303 réponses à ce sujet

[Harmless Citizen]

Frankly I'm quite surprised they haven't taken a look at some of the posts on this forum and said 'You know what? **** it' and I would not be angry if they did.

Quoted for extreme truth.

[Swampthing500]

Can you create your own character? Yes.

Can you select the class of that character? Yes.

Does that character level up and develop new skills, powers or abilities? Yes

Do you have control over dialogue? Yes.

Do you have control over numerous quest outcomes? Yes.

Sure as hell meets the RPG requirements for me.

[Arkitekt]

Il Divo wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Personally, I always argue for a game that caters towards me. It would be strange for me to do otherwise.

Pretty much what I do.

Let's all whine how all the games aren't exactly the games we wanted them to be and inundate the net with our indignation and the result will be BSN.... oh wait.

Look, I feel your pain. Since original Doom came out, I wanted it to be more like an adventure, a story driven shooter that at least had imaginative scenarios that were supported by the engine. I had to wait out 6 or 7 years until MDK came about, and only MDK2 was really achieving that result that I wanted about 10 years before.

Thing is, I never blamed Doom for what it wasn't. And specially, I never trolled id forums with my whinings.

[Bleachrude]

PsychoWARD23 wrote...

It's not that it's action, it's that it's not well-edited.





Let's look at the squad leader trailer:

And now at a showcase of the Soldier in ME2:


Hmmm, which one's better made? Hmmmm

Er...that's kind of a bad example to use...

That soldier trailer was released 2 weeks from ME2 release date...Not sure it's fair to compare a trailer that is more than 3 months out with a trailer that was made after the game was literally being shipped to stores...

[Il Divo]

Arkitekt wrote...

Let's all whine how all the games aren't exactly the games we wanted them to be and inundate the net with our indignation and the result will be BSN.... oh wait.

Look, I feel your pain. Since original Doom came out, I wanted it to be more like an adventure, a story driven shooter that at least had imaginative scenarios that were supported by the engine. I had to wait out 6 or 7 years until MDK came about, and only MDK2 was really achieving that result that I wanted about 10 years before.

Thing is, I never blamed Doom for what it wasn't. And specially, I never trolled id forums with my whinings.

No, you clearly don't feel my pain because I'm not feeling any pain.
 
I'm here to argue for what I want in a videogame, because I'm paying good money for it and want ME3 to be my best experience possible. Everyone else is free to do the same, in order to convince Bioware to make their "perfect" game. I personally don't give a crap if they call Mass Effect an RPG, a third person shooter, or a puzzle game, but I will only argue for a game that caters to my interests. I'm not paying $60 so everyone else can have fun.  

Notice that the poster I quoted, I purposely left in only that bit about "catering to my interests", and that's because I don't want more spreadsheets. So I recommend in the future that, before you accuse me of whining and wanting Mass Effect to be something it wasn't, to take a step back and actually think, if that's within your power.

Modifié par Il Divo, 12 décembre 2011 - 04:33 .

[Luvinn]

I think the vast majority of people aren't necessarily 'whining' as many people seem to think anyone who isn't completely happy with ME3 are. I'm happy with ME3 but if someone else is just expressing their opinion on what they want it to be like, far be it from me to get on their case for it. People are customers and as such they have a right to voice any concerns.

Modifié par Luvinn, 12 décembre 2011 - 04:38 .

[Arkitekt]

You know damned well that within 3 months of shipping, you will not have any significant "voice" over anything regarding the game mechanics. So yeah, I say you are whining because you can't possibly expect that Bioware will listen to you, state "Ahhh, the Divo dude is so right, we should so have Excel spreadsheets or wtv" and actually change the game to "cater" to your personal tastes in December 2011 to march 2012.

Specially in the context of a one minute gameplay trailer, which is the one here discussed.

There are many problems related to this, but I'll leave at that.

[Il Divo]

Arkitekt wrote...

You know damned well that within 3 months of shipping, you will not have any significant "voice" over anything regarding the game mechanics. So yeah, I say you are whining because you can't possibly expect that Bioware will listen to you, state "Ahhh, the Divo dude is so right, we should so have Excel spreadsheets or wtv" and actually change the game to "cater" to your personal tastes in December 2011 to march 2012.

Specially in the context of a one minute gameplay trailer, which is the one here discussed.

There are many problems related to this, but I'll leave at that.

No, please continue. I want to hear more of this stupidity. Last I checked, forums are built for discussion. That includes praise, criticism, story, where a game should go, where a game could have gone, and any number of topics related to that game. The forum does not exist for you to solely express your fanboyism.

For one, I have not asked for spreadsheets. If you were capable of reading, you would notice I purposely did not ask for spreadsheets. Yet here you are, whining about whining. There are many problems related to this, but I'll leave it at that.

Modifié par Il Divo, 12 décembre 2011 - 04:46 .

[The Elder King]

nevermind

Modifié par hhh89, 12 décembre 2011 - 04:46 .

[JamieCOTC]

I understand what OP is saying and agree, though it would be nice to see some RPG pop up in the BW Pulse episodes now and again.

[Bleachrude]

Um....this may sound silly, but what was wrong with the Su'Kresh leaked demo/beta.

Had both dialogue, nice looking location, got to see some of the skill tree and combat....

Indeed, it is the longest bit of gameplay footage we've seen (longer than the opening trailer) so what was wrong with it?

[Arkitekt]

Il Divo wrote...

Arkitekt wrote...

You know damned well that within 3 months of shipping, you will not have any significant "voice" over anything regarding the game mechanics. So yeah, I say you are whining because you can't possibly expect that Bioware will listen to you, state "Ahhh, the Divo dude is so right, we should so have Excel spreadsheets or wtv" and actually change the game to "cater" to your personal tastes in December 2011 to march 2012.

Specially in the context of a one minute gameplay trailer, which is the one here discussed.

There are many problems related to this, but I'll leave at that.

No, please continue. I want to hear more of this stupidity. Last I checked, forums are built for discussion. That includes praise, criticism, story, where a game should go, where a game could have gone, and any number of topics related to that game. The forum does not exist for you to solely express your fanboyism. 

For one, I have not asked for spreadsheets. If you were capable of reading, you would notice I purposely did not ask for spreadsheets. Yet here you are, whining about whining. There are many problems related to this, but I'll leave it at that.

No please continue. I want to hear... hey is that an echo?

There's a difference between arguing for a game that one wants and arguing that "Bioware games are not about what Mass Effect is turning to be!!", which seems to be the main theme around here. If you don't subscribe to that stupidity, then kudos to you. And no, I am no fanboy, I just don't feel "entitled" to a game that isn't mine.

[Il Divo]

Arkitekt wrote...

No please continue. I want to hear... hey is that an echo?

There's a difference between arguing for a game that one wants and arguing that "Bioware games are not about what Mass Effect is turning to be!!", which seems to be the main theme around here. If you don't subscribe to that stupidity, then kudos to you. And no, I am no fanboy, I just don't feel "entitled" to a game that isn't mine.

FYI, I fall into the former category. I argue for what I want/like and that's really it. And neither do I feel entitled, however I typically don't advocate for products which I have no intention of buying and which I do not enjoy. The idea seems rather pointless. As a paying customer, I do have an active interest in ME3.

Modifié par Il Divo, 12 décembre 2011 - 04:55 .

[Thompson family]

Random Nobody wrote...

Frankly I'm quite surprised they haven't taken a look at some of the posts on this forum and said 'You know what? **** it' and I would not be angry if they did.

Quoted for extreme truth.

Quite.

[byzantine horse]

I will paraphrase what I said in the VGA thread:

To some it ruins their immersion when the protagonist isn't a complete noob at whatever he is doing when the game begins, it ruins their immersion that Shepard is profficient at doing his job and actually can shoot rather than miss at point-blank-range for the first 10 levels because the player hasn't spent enough points into the "Shooting"-skill yet. It breaks their immersion that they can't play Shepard as a guy who fluked his way through military school and the rest of his career up until now because what if they want to play that way?

To someone who can think rationally it would break immersion more if you added the possibility of shooting like a dofus because - suprise - Shepard is a soldier and has most likely trained alot with guns. But I digress, some people will never be satisfied.

[The Spamming Troll]

Exia001 wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Exia001 wrote...

I'm getting really sick of these RPG threads, ME was never designed to be a straight out role-playing game and should be treated as such, I've heard people complain about how the games are not like stat heavy games like Fallout. These people do not understand that the game is not meant to be any thing but Mass Effect.  people complaining about the lack of RPG elements fail to understand that games or a series of games need to evolve, I enjoyed 2, and one of the reasons I enjoyed this game was because it did not have the statistic heavy nature of the first game and I cannot understand why people feel the need to nerd rage when these things are omitted. You want the first game?play the first game.

You want Fallout? play Fallout.

I want Mass Effect though. And yet I don't get that with the sequels any more.

The thing is, this works both ways, which you seem to have missed. That's quite common here. Yes, Mass Effect isn't supposed to be a pure-class, straight-up RPG. But nor is it just supposed to be a TPS with some dialogue options and little else. The statistical RPG elements in ME2 were so shallow they were laughable, and the whole thing was so simplified and dumbed-down it played itself for you half the time without any real thought needed from the player, and faked it the other half the time.

I still stand by that point I make in a lot of threads, though its people about rage about the game and feel that they cancelled pre-orders are worth something. Are eventually going to buy the game or were planning to buy the game in the first place. People need to show more appreciation for the fact that a large team of people are working incredibly long hours to bring you a product to enjoy. Frankly I'm quite surprised they haven't taken a look at some of the posts on this forum and said 'You know what? **** it' and I would not be angry if they did.

Except that it's pretty clear they're not. They're clearly making the Mass Effect games now more with getting new fans in mind than actually making something for those who came in with the original to enjoy.

I think what I'm trying to say under all this text is that, evole, some you like some you don't, all role-playing games do not come with the 23 sided dice and you have to live with the. ME3 is almost finished, ranting and raving isn't going to change anything will. ME3 isn't going to be like the games you love it is going to be what it is. If you don't like that. Then play those games.

A game series should remain consistent and true to its original formula though. It's okay to evolve, but changing it too much and it ceases to be what it was. Again, it works both ways: Mass Effect was never a hardcore, stat-heavy RPG, but nor was it a pure class shooter. The focus has shifted and priorities have changed. It seems okay for RPG elements to be neglected, dumbed down, automated and downright cut, but the TPS side of things can't suffer it seems. That's the way both BioWare and the blind sheep who support them no matter what they do seem to believe.

When I play a Mass Effect game I want to play a Mass Effect game, not just "Gears of War with dialogue" when it comes down to it. ME2 wasn't quite that shallow, but it was damn close. I didn't get into Mass Effect to become a Gears fan, a Fallout fan, a Halo fan, or even a Baldur's Gate or Dragon Age fan. It got into it to become a Mass Effect fan. But then BioWare had to go and change what "Mass Effect" was just so Joe Average Mainstream Gamer would be more interested in it.

If a series doesn't remain well-defined and consistent, then what's the point in even having it or becoming a fan of it at all? I don't want to get into Mass Effect today so it can become Gears of War in five years, just like I don't want to become a fan of Star Trek now so it can become The Sopranos in five years. The problem is so many people these days don't seem to care about consistency and integrity any more, and as long as an IP remains enjoyable to them no matter how it's warped they'll support and love it, which I just can't do.

To me, if Mass Effect became like Batman: Arkham City then I'd hate it, even as a fan of Batman and Arkham City. To most other people here they would still love it because they love Arkham City, even though it ceases to really be Mass Effect any more. And that's a mentality I just don't understand, get or support at all. I enjoy Mass Effect for Mass Effect, and Batman for Batman. They're different types of IPs and different types of games I enjoy for different reasons. It just dilutes them both and lessens them both if they were to change what they were.

Arkitekt wrote...

I don't care about what you think the industry is saying about the categories of games there are. To me, categories are like prisons of the mind, they strangle every product to fit a category, and if it doesn't fit, we get all these people clamoring that product X Y or Z doesn't have every characteristic that has been "defined" by a certain "official" authority on the matter, then it's like a bad thing or something (or worth of discussion). This smells like lazy sheepish thinking to me. I don't care if ME is RPG or not. What I care is if whether its various characteristics fit together, are appealing and entertaining or not. And from what I've read from Bioware people, they have mostly this attitude regarding categories, which is great.

And that's the same attitude that is resulting in ill-defined, generic titles that are clogging the AAA release lists today. Nothing has it's own identity any more, it's all the same semi-cinematic, story-driven action titles with light RPG elements as everything else. And BioWare is now falling into the same trap, just merely from the other side. In the spread and abundance of Neopolitan flavoured ice cream, we're losing chocolate, strawberry and vanilla.

What then, do you want?

you read all that, and your still confused what he is looking for????!?!??

good luck with this guy terror!

[Aeowyn]

11/12/2010 - Photo Revives Debate Over Tuchanka's "Colossal Thresher Maw"

“A photo taken by Clan Ravanor miners during a drilling operation on the krogan homeworld of Tuchanka is reigniting debate on the existence of a colossal thresher maw. The photo, now being viewed widely on the extranet, adds to a long line of evidence that skeptics call an old and treasured hoax -- and believers call irrefutable proof. For centuries,
krogan settlements bordering Tuchanka's deserts have told stories of entire clans swallowed by this colossal thresher maw. While locals claim the ancient creature is real, no outside sources have confirmed the beast's existence.”

I guess it's real then.

Modifié par Aeowyn, 12 décembre 2011 - 07:22 .

[Phaedon]

Terror_K wrote...

Kotaku gets it:-

kotaku.com/5867121/what-does-bioware-even-mean-any-more-it-doesnt-mean-command--conquer

Amazing.

I am pretty sure that you actually said something akin to "IGN gets it" sometime after the first round of co-op previews. Let me know when Gamerant gets it too. Or at least when they agree with your opinion, even though they are wrong.

Yeah, wrong. Factually wrong. Chronologically wrong.

BioWare's first game was a shooter. BioWare's third game was a shooter.

Not an RPG shooter. A shooter.


Sonic Chronicles, ME Galaxy were definitely not RPGs. SWTOR is an MMORPG. The ME games were by, every definition of the word, whether you like it or not, not Gears of War with dialogue options, but RPG/Shooter hybrids.

The in-between games? BG? NWN?DA? JE? KOTOR?
Is that what BioWare stands for? The in-between games which you PERSONALLY preferred?
If you wish to call all of them RPGs at the same time, then you will also have to accept that their gameplay mechanics are nothing alike. It's as if they belong to different subgenres.

So, before you call BioWare an "RPG powerhouse", and when you choose to ignore the massive percentage of non-RPGs which they made in between, consider this: BioWare never rested on a single kind of game, genre or subgenre, but continued to try out new ideas.

And as much as it hurts, if BioWare was still what it was meant to be, the current game in development would have been an FPS, and a COD clone at that. Why? They copy/pasted MechWarrior, it would have only been the natural evolution for BioWare to have spawned CoD clones since the release of CoD2.

[Wulfram]

The article is entirely sensible. It's silly to slap the Bioware lable on a studio that has little or nothing to do with what the world thinks of when it says Bioware, in a genre in which Bioware has never involved itself. Though I suppose technically if ME1 is a shooter, then BG1 could be loosely considered an RTS.

Bioware made two non-RPGs 15 years ago. That doesn't make "RPG Powerhouse" an unreasonable description.

Not really sure what the article has to do with the thread, but it's perfectly reasonable.

Modifié par Wulfram, 12 décembre 2011 - 09:34 .

[FoxShadowblade]

Swampthing500 wrote...

Can you create your own character? Yes.

Can you select the class of that character? Yes.

Does that character level up and develop new skills, powers or abilities? Yes

Do you have control over dialogue? Yes.

Do you have control over numerous quest outcomes? Yes.

Sure as hell meets the RPG requirements for me.

Pretty much this. But don't you try to bring logic into angry RPG-fanboyism!

...It's not possible, and it never ends well.

[Phaedon]

Wulfram wrote...

The article is entirely sensible. It's silly to slap the Bioware lable on a studio that has little or nothing to do with what the world thinks of when it says Bioware, in a genre in which Bioware has never involved itself. Though I suppose technically if ME1 is a shooter, then BG1 could be loosely considered an RTS.

Bioware made two non-RPGs 15 years ago. That doesn't make "RPG Powerhouse" an unreasonable description.

Not really sure what the article has to do with the thread, but it's perfectly reasonable.

The last BioWare non-RPGs are SWToR (yet to be released) [Purists consider MMORPGs as true RPGs now?], Mass Effect Galaxy (2009), Sonic Chronicles (2008). They make up for 40% of BioWare's latest 10 games. And that's NOT counting their social games. Otherwise, it'd be 50-60% of them.

According to that "article":
-BioWare's brand name has been diluted not by earlier games, but by Generals 2 alone.
-BioWare's brand name has to do with illusions caused by marketing, not actual facts.

[Andorfiend]

The article is about EA squandering Bioware's reputation on other studios games. Not a clever move.

WRT Mass Effect 3 I'm less concerned with whether or not it's an RPG than with if it's ME 3.

What does that mean?

If I start a game of ME 3 with a character who killed wrex, saved the council, nominated Udina, and killed Shialla and Rana and the Rachni queen: I had dammed well better see a different universe than with my other import who killed the council, nominated Anderson and saved Wrex, Shiala, Rana and the Rachni Queen. If they renege on that, then they betrayed the promise they made to us years ago when they published ME 1.

If they follow through on that promise then the traditional RPG trappings like inventories and skill levels I can live without. If they blow it, then no amount of RPG elements will salvage the game.

[Thompson family]

BTW, the thread's title should read: "Where are Mass Effect 3's RPG Elements?" Not "is."

[LucidStrike]

AlexXIV wrote...

Tbh customisation of anyone aside from the main character has nothing to do with roleplay. You play Shepard, not Liara, Wrex, Garrus, Wrex, etc. Since when do your friends wear what you tell them? It may be your presonal preference to have control about their equipment, but it is not an RPG element. Just think about RPGs who don't even have companions.

[...]

I didn't mean to say that it is wrong to ask for custumisation of companions. Just that you can't nail them on roleplay. Because you play Shepard only. You don't make decisions for them either. Well unless you make decissions regarding the whole team of course. Just saying that they are considered their own persons. As a commander you may order a certain uniform or you probably can buy them better gear, and why would they not use it? But I never really liked the idea of treating companions like your own character. Makes it hard to view them as their own person.

This. I always thought it was strange. I want to INFLUENCE my squadmates, not micromanage them. They're supposed to be their own characters. =/

Modifié par LucidStrike, 12 décembre 2011 - 10:47 .