183 réponses à ce sujet

[Someone With Mass]

Ghost-621 wrote...

It's not so much realistic combat that I'm asking for, but thanks for the attempted insult. You and I both know that wasn't what I was getting at.

I just want something smarter than: Roll, shoot, roll, explode, roll.

And what do you have to prove that it's like that?

A trailer of a level that was edited to be about one minute which is similar to every other trailer at VGA? 

Ha.

[Terror_K]

Ghost-621 wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Don't get me wrong, some of the things ME3 is implementing are just plain stupid, and that's coming from a massive Mass Effect fan who has spend a least a grand on memorobilia. However, I think Mass Effect 3 will be all we hoped for and more, I just think we need to be open and hope it isn't influanced to much by outside sources. Some are fine, but to be a clone is not. 

There is a very fine line between streamlining and dumbing-down (Which is what ME2 did in most aspects). This is the primary concern of most Mass Effect 1 fans, having seen what Gears of War is, not having a problem that it is a TPS with all of the said elements, but to see almost all of them chucked into Mass Effect, while ripping out more of the intellectual and/or tactical elements, making it into something that was never really meant to be.

I'm fine with Gears of War, as Gears of War. I'm not fine with Mass Effect trying to be Gears of War.

Being influenced by outside sources is fine. One expects developers to look at the work of other developers and get an idea of what works. Copy n' pasting it straight out of one game and into another and not really doing a good job of adapting it properly because your game is actually a different genre is not fine. Many of my issues with ME2 stem from the fact that BioWare seemed to port over many TPS elements and just wedged them in there without properly adapting them for an RPG, which is essentially what Mass Effect is at its heart. In fact, many RPG aspects were pushed aside to make room for the TPS elements ported in and not really properly brought back, or at least not in a way that integrates it well with the more purely shooter combat gameplay ME2 had.

Simply put, Mass Effect 2's TPS elements should have been better integrated into the core gameplay and adapted to it more. Because they weren't the whole game felt like an inconsistent, unfocused mess that tried to be one thing one moment, and another the next, but was rarely ever both at the same time. Hence why many people have referred to ME2 as "Gears of War with dialogue choices" (or something similar).

[Ghost-621]

Terror_K wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Don't get me wrong, some of the things ME3 is implementing are just plain stupid, and that's coming from a massive Mass Effect fan who has spend a least a grand on memorobilia. However, I think Mass Effect 3 will be all we hoped for and more, I just think we need to be open and hope it isn't influanced to much by outside sources. Some are fine, but to be a clone is not. 

There is a very fine line between streamlining and dumbing-down (Which is what ME2 did in most aspects). This is the primary concern of most Mass Effect 1 fans, having seen what Gears of War is, not having a problem that it is a TPS with all of the said elements, but to see almost all of them chucked into Mass Effect, while ripping out more of the intellectual and/or tactical elements, making it into something that was never really meant to be.

I'm fine with Gears of War, as Gears of War. I'm not fine with Mass Effect trying to be Gears of War.

Being influenced by outside sources is fine. One expects developers to look at the work of other developers and get an idea of what works. Copy n' pasting it straight out of one game and into another and not really doing a good job of adapting it properly because your game is actually a different genre is not fine. Many of my issues with ME2 stem from the fact that BioWare seemed to port over many TPS elements and just wedged them in there without properly adapting them for an RPG, which is essentially what Mass Effect is at its heart. In fact, many RPG aspects were pushed aside to make room for the TPS elements ported in and not really properly brought back, or at least not in a way that integrates it well with the more purely shooter combat gameplay ME2 had.

Simply put, Mass Effect 2's TPS elements should have been better integrated into the core gameplay and adapted to it more. Because they weren't the whole game felt like an inconsistent, unfocused mess that tried to be one thing one moment, and another the next, but was rarely ever both at the same time. Hence why many people have referred to ME2 as "Gears of War with dialogue choices" (or something similar).

You have a way with words, Terror_K.

And Someone With Mass, how can I "prove" it? Well, I've seen the gameplay videos, all of the leaks, and they all have the ported "ANGRY EYE LOOK HERE!" and the roll. Don't really know any better proof than that.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Terror_K wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Don't get me wrong, some of the things ME3 is implementing are just plain stupid, and that's coming from a massive Mass Effect fan who has spend a least a grand on memorobilia. However, I think Mass Effect 3 will be all we hoped for and more, I just think we need to be open and hope it isn't influanced to much by outside sources. Some are fine, but to be a clone is not. 

There is a very fine line between streamlining and dumbing-down (Which is what ME2 did in most aspects). This is the primary concern of most Mass Effect 1 fans, having seen what Gears of War is, not having a problem that it is a TPS with all of the said elements, but to see almost all of them chucked into Mass Effect, while ripping out more of the intellectual and/or tactical elements, making it into something that was never really meant to be.

I'm fine with Gears of War, as Gears of War. I'm not fine with Mass Effect trying to be Gears of War.

Being influenced by outside sources is fine. One expects developers to look at the work of other developers and get an idea of what works. Copy n' pasting it straight out of one game and into another and not really doing a good job of adapting it properly because your game is actually a different genre is not fine. Many of my issues with ME2 stem from the fact that BioWare seemed to port over many TPS elements and just wedged them in there without properly adapting them for an RPG, which is essentially what Mass Effect is at its heart. In fact, many RPG aspects were pushed aside to make room for the TPS elements ported in and not really properly brought back, or at least not in a way that integrates it well with the more purely shooter combat gameplay ME2 had.

Simply put, Mass Effect 2's TPS elements should have been better integrated into the core gameplay and adapted to it more. Because they weren't the whole game felt like an inconsistent, unfocused mess that tried to be one thing one moment, and another the next, but was rarely ever both at the same time. Hence why many people have referred to ME2 as "Gears of War with dialogue choices" (or something similar).

Magnificent post, Terror. I tip my hat to you, good sir.

Also, the expression is "Gears of War with a dialogue simulator". I believe Seb coined that phrase.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 12 décembre 2011 - 06:36 .

[Epic777]

Terror_K wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Don't get me wrong, some of the things ME3 is implementing are just plain stupid, and that's coming from a massive Mass Effect fan who has spend a least a grand on memorobilia. However, I think Mass Effect 3 will be all we hoped for and more, I just think we need to be open and hope it isn't influanced to much by outside sources. Some are fine, but to be a clone is not. 

There is a very fine line between streamlining and dumbing-down (Which is what ME2 did in most aspects). This is the primary concern of most Mass Effect 1 fans, having seen what Gears of War is, not having a problem that it is a TPS with all of the said elements, but to see almost all of them chucked into Mass Effect, while ripping out more of the intellectual and/or tactical elements, making it into something that was never really meant to be.

I'm fine with Gears of War, as Gears of War. I'm not fine with Mass Effect trying to be Gears of War.

Being influenced by outside sources is fine. One expects developers to look at the work of other developers and get an idea of what works. Copy n' pasting it straight out of one game and into another and not really doing a good job of adapting it properly because your game is actually a different genre is not fine. Many of my issues with ME2 stem from the fact that BioWare seemed to port over many TPS elements and just wedged them in there without properly adapting them for an RPG, which is essentially what Mass Effect is at its heart. In fact, many RPG aspects were pushed aside to make room for the TPS elements ported in and not really properly brought back, or at least not in a way that integrates it well with the more purely shooter combat gameplay ME2 had.

Simply put, Mass Effect 2's TPS elements should have been better integrated into the core gameplay and adapted to it more. Because they weren't the whole game felt like an inconsistent, unfocused mess that tried to be one thing one moment, and another the next, but was rarely ever both at the same time. Hence why many people have referred to ME2 as "Gears of War with dialogue choices" (or something similar).

Thats is my enigma with ME1. By your own standards ME1 is a poor RPG. It is KOTOR ~guns edition~. Most of the typical RPG points are poorly executed. The inventory and loot systems were terrible. But ME1 is still lauded for its RPG elements despite all this. How? 

Modifié par Epic777, 12 décembre 2011 - 06:45 .

[Someone With Mass]

Ghost-621 wrote...

You have a way with words, Terror_K.

And Someone With Mass, how can I "prove" it? Well, I've seen the gameplay videos, all of the leaks, and they all have the ported "ANGRY EYE LOOK HERE!" and the roll. Don't really know any better proof than that.

Oh, I didn't know that those were exclusive to Gears of War and automatically makes everything else they have shown about ME3 invalid and turns it into a Gears clone.

Please...

Come up with some real arguments.

[Ghost-621]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

You have a way with words, Terror_K.

And Someone With Mass, how can I "prove" it? Well, I've seen the gameplay videos, all of the leaks, and they all have the ported "ANGRY EYE LOOK HERE!" and the roll. Don't really know any better proof than that.

Oh, I didn't know that those were exclusive to Gears of War and automatically makes everything else they have shown about ME3 invalid and turns it into a Gears clone.

Please...

Come up with some real arguments.

Please...

Try arguing instead of following me around the forums trying to insult me.

When these features are shameless copies, with no change whatsoever, yes, Something With Mass, that does render the game in danger of being a clone.

[Reptilian Rob]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

You have a way with words, Terror_K.

And Someone With Mass, how can I "prove" it? Well, I've seen the gameplay videos, all of the leaks, and they all have the ported "ANGRY EYE LOOK HERE!" and the roll. Don't really know any better proof than that.

Oh, I didn't know that those were exclusive to Gears of War and automatically makes everything else they have shown about ME3 invalid and turns it into a Gears clone.

Please...

Come up with some real arguments.

You know, personal attacks arn't really considered valid arguments.

Just throwing that one out there.

Modifié par Reptilian Rob, 12 décembre 2011 - 06:57 .

[Sebby]

ME should have already have had a lot of the Gears TPS gameplay mechanics (like rolling and going from cover to cover) that was standard in Gears 1 (which was released 5 years ago and one year before ME1) from the get go instead of only NOW adding them in the third game.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Ghost-621 wrote...

You have a way with words, Terror_K.

And Someone With Mass, how can I "prove" it? Well, I've seen the gameplay videos, all of the leaks, and they all have the ported "ANGRY EYE LOOK HERE!" and the roll. Don't really know any better proof than that.

Oh, I didn't know that those were exclusive to Gears of War and automatically makes everything else they have shown about ME3 invalid and turns it into a Gears clone.

Please...

Come up with some real arguments.

You know, perosnal attacks arn't really considered valid arguments.

Just throwing that one out there.

Watch out: if you keep pointing out the many fallacies in his posts, he'll send you a PM telling you to "shut the **** up".

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 12 décembre 2011 - 06:54 .

[Someone With Mass]

Ghost-621 wrote...
Try arguing instead of following me around the forums trying to insult me.

When these features are shameless copies, with no change whatsoever, yes, Something With Mass, that does render the game in danger of being a clone.

However, it doesn't make it a clone.

Because then we can add every game that's ever had a status system or a certain type of weapon to the list.

Because it has all been done before.

[Someone With Mass]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
Watch out: if you keep pointing out the many fallacies in his posts, he'll send you a PM telling you to "shut the **** up".

Or maybe I'll just tell you to stop being so upset over it, apply lotion to your sore ass and move on with your merry little life.

I think everyone gets it. You're upset because your unsuitable expectations regarding the choices in the games were too high and now you're mad about it. Get over it already.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 12 décembre 2011 - 07:00 .

[LGTX]

This is a new low at nitpicking I've seen on these boards. Just being honest. 

Modifié par LGTX, 12 décembre 2011 - 06:59 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
Watch out: if you keep pointing out the many fallacies in his posts, he'll send you a PM telling you to "shut the **** up".

Or maybe I'll just tell you to stop being so upset over it, apply lotion to your sore ass and move on with your merry little life.

I think everyone gets it. You're upset because your unsuitable expectations regarding the choices in the games were too high and now you're mad about it. Get over it already.

I'm not upset over anything, I'm just warning the poor fella before you try to intimidate him into leaving as well.

As for my already low expectations, those were quite easily suitable.

[Someone With Mass]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

I'm not upset over anything, I'm just warning the poor fella before you try to intimidate him into leaving as well.

Oh, but I didn't try to intimidate you when I sent you that message. I actually wanted you to shut the **** up with your snide remarks that served absolutely no purpose but to annoy me.

There's a difference.

[Sebby]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

I'm not upset over anything, I'm just warning the poor fella before you try to intimidate him into leaving as well.

Oh, but I didn't try to intimidate you when I sent you that message. I actually wanted you to shut the **** up with your snide remarks that served absolutely no purpose but to annoy me.

There's a difference.

If you want him to STFU then you should lead by example.

[Sgt.Catman]

Man, i remember the days where video games were for the point of entertainment, not for arguing over every bit of detail like 5 year old kids.

[Reptilian Rob]

Sgt.Catman wrote...

Man, i remember the days where video games were for the point of entertainment, not for arguing over every bit of detail like 5 year old kids.

It's the facebook mentality, unfourtunatly. Everyone has an entitlement issues, and thinks they are truly individual and that entitles them to have things the way they want it. 

It's funny, because back when we had SNES, no one really cared how bad a game was, or how it was made. They just played the damn thing and had fun. Now it's more complex, with facebook drones and newage gamers not having that background, and only having that jumping in point of Playstation 2, Xbox or the late 90's PC. So the opinions and logic is based on that, and not the history that exsits in our medium. It's staggering how fast, or how people overlook history entierly. I remember the saying "those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it", and I think that's what gaming has boiled down to as of late. It's just a cluster**** of entiled children droning over how their favorite franchise is either better than yours, or the equally annoying "Oh lord what has *insert game here* come to!"

I wish, and hope that gamers as a whole can move past this mentality and just enjoy the games as they are meant to be. But as long as we have the immature nature of facebook, and the mentality that everyone is entitled to something drifting through our minds, I see no change coming anytime soon. 

You ever look at that 99% protest, and then look at the 1%? Then go do some research and find out how that 1% got there? Then you look back at the 99% and realize, "Huh, I guess you do have to work hard for what you want in life, and that nothing is given or handed to you on a silver platter." Per Aspera Ad Astra, and that's my motto. 

Modifié par Reptilian Rob, 12 décembre 2011 - 07:47 .

[Terror_K]

Epic777 wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Being influenced by outside sources is fine. One expects developers to look at the work of other developers and get an idea of what works. Copy n' pasting it straight out of one game and into another and not really doing a good job of adapting it properly because your game is actually a different genre is not fine. Many of my issues with ME2 stem from the fact that BioWare seemed to port over many TPS elements and just wedged them in there without properly adapting them for an RPG, which is essentially what Mass Effect is at its heart. In fact, many RPG aspects were pushed aside to make room for the TPS elements ported in and not really properly brought back, or at least not in a way that integrates it well with the more purely shooter combat gameplay ME2 had.

Simply put, Mass Effect 2's TPS elements should have been better integrated into the core gameplay and adapted to it more. Because they weren't the whole game felt like an inconsistent, unfocused mess that tried to be one thing one moment, and another the next, but was rarely ever both at the same time. Hence why many people have referred to ME2 as "Gears of War with dialogue choices" (or something similar).

Thats is my enigma with ME1. By your own standards ME1 is a poor RPG. It is KOTOR ~guns edition~. Most of the typical RPG points are poorly executed. The inventory and loot systems were terrible. But ME1 is still lauded for its RPG elements despite all this. How? 

Perhaps because at their core they were fine for the most part, but just not executed as well as they could have been. ME1 was a cinematic action RPG from the start, and didn't suffer from trying to suddenly force elements that didn't really suit it into itself, it merely executed suitable elements in a clumsy fashion. ME1 clearly wasn't trying to be the TPS with RPG elements that ME2 became, otherwise it would have incorporated a much simpler TPS approach to combat from the get-go instead of adding a stat-based form of combat ala an RPG (because it was one). ME2 was simply  "retooled for a new target demographic" and given the TPS make-over not because it was better for the gameplay and Mass Effect series, but because shooters are the big thing and big seller now, and appealing to the ADD-gamer set who want little more besides action and get bored and snitty if anything gets in the way of it too long or at any form of complexity. ME1 wasn't appreciated enough for what it was trying to be, so it changed with the sequel to suit common, mainstream tastes rather than continue to try and be what it set out to. ME1 wasn't supposed to be a TPS or play like one, but it looked like one and the Gears set expected it to play like one. So when it didn't and they kicked up a stink, BioWare made it more like one.

Someone With Mass wrote...

I think everyone gets it. You're upset because your unsuitable expectations regarding the choices in the games were too high and now you're mad about it. Get over it already.

I fail to see how people who expect Mass Effect to stay true to its and be a better RPG have "unsuitable expectations" exactly. Unless by "unsuitable" you mean "unsuitable for BioWare's overall new direction for their games.

Modifié par Terror_K, 12 décembre 2011 - 07:47 .

[Terror_K]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

It's funny, because back when we had SNES, no one really cared how bad a game was, or how it was made. They just played the damn thing and had fun. Now it's more complex, with facebook drones and newage gamers not having that background, and only having that jumping in point of Playstation 2, Xbox or the late 90's PC. So the opinions and logic is based on that, and not the history that exsits in our medium. It's staggering how fast, or how people overlook history entierly. I remember the saying "those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it", and I think that's what gaming has boiled down to as of late. It's just a cluster**** of entiled children droning over how their favorite franchise is either better than yours, or the equally annoying "Oh lord what has *insert game here* come to!"

I wish, and hope that gamers as a whole can move past this mentality and just enjoy the games as they are meant to be. But as long as we have the immature nature of facebook, and the mentality that everyone is entitled to something drifting through our minds, I see no change coming anytime soon.

Some people just want some consistency out of their favourite game IPs and want their games to be something they can continue to enjoy and remain essentially the same in tone, feel and style because that's why they got into it in the first place. It's hard to "just enjoy the games as they are meant to be" when the games can't even retain what they are meant to be, and instead keep getting retooled and rebooted to appeal to Johnny Mainstream.

I got into Mass Effect because it had some depth, weight, intelligence and maturity to it, and because it wasn't essentially the same mainstream, generic, oversimplified drivel made for the masses like most other AAA gaming titles these days are. And now as time goes on it seems to be becoming more and more like the very things the original game was so different from as BioWare and EA retool it for the mainstream market and seem to care about style over substance and more about getting more in than their existing fanbase.

It's not about entitlement so much as consistency and integrity of the franchise, and I believe that any IP, whether I like it or not, should remain consistent with itself and not just be retooled for the masses for the sake of profit. Mass Effect should always be Mass Effect, not Gears of Effect or Call of Effect or Haloffect or any other Effect. And CoD should always be CoD, Halo always Halo, and Gears always Gears, etc. That's also why Tomb Raider shouldn't become a gritty Uncharted clone, UFO: Enemy Unknown (or X-Com for you Yanks) a 1950's FPS, and Syndicate a gritty brown shooter.