364 réponses à ce sujet

[Bluko]

I don't care for Ammo Powers much. Namely cause the only good Ammo Power in ME2 was Inferno Ammo basically. Every thing else kind of pales in comparison in the ability to set things (multiple things) on fire. Also doesn't help Squad Ammo was buggy. Well Warp Ammo is okay, but the idea of "Biotic Ammo" is sheer sillyness.

That said it was nice to switch Ammo Powers on the fly, but honestly I hardly ever made use of it.  I mean who actually invests in more then one Ammo Power per Character? As Soldier I basically used Incedinary 90% of the time, and maybe switched to Disruptor against Heavy Shield opponents like YMIRs. I mean yeah it's nice I don't have to go digging through my inventory, but I dunno I really don't switch ammo that often.


I'd honestly rather see other Combat Abilities in place of Ammo Powers. You know stuff that does more then change the color of your bullets and whether your enemies freeze or burn. Generally I get the impression they added Ammo Powers because they couldn't think of anything else to give Players. I think the most disappointing thing about playing the Soldier in ME2 was  realizing that half my abilities were like Ammo.

Basically I was Slow-Mo Ammo Guy.


No offense, but the Gun Powers have always been absurd. I would have been happy that ME2 got rid of them, except well you still had them! They were absurd in ME1 (Assualt, Assasinate, Marksman) and they're still absurd in ME2 (not to mention they don't work properly and were very un-balanced). Well I take some of that back, Carnage was a fun ability in ME1 since it basically let you fire Rockets from your Shotgun.




However my opinion is that things like Ammo Types, Attachements, etc. should all be things you decide on when you're busy fiddling with your gun on the workbench before the mission or when there's a break in the action. (Oh the puns...) I probably would have had no issue with no "Inventory" if ME2 had offered something like this:


(Why ME2 didn't, even for just the weapons themselves, baffles me.)


I'm aware Bioware is trying to make the Ammo Powers more interesting/useful in ME3, but I dunno I'm just not all that excited about them being Magic Powers again. Give me some Tech Abilities,  Biotics, or something. Maybe give Soldier a Pain-Blocking ability (reduces Health Damage, think Immunity but less OP) or some sort of Run-Boost ability. Surely they could be a little more creative when coming up with abilities for the Combat classes other then falling back Ammo Powers.

I'd offer suggestions, but I fear it's probably too late to change anything now. It also doesn't help we haven't really seen much in terms of Powers other then a few in-game deomstrations. I mean I believe we've seen Soldier's Skill Tree, but that's about it.

[RoboticWater]

Bluko wrote...
That said it was nice to switch Ammo Powers on the fly, but honestly I hardly ever made use of it.  I mean who actually invests in more then one Ammo Power per Character? As Soldier I basically used Incedinary 90% of the time, and maybe switched to Disruptor against Heavy Shield opponents like YMIRs. I mean yeah it's nice I don't have to go digging through my inventory, but I dunno I really don't switch ammo that often.

What difficulty did you play on? Because they become very helpful on on insanity. Also, while changing ammo on the fly was not that important in ME 2 because it's missions only had one enemy specialization type, ME 3 seems to have much more diversity in enemies this time.  

I'd honestly rather see other Combat Abilities in place of Ammo Powers. You know stuff that does more then change the color of your bullets and whether your enemies freeze or burn. Generally I get the impression they added Ammo Powers because they couldn't think of anything else to give Players. I think the most disappointing thing about playing the Soldier in ME2 was  realizing that half my abilities were like Ammo.

The reason most of your abilities are ammo powers is because Bioware didn't want to give you lame passive abilities like ME1. And more interesting than burning and freezing things? Thats as interesting as you're probably going to get when it comes to shooting assult rifles. 

No offense, but the Gun Powers have always been absurd. I would have been happy that ME2 got rid of them, except well you still had them! They were absurd in ME1 (Assualt, Assasinate, Marksman) and they're still absurd in ME2 (not to mention they don't work properly and were very un-balanced). Well I take some of that back, Carnage was a fun ability in ME1 since it basically let you fire Rockets from your Shotgun.

Gun powers are the closest thing you are going to get to powers when it comes to soldier (other than concussive shot).

However my opinion is that things like Ammo Types, Attachements, etc. should all be things you decide on when you're busy fiddling with your gun on the workbench before the mission or when there's a break in the action. (Oh the puns...) I probably would have had no issue with no "Inventory" if ME2 had offered something like this:

As I've said before, adaptability. Soldiers are supposed to be the most adaptive players because of their multiple weapon types. Restricting the ability to switch ammo powers on the fly contradicts the whole purpose of the soldier

(Why ME2 didn't, even for just the weapons themselves, baffles me.)


I'm aware Bioware is trying to make the Ammo Powers more interesting/useful in ME3, but I dunno I'm just not all that excited about them being Magic Powers again. Give me some Tech Abilities,  Biotics, or something. Maybe give Soldier a Pain-Blocking ability (reduces Health Damage, think Immunity but less OP) or some sort of Run-Boost ability. Surely they could be a little more creative when coming up with abilities for the Combat classes other then falling back Ammo Powers.

The entire point of the soldier is not having these interesting abilities and just shooting things. IMO a "pain blocking ability" and a "speed increase ability" aren't that creative and don't offer more than adrenaline rush does already.

I'd offer suggestions, but I fear it's probably too late to change anything now. It also doesn't help we haven't really seen much in terms of Powers other then a few in-game deomstrations. I mean I believe we've seen Soldier's Skill Tree, but that's about it.

I'd like to hear them because I certainly can't think of anything interesting a soldier could do.

Modifié par BlahDog, 17 décembre 2011 - 03:40 .

[Someone With Mass]

The Concussion Shot in ME3 can carry the effect of any ammo power, by the way.

[Jog0907]

I agree with blahdog, adaptability and shooting should be the focus of the soldier and ammo powers enhance that.
Im also happy about that addition to concussive shot since it adds something the skill needed in me2 and that is synergy with other skills

[RoboticWater]

Calinstel wrote...

Jog0907 wrote...

I agree with blahdog, adaptability and shooting should be the focus of the soldier and ammo powers enhance that.
Im also happy about that addition to concussive shot since it adds something the skill needed in me2 and that is synergy with other skills

ME1 HAD that adaptability that is lacking in ME2.  The only thing that limited a soldier in ME1 was not finding/buying the mods he/she wanted.
In ME2, you had to pick and choose squadmates just to get the mod you wanted.  As a result, unless you took the characters BW wanted you to use and not the ones you, the player, wanted, you were limited.

Adaptability for the soldier, the other classes have their tech and biotic abilities to back them up. When you give the ability to strengthen your weapon to biotics, their powers become less necessary.  

And I prefer Mass Effect to limit you when making tactical decisions, not monetary ones. Instead of thinking "Should I get this armor or this mod?" you need to think "When I choose this squad member, what am I getting out of it" 

Modifié par BlahDog, 17 décembre 2011 - 04:13 .

[Jog0907]

Calinstel wrote...

Jog0907 wrote...

I agree with blahdog, adaptability and shooting should be the focus of the soldier and ammo powers enhance that.
Im also happy about that addition to concussive shot since it adds something the skill needed in me2 and that is synergy with other skills

ME1 HAD that adaptability that is lacking in ME2.  The only thing that limited a soldier in ME1 was not finding/buying the mods he/she wanted.
In ME2, you had to pick and choose squadmates just to get the mod you wanted.  As a result, unless you took the characters BW wanted you to use and not the ones you, the player, wanted, you were limited.

Hardly and it shows in the class discussion forum in the number of variation a me2 soldier has in comparison to its me1 counterpart.

Me1 had more mods but their effects were less felt on the gameplay and tactics the player used, in the end me1 promoted optimal builds, instead of actual choice and experimentation with skills and weapons like me2 did thanks to the good design choices it took (even if people whine all day about retcon)

Modifié par Jog0907, 17 décembre 2011 - 04:27 .

[RoboticWater]

Calinstel wrote...

But that is purely player choice.  Be making hardware modifications part of the 'magic powers' the soldier was reduced in ability without any loss to the other classes and something that is not part of the players choice.  If they really needed to fill out the soldiers skill tree, heavier shields/armor could have sufficed.
Please remember, I am only covering the ammo mods here, not the other, overpowering mods for the weapons.

What? Ammo powers don't make the soldiers weaker, they make it stronger. They're called "powers" and not "weakers" for a reason. And the one of the main reasons for having ammo powers is so soldiers don't have a bunch of lame passive bonuses.
 
"Please remember, I am only covering the ammo mods here, not the other, overpowering mods for the weapons"
As am I. I don't hate mods as a whole but they are better off being just passive bonuses.

Modifié par BlahDog, 17 décembre 2011 - 04:26 .

[Jog0907]

BlahDog wrote...

Calinstel wrote...

But that is purely player choice.  Be making hardware modifications part of the 'magic powers' the soldier was reduced in ability without any loss to the other classes and something that is not part of the players choice.  If they really needed to fill out the soldiers skill tree, heavier shields/armor could have sufficed.
Please remember, I am only covering the ammo mods here, not the other, overpowering mods for the weapons.

What? Ammo powers don't make the soldiers weaker, they make it stronger. They're called "powers" and not "weakers" for a reason. And the one of the main reasons for having ammo powers is so soldiers don't have a bunch of lame passive bonuses.
 
"Please remember, I am only covering the ammo mods here, not the other, overpowering mods for the weapons"
As am I. I don't hate mods as a whole but they are better off being just passive bonuses.

agree again with you, I prefer ammo powers (or nearly anything) over only passive skills for my soldier

[Someone With Mass]

Well, there are weapon mods in ME3. Can use those instead.

[Jog0907]

Calinstel wrote...

BlahDog wrote...

Calinstel wrote...

But that is purely player choice.  Be making hardware modifications part of the 'magic powers' the soldier was reduced in ability without any loss to the other classes and something that is not part of the players choice.  If they really needed to fill out the soldiers skill tree, heavier shields/armor could have sufficed.
Please remember, I am only covering the ammo mods here, not the other, overpowering mods for the weapons.

Ammo powers don't make the soldiers weaker, they make it stronger. They're called "powers" and not "weakers" for a reason. And the one of the main reasons for having ammo powers is so soldiers don't have a bunch of lame passive bonuses.
 
"Please remember, I am only covering the ammo mods here, not the other, overpowering mods for the weapons"
As am I. 

Forgive me but that 'powers/weakers' was just plain silly. 
Making ammo mods 'powers' did nothing but reduce the abilities of the Soldier class and make it sound cool.  They are not magical powers but hardware modifications to the ammo being used.  THAT is my arguement.  They belong ON the weapon and not some mystical, magical power where the user is limited by who is on the squad.
As to the soldier, if they wanted to gimp the class, they could have done something different but to have even one weapons ammo mod in the tree is ridiculous.  Hell, had they said it was just a selector on the weapon it would have been better than as a power.

well to be fair the animation in me2 and me3 shows them as being a change in weapon settings (pressing some buttons in me2 and in me3 using the omnitool to handle the process) instead of a change of magazine or
parts in the weapon. This shows that the modder needs experience on how to perform such changes to settings (similar to how an engineer would need knowledge in overload and hacking methods).

Modifié par Jog0907, 17 décembre 2011 - 04:53 .

[jasonsantanna]

forgive me but why does everyone say that they are magical powers (Ammo Powers) they are omni tool based now ,sync to the soldiers weapon , much like the engineers powers are launched from his omni tool . . . the soldier's is sync to his weapons computer via his omni tool and fired from said gun instead of launched from the omni tool

[RoboticWater]

Calinstel wrote...

BlahDog wrote...

Calinstel wrote...

But that is purely player choice.  Be making hardware modifications part of the 'magic powers' the soldier was reduced in ability without any loss to the other classes and something that is not part of the players choice.  If they really needed to fill out the soldiers skill tree, heavier shields/armor could have sufficed.
Please remember, I am only covering the ammo mods here, not the other, overpowering mods for the weapons.

Ammo powers don't make the soldiers weaker, they make it stronger. They're called "powers" and not "weakers" for a reason. And the one of the main reasons for having ammo powers is so soldiers don't have a bunch of lame passive bonuses.
 
"Please remember, I am only covering the ammo mods here, not the other, overpowering mods for the weapons"
As am I. 

Forgive me but that 'powers/weakers' was just plain silly. 
Making ammo mods 'powers' did nothing but reduce the abilities of the Soldier class and make it sound cool.  They are not magical powers but hardware modifications to the ammo being used.  THAT is my arguement.  They belong ON the weapon and not some mystical, magical power where the user is limited by who is on the squad.
As to the soldier, if they wanted to gimp the class, they could have done something different but to have even one weapons ammo mod in the tree is ridiculous.  Hell, had they said it was just a selector on the weapon it would have been better than as a power.

If that is your only argument why do you repeatedly say that powers make them weaker?
Again, ammo powers were strictly for the sake of making the soldier more tactical. By restricting ammo powers to the soldier the other classes need to rely on their powers more.
If you can think of anything that the soldier could use as a power that reinforces the use of a gun and is not some simple stat increase, I would love to hear it.

And again making ammo as a power may not make the most sense but gameplay comes before lore.
Always.
Deal with it.

Yes, the powers/weakers thing  was lame but appropriate for the situation. If you continually say that giving more powers to the soldier makes it weaker then you are obviously getting the point.

Modifié par BlahDog, 17 décembre 2011 - 04:59 .

[jasonsantanna]

Jog0907 wrote...

Calinstel wrote...

BlahDog wrote...

Calinstel wrote...

But that is purely player choice.  Be making hardware modifications part of the 'magic powers' the soldier was reduced in ability without any loss to the other classes and something that is not part of the players choice.  If they really needed to fill out the soldiers skill tree, heavier shields/armor could have sufficed.
Please remember, I am only covering the ammo mods here, not the other, overpowering mods for the weapons.

Ammo powers don't make the soldiers weaker, they make it stronger. They're called "powers" and not "weakers" for a reason. And the one of the main reasons for having ammo powers is so soldiers don't have a bunch of lame passive bonuses.
 
"Please remember, I am only covering the ammo mods here, not the other, overpowering mods for the weapons"
As am I. 

Forgive me but that 'powers/weakers' was just plain silly. 
Making ammo mods 'powers' did nothing but reduce the abilities of the Soldier class and make it sound cool.  They are not magical powers but hardware modifications to the ammo being used.  THAT is my arguement.  They belong ON the weapon and not some mystical, magical power where the user is limited by who is on the squad.
As to the soldier, if they wanted to gimp the class, they could have done something different but to have even one weapons ammo mod in the tree is ridiculous.  Hell, had they said it was just a selector on the weapon it would have been better than as a power.

well to be fair the animation in me2 and me3 shows them as being a change in weapon settings (pressing some buttons in me2 and in me3 using the omnitool to handle the process) instead of a change of magazine or
parts in the weapon. This shows that the modder needs experience on how to perform such changes to settings (similar to how an engineer would need knowledge in overload and hacking methods).

thank you,  my point also . . .   

[robarcool]

@Bahdog
Your comment is what the thread is probably looking for (no pun). Ammo powers are only for combat classes as they are equivalent of warp, incinerate and overload. It is that simple. If they give ammo mods, they will be available to all and then Bioware will need something else to balance out the classes as the soldier will be at a disadvantage, with only the ammo mods and nothing else.

Modifié par robarcool, 17 décembre 2011 - 05:12 .

[RoboticWater]

Calinstel wrote...

Jog0907 wrote...

well to be fair the animation in me2 and me3 shows them as being a change in weapon settings (pressing some buttons in me2 and in me3 using the omnitool to handle the process) instead of a change of magazine or
parts in the weapon. This shows that the modder needs experience on how to perform such changes to settings (similar to how an engineer would need knowledge in overload and hacking methods).

But if it's just a change, and that change is dependant on who is in the squad, can that really make any more sense than magical powers?  If BW had just required the player to choose 2 ammo mods per mission then that would have been fine and would have made sense.  But tying into your squads composition keeps the ammo mods squarely in the 'magical powers' realm.
You're using a 'training' requirement to use a ammo magazine?  Okay, so where is the training for hacking doors that in ME1 required a tech? 
Just because this is a scifi game does not mean it cannot make sense!  As it stands now, it does not.

Ammo powers do not change the ammunition from the source, it modifies it in the middle, for example:

You start with your generic ammo, then you move to the modifier station in the gun which applies the certain modidfication you want, and then it goes out of the gun.

As for the squad ammo power it could be a transmission of sorts that is sent out by one user and then applied to the other weapons.

Yes, this is a weak excuse but
Gameplay>Lore

Mass Effect has been very good about its lore and ability to make sense so far, I don't particularly like it  but you have to let it get away with this one little thing. 

Modifié par BlahDog, 17 décembre 2011 - 05:18 .

[Jog0907]

Calinstel wrote...

Jog0907 wrote...

well to be fair the animation in me2 and me3 shows them as being a change in weapon settings (pressing some buttons in me2 and in me3 using the omnitool to handle the process) instead of a change of magazine or
parts in the weapon. This shows that the modder needs experience on how to perform such changes to settings (similar to how an engineer would need knowledge in overload and hacking methods).

But if it's just a change, and that change is dependant on who is in the squad, can that really make any more sense than magical powers?  If BW had just required the player to choose 2 ammo mods per mission then that would have been fine and would have made sense.  But tying into your squads composition keeps the ammo mods squarely in the 'magical powers' realm.
You're using a 'training' requirement to use a ammo magazine?  Okay, so where is the training for hacking doors that in ME1 required a tech? 
Just because this is a scifi game does not mean it cannot make sense!  As it stands now, it does not.

Adding squad composition and class to which ammo powers you can use ties up with the me2 modding system that requires experienced users in the real time adaptation of a weapon mass acelerator settings, and again the animation shows that its more than a change of ammo magazine (and likely not even needed) like you insist on saying it is for me2 weapons.

Basic hacking could be seen as part of the standard n7 training independent of specialization given to the person.

The way I see it it makes sense

[jasonsantanna]

BlahDog wrote...

Calinstel wrote...

Jog0907 wrote...

well to be fair the animation in me2 and me3 shows them as being a change in weapon settings (pressing some buttons in me2 and in me3 using the omnitool to handle the process) instead of a change of magazine or
parts in the weapon. This shows that the modder needs experience on how to perform such changes to settings (similar to how an engineer would need knowledge in overload and hacking methods).

But if it's just a change, and that change is dependant on who is in the squad, can that really make any more sense than magical powers?  If BW had just required the player to choose 2 ammo mods per mission then that would have been fine and would have made sense.  But tying into your squads composition keeps the ammo mods squarely in the 'magical powers' realm.
You're using a 'training' requirement to use a ammo magazine?  Okay, so where is the training for hacking doors that in ME1 required a tech? 
Just because this is a scifi game does not mean it cannot make sense!  As it stands now, it does not.

Ammo powers do not change the ammunition from the source, it modifies it in the middle, for example:

You start with your generic ammo, then you move to the modifier station in the gun which applies the certain modidfication you want, and then it goes out of the gun.

As for the squad ammo power it could be a transmission of sorts that is sent out by one user and then applied to the other weapons.

Yes, this is a weak excuse but
Gameplay>Lore

makes sense its almost like syncing devices or bluetooth. . .
but in this case the soldier is doing this with squad mates

Modifié par jasonsantanna, 17 décembre 2011 - 05:17 .

[Someone With Mass]

BlahDog wrote...
Yes, this is a weak excuse but
Gameplay>Lore

This.

If they followed the lore to the very letter, it'd be pretty boring because of all the things you'd have to manage, like power cells for the shields, ammo blocks, thermal clips, you'd only be able to fire off about three biotic powers per mission, you'd be forced to discharge the Normandy's core, (this is something they had planned for the game, by the way) everything would have a limit. Some pretty unpractical ones too.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 17 décembre 2011 - 05:28 .

[Jog0907]

Someone With Mass wrote...

BlahDog wrote...
Yes, this is a weak excuse but
Gameplay>Lore

This.

If they followed the lore to the very letter, it'd be pretty boring because of all the things you'd have to manage, like power cells for the shields, ammo blocks, thermal clips, you'd only be able to fire off about three biotic powers per mission, youd be forced to discharge the Normandy's core, (this is something they had planned for the game, by the way) everything would have a limit. Some pretty unpractical ones too.

also a good designer (regardless of area) understands the necesities of that which he designs, in the case of videogames this comes with knowing that good, enticing gameplay is a must and if some corrections must be done to lore to acomodate improved gameplay then so be it.

Modifié par Jog0907, 17 décembre 2011 - 05:24 .