728 réponses à ce sujet

[Herr Uhl]

TheCreeper wrote...

I hope Mages/Templars doesn't consume every single aspect of DA3 but considering DA2 literally was all about setting up that and hawke's rise to power, It would be very silly if it wasn't the central plot of DA3.

I'd say it was partly about establishing the Qunari more as well.

[TheCreeper]

Okay true, but still. DA2 (For all it's flaws) was all leading up to the Beginnings of the mage/templar conflict (Well not really beginnings from what I've heard of Asunder, it makes Kirkwall sound vaguely like an Alamo that somehow managed to happen before the war itself.)

[mikey 345]

"what do you want from me? the young man smiled coldly I want you to look into my eyes"

one of the best moments of the book other then Fiona saying "**** the Divine" ah good to see she hasn't changed"

[The Baconer]

mikey 345 wrote...

"what do you want from me? the young man smiled coldly I want you to look into my eyes"

[Augustei]

Great_Horn wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

I hope people remember that the current book is not going to be what the game is but rather provide the foundation for the next game. I wouldn't expect to see everything from the book incorporated in the game.

I wouldn’t mind if the whole Mages vers. Templar plot was already over. It´s not that kind of setting I wished for DA:3.

I agree, I hope they just finish it up in other mediums not the games. Its not really interesting in comparsion to other possible stories to follow imo.

mikey 345 wrote...
"what do you want from me? the young man smiled coldly I want you to look into my eyes"

one of the best moments of the book other then Fiona saying "**** the Divine" ah good to see she hasn't changed"

What?! Fiona is in this book... as in Fiona form the calling? As in Fiona Alistair's possible mother?

[mikey 345]

yeah fiona's in it and i was very pleased that she's still such a bad ass

[Augustei]

mikey 345 wrote...

yeah fiona's in it and i was very pleased that she's still such a bad ass

Whats her role in it?


Also is there any mention of Alistair in the book?

[monte302]

XxDeonxX wrote...

mikey 345 wrote...

yeah fiona's in it and i was very pleased that she's still such a bad ass

Whats her role in it?


Also is there any mention of Alistair in the book?

Grand Enchanter Fiona. She is no longer with the Wardens.

I kinda liked this book

Modifié par monte302, 21 décembre 2011 - 05:47 .

[Ulicus]

Brockololly wrote...

Is there any kind of timeline in the book, like at the end in an appendix? That would be swell.

Nope.

It'd be nice if they started including something like that, though, yeah.

[TEWR]

Wait... Grand Enchanter Fiona? As in the Mage position that has the most clout with the Divine?

[Ulicus]

Yes.

[Ryo Bondiko]

Nope no timeline, but at least we are told that the book happens in 9:40

So, I finished the book today after quite a marathon yesterday... just couldn't put it down anymore once I was sucked into the story.
It was great to have all those characters return, especially Shale was fun and Leliana was just as great as ever. I also grew quite fond of the Divine, she is definately a mayor player for the future. Considering that I will most likely choose the side of the mages again, it is good to know, that I probably won't have to kill her or Leliana on that course.

Wynne's death was really sad, she showed her best in the book and found an end most befitting her. I really loved the scene where she talked about the grey warden fortress, ending with: "... and griffons". I really wanted to asked about the griffons again and again^^
I was happy that her death also saved Evangeline, she was indeed my favourite new character. It remains to be seen, if Wynne's spirit is now inside her, effectively making her a Spirit-Warrior/Templar-Hybrid. She might then even be a companion for DA3, pretty much filling the role of Alistair as Tank-Templar. Let us hope so.

One of the best revelations however was Fiona being Grand Enchanter. There are really a lot of implications in that, especially if she is Alistars mother (of which I have little doubt). As far as the book is concerned, It is never said (as that would agitate the fanbase - little does not nowadays -.-) if Alistar is king in the canon, but I do think so and that would really be an interesting connection for DA3.

Two things, however, I still can't really make out:
1) That "evil" staff Wynne used. She said she got it, when she was with the Warden. Is my memory failing me, and this was part of DAO, or wasn't it?
2) A very interesting detail, but maybe I am overestimating: Cole, being a spirit (though not necessarily a demon), could hear the "calling" of the old gods, which can actually only be heard by those with the taint in them (as wardens and darkspawn). It led me to believe he was tainted at first, but this does not make any sense anymore. Did I miss something, or is this really a hint to something big?
Could there be a connection between the "calling" and the "music" of the lyrium? After all Bartrand was babbling about hearing music as well when he had the idol. Can that really be a coincidence? Maybe the red lyrium is somehow connected to the old gods and the taint?

[Dave of Canada]

So, just to clarify, are mages still the underdogs of Thedas or after Asunder they've gotten a lot of support?

[Ryo Bondiko]

Well, the book shows the beginning of a big conflict. There definately is support for the mages. We already knew that Alistair did loosen the leash in Fereldan, and, as I already hinted, if Alistair learns who his mother is, we can expect to see Fereldan supporting the mage side.
Then there is the Divine who seems to favor a peaceful coexistence with mages by reforming the Circle, but does not shy away from secretly tricking her fellow templars and seekers to get that end.
After the templars turned directly against her it is likely that she has to support the mages to save her very own life. At least the Lord Seeker seemed to hope for a new and "wiser" Divine on the throne, and had he survived, it is likely that Justina would have been in danger.
Even Leliana can only kill so many assassins and having both the templars and mages at the throat of the Chantry is too much.
Also, with Fiona being Grand Enchanter and more or less still Grey Warden (as much as Anders) it is very possible that the wardens will have to choose a side despite their unpolitical attitude. They might even be blamed for Anders deed and backed into an adversarial corner by the templars ("You harbored an abomination! The murderer of Grand Cleric Elthina and obviously a Bloodmage!" (I know he is not, but I doubt they would care...)

So yeah, the mages are supported, but there is a lot of old prejudice to fight against. The future will tell, if they will ever get rid of their "underdog"-status.

[Dave of Canada]

Just got the vibe that everybody is essentially leaping to the defense of the mages or trying to help them, it seems like the side of people we've met in the games and the people involved in the conflict that there isn't much for the Templar. Though they've got the prejudices to deal with, I feel the Divine going around saying "Mages aren't bad, don't help the renegade Templar" would put a lot of people at ease.

One thing I'd like to see more down the road, though I might be completely wrong in this line of thought as I haven't read the book, is something where we hear more about people supporting the Renegade Templar side of things.

[Gervaise]

The mage templar conflict does not have to be the major plot driver of DA3 but the fact that the Circles are no more and the templars have split from the Chantry is important. The novel also makes it clear that there is a major civil war in Orlais and essentially the empire is crumbling. In other words all the institutions that gave stability in Thedas have either gone altogether or nearly so. This leaves a power vacuum waiting to be filled and there are any number of candidates who might step forward and take advantage of the situation.

If you think about it, this resembles the situation just over 1,000 years before, when following the First Blight, the Tevinter Imperium was breaking apart and the Southern Barbarians took advantage of the situation. Then following Andraste's death (and Maferath's) their descendants started fighting for control of their legacy and out of that chaos came Orlais and the Chantry.

The developers have already revealed that DA3 is likely to involve much of southern Thedas, which includes Orlais, Nevarra, the Freemarches and Ferelden. There are two major possibilities for who might present the main threat in DA3 - Corypheus and the Qunari. There has been enough build up of the situation with regard to the Qunari and that they are just waiting for the appropriate moment to strike. At the close of DA2 the Arishok has been dead (if you killed him) for 5 years, probably sufficient time for the new Arishok to have settled into his role. They have sleeper cells spread throughout Thedas, in particular among the Alienage elves. The main defence against them in the past was the Circle mages controlled by the Chantry. Also with the Templars gone from Kirkwall, the city guard would be ill equipped to deal with a major invasion. In fact, in Antiva the crows also seem to be in turmoil. With the major powerbase of Orlais in disorder and the Circles gone, if that wasn't the appropriate time to strike, I don't know what is.

Alternatively, we never discovered who Flemeth had her appointment with but she did predict the forthcoming chaos and that it would herald great change. May be she will feature more prominently in the events to come. The main thing is that virtually anything is possible because all the institutions and ruling factions we learnt about in the first two games are in meltdown.

[Gervaise]

With regard to the Calling, the Taint and the Music, there are two seemingly significant references in the book (although may be I am reading too much into them).

The first is at the end of the Fade sequence, when Wynne defeats the demon, there is tremendous light that destroys it together with music which her companion Adrian hears and both "welcomes and fears it".
The second is when Evangeline described being brought back from death and that Wynne sent "a golden light to bring me back".

Now I could be wrong here but golden light and music are both associated with the Maker and magic was the Maker's gift, so it makes sense that lyrium, which is the raw stuff of magic, would have its own song. Likewise, corrupted lyrium, like corrupted archdemons, also gives off a song but one that is only heard by those similarly corrupted. However, it is also possible that spirits/demons can hear both. There are definitely a few loose ends to be tidied up/clarified at some point in the future but I guess that was intentional.

[Dave of Canada]

Always felt that Flemeth's appointment was the one she had with the Warden where he/she decides to kill/spare her.

[Gervaise]

No, this takes place after you resurrect her and the Blight has ended. She could be referring to a showdown with Morrigan but that seems unlikely bearing in mind what happens in Witch Hunt. I wondered if she was anticipating the freeing of Corypheus, which would explain why she really helped Hawke. However, it could have been someone else entirely but it is one loose end from DA2 that is never explained and thus logically may form an important part of some future game.

[Wulfram]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Always felt that Flemeth's appointment was the one she had with the Warden where he/she decides to kill/spare her.

She must of been pissed off when my Elf Mage didn't show.

[Silfren]

I just finished the book a couple hours ago. Funnily enough, the first thing I actually noticed was that we are right back to "is it Rite or Right" for the whole Rite/Right of Annulment argument.

Yes, I'm well aware that Gaider has gone on record as stating it's Right of Annulment, and that makes sense, as it involves ordinary slaughter, no rite of any sort. But, at least in the ebook form, the first occurrence of the phrase is "Rite." That amused me far more than it should have.

The revelation that the Rite of Tranquility can be reversed was my favorite reveal, although my biggest question remains whether or not this Rite can be performed on a non-mage. Stands to reason that it can, since even non-mages can still access the Fade, just not while conscious. I'm eager to see whether Gaider will ever have cause to address this.

I held my breath at the end, fully expecting Rhys to take Wynne's original position. I was thrilled that he chose to fight instead.

I'm almost certain now that the next game will take place in Orlais. I've said all along that I thought DA2 was not so much a sequel to Origins as a prequel to the next one. I think this is why we had zero choice on any of the outcomes: Bioware needed a very specific background in place for whatever DA3 will be.

Asunder was my favorite of Gaider's novels, thus far, although that's possibly because neither Stolen Throne or Calling really set the stage for anything, merely filling in holes for an existing story. But the events of Asunder give me hope for DA3.

[Silfren]

Ryo Bondiko wrote...

Well, the book shows the beginning of a big conflict. There definately is support for the mages. We already knew that Alistair did loosen the leash in Fereldan, and, as I already hinted, if Alistair learns who his mother is, we can expect to see Fereldan supporting the mage side.
Then there is the Divine who seems to favor a peaceful coexistence with mages by reforming the Circle, but does not shy away from secretly tricking her fellow templars and seekers to get that end.
After the templars turned directly against her it is likely that she has to support the mages to save her very own life. At least the Lord Seeker seemed to hope for a new and "wiser" Divine on the throne, and had he survived, it is likely that Justina would have been in danger.
Even Leliana can only kill so many assassins and having both the templars and mages at the throat of the Chantry is too much.
Also, with Fiona being Grand Enchanter and more or less still Grey Warden (as much as Anders) it is very possible that the wardens will have to choose a side despite their unpolitical attitude. They might even be blamed for Anders deed and backed into an adversarial corner by the templars ("You harbored an abomination! The murderer of Grand Cleric Elthina and obviously a Bloodmage!" (I know he is not, but I doubt they would care...)

So yeah, the mages are supported, but there is a lot of old prejudice to fight against. The future will tell, if they will ever get rid of their "underdog"-status.

One point:  It is absolutely NOT a given that Fiona is Alistair's mother.  There's as much evidence AGAINST this theory as there is in favor, enough so that neither camp can claim anything as absolute.  Gaider and Bioware did this deliberately.  So there's no reason at all to make any assumptions about Alistairs involvement as far as Fiona is concerned.  Hell, even if Fiona were his mother, even that wouldn't mean that either Fiona or Alistair had any way of knowing themselves for certain.  Fiona couldn't be sure that Maric didn't have affairs with any other women, after all.

I don't actually think Fiona is still with the Grey Wardens.  The book didn't say anything explicitly, but I was left with the impression she had walked away from the Wardens for good, and the book had me wondering if it was anything to do with the end of The Calling--the thing about her being free of the taint.  It could perhaps mean she literally is no longer a Warden.  After all, it's the taint that leads to the Calling, as well as what gives Wardens their ability to sense darkspawn.  I don't think Fiona would have been allowed to just leave the Grey Wardens, otherwise.

[Silfren]

Can't seem to edit my previous post to add this:

One other thing I'm curious about is the fact that Cole was able to hear the call of the Archdemon while Wynne and company were in the Fade. Hearing the "song" is a trait of the darkspawn, Grey Wardens in their Calling, and corrupted ghouls (people who don't immediately die from being tainted, only to slowly be corrupted instead). There also seems to be a connection to lyrium (witness Varric's brother after being corrupted by the lyrium statue).

Cole seems to be a spirit, but he could hear the song, too. What's that about?

[Jessihatt]

I was quite sad that "Cole" wasn't real and just a spirit who took on the form of Cole 
I liked him. And Pharamond <3

I much preferred Fiona in The Calling too, she seemed to be throwing caution to the wind in Asunder -- not that she didn't before but it seemed pretty foolish when surrounded by so many templars.

In DA2, I'm 100% behind the mages and I liked that it wasn't so black and white in Asunder.
Hopefully DA3 will follow in it's footsteps!

[Brockololly]

Ryo Bondiko wrote...
Also, with Fiona being Grand Enchanter and more or less still Grey Warden (as much as Anders) it is very possible that the wardens will have to choose a side despite their unpolitical attitude. 

I haven't read the book, but isn't it a big point in The Calling that Fiona no longer carries the Taint? Thus freeing her from the Wardens, unlike Anders, whose body still carries the Taint. So Fiona truly isn't a Warden anymore, since her blood was seemingly ridden of the Taint in The Calling.

Dave of Canada wrote...

Just got the vibe that everybody  is essentially leaping to the defense of the mages or trying to help
them, it seems like the side of people we've met in the games and the  people involved in the conflict that there isn't much for the Templar.  Though they've got the prejudices to deal with, I feel the Divine going  around saying "Mages aren't bad, don't help the renegade Templar" would  put a lot of people at ease.

One thing I'd like to see more down  the road, though I might be completely wrong in this line of thought as I haven't read the book, is something where we hear more about people  supporting the Renegade Templar side of things.

Thats my impression too, at least as the book (seems to) presents things.

Just in how all of the protagonists of the book are sympathetic to the mages or are mages themselves. And how it seems most of the old characters showing up like Leliana or Wynne or Shale are sympathetic or at least aiding the mages. Plus, how the new characters are mages, not to mention old book characters like Fiona and even this Evangeline character seems to end up being saved by Wynne and basically ends up supporting the mages, despite being a Templar. It just seems like the book sort of stacks all the familiar faces and the main protagonists on the mage side while the Templars are mostly represented by this Lord Seeker guy who ends up going all extremist, with little in the way of a supporting cast advocating his view.

I'll just be disappointed in the future if it ends up being a clear cut MAGE V. TEMPLAR war for FREEEEDOM. I want more factions that maybe are composed of mages and non mages, some factions that are total extremists and some that are more moderate with varying motivations. I don't just want all mages and mage buddies lined up on one side and all Templars/Mage Haters on the other. Thats more generic than fighting the Blight.

Gervaise wrote...
Alternatively, we never discovered who Flemeth had
her appointment with but she did predict the forthcoming chaos and that
it would herald great change. May be she will feature more prominently
in the events to come. The main thing is that virtually anything is
possible because all the institutions and ruling factions we learnt
about in the first two games are in meltdown.

Its pretty obvious Flemeth is referring to the Warden when she makes the point on having her appointment. Since that occurs in the beginning when the Blight was still happening.

As for everything getting knocked over and the world in turmoil...I'm not necessarily crazy about that, only because we haven't even seen more than a sliver of Thedas. So for all we know, we'll never see the version of Orlais thats been built up so far if they have some big war ripping it up or we'll never see Tevinter with the mages if by the time the games get there they have the Qunari running them over. I wish they'd slow down a little bit and explore the world more before tearing everything up before we've even seen any of it.

Modifié par Brockololly, 21 décembre 2011 - 10:50 .