728 ответов в этой теме

[tmp7704]

Lawliet89 wrote...

SPOILER WARNING  - If you do not want to be spoiled with details of the book do not read on. You have been warned.



==================================================================================
- The Divine,(..) In fact, she aids the mages in the book.

Oh dear. Some pro-mage posters are going to explode.

[TEWR]

Oh dear. Some pro-mage posters are going to explode.

I did! Mainly because DAII failed to portray the Divine as anything but an anti-mage harpy.

Though in certain posts of mine I did speculate if she would be a pro-mage person -- or even a mage herself, but that was more if she turned into a villain -- in a few instances.

Сообщение изменено: The Ethereal Writer Redux, 12 Декабрь 2011 - 11:01 .

[TEWR]

Dave of Canada wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

So far it sounds promising, if only for the fact that it is as SoH said very pro-mage.

You and I are about to have a talk. In private.

I'm not sure whether to be scared or be nonchalant about it.

I'll be nonchalant about it.

[Morroian]

Lawliet89 wrote...

- The Divine, as we know, is a close friend of Leliana and she is interested in reform for the mages. But traditions and many people who do not share that belief are in her way. In fact, she aids the mages in the book.

This will leave a few pro mage supporters with egg on their faces.

[Lawliet89]

RagingCyclone wrote...

I have to say I am somewhat skeptical of the OP. The revelations seem...convenient. I mean...has the OP actually read a real copy of the book? Or a pirated copy? Seems rather...odd...at least to me. *shrugs shoulders*

Well i most certainly have. No reason to lie. I will answer some ofnthe questions when I get back from classes.

[Wulfram]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I did! Mainly because DAII failed to portray the Divine as anything but an anti-mage harpy.

It portrayed her as working with Leliana, a person who we know from DA:O is quite sympathetic towards mages, and who is shown at the end of the game working towards peace.

[TEWR]

Wulfram wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I did! Mainly because DAII failed to portray the Divine as anything but an anti-mage harpy.

It portrayed her as working with Leliana, a person who we know from DA:O is quite sympathetic towards mages, and who is shown at the end of the game working towards peace.

It was just how the dialogue was worded that made me think they were made anti-mage. It gave off that vibe because it was worded poorly. Bioware's intent may not have been to portray them as such, but that's how they were portrayed to people. Didn't help matters that Hawke just stands there going "DERRRR...." instead of explaining the situation.

Granted, the Resolutionists weren't helping matters, but they weren't the main reason for Kirkwall's problems.

EDIT: And given the Chantry's history of "peace" with the mages prior to Divine Justinia V, I wasn't exactly about to say "Well she wants peace so she must be pro-mage or at least a decent person!"

Сообщение изменено: The Ethereal Writer Redux, 12 Декабрь 2011 - 02:00 .

[Augustei]

So are the Lord Seeker and Knight-Vigilant different people? What is the
difference between their roles? Is Shale still a golem in it or is she
back to being a dwarf? and are there any other characters from the games
in it besides shale and wynne? Also any big twists you can tell me?

Thats about it for my questions lol

[Lawliet89]

How would you describe Shale's attitude towards mages in this book? The same or more open?

Hmmm she doesn't express much opinion on the subject other than to help Wynne out along the way, making sarcastic remarks as usual and talking about squishing squishy humans.

Does the book explain how the Divine goes from trying to crush the mage rebellion in Kirkwall to supporting them in their struggle for freedom?

I don't think she ever went as far as to crush the mage rebellion in Kirkwall right? she did not invoke the right of annulment. More like Meredith did it on her own accord.

Does the book go into detail as to why every Circle in Thedas rebels at the same time? Thats something that bugged me at the end of DA2, as its not like its a world of instant communication where you'd think rebellion like that would spread fast necessarily.

Does it explain what sort of rebellion the mages are undertaking? I mean, are we talking massive armies of mages trying to establish an independent Mage state or just a bunch of hipster, emo mages like Anders doing random acts of violence with no apparent thought as to a realistic end goal?

Is there one big event in the book that precipitates every Circle going into rebellion, or are we supposed to think that what Anders did in DA2 was enough?

Well that would require me to give you a plot summary to give you a detailed look (which I am lazy) but here's the rundown:
- Wynne sends the message that the Rite can be reversed through the communicating stones to ALL the circles in Thedas.
- She tells the Divine this and the Divine agrees to have a conclave to discuss whether this knowledge should be used or not.
- The First Enchanters gather and the discussion turns into a second vote to decide if the circles should declare independence from the Chantry.
- The overzealous Lord Seeker declares this as treason and charges in to kill them all.
- Some of the enchanters gets captured and imprisoned and some dies. None of them used Blood Magic apparently.
- Then with the aid of Leliana and the Divine, Wynne and co. sets all these Enchanters free.
- Months (?) later, they gather at the Ruins of Andorhal and they decide that they should fight instead of surrendering back to the Chantry.
- The Lord Seeker knows that the Divine was implicit in letting the mages escape and thus writes an ultimatum to divorce the templars and Seekers of Truth from the chantry to fight the mages.

You mentioned in the other thread that they go to the Western Approach and up to the Abyssal Reach. Do they describe the geography or environment of that region? Is it like a desert, cold, dry...?

And who exactly is travelling across the Western Approach and why? Do they have some final destination they're trying to reach out west?

The research on whether the Rite of Tranquility was carried out at an abandoned fortress at the Abyssal Reach because the veil was thin. Basically, there is a giant crack in the ground formed ages ago that the darkspawn emerged from during the second blight. So the wardens built a fortress there to fight the darkspawn. It is a desert and windy.

Finally, Rhys is a "charming and funny" guy who has a witty sense of humour. Well he managed to fall in love and get loved by a templar at the end of the book.

Warning: Depressing detail below:
At the end of the book, Wynne dies, by channeling the spirit that kept her alive to save Rhys' lover, the templar Evangeline when she fell defending Rhys from the Lord seeker. Wynne has been in this conflict throughout the whole book about why she has been kept alive. She "realises" it at the end of the book and passes away smiling.

Сообщение изменено: Lawliet89, 12 Декабрь 2011 - 02:28 .

[TEWR]

As preachy as she was, that makes me sad to see happen. Happy too because of her reasons for doing it, but sad.

Is it just a coincidence or incredibly weird timing that as I read that I was listening to A Fleeting Dream off of FFX's soundtrack, which is one of the saddest songs in the game?

Сообщение изменено: The Ethereal Writer Redux, 12 Декабрь 2011 - 03:44 .

[Wulfram]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

It was just how the dialogue was worded that made me think they were made anti-mage. It gave off that vibe because it was worded poorly. Bioware's intent may not have been to portray them as such, but that's how they were portrayed to people. Didn't help matters that Hawke just stands there going "DERRRR...." instead of explaining the situation.

Granted, the Resolutionists weren't helping matters, but they weren't the main reason for Kirkwall's problems.

EDIT: And given the Chantry's history of peace with the mages prior to Divine Justinia, I wasn't exactly about to say "Well she wants peace so she must be pro-mage!"

The evidence didn't establish that she was pro-mage.  But the combination of Leliana's established character and working for peace did strongly suggest that she wasn't particularly anti-mage.  And she doesn't exactly seem like a "harpy" in Leliana's song

[Wulfram]

How much does the book reference the events of DA2, and what does it say about them?

[Lawliet89]

Wulfram wrote...

How much does the book reference the events of DA2, and what does it say about them?

They mostly mention the increased tensions that the templars have with the mages due to the events in Kirkwall. Doesn't say what happened after that there.

[TEWR]

Wulfram wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

It was just how the dialogue was worded that made me think they were made anti-mage. It gave off that vibe because it was worded poorly. Bioware's intent may not have been to portray them as such, but that's how they were portrayed to people. Didn't help matters that Hawke just stands there going "DERRRR...." instead of explaining the situation.

Granted, the Resolutionists weren't helping matters, but they weren't the main reason for Kirkwall's problems.

EDIT: And given the Chantry's history of peace with the mages prior to Divine Justinia, I wasn't exactly about to say "Well she wants peace so she must be pro-mage!"

The evidence didn't establish that she was pro-mage.  But the combination of Leliana's established character and working for peace did strongly suggest that she wasn't particularly anti-mage.  And she doesn't exactly seem like a "harpy" in Leliana's song

Eh but characters change. What was true in one game isn't necessarily true for the sequel. Look at Anders. He didn't give much thought to helping his fellow mages in Awakening, yet in DAII that all changed.

Characters change, so I can't use Leliana's pro-mage character in one game as evidence of her being pro-mage in the next.

And as I said, working for peace doesn't mean much given the Chantry's history. So I think people having suspicions were justified in that thought process. Maybe a tad eccentric, but I don't know. Most people I know that are pro-mage are moderates, and I like to consider myself a moderate.

And I never played Leliana's Song. I know Dorothea comes off as a nice person there though, but I just used harpy in the sense of her being one towards mages and not one in general.

Сообщение изменено: The Ethereal Writer Redux, 12 Декабрь 2011 - 03:43 .

[TEWR]

Lawliet89 wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

How much does the book reference the events of DA2, and what does it say about them?

They mostly mention the increased tensions that the templars have with the mages due to the events in Kirkwall. Doesn't say what happened after that there.

Did bioware change Orsino's horrendous and stupid fate at the end of DAII? Like any mention of him being alive?

Please say yes

edit: assuming the way Gaider wrote it was with a pro-mage Hawke in mind.

Сообщение изменено: The Ethereal Writer Redux, 12 Декабрь 2011 - 03:23 .

[Brockololly]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Eh but characters change. What was true in one game isn't necessarily true for the sequel. Look at Anders. He didn't give much thought to helping his fellow mages in Awakening, yet in DAII that all changed.

Characters change, so I can't use Leliana's pro-mage character in one game as evidence of her being pro-mage in the next.

Difference being Anders was possessed by a demon.


Anyway, I sort of spoiled myself and went ahead and read the preview bits from google, which includes a fair bit of stuff at the end of the book.


Anyway, (going off of the excerpts from google, so maybe I'm totally getting the wrong impression) this Lord Seeker guy seems like a dick. In that, everybody else seems somewhat moderate yet this guy just barges down the door and wants to go murder happy and tranquil everyone. I mean, you've got the Divine seemingly willing to work with the mages, then the mage point of view is filled with familiar sympathetic characters like Wynne and Fiona. Yet the Templar/Seeker point of view seems devoid of any likeable or at least persuasive characters making a reasonable argument as to why mages should have some outside agency keeping watch over them.  So it ends up seeming like the mages+Divine+"good" Seekers that support the Divine (Leliana, Cassandra) versus those dastardly evil Templars and Lord Seeker guy who just wants to kill all the mages and make them all tranquil.  It just seems to reset everything to Origins where most everyone sympathized with the mages with the mages playing the victim to the big bad Templars/Seekers.

Сообщение изменено: Brockololly, 12 Декабрь 2011 - 04:01 .

[TEWR]

Brockololly wrote...

Difference being Anders was possessed by a demon.

He says in banter with Isabela that after that conversation he had with Justice his mind kept lingering on that thought of helping mages.

his character changed without Justice's intervention. Justice only helped further the change.


[*]Anders: Sometimes, I think you have the right idea.
[*]Isabela: Handcuffs, whipped cream, always be on top?
[*]Anders: I never used to give two bits what anyone thought of me.
[*]Anders: Justice once asked me why I didn't do more for other mages. I told him it was too much work.
[*]Anders: But I couldn't go back after that. Couldn't stop thinking about it.
[*]Anders: Sometimes, I miss being that selfish.
[*]Isabela: Huh? Were you talking? I was still at "whipped cream."

Сообщение изменено: The Ethereal Writer Redux, 12 Декабрь 2011 - 04:15 .

[Addai]

Leliana is in the book? You've got to be kidding me. That nutter is like static cling.

[Lawliet89]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Lawliet89 wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

How much does the book reference the events of DA2, and what does it say about them?

They mostly mention the increased tensions that the templars have with the mages due to the events in Kirkwall. Doesn't say what happened after that there.

Did bioware change Orsino's horrendous and stupid fate at the end of DAII? Like any mention of him being alive?

Please say yes

edit: assuming the way Gaider wrote it was with a pro-mage Hawke in mind.

I think Orsino does the same thing no matter who you sided in the game. No mention.

[Lawliet89]

Brockololly wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Eh but characters change. What was true in one game isn't necessarily true for the sequel. Look at Anders. He didn't give much thought to helping his fellow mages in Awakening, yet in DAII that all changed.

Characters change, so I can't use Leliana's pro-mage character in one game as evidence of her being pro-mage in the next.

Difference being Anders was possessed by a demon.


Anyway, I sort of spoiled myself and went ahead and read the preview bits from google, which includes a fair bit of stuff at the end of the book.


Anyway, (going off of the excerpts from google, so maybe I'm totally getting the wrong impression) this Lord Seeker guy seems like a dick. In that, everybody else seems somewhat moderate yet this guy just barges down the door and wants to go murder happy and tranquil everyone. I mean, you've got the Divine seemingly willing to work with the mages, then the mage point of view is filled with familiar sympathetic characters like Wynne and Fiona. Yet the Templar/Seeker point of view seems devoid of any likeable or at least persuasive characters making a reasonable argument as to why mages should have some outside agency keeping watch over them.  So it ends up seeming like the mages+Divine+"good" Seekers that support the Divine (Leliana, Cassandra) versus those dastardly evil Templars and Lord Seeker guy who just wants to kill all the mages and make them all tranquil.  It just seems to reset everything to Origins where most everyone sympathized with the mages with the mages playing the victim to the big bad Templars/Seekers.

Yea the Lord Seeker does get on my nerves. But according to him, he came from Tervinter where he saw the mages doing horrible things. That's his perspective on why he is so hard on the mages.

[TEWR]

Lawliet89 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Lawliet89 wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

How much does the book reference the events of DA2, and what does it say about them?

They mostly mention the increased tensions that the templars have with the mages due to the events in Kirkwall. Doesn't say what happened after that there.

Did bioware change Orsino's horrendous and stupid fate at the end of DAII? Like any mention of him being alive?

Please say yes

edit: assuming the way Gaider wrote it was with a pro-mage Hawke in mind.

I think Orsino does the same thing no matter who you sided in the game. No mention.

I know. I was hoping Bioware saw the folly of making him fight a pro-mage Hawke and retconned it to make him live.

Now I'm going to go cry some more

[DKJaigen]

Brockololly wrote...
. Yet the Templar/Seeker point of view seems devoid of any likeable or at least persuasive characters making a reasonable argument as to why mages should have some outside agency keeping watch over them.  So it ends up seeming like the mages+Divine+"good" Seekers that support the Divine (Leliana, Cassandra) versus those dastardly evil Templars and Lord Seeker guy who just wants to kill all the mages and make them all tranquil.  It just seems to reset everything to Origins where most everyone sympathized with the mages with the mages playing the victim to the big bad Templars/Seekers.

What do you expect? The templars have divine right to watch over the mages they dont need arguments. And this doesnt reset the setting to dao. Dao showed the templars at their best and DA2 showed templars at their worst.

[Zjarcal]

Addai67 wrote...

Leliana is in the book? You've got to be kidding me. That nutter is like static cling.

MWAHAHA!! She will haunt you forever and ever. 

[Mr.House]

Addai67 wrote...

Leliana is in the book? You've got to be kidding me. That nutter is like static cling.