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[Koire]

R2s Muse wrote...

Koire wrote...
Also, Dorothea became the Divine in 9:34. Therefore when she says that she asked Pharamond to undertake his reasearch 5 years ago, it must be at least 9:39, but then "the rebellion" is in 9:38, and it is in 9:37 in the game, because it is "year seven" and 9:34 is "year four"..
PS Re Wynne: The Blight started and ended in 9:30, so 9:39 is exactly 9 years later.

Ah, good catch on the timing with Dorothea. Hmm.. so it still doesn't quite work. Adding that, it sounds like the book has to take place in at least 9:39. And, with Wynne... from various accounts, it sounds like the Fifth Blight lasted on the order of a year, but certainly a number of a months. So even if it ended toward the end of 9:30, nine years later is getting pretty close to 9:40 (and Rhys often said "nearly ten years", suggesting 9+). Of course, many of these timescales are hand-wavey at some level... I'm sure "a year ago" doesn't mean "exactly 12 months ago" but even with an error of budget of a few months on that as well as the "three years" between DA2 Act2 and Act 3, it's hard to imagine Anders blowing up the Chantry in 9:38.
Jeesh. Maybe the new comic will tell us something, since it takes place in 9:38 (which I thought previously was going to be co-eval with Asunder... ).

The beginning of the book takes place in late autumn (Oct-Nov?), and the moment when Lambert is sending his letter most likely happens in the beginning of the next year (Jan-Feb?), thus I suppose the book starts in 9:39 and ends in 9:40, though I'm not sure. Otherwise it would be 9:40 and 9:41...
But I also don't understand why it is 9 years and not 8 years.

Modifié par Koire, 06 mars 2012 - 08:11 .

[R2s Muse]

Koire wrote...

The beginning of the book takes place in late autumn (Oct-Nov?), and the moment when Lambert is sending his letter most likely happens in the beginning of the next year (Jan-Feb?), thus I suppose the book starts in 9:39 and ends in 9:40, though I'm not sure. Otherwise it would be 9:40 and 9:41...
But I also don't understand why it is 9 years and not 8 years.

Ah, excellent point. Yes! It starts in "late autumn," Pharamond talks with Cole at the first snow, the mage vote occurs in full winter (over a month later), with Lambert's letter after that. So, ostensibly the events could occur around the turn of the Thedas calendar 9:39 to 9:40, since its first months seem to also be the winter ones. So, nine years previous would be late autumn 9:30, still consistent with the Fifth Blight. Alas, none of this is consistent with Chantry blowup in 9:37.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 06 mars 2012 - 08:34 .

[aTrueFool]

R2s Muse wrote...

Koire wrote...

The beginning of the book takes place in late autumn (Oct-Nov?), and the moment when Lambert is sending his letter most likely happens in the beginning of the next year (Jan-Feb?), thus I suppose the book starts in 9:39 and ends in 9:40, though I'm not sure. Otherwise it would be 9:40 and 9:41...
But I also don't understand why it is 9 years and not 8 years.

Ah, excellent point. Yes! It starts in "late autumn," Pharamond talks with Cole at the first snow, the mage vote occurs in full winter (over a month later), with Lambert's letter after that. So, ostensibly the events could occur around the turn of the Thedas calendar 9:39 to 9:40, since its first months seem to also be the winter ones. So, nine years previous would be late autumn 9:30, still consistent with the Fifth Blight. Alas, none of this is consistent with Chantry blowup in 9:37.

How long is act 3? Is it possible that it starts in 9:37 and ends 9:38.

[R2s Muse]

aTrueFool wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

Koire wrote...
The beginning of the book takes place in late autumn (Oct-Nov?), and the moment when Lambert is sending his letter most likely happens in the beginning of the next year (Jan-Feb?), thus I suppose the book starts in 9:39 and ends in 9:40, though I'm not sure. Otherwise it would be 9:40 and 9:41...
But I also don't understand why it is 9 years and not 8 years.

Ah, excellent point. Yes! It starts in "late autumn," Pharamond talks with Cole at the first snow, the mage vote occurs in full winter (over a month later), with Lambert's letter after that. So, ostensibly the events could occur around the turn of the Thedas calendar 9:39 to 9:40, since its first months seem to also be the winter ones. So, nine years previous would be late autumn 9:30, still consistent with the Fifth Blight. Alas, none of this is consistent with Chantry blowup in 9:37.

How long is act 3? Is it possible that it starts in 9:37 and ends 9:38.

You know, good question. The first two acts seem to be negligibly short, since, for example, Hawke is crowned champion in 9:34 at the end of Act 2, which is after one year of indentured servitude and three years between Acts 1 & 2. So, I've always figured the action in each act was only weeks to maybe a few months long. Similarly, Cassandra shows up in 9:40, which I believe is supposed to be three years after Act 3 (but I can't find anything saying that at present...).

[bobosuda]

I realize that I am probably way too late in this discussion, but I just finished the book and I'd like to at least write down what I feel about it.

I didn't like it at all. The book was almost exclusively pro-mage, the "protagonists" was ridiculously short-sighted and ignorant, and throughout the entire book I couldn't help but think that, really, the mages justified the Templar in every turn.

It seems to me that the book pretty much reduced the entire Templar/Mage war into a farce that will almost guaranteed go the way of the mages, what with every single important character ending up in favor of mages or dead by the end of the book (including the Hero of Ferelden, it seems, who by giving the staff and including Wynne in his travels is definitely pro-mage in canon, now).

The book actually proved the Lord Seeker right with the whole Cole thing; he was a demon is what I got from the final pages. Also, it seems certain that this demon killed him, which pretty much reduced the Templar side of the war into a headless, faceless "we are the bad guys" faction. My prediction is that the Seeker involved in the story-telling part of DA2 will either take charge of the Seekers as a whole or help finding someone who will - and they'll eventually reconcile and let the mages do whatever they want.

I'm seriously disappointed with this book because it removed the whole "not just black and white" philosophy of the DA world, something that I feel have been pretty well represented in the games so far. It seems obvious to me that the Templars are justified in what they did/are going to do, yet the book desperately tries to make the Mages the good guys and the Templars the bad guys, by slowly removing any redeeming factors of the Templar cause and just going on and on with the incredibly stupid excuse of "well, mages wouldn't have to resort to blood magic if the Templars didn't blah blah blah".

All in all I have lost almost all interest in the entire situation, while I after DA2 was left with a hunger to know more about what happened and what kind of developments we would see, I'm now left with a certainty that in end the "good" mages will succeed and all will be well. Nothing anywhere in this book or in any of the lore have suggested to me that the end result will be any different than what Lambert described he witnessed in Tevinter.

Modifié par bobosuda, 07 mars 2012 - 03:13 .

[Rinshikai]

Has anyone else read the article the Irony of Magic?

[K_Tabris]

Just finished the novel (benefits of insomnia, wheee).

I thought it was a great read. After playing DA2, where you feel that the game is trying to show the dark side of mages a little too much, it was nice to read a more benevolent view of mages. However, I was not too thrilled to see Wynne give up her familiar for the girlfriend of Anders 2.0. Hopefully, Rhys' and Evangeline's roles in DA3 will make it count. Gaider did a great job portraying the grayness of the entire issue as well. It was easy to hate the Lord Seeker, but by the end of the novel, I found myself thinking he was in the right. At the same time, is it worth overlooking some things for the bigger picture?

So exciting to see Alistair's mother, Leliana, Wynne and Shale make appearances. Definitely looking forward to seeing more of Fiona in the next game. Maybe she even knows where Maric really disappeared to

[labargegrrrl]

bobosuda wrote...

I didn't like it at all. The book was almost exclusively pro-mage, the "protagonists" was ridiculously short-sighted and ignorant, and throughout the entire book I couldn't help but think that, really, the mages justified the Templar in every turn.

.

that's what i thought was kind of beautifully both sided about it, though.  you're seeing it mostly through a mage's eyes with most of the protaganists, but you're also seeing at almost every turn how the Templars could be totally justified when you weren't just numbly putting yourself in the shoes of the pro-mage protaganists.  how else could they have explained how the Circles all went from absolute zero to F451 after Kirkwall?

[Thor Rand Al]

So I'm really curious about Cole. He's become my fav in Asunder. What I'd really like to know is what is he. He's not a demon/abomination. Do they even care or have feelings or show mercy?? But one thing I am curious about is how can Cole hear the OG's song??

[Thor Rand Al]

Gaider, I have a question about Cole, is he staying in the books or is he going to appear in a game lol. Yes my heart goes out to him and I'd like to see more about/of him somewhere.

[Urzon]

Thor Rand Al wrote...
 But one thing I am curious about is how can Cole hear the OG's song??

He is most likely hearing the song that lyrium produces, that only spirits and other beings of the fade can hear. Justice comments on it in DAA when you give him the lyrium ring gift, if i remember right.

Whether or not the Old God's song and the singing of the lyrium are connected is a whole other question in and of itself.

Modifié par Urzon, 27 mars 2012 - 05:24 .

[KainD]

So I haven't read all these pages, but from what I have read about reverse tranquility I came to an assumption that - abomination cannot be made tranquil. Would that be correct?

[EmperorSahlertz]

Yes. An Abomination is in constant contact with the Fade, because the demon inside is literally part of the Fade, therefore an Abomination can't be made tranquil.

[Thor Rand Al]

Urzon wrote...

Thor Rand Al wrote...
 But one thing I am curious about is how can Cole hear the OG's song??

He is most likely hearing the song that lyrium produces, that only spirits and other beings of the fade can hear. Justice comments on it in DAA when you give him the lyrium ring gift, if i remember right.

Whether or not the Old God's song and the singing of the lyrium are connected is a whole other question in and of itself.

It's not the lyrium that he's hearing, it's the same music that the darkspawn are hearing.  This is at the Abyssal Rift.   Gonna quote a part from the book: Warning, SPOILER
  "And worse, there was the music.  He didn't know what it was, but it seemed to come from far, far off.  It called to him, but not in a pleasant way---it had an urgency that sped his heart and made his blood burn.  The dark creatures, the lurkers, they listened to it.  He didn't know how he knew that, but he could feel them out there, craning their necks, raising taloned hands towards that call."  Cole is basically surrounded by darkspawn and they hear the same sound as he.

Modifié par Thor Rand Al, 27 mars 2012 - 04:17 .

[Dave of Canada]

Am I wrong in hoping Lambert is still alive in some shape or form? I'd like to see him return (as I enjoyed him as a character), unharmed or possibly a vegetative state as he barely survived Cole's attack.

[Corbinus]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Am I wrong in hoping Lambert is still alive in some shape or form? I'd like to see him return (as I enjoyed him as a character), unharmed or possibly a vegetative state as he barely survived Cole's attack.

No, you are not. I finished the book yesterday and until the last scene I was like "Hope to see you in DA 3 so I can personally cut you into thousand little pieces, Lambert!"
I was strongly affected by Evangeline's death scene:? (i love all this "forbidden romance" stuff)  Good thing she was brought back.
Lambert is an interesting character. Just as Meredith he had his bad experience with mages, but unlike her he is not affected by any ancient evil magic (as far as we know. I am still curious what  is it so unusual Cole saw in Lambert when he came to Evangeline's room )
He is concerned about order, but as Rhys pointed out Lambert doesn't see difference between different kinds of magic... and probably never will. So he got to go. Would be awesome to be the that person in DA 3 who will take his life.

Modifié par Corbinus, 02 avril 2012 - 11:00 .

[terdferguson123]

bobosuda wrote...

I realize that I am probably way too late in this discussion, but I just finished the book and I'd like to at least write down what I feel about it.

I didn't like it at all. The book was almost exclusively pro-mage, the "protagonists" was ridiculously short-sighted and ignorant, and throughout the entire book I couldn't help but think that, really, the mages justified the Templar in every turn.

It seems to me that the book pretty much reduced the entire Templar/Mage war into a farce that will almost guaranteed go the way of the mages, what with every single important character ending up in favor of mages or dead by the end of the book (including the Hero of Ferelden, it seems, who by giving the staff and including Wynne in his travels is definitely pro-mage in canon, now).

The book actually proved the Lord Seeker right with the whole Cole thing; he was a demon is what I got from the final pages. Also, it seems certain that this demon killed him, which pretty much reduced the Templar side of the war into a headless, faceless "we are the bad guys" faction. My prediction is that the Seeker involved in the story-telling part of DA2 will either take charge of the Seekers as a whole or help finding someone who will - and they'll eventually reconcile and let the mages do whatever they want.

I'm seriously disappointed with this book because it removed the whole "not just black and white" philosophy of the DA world, something that I feel have been pretty well represented in the games so far. It seems obvious to me that the Templars are justified in what they did/are going to do, yet the book desperately tries to make the Mages the good guys and the Templars the bad guys, by slowly removing any redeeming factors of the Templar cause and just going on and on with the incredibly stupid excuse of "well, mages wouldn't have to resort to blood magic if the Templars didn't blah blah blah".

All in all I have lost almost all interest in the entire situation, while I after DA2 was left with a hunger to know more about what happened and what kind of developments we would see, I'm now left with a certainty that in end the "good" mages will succeed and all will be well. Nothing anywhere in this book or in any of the lore have suggested to me that the end result will be any different than what Lambert described he witnessed in Tevinter.

I dunno, I don't think the book was really that pro-mage. It was written from a mages perspective, but it also gives you a first hand look at the corruption the mages pull as well (Adrian killing Pharamond, Wynne using the corrupted staff, the mages pushing for rebellion, etc) This book, is more about personal good people coming together than a side being chosen. Rhys is a genuinely good guy, he's a mage. Evangeline is a good person as well and she is a Templar. It's all about perspective, and after reading the book, I really do not see any kind of mage bias. The entire book pounds home how dangerous mages can be.

[Cantina]

Just finished the book and I have to say-DAMN!

I am not much of a book reader but when it comes to Dragon
Age, especially after what happened at the end of DA2, I had to read this book.
Makes me happy with the choices I made in DA2 and would do them again. Also had me thinking
towards the end if my Hawke and her “husband” Anders showed up for the
mage meeting; if they did not I wonder what their plans are once the news comes their
way.

Oh now I want DA3 out, like now, I feel like a little kid
the day before Christmas after reading this book.

Modifié par Cantina, 09 avril 2012 - 04:02 .

[ananna21]

I so suspect that we will see Adrian. If only to see her face karma preferably done by me.

Modifié par ananna21, 29 avril 2012 - 08:08 .

[CrimsonZephyr]

She will probably end up getting shanked. She's such a colossal **** I don't see any other fate in store for her. How she managed to stay so long without receiving a blade to the spine is beyond me, not to mention how she managed to get promoted to First Enchanter when every named character hates her.

[labargegrrrl]

i was just thinking about tranquility a little bit ago, and i suddenly remembered the part of asunder where a tranquil helped evangeline, wynn, and shale out with some rebellious activities out of the blue. that also got me thinking about pharmond starting up his research on tranquility as well. then i got to thinking about owain (anyone remember him? just me?). and rys had an interesting conversation with a tranquil about the rite too...

my point being, has asunder caused anyone else to wonder much about tranquility at all? if the tranquil are more than just these obedient and emotionless robot people that they've seemed like before? or did everyone wonder about this way ahead of me an draw conclusions already? which seems to be the norm for me so far.

[Reznore57]

Just finished the book and i liked it.

I was a little disappointed that they were not enough templars as Evangeline.
She is shown a lot of time keeping the mage out of trouble (in the inn , and wynne and the staff) it shows that indeed (good) templars are needed .
A lot of things crumbles by the end of the book ,and it's going to be interesting to know the aftermath in DA3.
I think it's gonna be ugly on both side , mages and templars alike^^.

I really like Cole , i don't think he's a bad demon (or spirit).I think he was really lost...But it's the third time we encountered a "spirit " in a human , wynne ,Anders and Cole.
I thought spirit unlike demon didn't mean to posess human , is there something going on in the fade and will we see more "nice" abomination?

As for tranquil , i think they're emotionless.But not stupid .They've been cut from the fade , but we know dwarf have no connection to the fade neither , they don't dream .What's the difference between them ,i have no idea .
It seems a lot of people are able to hear a song from the fade , lyrium, old gods etc...dwarf , like bartrand could also.I'm pretty sure Tranquil can't and i wonder if a tranquil can be tainted?

[Koire]

@two previous posters

Some info about the Tranquil - hope that helps)

Modifié par Koire, 07 mai 2012 - 08:46 .

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

I just finished Asunder for the second time. I found two things that really struck me being odd with Cole. First when making the approach to Adamant and trying to keep up with the party Cole can sense the darkspawn around and he knows they are there even in the dark and he can't see them. The book says he senses them. I thought only a warden could do this. He can also hear the song.

On the last few pages with Cole and the Lord Seeker, the person isn't Cole that we knew through the entire book but someone pretending to be Cole. What he says to the Lord Seeker is totally different on what really happened from the beginning of the book. The person who is going kill the Lord Seeker says there was a person by the name of Cole once and the person tells the Lord Seeker that he witnessed Cole die in that prison cell and heard the cries of the mage that was allowed to starve to death or beaten to death in the prison cell. The person could hear the real Coles' cries for help and at the time could do nothing to stop what was happening.except hold his hand while the real Cole died and how the Templars covered up the death of the real Cole. The thought popped into my mind the person sitting on the Lord Seeker's chest and I'm assuming getting ready to slit his throat was someone totally different. I'm going to go out on a really big limb here saying it was my warden(s), and for whatever reason the Seekers imprisoned the warden. I also got the impression this warden would be a rogue with disappearing abilities for the story of the book. The darkness inside of him that the Cole discribes could be the taint. Has the warden forgotten who he/she is? Did anyone else pick up on this reading the last few pages of the book and also when Cole is racing to Adamant to save Rhys?

Why would the Lord Seekers imprison the Warden unless when doing the DR they found out about it and would consider the warden an apostate or a supporter of blood mages. I'm also going to assume that Leliana nor Cassandra know that the Warden was in that prison or if they did know that Leliana was trying to get the warden out.  We've seen through the games since Awakening that the Chantry has been following the Wardens around trying to get into warden business and their affairs.  This has been a repeating theme since Awakening. 

I also found the wording of the Lord Seekers' letter to the Divine really interesting on what might transpire for the new game if there is one.  

Hopefully Bioware will have something to show us for the San Diego Comic Con.  I'd like to hear some news and soon if there is really going to be a DA3.

Thoughts anyone?

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 08 mai 2012 - 05:27 .

[Urzon]

It would be funny if Cole was Anders' real name. Oh, all the delicious theories that could come from that.

Modifié par Urzon, 08 mai 2012 - 07:58 .