313 réponses à ce sujet

[MerinTB]

Just to be pedantic -

Since you are discussing games and game ratings, the ESRB's definitions matter:

http://www.esrb.org/...tings_guide.jsp
"Nudity - Graphic or prolonged depictions of nudity
Partial Nudity - Brief and/or mild depictions of nudity
(...)
When a content descriptor is preceded by the term "Mild," it is intended to convey low frequency, intensity or severity of the content it modifies.
"

It's pretty similar for movies.  Partial or brief nudity is either very quick or only revealing a limited part of the body (topless, buttocks), whereas "full frontal", especially on males, will quickly jump a rating to a higher level.  Graphic implies showing arousal.

You can have a person fully undressed but if the "camera" doesn't depict certain areas, most ratings systems (game or tv or movie) won't even qualify it as "partial" or "brief" nudity.

ME1's scenes are... borderline.  Partial nudity probably more for the "graphic" part, as in they weren't just unclothed but also (in the most generous of terms) making out, even though the most you saw was "side" anything.

ME2 (I've only seen a handful of scenes - only the three times I played) mostly even left people mostly or at least partially dressed, showing less skin and usually even less physical intimacy (beyond kissing and cuddling.)

I'd say that's the difference.

[bandfred]

I liked ME2 scenes better. Each one was unique and they matched their characters.

Modifié par bandfred, 13 décembre 2011 - 08:43 .

[Olive Oomph]

Zanallen wrote...

The ESRB definitions (Hint: These are the only ones that matter in this discussion):

Nudity - Graphic or prolonged depictions of nudity
Partial Nudity - Brief and/or mild depictions of nudity

I think it's a pity that this post seems to be completely overlooked.

Personally, I think Jack's and Miiranda's scene were erotic, just because they aren't your personal taste doesn't make them porn.
ME1 love scenes are different from ME2's, and I liked them better, but there is no need to express that opinion in such a pretentious manner. For me it's a difference in style, not quality!

I like dry humping, it's just another form of sharing an erotic moment with someone you care about, you don't have to always go for full-on sex in your birthday suit, you know.
Being mature has nothing to do with prefering one style over another, being judgemental about something other than your own preference however...

Modifié par Olive Oomph, 13 décembre 2011 - 08:43 .

[MerinTB]

Olive Oomph wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

The ESRB definitions (Hint: These are the only ones that matter in this discussion):

Nudity - Graphic or prolonged depictions of nudity
Partial Nudity - Brief and/or mild depictions of nudity

I think it's a pity that this post seems to be completely overlooked.

I think it's a pity I missed Zanallen's post as well.  I could have just quoted him and agreed.

[Wittand25]

ME2 did not contain partial nudety. ME1 did.

Partially nudity: the naked body is seen but you cannot see genitals (and female areolas in more conservative countries).
Nudity: the whole body can be seen.

Partial nudity does not mean that the body is partially covered, it means that you can ony see some parts of the body and do not get a look at the more private areas.

[CptData]

jreezy wrote...

CptData wrote...

jreezy wrote...

So my definition is wrong because its not the one you use? Good to know.

No. Your definition is wrong since it doesn't meet the definition everyone else uses.
I'm not trying to get you on your bad side, it just appears you're wrong.

Argumentum ad populum much? Just...no.

Okay, wikipedia isn't what I would call a "reliable source" - but at least there your definition fits.

CLICK

However, this is NOT what the ordinary man on the street believes or knows. Actually, they should fix the definition to fit popular belief. It also helps a lot to reduce confusion.

Means:
full nudity = full nakedness, regardless if there are body parts are covered or not.
partial nudity = partial nakedness, parts of a body covered by clothes.

Seriously, they should fix that definition. The current one is confusing for everyone. I mean, one of my friends is in that business (being a nude photographer) and even he is confused by that definition.

Whatever, that case is closed for me now.
You win. <_<

(And I really, really, really, really hate losing. In that matter I'm more marine than a real marine. I HATE losing.)

:innocent:

Modifié par CptData, 13 décembre 2011 - 09:01 .

[JosephDucreux]

Somehow porn movies can get away with an 18+ rating, but any 10 second scene of full nudity in videogames demands fire, brimstone and teh banhammer...

Weird world we live in today.

Modifié par JosephDucreux, 13 décembre 2011 - 08:54 .

[Darth_Trethon]

Fox News made up lies and EA punked out and well....the result was self evident in DAO, DA2 and ME2. The only way to regain some respect would be to DARE Fox News to say something and then trash them through a million court rooms when they do. The game boxes are clearly marked: "Sexual Content", "Nudity", Rated M for Mature and so on....so their arguments hold no water. So go ahead BioWare and actually MAKE a porn simulator and keep it right on the bounds of what is possible to stay within M and out of the Ao rating so it CAN be released on the consoles....nudity and all that...can't show the fun parts connecting but that's OK. Why do this? Because it's within human nature to desire sex with the opposite gender and as long as the game is marked for mature audiences then it's fine....a 17 year old can legally purchase actual porn in the US so a far milder M rating should be OK. But above all the main and all important reason to do this is to show once and for all that games are equal in rights to movies and tv shows and make an example of anyone that tries to lie about the game...hell legally force Fox News to permanently shut down...that should send a loud and clear message.

[InvincibleHero]

IMO it wasn't because of the nudity per se but the alien female (apparently by looks) with female main character that got fox going. Being that is more acceptable these days I doubt there would be any FOX II on ME3 if they returned to stylistic low nudity sex scenes.

Really in PG movies you can show a real peson's bum and there is not flak for that. Yet do so it is an automatic M in video games when it is a toally created virtual character and not a real photo of areal person.

[What?]

I simply don't want to suffer more awkward "clothes sex" in ME3. It'd be nice if Bioware reprised ME1's tasteful nudity, if only to spare us players that uncomfortable feeling, like being in a car and listening to your drunk friends in the back getting it on.

Modifié par VictorianTrash, 13 décembre 2011 - 09:34 .

[Llane]

I'm going to go with the theory that the Banshees are responsible for the "Partial Nudity" tag.

Relevant CAD-comic.

[Fraevar]

I wish they would, but it's not gonna happen. The record of self-censoring by BioWare on this is too long: DAO, ME2, DA2. With BioWare obsessed with chasing big numbers, they're shying away from any real "controversy" - even though context totally proved FOX News wrong about ME1. The Miranda scene is still the most cringe-worthy to me, closely followed by Jack's, because they are just...campy.

[Friera]

I never got why you can splat enemies and kill them in so many different ways. Kill our family, sons etc, but nooooo, we can´t see a couple of naked breasts.
Why is voilence allowed in so many pervert and disgusting ways, and sexual content not?

On the sidenote. What is the average age of the players? Is there like..a lot of 10 year old kid who have only seem their own naked body playing ME series?
Well, I´m pleased if there is more... love.... in the series.

And another question. Didn´t The Witcher have full front nudity? Where their any commotion about that?

Modifié par Friera, 13 décembre 2011 - 10:05 .

[CrazyRah]

Delerius_Jedi wrote...

I wish they would, but it's not gonna happen. The record of self-censoring by BioWare on this is too long: DAO, ME2, DA2. With BioWare obsessed with chasing big numbers, they're shying away from any real "controversy" - even though context totally proved FOX News wrong about ME1. The Miranda scene is still the most cringe-worthy to me, closely followed by Jack's, because they are just...campy.

I totally agree with this. It probably won't happen that we get romances like the older ones but i still hope

[Friera]

jreezy wrote...

Friera wrote...

I never got why you can splat enemies and kill them in so many different ways. Kill our family, sons etc, but nooooo, we can´t see a couple of naked breasts.
Why is voilence allowed in so many pervert and disgusting ways, and sexual content not?

Since BioWare is located in North America I'll use the U.S. as an example: We shy away from anything sexual while endorsing violence.

Wow. Allright. Can´t imagine. Everytime the videogames are a "bad thing" in the media here, its because some parents have a 10 year old playing a volient game.

You have no idea what crazy sexual content they send on TV for the public here in Norway.

[Nimrodell]

Friera wrote...

I never got why you can splat enemies and kill them in so many different ways. Kill our family, sons etc, but nooooo, we can´t see a couple of naked breasts.
Why is voilence allowed in so many pervert and disgusting ways, and sexual content not?

On the sidenote. What is the average age of the players? Is there like..a lot of 10 year old kid who have only seem their own naked body playing ME series?
Well, I´m pleased if there is more... love.... in the series.

And another question. Didn´t The Witcher have full front nudity? Where their any commotion about that?

Actually, most of kids and adolescents are not interested that much in ME series, they get bored pretty fast since 'there's a lot of talking'. My students or my nephew won't even consider playing ME1 for instance 'cause the gameplay is clunky and there's just too much talk. And as a parent, I don't allow my girls (elder one is 11 years old) to play games like ME, but I did allow them watching love scene from ME1 'cause that's how they can form a proper image on how intimacy between two people in love looks like (of course I did tell them the story about Commander Shepard and Kaidan, context is everything). On the other hand, they are not allowed to watch Reaper IFF mission, too many tormented people in it, too much human suffering behind it. Love between two people is something wonderful and in ME1 it was shown as such. It wasn't about partial nudity, it was so much more.

[Fraevar]

Nimrodell wrote...

[snipped] Love between two people is something wonderful and in ME1 it was shown as such. It wasn't about partial nudity, it was so much more.

This. ME2's pants-on-grinding signals bootycall by comparison. Lack of depth and intimacy abound.

[InvincibleHero]

jreezy wrote...

Friera wrote...

I never got why you can splat enemies and kill them in so many different ways. Kill our family, sons etc, but nooooo, we can´t see a couple of naked breasts.
Why is voilence allowed in so many pervert and disgusting ways, and sexual content not?

Since BioWare is located in North America I'll use the U.S. as an example: We shy away from anything sexual while endorsing violence.

Not true. MTV, and network shows show plenty of steamy sexual scenes. Movies and novels and the like have plenty of nudity and graphic depictions of sex. However, older people hold disproportionate power in the US. They vote so when the complain to the FC over JJs wardrobe malfunction they overreact and punish right away. It is appeasement. Most of the internet sites like Yahoo focus on this star looked hot in this dress or others want to see this celeb's nip slip. We have billboards that ooze sex to sell everything from coke to razors and laundry detergent.

Go to any beach and you will see plenty of skin and there are nudist resorts within the US and plenty of gentlemens's clubs and male revue shows. Our TV shows have shown nudity like NY PD Blue without being banned or fined for it because of the time it was aired. It is just that overall what is allowed is very conservative based on the assumption children might be exposed to it.

Games are looked upon as for children by the general non-gaming public. This is incorrect, but is seized upon to protect the children but really is to pander for votes from parents and their grandparents.

This stereotype that the people of the US are very sexually repressed needs to die.

[CptBomBom00]

HA It's good that I'm in England, at least 18 games aren't banned like in.... was it Germany?
Also I agree that BW should include ME1 nudity as the game is from 18, so if a parent buys this game for his/her child which is 10,12,15,16, and allows them to play it, it's their problem, and then when it comes to romance scene, and they see a breast or something, they get angry at Developers, that they have included sex in this games,yeah but it's written like HELL, at the back of the box what does the game included, and if some people can't read, well it's their problem not devs.
So I support BW including ME1 nudity.

[vvDRUCILLAvv]

More nudity??? I know this is an M rated game but come on folks, lets keep it classy.

[CptBomBom00]

I don't think anybody here asked for more nudity, what we asked for was, bringing back ME1 sex scenes, as they were AWESOME.

[Wittand25]

CptBomBom00 wrote...

HA It's good that I'm in England, at least 18 games aren't banned like in.... was it Germany?
Also I agree that BW should include ME1 nudity as the game is from 18, so if a parent buys this game for his/her child which is 10,12,15,16, and allows them to play it, it's their problem, and then when it comes to romance scene, and they see a breast or something, they get angry at Developers, that they have included sex in this games,yeah but it's written like HELL, at the back of the box what does the game included, and if some people can't read, well it's their problem not devs.
So I support BW including ME1 nudity.

Games are never "banned" as such in Germany, well unless they are some sort of sick garbage made by those who still fondly remember the 1930s.
What happens is that the German rating board USK tests games, if a game is too violent the USK can refuse to give a rating. A game without rating can then be petioned to be put on the index, meaning that the game must not be openly sold or advertised.
But in recent years the USK has become a bit more relaxed (as far as I know the last BioWare game that got adjusted for the German Market was Jade Empire) and Publishers are more willing to acept an 18 rating so it is not such a big issue today as it used to be and only really affects realistic shooters.

As far as sex goes, lets just say that it has happened in the past that furios publishers demanded a higher rating because their sex comedy game would have recieved a 12 rating.

Modifié par Wittand25, 13 décembre 2011 - 12:06 .