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[SkittlesKat96]

Anyone find it weird that they kind of downplayed Hawke a bit with this novel? (At least from the things I've been hearing.)

You'd think that after some of the internet backlash about DA 2 they would want to do the opposite... O.o

Regardless though they gave a little more background and plausibility to the Circles rebelling which is good and maybe it will actually appease the people who complain about Hawke's significance (not saying Hawke isn't significant but I think a lot of people have been irritated at Bioware's marketing of the Champion before the game was released)

Modifié par SkittlesKat96, 27 décembre 2011 - 09:25 .

[Maria13]

Still reading...

A quick aside mentions Brother Genetivi went mad... Does this mean that if you don't kill him no-one really believes Andraste's ashes have been discovered?

[Gervaise]

I must have missed the bit about Brother Genetivi - will need to go back and check this out - which page?

As for Cole I have been puzzling about him as well. It is clear there is some sort of spirit involved and at the end it says about being with him until it was all over, suggesting that Cole died and the spirit either occupied his corpse or took on some sort of facimile of his appearance, together with his memories. When Cole/spirit goes to people who are brought in and put in the dungeon, he says he sensed when they were brought in and that they would be able to see him, just as it "heard" the cries of the dying Cole. It doesn't appear to be a demon, certainly not one of those which have been listed in the past, but could well be a spirit of an ambiguous emotion that can be regarded as either benign or bad. It also seemed unable to act against the templars in the past but by the end of the book had found the necessary strength. Throughout the story the Cole/spirit seems to be fighting an underlying malignancy. So I assume it was the memory of the true Cole that kept the spirit in check but once the Lord Seeker had revealed this as a sham, the malign spirit took hold. So I have been playing around with emotions like fear, loss of faith, despair but none of them really seem to fit with the dual aspect demonstrated in the book. Any other suggestions?

[Blacklash93]

Like I said before, I'd think Cole using blood magic's mind manipulation abilities to perform all his tricks points to him being a confused demon. I don't believe good spirits know blood magic.

[TheJediSaint]

PurebredCorn wrote...

What the heck is Cole? I get that he's a demon, but what kind of demon is he?

It's pretty clear that Cole is a spirit, though not necessarily a demon.  If I was to take a stab at what he is, I would say that he was a spirit of compassion corrupted by (edit: the real) Cole's suffering, much the same way Justice was corrupted by Ander's anger.  Granted, I am only making a marginally educated guess that shouldn't be taken seriously.


In regards to the book itself, I thought it was a pretty good read.  I have to say that I was very sad to see Wynne die, she's one of my all time favorite characters from Bioware.  I think David Gaider handled her death very well, but I think that the world of Dragon Age is going to be a darker place without one of it's few unquestionably good characters.

Modifié par TheJediSaint, 27 décembre 2011 - 07:29 .

[Ryo Bondiko]

Indeed "merciful" was what I thought about Cole as well. Also, he said he could sense when someone wanted to die and only then could they see him. So maybe a Spirit of Mercy it is?
But then the question remains, why Rhys could see him all the time, he had no deathwish that I would have noticed.
Also the fact that he was alegedly coporal (as Rhys claimed), but then simply dissolved, when the Lord Seeker said he wasn't real. He can't have been an abomination or the possessed corpse of the actual Cole. Hmm... he really is a big riddle...

[RagingCyclone]

Cole's situation, especially at the end, is why I felt the last 15% felt rushed. Why was Cole not aware of what he was while in the Fade, but all of a sudden the Litany of Adralla wakes him up to what he is? That itself led to too many questions for me...I have no real idea what Cole is or how he really existed in the world. The blinking from existence was just a part that for me was a departure from what the buildup was.

[Pacifien]

It was a good read, a nice book to break in my new Kindle that I got for Christmas.

I found Cole the most interesting aspect of the book, and I found myself as confused as Rhys as to whether or not Cole was human or spirit at times. If nothing else, it shows that Lambert, however deep his hatred of mages will go, is a very good templar considering he never once seemed to waiver on the possibility of what Cole could be. And I liked his use of the Litany to prove it. But anyway, I like the idea of Cole as a Spirit of Mercy. Like Justice, the concept of Mercy is an easy one to muddle when applied to real world situations.

I like and am annoyed at the ambiguity of the mage rebellion. They rebel because they feel anything is better, but from the looks of it, none of them have much of an idea of what will replace the Circle of Magi. Unlike the Tevinter Imperium, where the mages managed to wrestle control over the templars and Chantry, the mages of the rest of Thedas only managed to weaken the Chantry and make enemies of the templars.

Anyway, that ambiguity annoys me, so it will be nice when Dragon Age 3 rolls around and the Qunari wipe them all out.

I mean, it will be nice when Dragon Age 3 rolls around and Flemeth wipes them all out.

I mean, it will be nice when Dragon Age 3 rolls around and you play Andraste-incarnate and destroy magic forever.

I mean, it will be nice when the griffons come back.

[TheJediSaint]

Yes, Mr. Gaider, why no Griffons?

[Maria13]

Gervaise wrote...

I must have missed the bit about Brother Genetivi - will need to go back and check this out - which page?

p320

Another thing, if Celene is still alive she must be somewhere near the Ferelden boarder/Orzammar (there's a rumour she's in Jader) any chance she'll be applying for asylum to King Alistair, the dwarven monarch???

[ddv.rsa]

Maria13 wrote...

Gervaise wrote...

I must have missed the bit about Brother Genetivi - will need to go back and check this out - which page?

p320

Another thing, if Celene is still alive she must be somewhere near the Ferelden boarder/Orzammar (there's a rumour she's in Jader) any chance she'll be applying for asylum to King Alistair, the dwarven monarch???

Sorry, what? Alistair? The dwarven monarch?

[ananna21]

Maria13 Most likely meant she would either seek asylum from either  the Ferelden monarch or whoever is the king of Orzammar. Two totally different people.
Good read with a good deal of likeable characters. Adrian was the only character I disliked. I would  love too see her respond to the question. If freed what would you do with your freedom? She would most likely be totally lost if freedom was just handed to her. Good thing Rhys distanced himself from her too see the big picture on the state of the world and too see that the plight of other matter as well. Wynne died in a way that was fitting to nature I hope to see Rhys in future installments of the series.  What is Rhys hair color though? I just recall that his beard was starting to grey.

Modifié par ananna21, 27 décembre 2011 - 09:10 .

[congealeddgtllvr]

PurebredCorn wrote...

Gervaise wrote...

So I have been playing around with emotions like fear, loss of faith, despair but none of them really seem to fit with the dual aspect demonstrated in the book. Any other suggestions?

Hope and Despair would be opposing emotions. But I'm not sure if it fits.

This is pure speculation, but what about "loneliness"?  That's what Cole is described as feeling over and over  and over again.  That's his biggest fear, being forgotten and alone.  

But isn't loneliness just a form of desire?  So maybe he's just a really really unusual desire demon.  

[megski]

ananna21 wrote...

Maria13 Most likely meant she would either seek asylum from either  the Ferelden monarch or whoever is the king of Orzammar. Two totally different people.
Good read with a good deal of likeable characters. Adrian[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/pinched.png[/smilie] was the only character I disliked. I would  love too see her respond to the question. If freed what would you do with your freedom? She would most likely be totally lost if freedom was just handed to her. GOod thing Rhys distanced himself fro mher too see the big picture on the state of the world and too see that the plight of other matter as well. Wynne died in a way that was fitting to nature I hope to see Rhys in future installments of the series. 

I didn't like her either.  I mentioned it before, but for the most part, she and Rhys acted like they had no common sense at all.  Especially the way Adrian constantly bickered and wouldn't try at all to see anything other than her own opinion.  I know that they were raised in the circle and sheltered, but come on, they're almost 40 years old.  Rhys changed for the better, and Adrian just showed herself to be cruel and selfish.  I completely agree, Rhys started to become likeable to me when he began distancing himself from Adrian.  

[megski]

congealeddgtllvr wrote...

PurebredCorn wrote...

Gervaise wrote...

So I have been playing around with emotions like fear, loss of faith, despair but none of them really seem to fit with the dual aspect demonstrated in the book. Any other suggestions?

Hope and Despair would be opposing emotions. But I'm not sure if it fits.

This is pure speculation, but what about "loneliness"?  That's what Cole is described as feeling over and over  and over again.  That's his biggest fear, being forgotten and alone.  

But isn't loneliness just a form of desire?  So maybe he's just a really really unusual desire demon.  

I think that maybe we were supposed to pick up on that, because it did mention quite often his fear of lonliness, or being completely alone.  

[congealeddgtllvr]

Glad I'm not the only one who noticed that.

[megski]

I'm also seeing a lot of good theories about Cole. I think that he is some kind of strange desire demon is the best. But I'm still thinking that the demon's desires are met, and it doesn't desire anything more than to exist outside of the fade in the mortal world, 'to be real'. I however don't think that the thing that exists inside of Cole is a spirit, I am almost certain that it has to be a demon. I'm also curious about how Cole can summon the demon's power, (the mind control) but can resist the demon completely taking control of him. When I went back and reread the description of the litany, it said it's purpose is to break a mind control spell summoned by a blood mage. I don't think Cole is a blood mage, I think this is probably another characteristic that points to a desire demon. Remember the templar in the circle in Origins? He thought he was protecting his family from bandits, via the desire demon's influence.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Is there any further description of the Litany or how it's used in the book?

In Origins it was useless if the blood magic was already in effect. The Litany was a prevention method, not a cure.

[megski]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Is there any further description of the Litany or how it's used in the book?

In Origins it was useless if the blood magic was already in effect. The Litany was a prevention method, not a cure.

No, just the same description from Origins. I think in the book Cole was conjuring his spell and it was interrupted by the lord seeker using it.  He was using mind control to make himself and Rhys invisible.  

[jlb524]

I got the impression that the spell was in effect but Cole had to sustain it through willpower...the Litany interrupted that.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Hm, thanks. I might need to see the passage for myself.

Although...invisibility now? I can't help wondering if Blood Magic is the new Force. "We are not the mages you're looking for." *finger-thwip*

That'd explain all the mages running loose around Kirkwall.