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[Urzon]

Gervaise wrote...
 they should now revert to the original role of the Inquisition.

NO ONE EXPECTS THE TEMPLAR INQUISITION!!!

Sorry, I had to do it.

I am not exactly clear why they would look for the Warden but Wynne was apparently given some powerful and possibly evil artifact by the Warden so I suppose it is possible that in the Canon version the warden was a mage or simply that as a hero of the Blight.

I wonder if the evil artifact the Warden gave her was one of her gifts in-game. You can rule out the bottle of wine, the genealogy book, and the harlequinn novel. That leaves the book on dragon blood, the Andraste's a mage book, and the mystery box gift, the fancy scroll. I only leave the scroll on the list because, i find it hard to imagine any scroll being fancy after being left in a decaying ruin for centuries.

[Brockololly]

Gervaise wrote...
I am not exactly clear why they would look for the Warden but Wynne was apparently given some powerful and possibly evil artifact by the Warden so I suppose it is possible that in the Canon version the warden was a mage or simply that as a hero of the Blight, both sides might be willing to listen to them if Cassandra could persuade them to side with the Divine.

Is Hawke ever even referenced in the book at all by name?

And what makes you think the artifact the Warden supposedly gave Wynne is something evil? Does Gaider canonize the Warden in the book in any way, by referencing their gender or having them do actions which didn't occur in the games?

[Heimdall]

I'm also curious. In what context and how much are Hawke and the Warden mentioned or described?

[Teddie Sage]

Wait... So Wynne dies in Asunder? I take it not everyone from the past games will return for DA3.

Meanwhile, knowing that Justina is pro-mage, there's this song going through my head.

Modifié par Teddie Sage, 16 décembre 2011 - 03:36 .

[SkittlesKat96]

I wonder if the 'original plan' that Cassandra mentions to Leliana is a really drastic plan...

Its obviously an alternative plan, and Leliana says 'Its in the makers hands now' as if some serious stuff is going to happen, so from the sounds of it Cassandra and the Seekers who want to prevent war (and Leliana, who is the right hand of the Divine) are about to do something drastic/serious.

Also I wouldn't be surprised if the Qunari did try to launch an attack (during or after whatever happens)

Not only would Thedas be weakened and ripe for them to take but it would also be in disorder and chaos and this could possibly greaten the desire of the Qunari to take over Thedas and shape things their way and bring order their way

Modifié par SkittlesKat96, 16 décembre 2011 - 07:10 .

[Great_Horn]

Brockololly wrote...

Gervaise wrote...
I am not exactly clear why they would look for the Warden but Wynne was apparently given some powerful and possibly evil artifact by the Warden so I suppose it is possible that in the Canon version the warden was a mage or simply that as a hero of the Blight, both sides might be willing to listen to them if Cassandra could persuade them to side with the Divine.

Is Hawke ever even referenced in the book at all by name?

And what makes you think the artifact the Warden supposedly gave Wynne is something evil? Does Gaider canonize the Warden in the book in any way, by referencing their gender or having them do actions which didn't occur in the games?

I can’t remember reading the name Hawke in the whole novel. Only the madman Anders!

The references to the Warden are similar to DA:2. There are only tiny bits of informations.
In den novel it seems like Wynne and Shale accomplished together with the Warden all major
quests thru Ferleden. The rescue of the Circle and Redcliffe are short mentioned by Wynn.

As for this evil staff the Warden gave Wynn, well take it with a grain of salt.

Modifié par Great_Horn, 16 décembre 2011 - 09:24 .

[Bayz]

Urzon wrote...

I wonder if the evil artifact the Warden gave her was one of her gifts in-game. You can rule out the bottle of wine, the genealogy book, and the harlequinn novel. That leaves the book on dragon blood, the Andraste's a mage book, and the mystery box gift, the fancy scroll. I only leave the scroll on the list because, i find it hard to imagine any scroll being fancy after being left in a decaying ruin for centuries.

You mean you could give her anything more than alcohol? Geez and you had me trying to get her drunk to see if she would go crazy on the camp and show us her ti...time experience, yeah, that. Zevran did it.

I'm pretty sure the artifact of doom was the ragged ball that sometimes dog gives to you. You gave it to her and evil happened around.

Is the cenobitic ragged ball from hell!!!

[Gervaise]

Bearing in mind when Asunder occurs, the reason Hawke is not mentioned is that possibly the Divine and Lelianna are as yet unclear on the precise details other than Anders blew up the Chantry. Hawke as Vicount would not warrant a mention anyway since they supported the Templars and pro-mage Hawke left straight after the battle and the Templars probably preferred to forget the role they played in exposing Meredith. After everything starts to fall to pieces, Cassandra is then sent to get the story straight from Varric in case it will shed any light on how to resolve the matter and if it seems likely to be helpful, to try and enlist Hawke's support.

The staff the Warden gave to Wynne seemed to respond to her emotions in much the same way a demon would, feeding off them and enhacing them and was something she didn't think the Templars should know she had - so I presume the creation of blood magic. Evangeline could also sense its evil. I don't recall anything like that in game but I am willing to be corrected on that.

[LobselVith8]

Great_Horn wrote...

It’s what Cassandra said: Not ALL of us desire war.

It seems that at least there is even a small fraction of Seekers who turned against the Lord Seeker. That’s why Cassandra seeks Hawke, cause she wants to prevent the upcoming conflict hence I don’t understand why they would look for the Warden.

I imagine it would make sense if The Warden was from the Surana or Amell background, and asked the new ruler of Ferelden for the mages of the Circle of Ferelden to be emancipated from the Chantry of Andraste and the Order of Templars, with the new ruler publicly agreeing with the Hero of Ferelden's request. It's not hard to imagine that particular royal boon causing waves among templars and mages across Thedas, especially coming from a hero who stopped the Fifth Blight and saved the world from the latest Archdemon.

Otherwise, I agree - I don't see why Leliana would seek out The Warden if he (or she) isn't a mage, especially if the conflict pertains to mages and templars.

[Gervaise]

If you think about it, during their quest to recruit allies the Warden was actively engaged in either saving mages at the Circle or aiding Templars to cleanse the tower, so pretty much a similar scenario to Hawke at the end of DA2. Hawke got their Champion status from defeating the Qunari, the Warden succeeded in stopping the Blight almost before it really got started and defeating the Archdemon and darkspawn army, so if Hawke is thought to be a hero with influence, the Warden must be doubly so. The Warden also succeeded in not only persuading ancient allies of the Wardens to honour their treaties but also uniting them into a cohesive unit. For good measure they also prevented civil war in Ferelden. All in all I would say that as an influential arbitrator between mages and templars the Warden had much a much better resume than Hawke.
That said, we are only assuming that Cassandra was looking for the Warden for the same reason that she was looking for Hawke. It could have entirely been that Lelianna knew that the Warden had gone missing simply because she had always kept in touch and so was aware of their disappearance without originally thinking it had anything to do with their quest for Hawke, until that is they discovered that Hawke had also gone missing too.

[LobselVith8]

Gervaise wrote...

If you think about it, during their quest to recruit allies the Warden was actively engaged in either saving mages at the Circle or aiding Templars to cleanse the tower, so pretty much a similar scenario to Hawke at the end of DA2.

I think the scenerios are very different, especially since the latter involves a public figure either supporting or violently opposing the Right of Annulment by killing templars and trying to kill the Knight-Commander.

Gervaise wrote...

Hawke got their Champion status from defeating the Qunari, the Warden succeeded in stopping the Blight almost before it really got started and defeating the Archdemon and darkspawn army, so if Hawke is thought to be a hero with influence, the Warden must be doubly so.

Hawke was directly involved in a schism between mages and templars that the Chantry believes played a part in the cold war between templars and mages, irrespective of what actually happened in Asunder, especially since Cassandra addresses rumors that Hawke had spread subversion against the Chantry. The Warden was a Grey Warden who did precisely what a Grey Warden is supposed to do - stop the Blight. Hawke is tied to the conflict between mages and templars, while The Warden isn't unless the protagonist was a mage and specifically asked the ruler to emancipate his people from the Chantry.

Gervaise wrote...

The Warden also succeeded in not only persuading ancient allies of the Wardens to honour their treaties but also uniting them into a cohesive unit. For good measure they also prevented civil war in Ferelden. All in all I would say that as an influential arbitrator between mages and templars the Warden had much a much better resume than Hawke.

I don't disagree that The Warden accomplished more than Hawke, or was even a more effective leader, but The Warden isn't a hero to the templars or the mages simply by virtue of being the Hero of Ferelden, and the accomplishments in the different societies that transpired were only possible because it took place during the Fifth Blight. That said, I still don't see why Cassandra would realistically think that one single man (or woman) could stop a war between a myraid of renegade templars and rebel mages across the entire continent. It seems like she's grasping for straws, really.

Gervaise wrote...

That said, we are only assuming that Cassandra was looking for the Warden for the same reason that she was looking for Hawke. It could have entirely been that Leliana knew that the Warden had gone missing simply because she had always kept in touch and so was aware of their disappearance without originally thinking it had anything to do with their quest for Hawke, until that is they discovered that Hawke had also gone missing too.

It could have been for a different reason, certainly. If The Warden left with Morrigan into the Eluvian and gave up his position as Warden-Commander for a life with his love and child, then he has been gone for some time, though...

[Heimdall]

I haven't read the book but in game they don't say they're looking for the Warden. They only mention that the Warden is missing. Could it be that they are more taking note that both these famous superstars have up and vanished from the face of Thedas? I think Leliana says something about it being more than a coincidence....

[Great_Horn]

Lord Aesir wrote...

I haven't read the book but in game they don't say they're looking for the Warden. They only mention that the Warden is missing. Could it be that they are more taking note that both these famous superstars have up and vanished from the face of Thedas? I think Leliana says something about it being more than a coincidence....

Actually, Cassandra said: So do we proceed with the original plan, or keep looking?

Modifié par Great_Horn, 17 décembre 2011 - 09:23 .

[Gervaise]

I think she means, do we proceed with the original plan or keep looking for Hawke. Whatever the original plan was, it didn't involve either Hawke or the Warden but that doesn't necessarily mean that they were looking for them both. However, as Lord Aesir says, one famous figure going missing might seem just unfortunate, but two disappearing without trace at around the same time would seem suspicious.

What the book seems to show is that the DAO companions did stay in touch after the Blight and so would be aware if one of them suddenly stopped communicating. Even if the companions weren't staying in touch, the news of the disappearance of such a prominent figure as the Warden would probably spread pretty quickly, particularly if the Wardens didn't want it kept a secret.

In most versions of DA2 we are given the impression that the Warden is back in Ferelden at the beginning of Act 3, certainly if Alistair is King but I seem also to recall that the end of Awakening mentions the Warden going missing in the future even though they elected to either serve the crown or build up the Wardens. I just assumed that this was some time in the future and they had departed on their Calling but the majority of citizens wouldn't be aware of this. However, if this was not the case, this would seem to tie in with the end of DA2. A romanced Lelianna makes some mention of the Warden as Sister Nightingale that implies at that time she knows where they are. If the original Warden sacrificed themself, then even the Orlesian Warden would be missed as they occupy a very high profile position in occupying the seat of Vigil's Keep, which the Grey Wardens wanted to succeed. So I would imagine the Warden vanishing without trace would be widely known.

[TEWR]

Random post: I apparently called Wynne's fate some time ago. I forgot I ever did that.

http://social.biowar...7176/18#8843818

Gervaise wrote...

In most versions of DA2 we are given the impression that the Warden is back in Ferelden at the beginning of Act 3, certainly if Alistair is King but I seem also to recall that the end of Awakening mentions the Warden going missing in the future even though they elected to either serve the crown or build up the Wardens. I just assumed that this was some time in the future and they had departed on their Calling but the majority of citizens wouldn't be aware of this. However, if this was not the case, this would seem to tie in with the end of DA2. A romanced Lelianna makes some mention of the Warden as Sister Nightingale that implies at that time she knows where they are. If the original Warden sacrificed themself, then even the Orlesian Warden would be missed as they occupy a very high profile position in occupying the seat of Vigil's Keep, which the Grey Wardens wanted to succeed. So I would imagine the Warden vanishing without trace would be widely known.

I actually thought some time ago that Bann Teagan's mentioning of the Warden was just a clever political maneuver because of the implications that might arise if the disappearance Hero of Ferelden was known throughout Thedas.

As such, that's always how I view that comment.

[Augustei]

So I guess by the fact that there is a guy with the title "Lord Seeker". The Mention from the templar in DA: Redemption that Cassandra is the head of the seekers is completely wrong? Geez it already had enough contradictions now thats another lol

[WhiteKnyght]

It's kinda interesting. From the way the OP describes some of the events of the book, I'm reminded of Star Wars: The Force Unleashed.

Big meeting of mages who discuss breaking away from the Chantry = Big meeting of politicians/etc who discuss rebelling against the Empire.

Lord-Seeker moves in and arrests them all forcibly = Vader comes in and arrests them all forcibly.

Wynne and friends go to rescue them and she ends up dying in the end = Galen Marek/Starkiller goes to rescue them and ends up dying.

Another big meeting and the First Enchanters decide to not surrender and fight for their freedom = Another big meeting and the policians and whatnot decide to officially rebel against the empire.

Also the way Wynne sacrifices herself to revive Evangeline reminds of of that chapter of Naruto where Lady Chiyo sacrifices herself to bring Gaara back.

LobselVith8 wrote...

Hawke was directly involved in a schism between mages and templars that the Chantry believes played a part in the cold war between templars and mages, irrespective of what actually happened in Asunder, especially since Cassandra addresses rumors that Hawke had spread subversion against the Chantry. The Warden was a Grey Warden who did precisely what a Grey Warden is supposed to do - stop the Blight. Hawke is tied to the conflict between mages and templars, while The Warden isn't unless the protagonist was a mage and specifically asked the ruler to emancipate his people from the Chantry.

Cassandra also admits that the seekers are working on assumption, not fact. Which is why they are bothering to interrogate Varric over what happened and not just squeeze him to disclose Hawke's location.

[Gervaise]

The templar in Redemption could simply have been mistaken or Cassandra had been moved to other duties by the Divine in the time between Redemption and Asunder and replaced by the Lord Seeker in the book. Cassandra, like Lelianna, is clearly a trusted worker on behalf of the Divine and so whilst she might have originally been an ordinary seeker, her role now encompasses far more than that of the head of the Seekers. In fact, in view of what has transpired, it would hardly be appropriate to class her as either seeker or templar as in fact both of these organisations may well have broken away from the Chantry control. If she does head up an official religious order no doubt this will be made clear in DA3.

[jlb524]

Gervaise wrote...
In most versions of DA2 we are given the impression that the Warden is back in Ferelden at the beginning of Act 3, certainly if Alistair is King but I seem also to recall that the end of Awakening mentions the Warden going missing in the future even though they elected to either serve the crown or build up the Wardens.

The epilogue's aren't to be taken seriously XD

Gervaise wrote... 
I just assumed that this was some time in the future and they had departed on their Calling but the majority of citizens wouldn't be aware of this.

It wouldn't be time for the Warden's calling yet.

Gervaise wrote...  
A romanced Lelianna makes some mention of the Warden as Sister Nightingale that implies at that time she knows where they are.

I wouldn't necessarily say that.  I believe the only thing Leliana says is:  'She/he is dear to my heart.'  Leliana looks a bit sad when she says that, which could mean that the Warden is missing at that point if you agree with Writer Redux's theory that Alistair was trying to cover up the Warden's disappearance.   I think Leliana would still use 'is' in this case because she doesn't know if the Warden has perished or not (and is trying to stay optimistic).

Though, I believe her sadness is due to her own duty as 'Divine's Left Hand' pulling her away from spending time with the Warden...even in that case, she might not know exactly where the Warden is.

LobselVith8 wrote...
Hawke was directly involved in a schism between mages and templars that the Chantry believes played a part in the cold war between templars and mages, irrespective of what actually happened in Asunder, especially since Cassandra addresses rumors that Hawke had spread subversion against the Chantry. The Warden was a Grey Warden who did precisely what a Grey Warden is supposed to do - stop the Blight. Hawke is tied to the conflict between mages and templars, while The Warden isn't unless the protagonist was a mage and specifically asked the ruler to emancipate his people from the Chantry.

The Warden is still respected by many people.  Having her/him on your side would 'look good' if nothing else.  Plus, the Warden possibly made some powerful friends....that's if Cassandra was looking for the Warden, which I don't believe is the case. 

Modifié par jlb524, 17 décembre 2011 - 06:52 .

[Wulfram]

Doesn't Leliana say "is" even if the Warden died killing the Archdemon?

Merrill refers to Mahariel as "the lost warden" at the start of act 3

[ladyofpayne]

I'd like to see Wynn son. It seems he is templar.

[Gervaise]

Wynne's son is not a templar but his father was and the love of his life is an ex-templar - she and the Lord Seeker had a disagreement. I hope we get to meet them in DA3.

[Ulicus]

Great_Horn wrote...

The references to the Warden are similar to DA:2. There are only tiny bits of informations.
In den novel it seems like Wynne and Shale accomplished together with the Warden all major
quests thru Ferleden. The rescue of the Circle and Redcliffe are short mentioned by Wynn.

Yeah.

I didn't at all mind that the ASUNDER-verse (Thedasunder? ) established that Wynne and Shale survived the events of DA:O -- they were both, I think, used very well by the novel's narrative (as was Leliana) -- but I was a little put out that not a single one of my many, many DA:O playthroughs lined up with the novel's universe because of unneccessary mention of Wynne and/or Shale being in the party for certain events.

Though it wasn't exactly the end of the world, I grant you.

[Wulfram]

The fact that the Warden leaves behind most of the companions to sit in camp because they've got an arbitrary limit on party size isn't something that can sensibly be translated to a story. So it makes sense to assume that the Warden generally took everyone with them

[Ulicus]

Wulfram wrote...

The fact that the Warden leaves behind most of the companions to sit in camp because they've got an arbitrary limit on party size isn't something that can sensibly be translated to a story. So it makes sense to assume that the Warden generally took everyone with them

Except this explicitly isn't the case with the battle against the arch demon atop Fort Drakon, which is one of the events referenced.