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[SPOILER] Dragon Age: Asunder Discussion


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#676
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CrimsonZephyr wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

It's been a while since I've read the book, but what about the lyrium trade? I thought the Chantry controlled it so wouldn't it be kind of dumb for the Templars to split from them?


There is always Lyrium Smugglers. I don't think Evangeline could have lasted long without illegal supply of Lyrium.


I actually think lyrium prices, in terms of sheer supply and demand, will actually go down. The Chantry was the only party that actually demanded that the Dwarves sell it exclusively to them, a demand they can no longer back with force of arms. Consequently, the price of lyrium in general is exceedingly high because of the reduced supply after the Chantry's had its fill. With the Chantry effectively toothless, all of that lyrium is on the market, which would drive prices down unless the Dwarves restricted how much they sold, and it's likely Orzammar, Kal-Sharok, and other reconquered thaigs (if Bhelen becomes king) would compete for business, further driving down prices.


Great points mate :)

Oh by the way... does anybody mind if I squee on about Rhys and Evangeline....

In a totally manly way of course! You can say no and slap me if you want.

#677
Maria13

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Didn't like Evan too much her role seemed to be to get gloriously gory so Rhys would fancy her even more!

#678
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Maria13 wrote...

Didn't like Evan too much her role seemed to be to get gloriously gory so Rhys would fancy her even more!


I loved their relationship, though I wish more was done to show it develop, it was kind of spontaneous how the whole "Damn girl!! U HOTZ!" Thing happened. I saw it coming miles away, but I would have prefered to see it more often. Yet it's not a romance novel so those things aren't excpected.

#679
HeroxMatt

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Evangeline was my favourite in the whole book. :P

#680
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HeroxMatt wrote...

Evangeline was my favourite in the whole book. :P


It was between her, Wynne and Rhys. I couldn't stand Adrian she was so ignorant it hurt. I was suprised with Fiona though xD really suprised.

#681
CrimsonZephyr

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simfamSP wrote...

HeroxMatt wrote...

Evangeline was my favourite in the whole book. :P


It was between her, Wynne and Rhys. I couldn't stand Adrian she was so ignorant it hurt. I was suprised with Fiona though xD really suprised.


Adrian was a pure ****. Fiona just struck me as being a hot-headed harridan - older, but not much wiser.

#682
LT123

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Finished it! I enjoyed getting to see some of the DAO cast again, especially Leliana and Wynne. I think the staff the Warden gave Wynne is the Corrupted Magister's Staff, judging by the descriptions in the book and wiki.

I caught myself mentally checking off spell names as they were being cast. Tempest! Chain Lightning! Cone of Cold!

Cole baffled me. At first I thought he was a mage unconsciously making himself invisible (he mentions wishing for the templars to "forget he even existed") and the hedge mage theory is brought up later. But the last page or so of the novel and reading some of the discussion here has convinced me that he was a corrupted or confused spirit.

Initially, I expected that the Warden's background would be established for the book canon, simply to make it easier for potential later novels. But I guess that keeping it vague a) prevents fan irritation and B) more importantly, pretty much everyone except the Origins companions would only think of the Warden as the Hero of Ferelden and not as Aedan Cousland or Lyna Mahariel or whatever his or her real name is.

Well worth the money I spent. =]

#683
terdferguson123

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*SPOILERS*

Whew, just finished the book this morning. What a great read, very good job David Gaider!

I noticed a very big upgrade in the quality of writing from The Calling to Asunder, specifically in the how the characters were written, heres what I think about the major characters:

Rhys -  A great protagonist with a lot of mystery surrounding him, which is a great way to go about writing a central character. Rhys really comes alive not from his own doing, but from his relationships with the other characters. I found the parts of the book when Rhys was with Cole were some of the best in the entire book. His compassion for Cole really showed that he was just genuinely a good guy, willing to look past Cole's faults and help him regardless of knowing what Cole has done. When Rhys finds out what Cole is at the end of the book, it is one of the saddest parts of any book I have read.

I also really admired the relationship that grew between Rhys and Evangeline, I see their relationship as more than just them falling in love, but as proof that Templars and Mages do not have to be enemies.

Cole - My personal favorite character in the book. Everything about his character is just so well written, and I am having a difficult time thinking of a character that I truly felt more sorry for in the DA universe. One of the things that really brought him alive was the constant questioning about his true nature that Rhys recieved from everyone around him. Many people throughout the novel accuse Rhys of speaking to a demon or a spirit, and while the ending left that up to a bit of a mystery about what he truly is (spirit or demon, or something more?), the writing is done so well that I came away feeling like Cole was one of the most human characters in the novel. I could very easily seem him returning in a future DA game as a possible companion or even an antagonist now that he understands what he is.

Evangeline - My favorite Templar in Thedas! I'll admit I am largely pro-mage (but anti-Anders, his way of going about it is wrong), but Evangeline was able to make me believe that there are some Templars that truly want to protect mages rather than limit their freedom. She stresses that throughout the novel, and when she goes against the Seeker at the end specifically becuase of her morals, I was so happy. I thought that adding in that she was addicted to lyrium was a good touch, because it shows that the Templars also make sacrifices, not just the mages. At the end when she is brought back to life, I was very touched, from both Wynne's sacrifice, and because I think that Evangeline is in many ways a symbol of peace between mages and templars. Wynne realized this when Evangeline stopped her from using the corrupted staff, while at the same time still fighting to save the mages.

Wynne - Everybody already knows Wynne of course, she has grown as a character in this novel however. In DA:O, I liked her as a companion and used her (pretty much had to if you didn't play a mage lol), but I never felt that she was that interesting, rather just a very moral old woman. I like that in the novel her character is shaken up a bit by the fact that she is with her son. She comes across as the strong leader of the group throughout the novel, at least thats the impression I got, and her sacrifice at the end was very touching. 

Adrian - Hard to describe, she is a very interesting character, but at the same time I felt like I disagreed with her on how she went about acheiving her goals. She reminded me a lot of Anders from DA2, very radical, guided by her emotions alone, extremely unpractical. Her conflict with Rhys and their past relationship was really well done, and it added another layer to the growing relationship between Rhys and Evangeline. Also, I was extremely dissapointed in her when I found out she killed Pharamound and framed Rhys for the murder, not because I think it's out of her character, but because she spends a large portion of the book telling Rhys that Cole is just a murderer and that Rhys shouldn't consort with him. Seems rather hypocritical, given her thoughts on that. A well written character nonetheless. I could easily see her as an antagonist in DA3, considering she was promoted to first enchanter.

Lord Seeker Lambert - Man did I hate this guy, and what more can you ask for in a villain? Needless to say, he played the villain role perfectly. And when I say this I mean that he came across as the kind of man who did terrible things, but only because he felt that it was the correct choice. He was not just an "evil for the sake of evil" kind of person, his background with the Tevinter circle was largely the cause for his black and white views of mages. In fact, some parts of the story gave hints that he was even caring about the mages, it's almost as if at the corner of his mind he knew what he was doing was wrong. The fight between him and Cole at the end was probobly the most intense moment in the book.

Some of the other notable others:

Leliana - a fan favorite, although her role was rather small in the book, still it was good to see what she has been up to since DA2.

Fiona - It was good to see her in this novel again, she was one of my favorite characters in The Calling, although I couldn't help but feel like her position as Grand Enchanter didn't fit her character from The Calling. However, a lot of years have passed and I'm perfectly willing to accept that she has just changed.

Divine Justinia - I am not sure how I feel about her just yet. Her want to understand the tranquil is admirable for a chantry member, but at the same time she seems to be almost Naive. I was able to see right from the get go that when Lord Seeker Lambert was laying out his demands for the conclave, that he was planning to push them into a "rebellion", somehow this seemed to have slipped by the Divine though. I don't really have enough info on her to judge her character I think, and I hope that DA3 extrapolates on her.

Shale - Was great to read about her again, the only thing that I wished they would have done was perhaps discover a way to turn her back into a dwarf. I suppose thats a story for another time though.
All in all, I loved this book! ;)

Modifié par terdferguson123, 23 février 2012 - 10:17 .


#684
HeroxMatt

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Yeah, I think it was mentioned before that the fact there isn't a "one size fits all" regarding characters and where their allegiances lie towards the mage vs templar debate is what really makes this book.

#685
terdferguson123

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HeroxMatt wrote...

Yeah, I think it was mentioned before that the fact there isn't a "one size fits all" regarding characters and where their allegiances lie towards the mage vs templar debate is what really makes this book.


That's a great point, the book is largely pro mage. But I do think that the book goes to some great lengths to make the reader feel manipulated by the mages. Something that I never really felt in the games was the allure of spirits or demons that is talked about in so much detail. In the book, I think the brilliance of Cole's character lead many people to believe that he was actually a real person rather than a demon/spirit, I know at least for me, when it was confirmed by the Litany that he was a demon/spirit, I felt slightly manipulated. My point is, many people will see this and the fact that the mages want a war at the end of the book to be less pro mage than expected.

#686
Rinshikai

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I know that this is completely off current topic but

Does anything think that this would be a possible method to reverse the RoT. Looking on the Dragon Age wiki for info on the Arcane Warrior class, I see that they have the ability called fade shroud.

After the events of Asunder we know that if a tranquil lures a spirit from the fade to the physical world they can regain their emotions and magic. With fade shroud, a Mage is only partly in the physical world, spanning the gap between real world and the fade. In theory its seems like this type of Mage could act as the link instead of having to lure a spirit.

Anyone have any thoughts?

#687
CrimsonZephyr

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All I'm hoping for is the opportunity to drive an axe through Adrian and Fiona's skulls in DA3. As Libertarian mages, they deserve it. Not to mention, Orlesian...

More blood is always good.

Modifié par CrimsonZephyr, 27 février 2012 - 10:16 .


#688
Priisus

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Rinshikai wrote...

After the events of Asunder we know that if a tranquil lures a spirit from the fade to the physical world they can regain their emotions and magic. With fade shroud, a Mage is only partly in the physical world, spanning the gap between real world and the fade. In theory its seems like this type of Mage could act as the link instead of having to lure a spirit.

Anyone have any thoughts?


This thread is alive again? :lol:

It's an interesting thought definitely but honestly I don't seem to think that they like bringing gameplay classes to lore discussion besides the obvious Blood Mage, Spirit Healer, Keeper and Templar.

While gameplay wise the Arcane Warriors and Spirit Warriors are awesome, it's hard to integrate characters with those classes (and their lore/role description) imo.

#689
Rinshikai

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[quote]Priisus wrote...

[quote]Rinshikai wrote...

After the events of Asunder we know that if a tranquil lures a spirit from the fade to the physical world they can regain their emotions and magic. With fade shroud, a Mage is only partly in the physical world, spanning the gap between real world and the fade. In theory its seems like this type of Mage could act as the link instead of having to lure a spirit.

Anyone have any thoughts?
[/quote]

This thread is alive again? :lol:

It's an interesting thought definitely but honestly I don't seem to think that they like bringing gameplay classes to lore discussion besides the obvious Blood Mage, Spirit Healer, Keeper and Templar.

While gameplay wise the Arcane Warriors and Spirit Warriors are awesome, it's hard to integrate characters with those classes (and their lore/role description) imo.[/quote]

[/quote]

Just a theory, I wanted to get the idea out there. Even though this still is gameplay rather then the actual lore. :lol:

[/quote]

Modifié par Rinshikai, 28 février 2012 - 05:27 .


#690
Rinshikai

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Rinshikai wrote...

I know that this is completely off current topic but

Does anyone think that this would be a possible method to reverse the RoT. Looking on the Dragon Age wiki for info on the Arcane Warrior class, I see that they have the ability called fade shroud.

After the events of Asunder we know that if a tranquil lures a spirit from the fade to the physical world they can regain their emotions and magic. With fade shroud, a Mage is only partly in the physical world, spanning the gap between real world and the fade. In theory its seems like this type of Mage could act as the link instead of having to lure a spirit.

Anyone have any thoughts?



#691
Blacklash93

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So where was the Knight-Vigilant in Asunder? Isn't he the head of the White Spire?

#692
Rinshikai

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I believe that the Knight-Vigilant is the head of the entire Templar Order. As far as I can remember they are not in Asunder.

#693
Priisus

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Rinshikai wrote...

I believe that the Knight-Vigilant is the head of the entire Templar Order. As far as I can remember they are not in Asunder.


From the wiki about the Templar (dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Templar_Order), it seems that there is a Knight Divine above the Knight Vigilant. Not sure what a Knight Divine is and it seems that a Knight Vigilant is the equivalent to the Grand Enchanter (as they are above the Knight Commander).

However, the end of Asunder specifically mentioned that the Knight Commanders mutinied/separated from the Divine under our dear Lord Seeker Lambert... wonder what happen to the Knight Vigilant or Knight Divine.

Also on an unrelated note: DA2 got patched today, maybe new content coming up soon? the dev team never specifically mentioned that MoTA is the end of the line for DA2...

#694
Rinshikai

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[quote]Priisus wrote...

[quote]Rinshikai wrote...

I believe that the Knight-Vigilant is the head of the entire Templar Order. As far as I can remember they are not in Asunder.
[/quote]

From the wiki about the Templar (dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Templar_Order), it seems that there is a Knight Divine above the Knight Vigilant. Not sure what a Knight Divine is and it seems that a Knight Vigilant is the equivalent to the Grand Enchanter (as they are above the Knight Commander).

However, the end of Asunder specifically mentioned that the Knight Commanders mutinied/separated from the Divine under our dear Lord Seeker Lambert... wonder what happen to the Knight Vigilant or Knight Divine.

Also on an unrelated note: DA2 got patched today, maybe new content coming up soon? the dev team never specifically mentioned that MoTA is the end of the line for DA2...[/quote]

[/quote]
That sounds interesting, maybe after the mass effect 3 launch next week will hear something.
[/quote]

#695
DrwEddy

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terdferguson123 wrote...

*SPOILERS*

Adrian - Hard to describe, she is a very interesting character, but at the same time I felt like I disagreed with her on how she went about acheiving her goals. She reminded me a lot of Anders from DA2, very radical, guided by her emotions alone, extremely unpractical. Her conflict with Rhys and their past relationship was really well done, and it added another layer to the growing relationship between Rhys and Evangeline. Also, I was extremely dissapointed in her when I found out she killed Pharamound and framed Rhys for the murder, not because I think it's out of her character, but because she spends a large portion of the book telling Rhys that Cole is just a murderer and that Rhys shouldn't consort with him. Seems rather hypocritical, given her thoughts on that. A well written character nonetheless. I could easily see her as an antagonist in DA3, considering she was promoted to first enchanter.

Why did Adrian murdered Pharamond? Image IPB

#696
Priisus

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DrwEddy wrote...
Why did Adrian murdered Pharamond? Image IPB


Did you read the book? She mentioned her reason for it to Rhys in the last chapter.

#697
R2s Muse

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Just finished the story, so coming to the discussion very late. I really enjoyed it though! A lot of food for thought. Reading through most of the rest, I'm glad I'm not the only one with many of these same questions! There's one, however, that is still driving me crazy -- the timing.

Going back through, to the best of my Kindle's search ability, the only definitive date I could find is that Lambert signs his letter in 9:40. This suggests the bulk of the book's events take place around 9:40, the same year Cassandra interrogates Varric, presumably just before.

The other strong evidence for dates is the fact that Rhys first met Wynne "nearly ten years ago" and that she came after the Blight. When Wynne first addresses the White Spire mages, she is described as a "hero of the Blight in Ferelden nine years before" (location 1459). Being a year long, the Blight started in 9:30 ended in 9:31. So, this all suggests again the book is set in 9:40.

However... whenever they talk about the Kirkwall "mage rebellion," it is described repeatedly as having taken place "a year ago" (location 601).  A year ago: "the far-off city of Kirkwall rebelled," the White Spire mages heard about Kirkwall, the templars began cracking down, Rhys's research was discontinued, Rhys first saw Cole on the day they heard about Kirkwall. All happening a year ago. But... the events of DA2 Act 3 were in 9:37. Honestly, for most of the book I would've sworn the year was 9:38, until Lambert's letter. Now it sounds like this rebellion was in 9:39, or maybe 9:38 at the earliest.

So... this all sounds to me like perhaps the "mage rebellion" of a year ago is not quite the same as what happened with Hawke, Anders and Co. When the book mentions the rebellion and Anders specifically, it's "Anders had slain the Grand Cleric and set off a series of events that led to the slaughter of nearly every member of the city's Circle..." (location 6778)  So, perhaps this series of events took some time, and the "Kirkwall mage rebellion" happened in the aftermath of the battle with Meredith...? Or, could no one have heard about what happened for a year or two after??

Frankly, I'm stumped. Other thoughts??:huh:

Modifié par R2s Muse, 06 mars 2012 - 02:30 .


#698
Koire

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I think most of the book is set in late autumn-winter 9:38 - winter 9:39 and Lambert signs his letter in 9:40, a year later. Either that or late autumn-winter 9:39 - winter 9:40, but then Kirkwall rebellion must have happened in 9:38, four rather than three years later than Hawke became the Champion.. hm, now I'm confused too.
Also, Dorothea became the Divine in 9:34. Therefore when she says that she asked Pharamond to undertake his reasearch 5 years ago, it must be at least 9:39, but then "the rebellion" is in 9:38, and it is in 9:37 in the game, because it is "year seven" and 9:34 is "year four"..
PS Re Wynne: The Blight started and ended in 9:30, so 9:39 is exactly 9 years later.

:unsure:

Modifié par Koire, 06 mars 2012 - 06:57 .


#699
devSin

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terdferguson123 wrote...

Whew, just finished the book this morning. What a great read, very good job David Gaider!

I noticed a very big upgrade in the quality of writing from The Calling to Asunder, specifically in the how the characters were written, heres what I think about the major characters:

I just wanted to state that I completely agree with this.

It was always a struggle to get through some of the chapters in his earlier books; with Asunder, I think I got to Page 117 or thereabouts before realizing that I was still reading, without pause, and didn't really feel the urge to stop.

terdferguson123 wrote...

Shale - Was great to read about her again, the only thing that I wished they would have done was perhaps discover a way to turn her back into a dwarf. I suppose thats a story for another time though.

Shale was just perfect. I think I've smiled more reading Shale's parts than I have for the rest of this entire year.

#700
R2s Muse

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Koire wrote...
Also, Dorothea became the Divine in 9:34. Therefore when she says that she asked Pharamond to undertake his reasearch 5 years ago, it must be at least 9:39, but then "the rebellion" is in 9:38, and it is in 9:37 in the game, because it is "year seven" and 9:34 is "year four"..
PS Re Wynne: The Blight started and ended in 9:30, so 9:39 is exactly 9 years later.

:unsure:


Ah, good catch on the timing with Dorothea. Hmm.. so it still doesn't quite work. Adding that, it sounds like the book has to take place in at least 9:39. And, with Wynne... from various accounts, it sounds like the Fifth Blight  lasted on the order of a year, but certainly a number of a months. So even if it ended toward the end of 9:30, nine years later is getting pretty close to 9:40 (and Rhys often said "nearly ten years", suggesting 9+). Of course, many of these timescales are hand-wavey at some level... I'm sure "a year ago" doesn't mean "exactly 12 months ago" but even with an error of budget of a few months on that as well as the "three years" between DA2 Act2 and Act 3, it's hard to imagine Anders blowing up the Chantry in 9:38.

Jeesh. Maybe the new comic will tell us something, since it takes place in 9:38 (which I thought previously was going to be co-eval with Asunder... <_<).