need to bring in new people, and if those people didn't buy ME1 or ME2 then Bioware needs to focus their marketing a little differently, hence the emphasis on combat in the little marketing there has so far been.

[The Spamming Troll]

Arkitekt wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...
nobody follows the  devs tweets, or chekcs the stickied threads, excpet people already in the know. the trailer was for people outside of this forum. and it did nothing to make them want to play ME3.

atleast thats what i feel about it.

Indeed. The marketing so far depleted the fanbase's anticipation so much that ME3 ended up winning the Most Anticipated Game of 2012 award by popular vote.

over bioshock and halo 4??? im suprised.

i guess bioware should stop marketing for the new crowd, and focus on getting back the ones theyve already lost.

Why should they market to people that have already made up their minds about ME3? Marketing is for those people who haven't decided, and seeing as it won Most Anticipated Game they're clearly doing something right.

That it beat Halo 4 is surprising to me too though. A few years ago a new Halo game would've won hands down.

There is a small minority of loud pain in the arses while the big majority of common sense people are actually eager to play the game. Such small minorities are always some frustrated confused people who somehow think a game should be the second coming of christ.

i said they should market to the people they LOST, not the people whove preordered the CE, or anyone whose in the "most anticipated game for 2012" camp. maybe something like adding one overheat weapon, perhaps. i bet thatd get more people into ME3, then that CGA trailer did.

atleast me and bluko, and the rest of the 'pain in ther arses' would be happy.

i actually expected ME2 to be the second comming of christ. how could you not, ME1 is a stellar game. ofcorse untill i played ME2 and found out it was a different game then what i saw advertised on the cover.

[Dreadwing 67]

And this is where I call it quits for BSN

[Candidate 88766]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

maybe something like adding one overheat weapon, perhaps. i bet thatd get more people into ME3, then that CGA trailer did.

'Dude, have you heard about ME3? You get to see a giant robot fight a giant worm!'

'Dude, have you heard about ME3? It has a gun that overheats!'


I may not be into marketing, but I'm pretty sure the first one is going to attract more people.

And also, an overheating gun would be enough to change your mind? Not the characters or the story or the choices/consequences, but whether the guns overheat or use ammo? Surely in the grand scheme of things that is an incredibly minor thing.

[Il Divo]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

maybe something like adding one overheat weapon, perhaps. i bet thatd get more people into ME3, then that CGA trailer did.

'Dude, have you heard about ME3? You get to see a giant robot fight a giant worm!'

'Dude, have you heard about ME3? It has a gun that overheats!'


I may not be into marketing, but I'm pretty sure the first one is going to attract more people.

And also, an overheating gun would be enough to change your mind? Not the characters or the story or the choices/consequences, but whether the guns overheat or use ammo? Surely in the grand scheme of things that is an incredibly minor thing.

Pretty much this. And then we have to factor in all the players who will now be dissatisifed with overheating mechanics.

[CannonO]

MadJordan wrote...

People need to understand that the point of trailers aren't meant to show of a games feature's they're made to get peoples attention. Guns, explosions and having two massive things fighting each other is going to get a hell of allot more attention than showing the RPG elements of the game.

That's how marketing works, deal with it.

Err, you know that a lot of great trailers show the story and lots of dialogue? Like, have you ever seen a movie trailer? Maybe for one of those Best Picture nominees? Their trailers show more than just guns, explosions, and things fighting to get attention, because they have substance. I am upset with the marketing because Mass Effect has substance, but the marketing's lack of variety shows otherwise.

[Candidate 88766]

CannonLars wrote...

MadJordan wrote...

People need to understand that the point of trailers aren't meant to show of a games feature's they're made to get peoples attention. Guns, explosions and having two massive things fighting each other is going to get a hell of allot more attention than showing the RPG elements of the game.

That's how marketing works, deal with it.

Err, you know that a lot of great trailers show the story and lots of dialogue? Like, have you ever seen a movie trailer? Maybe for one of those Best Picture nominees? Their trailers show more than just guns, explosions, and things fighting to get attention, because they have substance. I am upset with the marketing because Mass Effect has substance, but the marketing's lack of variety shows otherwise.

Movies are entirely different to games. 

Games are interactive and by their very nature have to have some kind of challenge. In ME's case this comes from combat, and they have to advertise that so people know that it is up to scratch. Its all well and good if it has great customization, but if the combat is no good then it won't function well as a game.

A movie on the other hand can feature almost no action at all and still be fantastic - Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy was one of the best films I've seen in past years, and it was virtually all dialogue. Games can't get away with that.

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 12 décembre 2011 - 12:10 .

[Arkitekt]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

i said they should market to the people they LOST, not the people whove preordered the CE, or anyone whose in the "most anticipated game for 2012" camp. maybe something like adding one overheat weapon, perhaps. i bet thatd get more people into ME3, then that CGA trailer did.

atleast me and bluko, and the rest of the 'pain in ther arses' would be happy.

Are you saying that Bioware should market their game to those people they "LOST", aka both of you?

Excuse me while I die of laughter.

i actually expected ME2 to be the second comming of christ. how could you not, ME1 is a stellar game. ofcorse untill i played ME2 and found out it was a different game then what i saw advertised on the cover.

There you go. You lost your sense of reality and are blaming Bioware for it. Get your meds.

[CannonO]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

MadJordan wrote...

People need to understand that the point of trailers aren't meant to show of a games feature's they're made to get peoples attention. Guns, explosions and having two massive things fighting each other is going to get a hell of allot more attention than showing the RPG elements of the game.

That's how marketing works, deal with it.

Err, you know that a lot of great trailers show the story and lots of dialogue? Like, have you ever seen a movie trailer? Maybe for one of those Best Picture nominees? Their trailers show more than just guns, explosions, and things fighting to get attention, because they have substance. I am upset with the marketing because Mass Effect has substance, but the marketing's lack of variety shows otherwise.

Movies are entirely different to games. 

Games are interactive and by their very nature have to have some kind of challenge. In ME's case this comes from combat, and they have to advertise that so people know that it is up to scratch. Its all well and good if it has great customization, but if the combat is no good then it won't function well as a game.

A movie on the other hand can feature almost no action at all and still be fantastic - Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy was one of the best films I've seen in past years, and it was virtually all dialogue. Games can't get away with that.

Trailers aren't interactive. There have been both games and films with action that have far greater substance showcased in their trailers. There are many great stories in film and games that have action, but the great ones don't stick to that for attention. Return of the King was a war film, but the trailers have a ton of dialogue and story in them. Mass Effect does not have an excuse here. It has substance, so don't stick to showing Reaper shootouts in the public footage.

They haven't lost me, but they sure aren't trying to gain more of consumers like me that they caught with the marketing on the first two games.

Modifié par CannonLars, 12 décembre 2011 - 12:14 .

[Candidate 88766]

CannonLars wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

MadJordan wrote...

People need to understand that the point of trailers aren't meant to show of a games feature's they're made to get peoples attention. Guns, explosions and having two massive things fighting each other is going to get a hell of allot more attention than showing the RPG elements of the game.

That's how marketing works, deal with it.

Err, you know that a lot of great trailers show the story and lots of dialogue? Like, have you ever seen a movie trailer? Maybe for one of those Best Picture nominees? Their trailers show more than just guns, explosions, and things fighting to get attention, because they have substance. I am upset with the marketing because Mass Effect has substance, but the marketing's lack of variety shows otherwise.

Movies are entirely different to games. 

Games are interactive and by their very nature have to have some kind of challenge. In ME's case this comes from combat, and they have to advertise that so people know that it is up to scratch. Its all well and good if it has great customization, but if the combat is no good then it won't function well as a game.

A movie on the other hand can feature almost no action at all and still be fantastic - Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy was one of the best films I've seen in past years, and it was virtually all dialogue. Games can't get away with that.

Trailers aren't interactive. There have been both games and films with action that have far greater substance showcased in their trailers. There are many great stories in film and games that have action, but the great ones don't stick to that for attention. Return of the King was a war film, but the trailers have a ton of dialogue and story in them. Mass Effect does not have an excuse here. It has substance, so don't stick to showing Reaper shootouts in the public footage.

Indeed, but there is a time and a place for that kind of trailer and the VGAs are not suitable for it.

Also, ME3's marketing has barely begun. We've had two actual trailers, one of which was CGI and one of which was based on three of the four demos we've been shown, two of which (Tuhcunka and the turret sequence) were only a couple of minutes long. If there had been a massive marketing blitz for ME3 only about combat then I'd agree with you, but there has been very little. When the proper marketing begins, if we don't start seeing more emotional trailers I'll start agreeing but until then I see very little to complain about. We've had four demos, one of which heavily features RPG mechanics (Sur'Kesh) and one of which shows off the more emotional side of the game (Earth), and two trailers. Have some patience 

[CannonO]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

MadJordan wrote...

People need to understand that the point of trailers aren't meant to show of a games feature's they're made to get peoples attention. Guns, explosions and having two massive things fighting each other is going to get a hell of allot more attention than showing the RPG elements of the game.

That's how marketing works, deal with it.

Err, you know that a lot of great trailers show the story and lots of dialogue? Like, have you ever seen a movie trailer? Maybe for one of those Best Picture nominees? Their trailers show more than just guns, explosions, and things fighting to get attention, because they have substance. I am upset with the marketing because Mass Effect has substance, but the marketing's lack of variety shows otherwise.

Movies are entirely different to games. 

Games are interactive and by their very nature have to have some kind of challenge. In ME's case this comes from combat, and they have to advertise that so people know that it is up to scratch. Its all well and good if it has great customization, but if the combat is no good then it won't function well as a game.

A movie on the other hand can feature almost no action at all and still be fantastic - Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy was one of the best films I've seen in past years, and it was virtually all dialogue. Games can't get away with that.

Trailers aren't interactive. There have been both games and films with action that have far greater substance showcased in their trailers. There are many great stories in film and games that have action, but the great ones don't stick to that for attention. Return of the King was a war film, but the trailers have a ton of dialogue and story in them. Mass Effect does not have an excuse here. It has substance, so don't stick to showing Reaper shootouts in the public footage.

Indeed, but there is a time and a place for that kind of trailer and the VGAs are not suitable for it.

Also, ME3's marketing has barely begun. We've had two actual trailers, one of which was CGI and one of which was based on three of the four demos we've been shown, two of which (Tuhcunka and the turret sequence) were only a couple of minutes long. If there had been a massive marketing blitz for ME3 only about combat then I'd agree with you, but there has been very little. When the proper marketing begins, if we don't start seeing more emotional trailers I'll start agreeing but until then I see very little to complain about. We've had four demos, one of which heavily features RPG mechanics (Sur'Kesh) and one of which shows off the more emotional side of the game (Earth), and two trailers. Have some patience 

It hasn't barely begun. We had a lot more in the first few trailers for the previous two games than we are getting out of the ME3 action scenes they choose to use. The VGAs are not the only place they have marketed it this way.

[Arkitekt]

CannonLars wrote...

MadJordan wrote...

People need to understand that the point of trailers aren't meant to show of a games feature's they're made to get peoples attention. Guns, explosions and having two massive things fighting each other is going to get a hell of allot more attention than showing the RPG elements of the game.

That's how marketing works, deal with it.

Err, you know that a lot of great trailers show the story and lots of dialogue? Like, have you ever seen a movie trailer? Maybe for one of those Best Picture nominees? Their trailers show more than just guns, explosions, and things fighting to get attention, because they have substance. I am upset with the marketing because Mass Effect has substance, but the marketing's lack of variety shows otherwise.

I get this. I'd also like to see a teaser trailer of ME as if it was a thriller action movie. But that is one thing, to "like to have seen", quite another is to start a campaign on how bad Bioware is "turning" Mass Effect into. Specially if we are speaking on the context of "Spike VGA", which is as corny and cheesy as it can be.

[Arkitekt]

CannonLars wrote...


It hasn't barely begun. We had a lot more in the first few trailers for the previous two games than we are getting out of the ME3 action scenes they choose to use. The VGAs are not the only place they have marketed it this way.

ME2 marketing was accused of being terribly spoilerific.

ME3 marketing corrected this and people are annoyed.

If I worked on Bioware, I just wouldn't be able to swallow BSN.

[CannonO]

Arkitekt wrote...

CannonLars wrote...


It hasn't barely begun. We had a lot more in the first few trailers for the previous two games than we are getting out of the ME3 action scenes they choose to use. The VGAs are not the only place they have marketed it this way.

ME2 marketing was accused of being terribly spoilerific.

ME3 marketing corrected this and people are annoyed.

If I worked on Bioware, I just wouldn't be able to swallow BSN.

Corrected? You mean ommitted the story substance in trailers? ME3 marketing is not on par with great spoiler free marketing for equal quality films and games. As someone else mentioned, Rockstar games manages to show fantastic, theatrical style trailers with story and a sense of gameplay. Mass Effect 3 is not doing this because it is the only way to avoid spoilers, but rather to aim at new audiences late in the trilogy. Great trailers for great games and films avoid spoilers beautifully while displaying what they have to offer. ME1 did good, many film trailers do great at mixing action and story without spoiler. ME3 is capable of the same, but instead it is leaned away from story and people claim that is how you avoid spoilers.

The VGA trailer is one release in a line of marketing that has all leaned that way. I am not restricting my comment to the VGA trailer.

Modifié par CannonLars, 12 décembre 2011 - 12:33 .

[Savber100]

Arkitekt wrote...

CannonLars wrote...


It hasn't barely begun. We had a lot more in the first few trailers for the previous two games than we are getting out of the ME3 action scenes they choose to use. The VGAs are not the only place they have marketed it this way.

ME2 marketing was accused of being terribly spoilerific.

ME3 marketing corrected this and people are annoyed.

If I worked on Bioware, I just wouldn't be able to swallow BSN.

Heck I'm surprised that the devs at Bioware don't get suicidal reading these forums. 

I mean imagine the feeling of watching people twisting your words when you thought they know better or unfair accusations based on 2-3 mins of advertisement. (What's this? An ad that focuses on upcoming galactics war? HERESY!)  Very frustrating no matter the circumstances. <_<

[Savber100]

CannonLars wrote...

Corrected? You mean ommitted the story substance in trailers? ME3 marketing is not on par with great spoiler free marketing for equal quality films and games. As someone else mentioned, Rockstar games manages to show fantastic, theatrical style trailers with story and a sense of gameplay. Mass Effect 3 is not doing this because it is the only way to avoid spoilers, but rather to aim at new audiences late in the trilogy. Great trailers for great games and films avoid spoilers beautifully while displaying what they have to offer. ME1 did good, many film trailers do great at mixing action and story without spoiler. ME3 is capable of the same, but instead it is leaned away from story and people claim that is how you avoid spoilers.

The VGA trailer is one release in a line of marketing that has all leaned that way. I am not restricting my comment to the VGA trailer.

Yeah did you ever notice that they released those types of trailer just WEEKS or 1-2 months before release? Sure there's the exception to the rule but don't go thinking  that people don't complain about spoilers in marketing whether in film etc (coughRangocough)

Modifié par Savber100, 12 décembre 2011 - 12:39 .

[PsychoWARD23]

It's not that it's action, it's that it's not well-edited.





Let's look at the squad leader trailer:

And now at a showcase of the Soldier in ME2:


Hmmm, which one's better made? Hmmmm

Modifié par PsychoWARD23, 12 décembre 2011 - 12:40 .

[CannonO]

Outcry has gotten worse with each game. The outcry is reaction to the shifts. Clearly, the games have shifted enough to cause the outcry.

Modifié par CannonLars, 12 décembre 2011 - 12:44 .

[Arkitekt]

CannonLars wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

CannonLars wrote...


It hasn't barely begun. We had a lot more in the first few trailers for the previous two games than we are getting out of the ME3 action scenes they choose to use. The VGAs are not the only place they have marketed it this way.

ME2 marketing was accused of being terribly spoilerific.

ME3 marketing corrected this and people are annoyed.

If I worked on Bioware, I just wouldn't be able to swallow BSN.

Corrected? You mean ommitted the story substance in trailers? ME3 marketing is not on par with great spoiler free marketing for equal quality films and games. As someone else mentioned, Rockstar games manages to show fantastic, theatrical style trailers with story and a sense of gameplay. Mass Effect 3 is not doing this because it is the only way to avoid spoilers, but rather to aim at new audiences late in the trilogy.

I just love the smell of telepathic bullpoop in the morning. I really do.

Great trailers for great games and films avoid spoilers beautifully while displaying what they have to offer. ME1 did good, many film trailers do great at mixing action and story without spoiler. ME3 is capable of the same, but instead it is leaned away from story and people claim that is how you avoid spoilers.

The VGA trailer is one release in a line of marketing that has all leaned that way. I am not restricting my comment to the VGA trailer.

O RLY? So does that "comment" include the invasion trailer? Or the initial teaser trailer? 

[Arkitekt]

CannonLars wrote...

Outcry has gotten worse with each game. The outcry is reaction to the shifts. Clearly, the games have shifted enough to cause the outcry.

Yeah, just look at ME2. Incredibly bad game.

Really, you are just spreading nonsense here.

[Michale_Jackson]

AlexXIV wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

my questions still remains this "how much control do we have on the squaddies when it comes to customization?"

I mean...I'm OK if we have very little customization and it's all about shepard (hell in other RPGs you can have followers and have zero control of their equipment or actions and no one complains much about it) but please do not insult us and give us meaningless "outfit picking options" and call it "fully customizable squadmates".

ME1 had fully customizable squadmates that actually felt like RPG characters, ME2's system for them was.....well...just token BS to keep the RPOg crowd happy while not making the heads of the casual shooter crowd hurt

Tbh customisation of anyone aside from the main character has nothing to do with roleplay. You play Shepard, not Liara, Wrex, Garrus, Wrex, etc. Since when do your friends wear what you tell them? It may be your presonal preference to have control about their equipment, but it is not an RPG element. Just think about RPGs who don't even have companions.

it very much has to do with role play, equipping your team is common in every traditional RPG game.    To say that's not = RPG  is just assinine.


To the OP, I hope Bioware go back to the ME1 formula and just improve over it with ME3.

Mass Effect 1 was my first taste of RPG that after beating it I went on to the heavier RPGs on 360 at the time Lost Odyssey and later Blue Dragon.    

[CannonO]

Arkitekt wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

Outcry has gotten worse with each game. The outcry is reaction to the shifts. Clearly, the games have shifted enough to cause the outcry.

Yeah, just look at ME2. Incredibly bad game.

Really, you are just spreading nonsense here.

I didn't badmouth ME2 in my post. I said they shifted. 

"If you want to make enemies, try to change something."

That was my point. Maybe they change something for the better, doesn't meant here won't be outcry over the changes.

You are spreading nonsense. I did not call ME2 bad at all.

[Arkitekt]

PsychoWARD23 wrote...

It's not that it's action, it's that it's not well-edited.





Let's look at the squad leader trailer:

And now at a showcase of the Soldier in ME2:


Hmmm, which one's better made? Hmmmm

Take notice on the time stamps. Those clips were released 15 days before the game itself.

[Mclouvins]

Arkitekt wrote...

PsychoWARD23 wrote...

It's not that it's action, it's that it's not well-edited.





Let's look at the squad leader trailer:

And now at a showcase of the Soldier in ME2:


Hmmm, which one's better made? Hmmmm

Take notice on the time stamps. Those clips were released 15 days before the game itself.

^ This, and 15+ days before the launch of ME3 we will see tv spots with cropped scenes and cgi and all that other nonsense. If you want noncombat stuff watch bioware pulse in the meantime, that stuff is already there to an extent and more is likely on the way.