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[Knight of Dane]

NOTE: I have been very unsure where I was supposed to post this thread, but I thought this forum was the best to do so, and since there are plenty of DA3 threads floating around I thought it was okay.
 
I have been thinking about what is to come in Dragon Age III, whom the protagonist will be, and came up with an idea for a start.
 
Many people missed the Origins part of the first Dragon Age, perhaps because of DA:2’s lack of any meaningful choices. I doubt the developers would want to go back entirely, that would be the same as admitting the failure, but perhaps it could work if it was crossed with classes. I have written a small example which I posted on Gamespot yesterday, I’ll copy it here.
 
But first a small poll. I liked that Hawke was more of a person in DA:2 as you had a last name and your character spoke. Many would like to be elves and dwarves, but my example is just for a human role. Anyway; even though being Hawke was a nice touch I always felt it was sort of clunky to be called that by his/her friends, so I want to know if you people would be okay with a set first name.
A first name would make companions more personal and really give interaction with them, and friendship/rivalry building, the last touch. You would still be Ser/Serah/Whathaveyou to strangers, “Hawke/Lastname” to people you generally know but “Marian/First” name to your friends.
Well, but since I am a fan of elections, I’d like to know your opinion: Poll
 
The Origin of Protagonist:
Assuming that III will follow up on the mage-templar war/The mage rebellion, you could be introduced to the story first by choosing a class and later an actual choice of direction.
 
Your character is the same person no matter the class, I’ll just make up a name for this example, what about Victor Lannigan!
So, the class is Victor’s background too. No matter the class/background you are the same person in a different setting. Victor has relatives and each background lets him be familiar with one of them, for my example a father, a mother and a sister. Daddy is Orlesian, mommy is a Fereldan who moved to Orlais and your sister was/is a mage.
 
If you choose mage, then you were born as that of course and were sent to the Circle of Magi in Nevarra City when your magic manifested, or something similar; Montsimmard if it’s supposed to be in Orlais, personally I just like Nevarra as it doesn’t sound as heavily pro-templar as Orlais.
In this Origin you tag around your older sister who was also born a mage, she's also the only relative you really remember, given you being raised mostly with her in the Circle. In this Origin you are in the middle of the mage rebellion as it spreads throughout Thedas and you and your sister are part of a inside plan to make a break for escape. A possible cameo here could be Alain from DA2 assuming he isn’t dead.
 
As a warrior you were raised by your father who is captain of the City Guard Captain in Nevarra City, you have just passed on to become second in command and are on a investigation near the Circle of Magi when a sudden mage outbreak happens and the entire force is being rallied to secure the citizens. In this Origin you are being teamed up with daddy as you try to help most people as possible.
 
As a rogue you have been raised in a community of thieves, the kind you could compare to Robin Hood, fighting the good fight for the people who are less fortunate. Here you are on a mission where you are supposed to steal the latest Circle income shipment, which is on the way to the Chantry, with the Guild Master, who so happens to be your mother too. While the mission goes smoothly suddenly a mage outbreak alerts all the templars trapping you between two sides of a fight.
 
Eventually you are being separated from your relative and events could lead you to the first permanent companion. I have a couple of ideas for such a role too, but that’s not important in this matter. Perhaps there could be a choice, if Bioware would have the guts. You meet both but only one of them stays, depending on your coming choice. Anyway your family is all reunited, awkward moments pass and you all rejoice as the fighting seems to have stopped.
 
What then ties the class/origins together is that the Seeker Cassandra and the Grey Warden Stroud so happens to spot you. S/he sees your combat abilities in action and is impressed, they get that feeling that plot-introduces seem to get… Kinda like Duncan, anyway.
When the battle is over they both contact you because they might have need of your skill. Here you then get to choose whom you go to meet, you won't join either faction so you're not becoming either a Seeker or a Warden, but what path you choose might form a different picture of what the whole mage/templar or other events.
If you go to Cassandra you will be tasked with travelling to Ferelden where you will have to break into Aeonar (I’m assuming it’s located here based on the DA:O mage origin, I couldn’t find any implied locations.) which is templar controlled. You are to seek out a mage whom might have some insight knowledge of an important matter Cassandra could use. You could get in there if you are smart enough. Perhaps she just doesn’t want to risk them killing a Seeker and then have a link to them, mercs are better for cannon fodder.
If you pick Stroud you will be tasked with going to Kal Sharok and find a Warden named Oghren. Oghren has gone to Kal Sharok as a representative of the Wardens but have not returned. Other wardens Stroud sent to look for him has disappeared too so he wants to try and sent someone who isn’t with their order. Once there you encounter refugee mages and templars who are trying to escape the war altogether. Events happen and you find Oghren.
 
Anyhow, such choices would be great for introducing both new players and fans. And you get to shape some of the story too, and it offers great replay ability.
 
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Well, I’d like to hear your thoughts. Also feel free to discuss anything else that would make for great story following the events of DA:2. Anything could happen, and I hope Bioware makes the best of it and returns Dragon age to the RPG it’s supposed to be.

Modifié par Knight of Dane, 13 décembre 2011 - 07:33 .

[Knight of Dane]

Why?
I rather liked the free role myself, though it was a little strange having to imagine Hawke's interest in some matters. At least the Warden had his/her work cut out for him/her.

[SkittlesKat96]

Not sure what my stance on having a first name is (some people will object to it and pull out the simplification card.)

But I just wanted to add that I think Bioware is going to have to put on their thinking caps for DA 3...since they are doing voiced protagonists now (which I don't really have a problem with btw) they have to put a lot of thinking into name, default look and voice and all that...

[Knight of Dane]

Of course, but they also have experience now. That was also why i thought it an idea that the character would be the same despite Origin, so the same voice actors would play all three beginnings, and the basic settings could be the same for default design.

[dan107]

I definitely think that the character should have a first name. I mean everyone called you Hawke anyway, whether you liked it or not, so making that a first name as opposed to a last name would make conversations sound less awkward.

There's absolutely no point in allowing the player to select a first name if it's not going to be mentioned or referenced anywhere in the game.

[Myusha]

Diversity, that doesn't limit capability is what I want. I want the ability to be able to choose different choices, see the effects and have them make a good impact, but also be able to easily access the content I didn't touch. Maybe a few exclusive goodies here or there. Like Specializations, Human Noble being King/Queen, Origin references, etc.

[Ponendus]

I would prefer to choose my own first name. I was quite happy being called 'Hawke' in DA2 and I do understand the need to do so, but I really do like a bit of freedom to personalise it where I can.

As to your story, I think it's great! I do think you will run into a practical objection though, namely that if you 'divide' choices as clearly as you suggest, you essentially are asking the developers to make 'two' games. One of which a large portion of the players may never get to see (should they not be the type to want to replay things).

I don't know that that is a deal-breaker, but every divide you make means double the development time/resources from that point on, and my understanding is that game studios are very cautious of that.

[Knight of Dane]

Of course, the best games are always the ones that's hardest to make, i suspect.

My idea was mostly to give the players an opportunity to have some game-changing choices without them devastating a good story line.
Branching stories, if done correctly, are always the best, if done wrong, always the most horrible ones.

By my model there would only be three "origins" as opposed to Origins, "origins" but they are then able to be combined into the choise of plot introducer, aka. Stroud/Cassandra, which is then each their departure, they take you two different places which both works as introducing the player to the depth of the game and as fanservice to give player cameos. Those two paths shouldn't have any more impact on the story other than dialogue or reference, that way they can work, but won't complicate the further story line.
Where a RPG can fail in development is if the branches of the story get twisted together, in one other.

[AngryFrozenWater]

I too want the option to select the first name. It even works better with a silent PC.

About the danger of people not playing an alternate branch of the story: DA2 already has that intonation system for which you can say the same. That means alternate ways to say the same thing using expensive voice actors. I can do without.

Also, BW claims that choices are important (although we haven't seen much of that in DA2). So, a branching storyline can be a result of that. A branching storyline does not mean creating two entirely different worlds, because the environments can be seen as a stage on which the story branches play.

If decisions are supposed to matter and are supposed to be meaningful then it is hard to avoid branching story lines. I think the illusion of choice is a fine mechanism, but it only works if there are also real choices in the game. The way it is done now doesn't satisfy me, because there are no real choices and the illusions are bad because of that.

Leaving out the cosmetic dialogue and intonation changes, cameos and mails to the Hawke Estate (or its equivalent) also frees up resources. The same goes for using a silent PC. When properly done it is possible to share the bulk of the side quests. It can even share some of the main quests, as long as it is not the final quest and as long as those quests are not full of rationalizations to keep folding back it will be doable. In this context "some" really means "some" and not "the majority".

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 14 décembre 2011 - 10:31 .

[Wulfram]

Set first name would be a very bad thing.

I shouldn't have to be a thief to be a rogue

[Ponendus]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

About the danger of people not playing an alternate branch of the story: DA2 already has that intonation system for which you can say the same. That means alternate ways to say the same thing using expensive voice actors. I can do without.

Also, BW claims that choices are important (although we haven't seen much of that in DA2). So, a branching storyline can be a result of that. A branching storyline does not mean creating two entirely different worlds, because the environments can be seen as a stage on which the story branches play.

Yes I agree that intonations are an example of branching, but I am not sure it is to the same extent as suggested by the OP here. My reading of the OP's suggestion is in fact creating more than just lines of dialogue, but whole scenarios, which I am sure are much more expensive in pracitcality.

I think you hit the nail on the head with the idea of creating environments that are viewed differently rather than different in entirety. Are you suggesting making the branches 'perspectives', and the choices you make affect which perspective you view? If so, I think that's an excellent way to get around the cost factor.

[Knight of Dane]

Wulfram wrote...
I shouldn't have to be a thief to be a rogue

Of course not, and as i said, mine was just an example.

We saw plenty of rogues in the guards and templars in Kirkwall, so i suppose a more.. "Honorable?" Story wouldn't be too much to ask for as a rogue.

What would your own suggestion to a rogue origin be if not thief or assassin?

[Wulfram]

I don't think there should be seperate rogue and warrior origins. Rogues can just be people who fight using agility rather than strength - light infantry rather than heavy.

edit: both your proposed non-mage origins would work fine for either class.

Modifié par Wulfram, 14 décembre 2011 - 12:02 .

[Knight of Dane]

Yep, but since bioware like to specify their Dragon Age classes i just figured it would fit better with a background where you actually have gotten trained in said class, i don't imagine that you join the guard o the templars expecting to be trained in swift combat, traps, poison and assassinations.

[RPGamer13]

I support different body types for the different classes, including Isabela's body mesh + aveline arms for a Warrior female.

They could do it where for each race you also have "starting cities", but the catch is no matter what race, you can choose which one you start in. This allows for mixing up of races if they do decide to create origin stories again.

I like the idea that once you're done with the prologue, you get a choice of which faction you want to join.

I honestly think Rivain will be, or should be, one of the major areas where the story takes place. I feel like they set up for it in Dragon Age II.

[Knight of Dane]

RPGamer13 wrote...

I support different body types for the different classes, including Isabela's body mesh + aveline arms for a Warrior female.

They could do it where for each race you also have "starting cities", but the catch is no matter what race, you can choose which one you start in. This allows for mixing up of races if they do decide to create origin stories again.

I like the idea that once you're done with the prologue, you get a choice of which faction you want to join.

I honestly think Rivain will be, or should be, one of the major areas where the story takes place. I feel like they set up for it in Dragon Age II.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is the bigger booies for Bella and Aveline's arms just part if the outfit? I know from videos that Bethany's big boob outfit is optainable through mods.

I'm curious as to why you think it should be in Rivain. The only link to them i can think of is Isabela, and that's not much.
In my (and many others) opinion the next game is hinted towards Orlais, or at least part of Orlais and some other regions. My own guess was that it would be A fairly large area centering around the Orlesian/Nevarran/Tevinter border, hence why i used Nevarra City in my own example.

[RazorrX]

I want to be able to pick my race. Even if they voice it they could say that my Elf was raised in the city (even if dalish) and thus have the protagonist have a single voice. I do not major elements of my character taken away from me before the game even begins. (Just please tweak Elves a bit more so they are not so messed up looking with only a few exceptions).

Let me choose a race, customize my looks, etc. and then I can live with the horrible dialog wheel. You know the one where you choose "no Thanks" and your character goes on a rant, kills the person asking for help, burns the house down, trims the hedges, etc. and you are left thinking "but I just picked 'no thanks'."

That said, I would prefer NOT to be a seeker as I do not care for the whole Templar/Seeker order at all and want very much to be a part of the destruction of it if at all possible. Yes mages need supervision,NO they do not need to be in a gulag.

And the OGB was only in 1 playthrough for me - when I was just trying to get achievements done. I saved, did it, saw what happened and then went back and replayed it without the ogb. Thus I would prefer if that choice was not suddenly cannon. I died like a Warden and that should count as well.

[PantheraOnca]

RazorrX wrote...


Let me choose a race, customize my looks, etc. and then I can live with the horrible dialog wheel. You know the one where you choose "no Thanks" and your character goes on a rant, kills the person asking for help, burns the house down, trims the hedges, etc. and you are left thinking "but I just picked 'no thanks'."

I get that you're doing the hyperbole thing, but it wasn't THAT bad.

I recall maybe 3-4 times where I was surprised by the speech, but it still was in-line with the meaning of the text option.

[Tommyspa]

Hmm, I think if they were to pull origins they could give origins in a way that doesn't force you into a faction like in DA:O. For example, a Seeker origin is the only one where you actually play as a Seeker.

[Knight of Dane]

The dialogue wheel was excellent to make your character seem real, giver her personality. I would be sad to see it gone. However, the dialogue wheel rarely showed any manner of choise when it had to keep up the moody answers, and the few times there were decitions it just had a bland icon for "This is a choise"
I would love if each personality could represent a mindset and not just expressions.

[yesikareyes]

I want my next character to be Orlesian! It would be awesome to have a voiced protagonist with an Orlesian accent with capabilities of being diplomatic, charming and aggresive. I do hope that we have more dialogue choices than these 3 like how it was in Origins.

[dangereusegirl]

I wouldn't hate having a preset name, or even having to select from a list of names, but I'm certain most people like being able to choose that part of their character. Besides, what if it was a name like Hortensia?

With the voice acting, I don't see why they couldn't combine aspects of the protag's voice from DAO and DA2. By that, I mean having a distinct voice based on the race you play (if it isn't strictly human). Another nice touch would be allowing the player to choose the tone of voice, sort of like the options in DAO (sultry, violent, charming, experienced, wise, etc.)  

Of course, that would take a lot of time and resources, so it probably won't happen. Still, I think it'd be a nice touch.

I like the idea of Cassandra/Stroud asking for the player's help in a certain matter. What person you pick to help could also affect how other characters interact with you, which would be nice to see. Another thing they could do is have certain companions available only on a certain path.

I am interested in seeing what the general atmosphere is if DA3 is set in Orlais. If it holds true to Asunder, then things are going to be pretty tense.

Modifié par dangereusegirl, 08 janvier 2012 - 05:59 .

[Mark of the Dragon]

I expect the new protagonist to be a seeker!

As to the forst name... ABSOLUTLY NOT! I mean people had a problem with the fact that Hawke had a set in surname. It eroded the immersion. If they make a set first name they might as well take away choices and dialogue options and make us play the game like they want us to. Ok thats over exageration but really NO!

[Time Victim]

I like most of your ideas related to classes but a set name, not so much.