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[Satanicponies]

The blight is over before you "resurrect" Flemeth, as the blight lasted 1 year and during that year Hawke was still working off debt for the entrance in the city. The quest happens after being released from servitude, aka after a year. Therefore, the appointment cant be with the warden.

[WhiteKnyght]

Satanicponies wrote...

The blight is over before you "resurrect" Flemeth, as the blight lasted 1 year and during that year Hawke was still working off debt for the entrance in the city. The quest happens after being released from servitude, aka after a year. Therefore, the appointment cant be with the warden.

Your perception of time is messed up. Her appointment was before her resurrection at Sundermount, not after. She even uses past tense when speaking of it afterward.

The reason she had Hawke deliver the amulet was because she anticipated that one way or another, she would be killed and needed a backup of herself put in the right hands.

In reality, an 'appointment' was just an excuse to sate Hawke's curiosity.

[Satanicponies]

ah, my mistake then.

[Silfren]

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that's exactly what Flemeth's appointment was. Yes, it's a likely candidate, but even so, I wouldn't put it past Flemeth to be doing...something, behind the scenes, while the rest of us are distracted with Blights and Champions and magi rebellions. Her words are ambiguous enough to strongly suggest Bioware wrote it that way on purpose.

[Augustei]

Man if Orlais is crumbling I hope that a Quanari invasion does happen and that it severely weakens Northern Thedas and Nevarra but they end up winning again.. But conveniently Ferelden finds it strength outweighing the other nations and it steps up as the new superpower.. Man that'd be freakin' sweet =D

[Gervaise]

The problems in Orlais will be a blessing in disguise to Ferelden as King Alistair admits the Blight left them severely weakened and thus still at risk should Orlais have siezed the initiative to attack. However, it would take years for them even to recover enough to feel safe from invasion, let alone become a superpower. If the Qunari attacked, the best they could hope for would be to withstand invasion, nothing more.

The problem is that the Qunari would probably not be too bothered with Ferelden. The Freemarches are known as the bread basket of southern Thedas. If they succeeded in conquering this area, they could effectively control the food supply, particularly if they took over the more fertile parts of Orlais as well. This would allow them to simultaneously starve oppostion armies and supply their own troops. Once firmly established in the area, it would be very difficult to shift them and the best the smaller nations could hope for would be to establish a truce that allowed them a degree of autonomy.

I am hopeful that the mages, who are an organised group with a strong leader, would realise just how bad it would be for them if the Qunari took over and would therefore move to counter any such action without being asked. However, it is possible that making them aware of the threat and recruiting them might well be a plot quest in DA3 but then that might hold true whoever or whatever the main danger is.

[Ulicus]

Silfren wrote...

The revelation that the Rite of Tranquility can be reversed was my favorite reveal, although my biggest question remains whether or not this Rite can be performed on a non-mage. Stands to reason that it can, since even non-mages can still access the Fade, just not while conscious. I'm eager to see whether Gaider will ever have cause to address this.

Well, we already know non-mages can be forcibly possessed by demons and I'm not sure why a ritual that restores one's connection to the Fade would be of any use to a mundane whose connection to the Fade was already present.

Silfren wrote...

Asunder was my favorite of Gaider's novels, thus far, although
that's possibly because neither Stolen Throne or Calling really set the
stage for anything, merely filling in holes for an existing story. But
the events of Asunder give me hope for DA3.

The Stolen Throne tells the most interesting story, I think, but Asunder's definitely the best written novel Gaider's done so far. I just hope we start seeing some of these characters making an appearance in the games.

Especially if Evangeline develops into a spirit warrior.

[Heimdall]

I was a little disappointed that the Lord Seeker was killed (Apparently anyway, I guess there is some remaining possibility that he's alive, but not likely). I was expecting him to be an important Antagonist in DA3. He was fanatical, but of all them he wasn't pure unreasoning hatred. I mean, he was unreasonable but given his past it's easy to see why he thought the way he did. He's seen Mages use calls for freedom to mask a grab for power before.

I'm now fairly certain the Templar assault on the mages hinted at in the last part of the book will be the Ostagar of DA3. That is, it will be the point where the protagonist's destiny takes an unexpected turn (Who knows what ancient secrets lurk beneath abandoned Tervinter fortresses anyway?) and also where the protagonist's story merges, on the off chance (Though I still have my hopes) origins are reintroduced.

I'm not really concerned about the war being too black and white. I'm sure the mages are going to splinter into factions, with one being filled with blood mages. Hopefully led by Adrian, so I get the chance to kill her. My congratulations to Mr. Gaider on making a character I so utterly despise. She's like Anders at his Vengeance possessed worst without the excuse of being an insane abomination.  As for the Templars, I'm expecting they'll have their moderates, Templars that would rather peacefully return to a, somewhat, reformed Circle System.

I'm also anticipating either Rhys or Evangeline as a companion in DA3, though probably not both.  I am wondering what Leliana will do.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 22 décembre 2011 - 02:34 .

[Silfren]

Ulicus wrote...

Silfren wrote...

The revelation that the Rite of Tranquility can be reversed was my favorite reveal, although my biggest question remains whether or not this Rite can be performed on a non-mage. Stands to reason that it can, since even non-mages can still access the Fade, just not while conscious. I'm eager to see whether Gaider will ever have cause to address this.

Well, we already know non-mages can be forcibly possessed by demons and I'm not sure why a ritual that restores one's connection to the Fade would be of any use to a mundane whose connection to the Fade was already present.

ROFL.  Obviously there's no point in trying to restore a Fade connection where it was never severed.  I was saying I want to see whether the Rite of Tranquility can be performed on a non-mage to turn them into a Tranquil.  It's been something I've wondered since my first run-through of the Mage Origin for the first Dragon Age. 

Then again I'm still waiting to learn where a Templar's abilities come from, since lyrium isn't required for them, and supposedly templar abilities aren't a form of magic.

Modifié par Silfren, 22 décembre 2011 - 07:49 .

[TEWR]

Well, Alistair says the Chantry wouldn't see it that way. That doesn't mean they actually aren't

Personally I see them and the Spirit Warrior schools of training being linked and definitely magic.

[monte302]

Lord Aesir wrote...

I was a little disappointed that the Lord Seeker was killed (Apparently anyway, I guess there is some remaining possibility that he's alive, but not likely). I was expecting him to be an important Antagonist in DA3. He was fanatical, but of all them he wasn't pure unreasoning hatred. I mean, he was unreasonable but given his past it's easy to see why he thought the way he did. He's seen Mages use calls for freedom to mask a grab for power before.

I'm now fairly certain the Templar assault on the mages hinted at in the last part of the book will be the Ostagar of DA3. That is, it will be the point where the protagonist's destiny takes an unexpected turn (Who knows what ancient secrets lurk beneath abandoned Tervinter fortresses anyway?) and also where the protagonist's story merges, on the off chance (Though I still have my hopes) origins are reintroduced.

Actually from what I read it felt like there are quite a few
high ranking member of the templar order who might support mages or remain
loyal to the chantry (knight-commander of white spire and knight-captain Cullen
come to mind), but they were kept in check via fear and intimidation by Lord
Seeker. So him dying is a must if you actually want some long conflict and a
setting for DA3. Lord Seeker truly believed that he would crush the mages in
their fortress and I do too, but with him gone and no one else able to hold
others in check, they would splinter and now the force might not be able to
actually attack the fortress. Maybe they won't march at all to it while trying
to elect new Lord Seeker. Maybe that's why we see Seekers assisting Divine at the
end of DA2

Modifié par monte302, 22 décembre 2011 - 08:58 .

[Augustei]

Is it possible to get the Ebook anywhere besides itunes?

[RagingCyclone]

Just finished the book (been avoiding this thread for quite some time)...I haven't read up on this thread yet, but am I the only one that felt the ending was rushed? I'll use percentages since that is how my Kindle is set up, but the pacing was good until about 78% and then it was a flurry of stuff with little extrapolation and came off...to me...as simplistic. Like where did Leliana come from for the jail-break? Why so quick on Cole's realization...and how did the Lord Seeker really know what Cole was? Yes he was from Tevinter, but that is what I mean by simplistic in scope from my vantage as a reader. Overall I think the book is good for the first 80 to 85%...the ending just seemed off to me. Just my thoughts anyway.

[Silfren]

XxDeonxX wrote...

Is it possible to get the Ebook anywhere besides itunes?

Barnes & Noble is where I bought mine, as a NookBook.  Amazon sells it, too, I'm sure, for the Kindle.  

[Silfren]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Well, Alistair says the Chantry wouldn't see it that way. That doesn't mean they actually aren't

Personally I see them and the Spirit Warrior schools of training being linked and definitely magic.

Well, Alistair does say that, yes, but there's other factors to consider besides what he has to say on the subject.  Templars are not mages.  So where does their power come from? 

[Obsidian Gryphon]

The templars and seekers seem to have everything on their side but I forgot they are handicapped in one important aspect; lyrium. What say the mages find a way to starve them of the lyrium? The templars and seekers would suffer really bad withdrawal effects I should think.   And the mages can't do the greater magics without lyrium although that seem only to serve to enter the Fade.

Quick, roll out a RTS Bioware! Resource element - lyrium.   Orzamar / Deep Roads is the battlefield with the 3rd party darkspawn on no one's side.

"This ons says ... you're all meat!"

Modifié par Obsidian Gryphon, 23 décembre 2011 - 04:17 .

[Heimdall]

Obsidian Gryphon wrote...

The templars and seekers seem to have everything on their side but I forgot they are handicapped in one important aspect; lyrium. What say the mages find a way to starve them of the lyrium? The templars and seekers would suffer really bad withdrawal effects I should think.   And the mages can't do the greater magics without lyrium although that seem only to serve to enter the Fade.

Quick, roll out a RTS Bioware! Resource element - lyrium.   Orzamar / Deep Roads is the battlefield with the 3rd party darkspawn on no one's side.

"This ons says ... you're all meat!"

Actually, as another poster noted, the loss of the lord seeker leaves the knight commanders leadersless and divided.  So I'd say the odds are a bit more evened out.  The Lyrium trade will probably become a focus point of the struggle.  The Mages want it for magic and enchanting while the Templars want it to sooth their addiction.

[Dave of Canada]

So, let me get this straight.

• The Seekers are split in two, a bunch supporting the Divine and a bunch supporting the Lord Seeker.
• The Templar split in two, a bunch (and from what I gather, the Knight-Vigilant) supporting the Divine and a bunch supporting the Lord Seeker.
• The Divine (essentially the Chantry) wishes to assist the mages.
• Alistair has shown support for the mages by struggling against the Templar.
• The Tranquil can be cured.
• Orlais has fallen apart.
  
  So in the end, this means:
• Mages have a decent backing behind them.
• Templar are leaderless after the death fo the Lord Seeker.
• Templar don't have much backing.
• Rite of Tranquility isn't very viable anymore.
• Mages will have difficulty sustaining Circle Towers without the Tranquil to support them.
• Templar barely have any resources to sustain a war.
• Orlais is defenseless.

Am I right? Sounds to me that within one novel, they've established a lot of changes (which will confuse the hell out of the player if it's not fully explained in Dragon Age 3) and that they've managed to flip the renegade Templar faction into the underdog. Not that surprising though with all the hints of mage things down the line.

[megski]

To answer a couple of the Questions I saw:

-The characters in the book discover that the rite can be reversed. Quite a few key players from different circles around Thedas are invited to a meeting to discuss the rite reversal. Since the college was disbanded, the mages haven't had a chance to vote on ANY issues related to them. Instead of using this meeting to discuss the matter at hand, they decide to call the vote to separate or stay part of the chantry. This is why all the circles rebel at once. The meeting does get interrupted, but is continued at a later time. This later time is when the fraternities get to place their vote and rebel together.

-Shale is still a golem

My take on the book:
Everything was kind of boring to me, I'll admit, up until the meeting near the end. With that being said, I do have the mentality of a dwarf when it comes to mages. Pfft magic. The only character I liked up until that point was Wynne. It irritated me (mostly Adrian) that she and Rhys constantly wanted to argue about freedom, and acted like 40 year old children. I say they acted like children because it seemed for the longest time that they couldn't realize that Wynne had been through a great deal of the same struggles, persevered and EARNED what little freedom she had. It took me a while to like Evangeline because she was so wishy-washy throughout their journey.

It was never really mentioned in the book, kind of, because their friendship ended, but I think Adrian really held Rhys back and kept him limited on his views. I think she kept him from maturing like he needed to. When I first started reading the book, I thought Adrian was going to be my favorite character, but I ended up disliking her the most, especially after she kills the elf-mage. She was filed under 'crazy mage' at that point. Come on, the DEMON couldn't even kill that guy. Once Rhys moved away from her, I thought he really grew as a character, and I really started to like him. Evangeline, has lots of balls. Big ones. The only templar in the whole white spire to stand up to all the rest and damn the consequences. She had a hard time getting there, but when she did I adored her for it. Since Wynne saved Evangeline by dying, I was able to forgive Wynne's death.

My favorite part of the book:
When they're riding along on their journey and really begin notice something isn't right within the empire. Wynne happens to know a little bit about this, and tells everyone. They pretty much ask her why she's so uncaring about it, and she says, "cuz I'm Ferelden ****es!" Not really, but kind of. I'm paraphrasing, ok?

Oh and too, when Fiona says eff the divine! But that isn't the best part, everyone gasps and she's like, 'no, I mean, I'm sure she's a nice person and all' lol.

That's it for now I guess.

[megski]

I do also want to point out, that in the book there is obvious templar corruption present. It isn't like Meredith where you simply get the impression, just no valid proof. The lord seeker asks Evangeline, as the mage's templar escort, to lie several times, even before completing the mission at hand. In other words, before he even knows what is going on, before they even get started, he asks Evangeline to murder the mages she is traveling with, and wants her to sabotage as much as she can along the way. The divine even wants to help reform and is listening more to the mages than anyone, but she hasn't made a decision on if she is even going to follow through. Without her even deciding anything, the lord seeker (the epilogue) decides to not discuss anything with her or the chantry, and proclaims that he and the rest of the templar order are separating from the chantry.

ETA:  And I do want to point out too that the mages didn't necessarily break away from the chantry, but the circle.  Without the Templars, the chantry is left undefended.  I'm not sure if breaking away from the circle also means the chantry too.  

Modifié par megski, 23 décembre 2011 - 11:06 .

[Maria13]

Reached chapter 7 liking this so far, more than the other two in fact, it just resonates with me a bit more, concentrates on mages and templars and the parts of the lore that stir my interest. And it has Wynne FTW, Wynne as a heroine... Marvellous.

@megski speed read your comments 'cause not over anxious to get spoilt but I think the reason Rhys and Adrian behave like children is 'cause in a manner of speaking they ARE... They've never lived in the real world just in the tower and in their heads so their preoccupations aren't really grounded yet...

[Gervaise]

There are one or two points that need clarifying.

First, the Divine does not support the notion of total freedom for mages - what she was intially trying to do was establish if a mage could be stripped of their magical power without making them tranquil and that if the rite could be reversed. She got the answer to the second part but the response the the first part was negative. However, Rhys did say that with greater investigation may be a way could be found. The Divine had conceded that it was not right to call on the mages for aid when you need them and lock them up when you don't. However, the fact that she was examing the use of the Rite of Tranquility suggests that she does still feel there is a need to have some way of controlling the danger mages pose, both from the point of view of demon possession and the abuse of power through blood magic.

Second, the mages voted the way they did at the end because they were smart enough to realise that it didn't matter what the Divine did, they were fighting 1,000 years of negative teaching and the leadership of a major hostile army, which meant that if they opted for loyalty to the Circle system, the likelihood was they would either be signing their death warrant, be tranquilised or locked up indefinitely, with each Circle isolated from the other.

The Divine might be personally sympathetic towards the mages but has a major problem with regard to public perception of mages, which is not due solely to Chantry teaching. Justina's election to Divine was a near run thing. When word gets out, it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that other regional Chantries will support the templar position on the matter. She has already had to survive one assassination attempt and more may follow if people start to view her as a heretic or alternatively think her mind is being controlled by blood mages. As the Lord Seeker put it, without the templars the chantry hierachy are just a bunch of old women with no teeth. At the end of DA2 it is clear that the Divine still has some people she can call upon to enforce her will but clearly not enough to be truly effective otherwise she would not have to call upon people like Hawke to mediate. Both templars and mages have effectively sidelined the Chantry.

Just because the Lord Seeker may have been killed, does not necessarily mean the next person to take over will not have similar views or command similar loyalty. If he has been killed and it is apparent it was done by a mage, this is hardly likely to weaken the feeling against them. The lyrium supply is an issue but we have been shown numerous instances of how the Chantry's apparent monopoly on the surface trade could be circumvented. Even Evangeline anticipated calling upon the aid of smugglers she once used to crack down on, so I imagine obtaining supplies is not going to be a major issue for either side. However, the templars have the advantage over the mages with regard to obtaining ordinary supplies of food, etc, so long as they do nothing to harm the public perception of them as defenders against the tyranny of magic.

At the end of the book, a large number of mages are holed up in the old fortress, which though a good defensive position, it is unclear how long they could survive a lengthy siege. Even so, being confined in a fortress is very little different from being confined in a Circle Tower, so if they wish to be truly free, at some point they are going to have to branch out. It is unclear at the end of DA2 what the current situation is but presumably the mages at still a cohesive enough group that it is possible to negotiate with them collectively.

[Augustei]

I really hope they put the Lord Seeker in a DA2 dlc if they are going to kill him off.. since I really want to meet him. Him and Fenris would have plenty to discuss no doubt... Heck they might even know each other somehow =D

Also so for anyone thats read the book, Is the Knight-Vigilant still alive? and is he supporting the Mages stance or the Lord Seekers?

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 23 décembre 2011 - 03:52 .

[Gervaise]

Oddly enough there was no mention of a Knight-Vigilant. There was a Knight Commander of the White Spire who had been removed from office by the Lord Seeker. If the position of KC of the White Spire was also KV of the templar order, then that is what happened to him. Otherwise I have no idea but I suppose there is also the possibility that the role ov KV and head Seeker had been combined into one role of Lord Seeker. May be someone from the devs will clarify this.

[Augustei]

Silfren wrote...

XxDeonxX wrote...

Is it possible to get the Ebook anywhere besides itunes?

Barnes & Noble is where I bought mine, as a NookBook.  Amazon sells it, too, I'm sure, for the Kindle.  

Could i read it on my computer? is it like a pdf or something? I must confess I have no idea what a Nook Book is lol

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 23 décembre 2011 - 07:02 .