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[nos_astra]

You mean Riordan's "we need to split up so the Archdemon won't notice we're coming"-excuse?

[Ulicus]

klarabella wrote...

You mean Riordan's "we need to split up so the Archdemon won't notice we're coming"-excuse?

Leaving people behind to cover your back, hold the walls and co-ordinate the defence seemed sensible enough to me. *shrug*

And it never hurts to have people in reserve in case the first plan of attack goes belly up.

EDIT:
Regardless of the merits of Riordan's plan, however,  I'm referring more to the characters having "goodbye" dialogues in which they acknowledge who is being left behind and whatnot. It can't just be dismissed as "well, everyone was actually there and no-one was left at the gates".

Still, this really wasn't a big deal. It was a minor quibble, as quibbles go.

Modifié par Ulicus, 18 décembre 2011 - 07:52 .

[Mayorin]

What about Rhys's father? Does Wynne tell anything about him?

[WhiteKnyght]

Ulicus wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

The fact that the Warden leaves behind most of the companions to sit in camp because they've got an arbitrary limit on party size isn't something that can sensibly be translated to a story. So it makes sense to assume that the Warden generally took everyone with them

Except this explicitly isn't the case with the battle against the arch demon atop Fort Drakon, which is one of the events referenced.

It's been said by Gaider that the book follows it's own canon. If you did it differently in your playthrough, it the novel happened differently than what you've read.

Gervaise wrote...

Wynne's son is not a templar but his father was.

Interesting. I wonder if Wynne had a consentual affair or if she was raped by this templar. Anders does say in DAII that it does happen(he's personally seen the best and worst of the Circle).

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 18 décembre 2011 - 11:34 .

[King Cousland]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Ulicus wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

The fact that the Warden leaves behind most of the companions to sit in camp because they've got an arbitrary limit on party size isn't something that can sensibly be translated to a story. So it makes sense to assume that the Warden generally took everyone with them

Except this explicitly isn't the case with the battle against the arch demon atop Fort Drakon, which is one of the events referenced.

It's been said by Gaider that the book follows it's own canon. If you did it differently in your playthrough, it the novel happened differently than what you've read.

Gervaise wrote...

Wynne's son is not a templar but his father was.

Interesting. I wonder if Wynne had a consentual affair or if she was raped by this templar. Anders does say in DAII that it does happen(he's personally seen the best and worst of the Circle).

He has, but his vehement stance allows him to see his experiences as all bad, even the moderate Fereldan Circle. Anyway, the info about the book is interesting, though since David Gaider tweeted what he did, I think I'll wait till I get my hands on it myself before takign it as Gospel. 

[WhiteKnyght]

harkness72 wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Ulicus wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

The fact that the Warden leaves behind most of the companions to sit in camp because they've got an arbitrary limit on party size isn't something that can sensibly be translated to a story. So it makes sense to assume that the Warden generally took everyone with them

Except this explicitly isn't the case with the battle against the arch demon atop Fort Drakon, which is one of the events referenced.

It's been said by Gaider that the book follows it's own canon. If you did it differently in your playthrough, it the novel happened differently than what you've read.

Gervaise wrote...

Wynne's son is not a templar but his father was.

Interesting. I wonder if Wynne had a consentual affair or if she was raped by this templar. Anders does say in DAII that it does happen(he's personally seen the best and worst of the Circle).

He has, but his vehement stance allows him to see his experiences as all bad, even the moderate Fereldan Circle. Anyway, the info about the book is interesting, though since David Gaider tweeted what he did, I think I'll wait till I get my hands on it myself before takign it as Gospel. 

If Wynne was dating a templar it would explain her acceptance of them.

I wonder who it is exactly. It'd be funny if it turned out to be Greagoir. He definitely looks old enough.

[Ulicus]

I really like that Griegor is a possibility. Though I wouldn't be adverse to learning it was an unknown character, either.

The Grey Nayr wrote...

It's been said by Gaider that the book follows it's own canon.

Yeah, I understand this -- and I'm more than cool with it for plot vital stuff.

I mean, that Wynne was a companion of the Warden and a hero of the Fifth Blight is essential to the narrative: it's why she's respected and given the leeway she is. It's how she knows Shale and Leliana and, by extension, has a certain amount of influence with the Divine. It's vital. It needs to be in there. I don't care in the slightest that it conflicts with however many of my playthroughs where I played a murderous douche who topped Wynne at the first (or second) opportunity. Or, y'know, didn't recruit her.

It was only the unnecessarily specific references -- those that didn't seem required by the narrative -- that I thought the book would have been better off without. Especially since they were so few and far between anyway.

Modifié par Ulicus, 19 décembre 2011 - 12:25 .

[WhiteKnyght]

Ulicus wrote...

I really like that Griegor is a possibility. Though I wouldn't be adverse to learning it was an unknown character, either.

The Grey Nayr wrote...

It's been said by Gaider that the book follows it's own canon.

Yeah, I understand this -- and I'm more than cool with it for plot vital stuff.

I mean, that Wynne was a companion of the Warden and a hero of the Fifth Blight is essential to the narrative: it's why she's respected and given the leeway she is. It's how she knows Shale and Leliana and, by extension, has a certain amount of influence with the Divine. It's vital. It needs to be in there. I don't care in the slightest that it conflicts with however many of my playthroughs where I played a murderous douche who topped Wynne at the first (or second) opportunity. Or, y'know, didn't recruit her.

It was only the unnecessarily specific references -- those that didn't seem required by the narrative -- that I thought the book would have been better off without. Especially since they were so few and far between anyway.

You forget that Wynne was already a respected Senior Enchanter before she even met the Warden. She's got decades of life that she never goes into detail about with the Warden. So it's not outside the realm of possibility that she had strong connections regardless of the Warden.

I think this is one of the points David Gaider tries to make to people. We all look at things linearly, we think 'this could have only happened because "I" did this' instead of considering that there might be something in the massive amounts of information we've yet to be given.

Also considering that David Gaider is a professional writer who is very well educated. I don't think that you have any right or any good reason to proclaim that something must or must not be in his book. You can offer opinions, but at the end of the day it's his choice.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 19 décembre 2011 - 02:47 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

So do they actually (and permanently) cure a Tranquil in Asunder? Or is it just theorising at this point, no matter how certain the character sounds?

(Because really, I don't know why Morrigan was so absolutely sure Flemeth's OGB plan would work, but a revelation, inspired or not, has to be wrong at some point. Next the Grey Wardens will be announcing they know how <spoiler> was cured of the incurable Taint.)

[Heimdall]

Hm, the implication of Wynne and Shale's involvement doesn't really bother me.

Then again I don't know the details yet.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 19 décembre 2011 - 05:38 .

[Augustei]

So what is the books established Canon exactly of what is mentioned? The Warden killed the Archdemon, the circle and redcliffe were saved. What of the Anvil of the Void or Orzammar and The Ferelden Monarchy.. are these mentioned?

[Ulicus]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

You forget that Wynne was already a respected Senior Enchanter before she even met the Warden. She's got decades of life that she never goes into detail about with the Warden. So it's not outside the realm of possibility that she had strong connections regardless of the Warden.

I think this is one of the points David Gaider tries to make to people. We all look at things linearly, we think 'this could have only happened because "I" did this' instead of considering that there might be something in the massive amounts of information we've yet to be given.

This has little to do with anything I was saying.  Sure, the story could still work in broad strokes if Wynne was just a senior enchanter. There could even be some sort of stand-in character if she died during the events of DA:O. Neverthless, I'm saying that ASUNDER's plot is much better for it being established that Wynne is alive and a long term companion of the Hero of Ferelden.

The benefit of making this clear far, far outweighs any that might have been had from writing the story in some vague fashion in which Wynne may or may not have travelled with the Warden, or may or may not even be Wynne.

So, in that sense, it's pretty much vital. We needed to know it.

The Grey Nayr wrote...
Also considering that David Gaider is a professional writer who is very well educated. I don't think that you have any right or any good reason to proclaim that something must or must not be in his book. You can offer opinions, but at the end of the day it's his choice.

Back when the novel was announced, David said:

"In the case of the novel, it takes a few events/characters that have variable outcomes in the games and it chooses one-- establishing an internal canon which is necessary simply by virtue of what it is. If you're worried about this doing so extensively, don't be. I tend to avoid such references unless required."

I accept that wholeheartedly. It is, I think, the best way to go about writing these novels. That's why I only picked up on the references that I felt weren't required, that weren't necessary.

They weren't a big deal, even so, and at this point I'm just  annoyed at myself for getting into a back-and-forth to further clarify my thoughts on something I didn't even care about overmuch.

It was a freakin' nitpick! I'm allowed to have nitpicks!

Here's another one: Fiona's hair has changed from mousy brown to black. OUTRAGE. 

Shadow of Light and Dragon wrote...

So do they actually (and permanently) cure a Tranquil in Asunder? Or is it just theorising at this point, no matter how certain the character sounds?

It's not just theory. I was dubious to start with but it's handled fairly well. Given the details, one has to wonder how many times the process has been discovered and then covered-up by the Chantry throughout history.

I'd be very surprised if this was the first time someone figured out how to do it.

XxDeonxX wrote...

What of the Anvil of the Void or
Orzammar and The Ferelden Monarchy.. are these mentioned?

No.

Though presumably ASUNDER will fit in with the upcoming DA comic, in which Alistair is monarch.

Modifié par Ulicus, 19 décembre 2011 - 09:28 .

[Dave of Canada]

I'll admit that I don't know much of the details of the Tranquil cure, though would it work on somebody who isn't tranquil, when a similar process applied is to them... could it "link" them to the fade, therefore making them mages? I mean, there's a difference between Tranquil (who are completely cut off) and normies (who have a weak link) but it's a thought.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 19 décembre 2011 - 10:04 .

[Ulicus]

I wouldn't think so, no. And that's even presupposing that a mage's power stems from their Fade connection, rather than something innate that allows them to make use of their connection in a way mundanes cannot.

Not that there might not be other ways to awaken magery in mundanes: it'd just be something different.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

So you do actually *witness* a Tranquil being cured?

(Sorry to be specific about this, I just want a plain yes or no XD I appreciate the time you're taking )

Currently I am dubious myself, as it sounds like you need a spirit or demon's help. Yet demons carry obvious risks, and spirits are supposed to practically avoid mortals. The procedure for getting a Tranquil into the Fade alone has to be more complex than faceplanting into a basin of lyrium, or so I would hope.

You are making it sound like the process has been tinkered with for some time though. Any mention of how this person comes to their discovery that the Tranquil has to cross over to be cured?

[Ulicus]

You don't witness it happening, no, but you have the process explained and meet someone who was tranquil and no longer is.

As for whether or not the process has been tinkered with for some time or not, that's just speculation on my part. As far as anyone in the story knows, this is the first time it's been looked into and undertaken. Yet, though certainly risky, it didn't strike me as being especially complex so I wouldn't be surprised if it had been discovered and covered up a bunch of times throughout history.

I did find it hard to believe that a mage-centric society like Tevinter wouldn't have already figured out how to do it.

Either way, the ramifications are (obviously) massive. I almost wish this plot point had come up in DA2, somewhere, rather than in the EU.

Modifié par Ulicus, 19 décembre 2011 - 11:36 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Excellent, thanks for the clarification. I retain my suspicions if stuff is not witnessed, as Bioware writers are not above being deliberately misleading or outright changing their minds for story purposes. In more modern terms: "Screenshots or it didn't happen." Unless the screenshots are of epilogue slides, I guess...

Anyway, as far as Tevinter is concerned, I don't know. Maybe they have tried and just never figured it out. It's supposed to take a lot of lyrium to enter the Fade, and that stuff is meant to be very expensive in the Imperium.

[Heimdall]

In the Imperium I wouldn't be surprised if they had no need to study it. After all, the Magisters in charge probably rarely make anyone Tranquil. If they need to remove someone in a permanent fashion they would just kill them. They have slaves to do housework anyway and you can't inspire fear into Tranquil. The only advantage to having a Tranquil in Tervinter would be enchantment and it's not as if Tranquility is prerequisite to being able to perform enchantments. It's just riskier.

[Ulicus]

I meant more along the lines of the Imperium seeing value in knowledge capable of driving a giant wedge between the non-Imperial Chantry and its Circles.

[Wulfram]

Why would magisters waste their time curing the weak and defeated? Tevinters are pretty much Always Chaotic Evil anyway.

Anyway, breakthroughs happen.

[LobselVith8]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Hawke was directly involved in a schism between mages and templars that the Chantry believes played a part in the cold war between templars and mages, irrespective of what actually happened in Asunder, especially since Cassandra addresses rumors that Hawke had spread subversion against the Chantry. The Warden was a Grey Warden who did precisely what a Grey Warden is supposed to do - stop the Blight. Hawke is tied to the conflict between mages and templars, while The Warden isn't unless the protagonist was a mage and specifically asked the ruler to emancipate his people from the Chantry.

Cassandra also admits that the seekers are working on assumption, not fact. Which is why they are bothering to interrogate Varric over what happened and not just squeeze him to disclose Hawke's location.

I don't dispute that, but it makes sense that Cassandra would investigate the issue of Hawke, while it doesn't really add up that the Seekers would try to locate The Warden to aid in a dispute between mages and templars if The Warden isn't a mage.

[Heimdall]

Ulicus wrote...

I meant more along the lines of the Imperium seeing value in knowledge capable of driving a giant wedge between the non-Imperial Chantry and its Circles.

I think the Imperium tends to spend more time ignoring the Chantry in Orlais than plotting against it.  It's the Qunari they worry about, and they don't bother with any of this Tranquility business.

[Heimdall]

Ulicus wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

The fact that the Warden leaves behind most of the companions to sit in camp because they've got an arbitrary limit on party size isn't something that can sensibly be translated to a story. So it makes sense to assume that the Warden generally took everyone with them

Except this explicitly isn't the case with the battle against the arch demon atop Fort Drakon, which is one of the events referenced.

While that is true, it's worth noting that the Fort Drakon mission is also the one with probably the least impact caused by who you bring with you.  It doesn't even spawn many unique comments.  So it's not too breaking to anyone's unique canon.

[LobselVith8]

Wulfram wrote...

The fact that the Warden leaves behind most of the companions to sit in camp because they've got an arbitrary limit on party size isn't something that can sensibly be translated to a story. So it makes sense to assume that the Warden generally took everyone with them

Given that The Warden can lie to Leliana about what happened to the Urn of Sacred Ashes, maybe The Warden leaves behind a small contingent of people for a reason (perhaps in case things go wrong).

[PinkDiamondstl]

Is the book posted on a website somewere?