313 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Mass Effect Player wrote...
What do you want form me? I'm using the military protocol scenario here, not civilian. You are obviously pro and I'm not. I think its better if I just end it.

Not at all. I'm not saying what's customary for today's military if ME was set in modern time I'd agree with you. You however are trying to say what's customary for a fictional universe's military. Which...no. You do not know what is acceptable to them anymore than I do. Both of us are making guesses. I'm just making guesses based off the genders being equal in treatment which does not happen in many modern day militaries.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 décembre 2011 - 01:20 .

[Oblivious]

Ryzaki wrote...

Mass Effect Player wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

..how is giving him longer hair wasting himself more than pissing off the council? I'd say the later was far more detrimental.

Not to mention. Leaked Beta. Shep's getting fat cause he's eating fatty food

Every military member has to be presentable and not look like a thug.

*stares at renedouche Shep*

Uh...that ship sailed a LONG time ago.

@Oblivious: Uh...you see that picture of Vega? He has a clear tattoo on his neck. Pretty sure the alliance doesn't give a damn. A long hair can be perfectly presentable. It does not have to be ugly and dirty. (frankly it'd be bleh if it was). Long hair does not stop grooming.

TBH I have not seen that tattoo but according to current USMC regulation as long as a tattoo is neither offensive nor viewable in uniform (collared T-shirt) it is acceptable. The thing is "long" hair is expressly forbidden, especially in men.

I admit, Orlando Bloom and Brad Pitt look sexy but I will not follow either of them into battle under any circumstances because I cannot respect them. To me they look like pretty boys, not leaders worthy of respect. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm not. Thing is that every military understands that first impressions are everything, and no military wants to even risk having enlisted men not respect their officers. Discipline and presentation are everything; a Shepard with long hair is abandoning both of these virtues.

To a civilian long-hair may be nothing, but in a military environment it is everything. And a game that is centered around a military environment to suddenly abandon the strict military discipline is to go against its own lore. If you want to say that Shepard might grow his hair out to spite the Alliance then fine, but in that case I never wanna hear anybody call Shepard "Commander."

[mybudgee]

Ha! The Norwegian army...*giggling*

[Ryzaki]

@Oblivious: So you have a problem with Ash's hair being down then? It is covering one of her eyes in that shot when she's using an AR.

As for the game going against it's own lore. *looks at ME2 outfits in hazardous enviornments* Yeah late for that.

At least Shep having a long hairstyle would be optional. You could completely ignore it.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 décembre 2011 - 01:21 .

[TheShogunOfHarlem]

Mass Effect Player wrote...

I disagree. I read why you want long hair but its not realistic. Long Hair in military's female or male can't be really long not just because the enemy might pull on it, its also about hygiene and discipline. Your aren't really supposed to be a individual in the military. Look at this evidence the Dutch did what you wanted in the 70's and look were that got them, they got rid of it. Sorry to bring your hopes down but its not realistic. Unless you want Shep to have the standardized length thats acceptable for females.

Tell that to Delta force, DEVGRU, SAS or any other Tier 1 Special Operations Force. They don't have to follow Uniform, or hair/grooming/length regulations for the simple reason that they are supposed blend in to their environments.

Shepard is an N7 (Which I would assume is equivalent to being a Tier 1 force) yet he/she sticks out like a sore thumb all the time. That's one thing that always bothered me about the N7s, you can spot them as clear as day. Delta Force don't even have tabs on their dress uniforms that specifically indicate what unit they in.

What Gives?

[tobynator89]

Ryzaki wrote...

Mass Effect Player wrote...
No I never said that and you never brought up attitude. It's like going for a job interview are you going to come show up looking like you just got up or look presentable and professional.

So you're telling me you can't look presentable and professional with long hair? 

Because clearly ME standards are different from our militaries. Thus there's a chance their hair standards are also different. (Nevermind that Shep can be a Spectre rendering the whole thing moot).

In the military, presentability is directly tied to practicality.

Officer sees combat personell with long hair, they are signalling that they don't take their job seriously enough to do their utmost to stay combat effective, then they might not take their job seriously to get the job done either.

Shep is infantry and the same rules apply to him that have applied to infantrymen for the past 500 years or so.

[Ryzaki]

tobynator89 wrote...
In the military, presentability is directly tied to practicality.

Officer sees combat personell with long hair, they are signalling that they don't take their job seriously enough to do their utmost to stay combat effective, then they might not take their job seriously to get the job done either.

Shep is infantry and the same rules apply to him that have applied to infantrymen for the past 500 years or so.

So Ash and new Default FemShep aren't presentable then? And wouldn't be taken seriously? 

Where are you getting the last bit from?

[Oblivious]

mybudgee wrote...

Ha! The Norwegian army...*giggling*

Norwegian, Spanish, Hungarian, w/e. I respect everyone willing to risk themselves in joining the military. Well everyone except the French...

[tobynator89]

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

Mass Effect Player wrote...

I disagree. I read why you want long hair but its not realistic. Long Hair in military's female or male can't be really long not just because the enemy might pull on it, its also about hygiene and discipline. Your aren't really supposed to be a individual in the military. Look at this evidence the Dutch did what you wanted in the 70's and look were that got them, they got rid of it. Sorry to bring your hopes down but its not realistic. Unless you want Shep to have the standardized length thats acceptable for females.

Tell that to Delta force, DEVGRU, SAS or any other Tier 1 Special Operations Force. They don't have to follow Uniform, or hair/grooming/length regulations for the simple reason that they are supposed blend in to their environments.

Shepard is an N7 (Which I would assume is equivalent to being a Tier 1 force) yet he/she sticks out like a sore thumb all the time. That's one thing that always bothered me about the N7s, you can spot them as clear as day. Delta Force don't even have tabs on their dress uniforms that specifically indicate what unit they in.

What Gives?

Since when has shep ever been part of a military undercover plainclothes op though? He's spec ops frontline combat personell. Which means his job is mainly force recon and observation.

[Oblivious]

Ryzaki wrote...

@Oblivious: So you have a problem with Ash's hair being down then? It is covering one of her eyes in that shot when she's using an AR.

As for the game going against it's own lore. *looks at ME2 outfits in hazardous enviornments* Yeah late for that.

At least Shep having a long hairstyle would be optional. You could completely ignore it.

Ash's hair is regulation. It reaches her neck. In and out of uniform that is a-ok. It's only in combat that would be against regulation. But I also remember seeing an image of her with a pony tail and combat armor so that argument is moot

[Ryzaki]

Oblivious wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

@Oblivious: So you have a problem with Ash's hair being down then? It is covering one of her eyes in that shot when she's using an AR.

As for the game going against it's own lore. *looks at ME2 outfits in hazardous enviornments* Yeah late for that.

At least Shep having a long hairstyle would be optional. You could completely ignore it.

Ash's hair is regulation. It reaches her neck. In and out of uniform that is a-ok. It's only in combat that would be against regulation. But I also remember seeing an image of her with a pony tail and combat armor so that argument is moot

That's what I would consider long hair for my dude Shep.

Did you bother looking at the link I posted?

I'm not looking for Sephiroth hair. (1. The animation would be ****** poor and 2. This is not a JRPG.

Her AAP armor includes her hair down.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 décembre 2011 - 01:28 .

[TheShogunOfHarlem]

Oblivious wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Mass Effect Player wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

..how is giving him longer hair wasting himself more than pissing off the council? I'd say the later was far more detrimental.

Not to mention. Leaked Beta. Shep's getting fat cause he's eating fatty food

Every military member has to be presentable and not look like a thug.

*stares at renedouche Shep*

Uh...that ship sailed a LONG time ago.

@Oblivious: Uh...you see that picture of Vega? He has a clear tattoo on his neck. Pretty sure the alliance doesn't give a damn. A long hair can be perfectly presentable. It does not have to be ugly and dirty. (frankly it'd be bleh if it was). Long hair does not stop grooming.

TBH I have not seen that tattoo but according to current USMC regulation as long as a tattoo is neither offensive nor viewable in uniform (collared T-shirt) it is acceptable. The thing is "long" hair is expressly forbidden, especially in men.

I admit, Orlando Bloom and Brad Pitt look sexy but I will not follow either of them into battle under any circumstances because I cannot respect them. To me they look like pretty boys, not leaders worthy of respect. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm not. Thing is that every military understands that first impressions are everything, and no military wants to even risk having enlisted men not respect their officers. Discipline and presentation are everything; a Shepard with long hair is abandoning both of these virtues.

To a civilian long-hair may be nothing, but in a military environment it is everything. And a game that is centered around a military environment to suddenly abandon the strict military discipline is to go against its own lore. If you want to say that Shepard might grow his hair out to spite the Alliance then fine, but in that case I never wanna hear anybody call Shepard "Commander."

Se my post above.

Tier 1 Special Operations forces can and do have the autonomy to have long hair and beards. Google Delta force pictures and you'll see what I'm talking about.

[tobynator89]

Ryzaki wrote...

tobynator89 wrote...
In the military, presentability is directly tied to practicality.

Officer sees combat personell with long hair, they are signalling that they don't take their job seriously enough to do their utmost to stay combat effective, then they might not take their job seriously to get the job done either.

Shep is infantry and the same rules apply to him that have applied to infantrymen for the past 500 years or so.

So Ash and new Default FemShep aren't presentable then? And wouldn't be taken seriously? 

Where are you getting the last bit from?

I get that last bit from the fact that i'm infantry myself, and the way shep fights hasn't changed notably from present day. And yes, ash without her hair tied up and new femshep isn't presentable at all.

Modifié par tobynator89, 12 décembre 2011 - 01:29 .

[Ryzaki]

@toby: well at least then my long haired dude Shep and default FemShep would be equally non presentable.

I don't mind my Shep not being presentable since it's a game. I just want the option. Because the current hairstyles I find just plain ugly or look like Shep dumped grease on his head. 

Plus Ash's hair goes far past her shoulders.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 décembre 2011 - 01:30 .

[Oblivious]

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

Mass Effect Player wrote...

I disagree. I read why you want long hair but its not realistic. Long Hair in military's female or male can't be really long not just because the enemy might pull on it, its also about hygiene and discipline. Your aren't really supposed to be a individual in the military. Look at this evidence the Dutch did what you wanted in the 70's and look were that got them, they got rid of it. Sorry to bring your hopes down but its not realistic. Unless you want Shep to have the standardized length thats acceptable for females.

Tell that to Delta force, DEVGRU, SAS or any other Tier 1 Special Operations Force. They don't have to follow Uniform, or hair/grooming/length regulations for the simple reason that they are supposed blend in to their environments.

Shepard is an N7 (Which I would assume is equivalent to being a Tier 1 force) yet he/she sticks out like a sore thumb all the time. That's one thing that always bothered me about the N7s, you can spot them as clear as day. Delta Force don't even have tabs on their dress uniforms that specifically indicate what unit they in.

What Gives?

Have you ever seen a Tier 1 unit or an SAS personnel? If not then this argument is invalid, and no I don't give a damn about what some website on the internet says. I want you to tell me what Tier 1 personnel wear. I know for a fact they wear beards, I know for a fact they wear civvie clothing, and I know for a fact they don't have to give a damn about military regulation. I also know for a fact that they are too experienced to do something as stupid as run a Black-Ops mission with long hair.

BTW, N7 are shock troops. They're closer to the Royal Marine Commandos, United States Army Ranger, and United
States Marine Force Recon than a Tier 1 unit.

[Demonique]

Halfno wrote...

Mass Effect Player wrote...

Halfno wrote...

Pretty certain all of those funky beards are pretty individualistic...

Your changing the subject. Facial hair is a different story. In contrast I dont have a problem with standarized facial hair now in the future or in fiction. As long as it doesn't affect your ability in the battlefield and the style is dictated by rank and experience. The reason why most Western military's got rid of it was because of the threat of WMD weapons.

There are plenty of historical examples of long hair in western militaries. The biggest reason for short now being the standard was fleas and lice in the trenches

I recently found out that they used to fry up the fleas and lice in the trenches and eat them....lovely

[TheShogunOfHarlem]

tobynator89 wrote...

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

Mass Effect Player wrote...

I disagree. I read why you want long hair but its not realistic. Long Hair in military's female or male can't be really long not just because the enemy might pull on it, its also about hygiene and discipline. Your aren't really supposed to be a individual in the military. Look at this evidence the Dutch did what you wanted in the 70's and look were that got them, they got rid of it. Sorry to bring your hopes down but its not realistic. Unless you want Shep to have the standardized length thats acceptable for females.

Tell that to Delta force, DEVGRU, SAS or any other Tier 1 Special Operations Force. They don't have to follow Uniform, or hair/grooming/length regulations for the simple reason that they are supposed blend in to their environments.

Shepard is an N7 (Which I would assume is equivalent to being a Tier 1 force) yet he/she sticks out like a sore thumb all the time. That's one thing that always bothered me about the N7s, you can spot them as clear as day. Delta Force don't even have tabs on their dress uniforms that specifically indicate what unit they in.

What Gives?

Since when has shep ever been part of a military undercover plainclothes op though? He's spec ops frontline combat personell. Which means his job is mainly force recon and observation.

*FACEPALM*
The way I see it: N7=Tier 1. Please Google the basic capabilities of any tier 1 force and Direct Action, Recon and numerous other frontline and behind enemy lines operations are a part of their capabilities. I fail to see how that contradicts my point.

[Ryzaki]

Wait a second.

It's not realistic?

When did I argue Shep having long hair had anything to do with damn realism? I want him to have long hair because he'd look damn good with it. Just like my renedouche is a rude ****** to everyone superior or not because it's funny.

It's a game. Why would I care about realism?

Modifié par Ryzaki, 12 décembre 2011 - 01:33 .