Dark fantasy is fantasy with horror elements? Well I never... So what is the name of the fantasy I was talking about? Similiar to a Song of Ice and Fire.
What makes Dark Fantasy exactly...Dark?
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#27
Posté 13 décembre 2011 - 10:45
Ravenfeeder
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"Dark Fantasy" is a marketing term used by publicists to try and make their client's work 'edgier' and so more appealing to a teenage audience.
#28
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Posté 14 décembre 2011 - 07:05
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Ravenfeeder wrote...
"Dark Fantasy" is a marketing term used by publicists to try and make their client's work 'edgier' and so more appealing to a teenage audience.
No doubt. But the fact the Witcher games use that term also and a few other titles always made me think that it was as I said.
It's good I started this thread, or else I would have never have gained this knowledge. Thank you.
#29
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Posté 14 décembre 2011 - 07:16
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This is an interesting question. I'm very ignorant about this, but I guess I'd call it something close to noir.
#30
Posté 14 décembre 2011 - 07:25
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I think Diablo 1 was a good example. There were a lot of horror elements. The creepy isolated town, desecrated church, crypts, enemies being mostly undead and demons an not people or wildlife. The lore in the quests was all about death, ritual sacrifice, and terror. They lost a bit of this feel in Diablo 2, but the first one portrayed this genre well. It just don't have a drawn out story, but there was still a bit of lore in the available dialogue or random books.
#31
Posté 14 décembre 2011 - 07:37
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That has nothing to do with anything. Gameplay elements do not affect story content.alex90c wrote...
"when you press a button, something awesome has to happen" is not dark fantasy.
As others have said, Dark Fantasy is fantasy with pronounced horror elements.
I wouldn't consider the Dragon Age series a "dark fantasy" per se, but I would call mature fantasy, in that it has themes and content that most would not be comfortable with showing to children.
Modifié par Plaintiff, 14 décembre 2011 - 07:37 .
#32
Posté 14 décembre 2011 - 08:00
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Low fantasy.simfamSP wrote...
Dark fantasy is fantasy with horror elements? Well I never... So what is the name of the fantasy I was talking about? Similiar to a Song of Ice and Fire.
#33
Posté 14 décembre 2011 - 10:14
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simfamSP wrote...
Dark fantasy is fantasy with horror elements? Well I never... So what is the name of the fantasy I was talking about? Similiar to a Song of Ice and Fire.
Post-modern is the term I see the most as I said earlier, dark works too, whilst dark can refer to horror elements it doesn't just do that anymore.
#34
Posté 14 décembre 2011 - 12:10
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Maria Caliban wrote...
Dark fantasy is fantasy with horror elements.
It's not the same as fantasy that the reader finds 'dark' due to a grim and gritty setting, moral ambiguity, anti-heroes, or other elements. That's just... regular fantasy fiction. High fantasy, low fantasy, epic fantasy, sword and sorcery all can have 'dark' elements to some degree.
Take the Kurshiel's Dart trilogy, it has graphic scenes with the heroine being anally raped with a metal spike
Where I'm from we just call that 'Impalement'.
#35
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Posté 14 décembre 2011 - 12:30
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Pzykozis wrote...
simfamSP wrote...
Dark fantasy is fantasy with horror elements? Well I never... So what is the name of the fantasy I was talking about? Similiar to a Song of Ice and Fire.
Post-modern is the term I see the most as I said earlier, dark works too, whilst dark can refer to horror elements it doesn't just do that anymore.
So I was only half right?
Dark as in horror elements must mean it in a literal sense (as the source of the poster in page 1 suggests.)
#36
Posté 14 décembre 2011 - 05:09
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simfamSP wrote...
Pzykozis wrote...
simfamSP wrote...
Dark fantasy is fantasy with horror elements? Well I never... So what is the name of the fantasy I was talking about? Similiar to a Song of Ice and Fire.
Post-modern is the term I see the most as I said earlier, dark works too, whilst dark can refer to horror elements it doesn't just do that anymore.
So I was only half right?
Dark as in horror elements must mean it in a literal sense (as the source of the poster in page 1 suggests.)
What I meant is that with dark whilst its traditionally a label for more adult fantasy that contains elements of horror and stuff, in more recent times it is used also to catergorize fantasy with a more cynical and to pump out buzzwords visceral, gritty etc. viewpoint as a seperate but valid use of the term.
I tend to call it postmodern fantasy rather than dark or atleast thats how I try to remember it mostly because my waterstones has a dark fantasy section and it's filled with wangsty teenage girl books marketted at an adult audience, kinda like twilight only slightly less gouging your eyes out bad.
#37
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Posté 15 décembre 2011 - 01:42
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Pzykozis wrote...
simfamSP wrote...
Pzykozis wrote...
simfamSP wrote...
Dark fantasy is fantasy with horror elements? Well I never... So what is the name of the fantasy I was talking about? Similiar to a Song of Ice and Fire.
Post-modern is the term I see the most as I said earlier, dark works too, whilst dark can refer to horror elements it doesn't just do that anymore.
So I was only half right?
Dark as in horror elements must mean it in a literal sense (as the source of the poster in page 1 suggests.)
What I meant is that with dark whilst its traditionally a label for more adult fantasy that contains elements of horror and stuff, in more recent times it is used also to catergorize fantasy with a more cynical and to pump out buzzwords visceral, gritty etc. viewpoint as a seperate but valid use of the term.
I tend to call it postmodern fantasy rather than dark or atleast thats how I try to remember it mostly because my waterstones has a dark fantasy section and it's filled with wangsty teenage girl books marketted at an adult audience, kinda like twilight only slightly less gouging your eyes out bad.
#38
Posté 15 décembre 2011 - 01:52
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I thought that "all that remains" was a very good dark fantasy point in DA2, haven't seen anything similar in any other of the fantasy games I've played not even The Witcher, that's one quests where I though BioWare were honoring the label.
Modifié par Creid-X, 15 décembre 2011 - 01:55 .
#39
Posté 15 décembre 2011 - 02:13
Thandal N'Lyman
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My impression through the entire DA-series (and the BioWare team had used the term even before initial release) was that they meant "a story in which there might be situations with 'no good choices', and 'no happy ending'; the player would be forced to make decisions that would result in [morally or emotionally] bad things happening, no matter what." That was the "Dark" part...
Modifié par Thandal NLyman, 15 décembre 2011 - 02:16 .
#40
Posté 15 décembre 2011 - 09:02
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Thandal NLyman wrote...
My impression through the entire DA-series (and the BioWare team had used the term even before initial release) was that they meant "a story in which there might be situations with 'no good choices', and 'no happy ending'; the player would be forced to make decisions that would result in [morally or emotionally] bad things happening, no matter what." That was the "Dark" part...
Well, they certainly failed in that for DAO. Almost every decision had a perfect choice.
#41
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Posté 15 décembre 2011 - 04:26
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Further study into the topic has brought to light that in a *literal* sense alot of us are wrong. I've heard the term Dark fantasy in relation to The Witcher or a Song of Ice and Fire. That was wrong. I've heard the term High fantasy in relation to fairy stories of princesses and pixies. That was wrong (in some way or another.)
It seems to me that over time we have taken these terms and have brought new meaning to them. The literal definitions still exist but aren't used accordingly anymore... must be media/marketting/comercialism then
I bet this happens alot in the English language :-)
It seems to me that over time we have taken these terms and have brought new meaning to them. The literal definitions still exist but aren't used accordingly anymore... must be media/marketting/comercialism then
I bet this happens alot in the English language :-)
#42
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Posté 15 décembre 2011 - 04:28
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Zanallen wrote...
Thandal NLyman wrote...
My impression through the entire DA-series (and the BioWare team had used the term even before initial release) was that they meant "a story in which there might be situations with 'no good choices', and 'no happy ending'; the player would be forced to make decisions that would result in [morally or emotionally] bad things happening, no matter what." That was the "Dark" part...
Well, they certainly failed in that for DAO. Almost every decision had a perfect choice.
Yes it did, but these choices were logical and made sense. What Bioware could have done is that these happily ever after stories had their bites in the ass.
EG:
Saving Eamon's entire family results in Teagan dying because a demon was summoned once again.
#43
Posté 16 décembre 2011 - 06:57
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Legacy of Kain series is in my opinion a very good dark fantasy series, a general feeling of everything being beyond salvation
#44
Posté 16 décembre 2011 - 07:39
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Dark fantasy to me is fantasy that has a lot of horror elements and dark and gritty stuff, and/or it explores human nature and human drama from a grey perspective.
Narnia isn't a dark fantasy because it is really black and white and its primarily for children...it is also a high fantasy and not a low fantasy because it has talking animals, and lots of magic and magical objects and etc.
Its on a completely different world...
Whereas A Song of Ice and Fire is on the low fantasy end because its magic is really grounded and not overused and the world is a lot more closer to our world in comparison to a lot of fantasy.
Again though its hard to describe these sort of things.
Think of Harry Potter for example...is Harry Potter low or high fantasy? There is definitely a way to distinguish it (I can't be stuffed checking what one it is) but the typical people would probably argue over it and have different answers.
Also is it just me or did DA 2 do a better job in some ways at being a dark fantasy? In DA 2 things felt a little bit more hopeless at times and there were a lot of times where you just couldn't have things go your way (perhaps too many times, Hawke was a tad bit useless, but you get my point)
Narnia isn't a dark fantasy because it is really black and white and its primarily for children...it is also a high fantasy and not a low fantasy because it has talking animals, and lots of magic and magical objects and etc.
Its on a completely different world...
Whereas A Song of Ice and Fire is on the low fantasy end because its magic is really grounded and not overused and the world is a lot more closer to our world in comparison to a lot of fantasy.
Again though its hard to describe these sort of things.
Think of Harry Potter for example...is Harry Potter low or high fantasy? There is definitely a way to distinguish it (I can't be stuffed checking what one it is) but the typical people would probably argue over it and have different answers.
Also is it just me or did DA 2 do a better job in some ways at being a dark fantasy? In DA 2 things felt a little bit more hopeless at times and there were a lot of times where you just couldn't have things go your way (perhaps too many times, Hawke was a tad bit useless, but you get my point)
Modifié par SkittlesKat96, 16 décembre 2011 - 07:41 .
#45
Posté 16 décembre 2011 - 08:47
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Cristi wrote...
Legacy of Kain series is in my opinion a very good dark fantasy series, a general feeling of everything being beyond salvation
I wish you people stop reminding me that game ... Cannot found the first game anywhere(not even on GOG)..
Legacy of Kain series is a very good example of "Dark Fantasy".
Ravenloft and White Wolf/World of Darkness settings afe fine examples too.
Horror and desperativity these are the key elements of Dark fantasy theme.
#46
Posté 16 décembre 2011 - 09:18
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maybe the fact that you're all quibbling over definition and trying to jam both games into one box or another (or onto one scale or another if you're going there) just proves to me that the series continues to fuq with fantasy stereotypes. and good on 'em for it.
#47
Posté 16 décembre 2011 - 10:46
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Elements of horror, adult oriented, layers within layers, depressing, without hope, just around DARK. IMO, Dragon Age series doesn't fit. I would say DA:O is high fantasy (I'm about halfway through my first play through). I'm not sure what I would call DA 2 besides disappointing at this point (very early on with it, doubt I'll play it more than once judging by the lack of fun I'm having with it).
Honestly, I can't think of a good current example fitting the term dark fantasy that I've played. The Witcher series couldn't be placed there, either, really (though the first game came fairly close).
Honestly, I can't think of a good current example fitting the term dark fantasy that I've played. The Witcher series couldn't be placed there, either, really (though the first game came fairly close).
Modifié par google_calasade, 16 décembre 2011 - 10:48 .
#48
Posté 16 décembre 2011 - 11:52
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Simply, making the world look more like it was in the dark ages.
Dragon Age's racism is for example more "implyed" than actual. I mean you don't see Progroms conducted against the elves, or governments deciding that the Dalish should be wiped out in order to allow more farming space for the humans and stuff like that that actually happened in our world.
Using adult themes is ok, but the shock and horror in DA is enough to tell me that their society is actually brighter than it should be for me to consider it dark fantasy, rape in origins is actually seen as a horrible horrible thing to happen, in the middle ages that would be the veryday normal life of a peasant and even many nobles.
Betrayal is slightly better handed with Loghain but still doesn't get to the point of ASOIAF in cloak and dagger diplomacy, neither does in the brutality of the scenes, here even Killing Connor was optional, in a real Dark Fantasy world it will be so crapsack that you had to kill children to get over **** like this three times a week at least.
More stuff I would post but from the top of the head that's all.
In all Dragon Age universe is High Fantasy because it's way too optimistic to be dark, there are merry moments where you see people being happy and trying their best to get over with. There is bad and there are adult themes, but even Tolkien's Silmarillion was darker than how they are presented here.
It just lacks the nihilism Dark Fantasy settings have...
Dragon Age's racism is for example more "implyed" than actual. I mean you don't see Progroms conducted against the elves, or governments deciding that the Dalish should be wiped out in order to allow more farming space for the humans and stuff like that that actually happened in our world.
Using adult themes is ok, but the shock and horror in DA is enough to tell me that their society is actually brighter than it should be for me to consider it dark fantasy, rape in origins is actually seen as a horrible horrible thing to happen, in the middle ages that would be the veryday normal life of a peasant and even many nobles.
Betrayal is slightly better handed with Loghain but still doesn't get to the point of ASOIAF in cloak and dagger diplomacy, neither does in the brutality of the scenes, here even Killing Connor was optional, in a real Dark Fantasy world it will be so crapsack that you had to kill children to get over **** like this three times a week at least.
More stuff I would post but from the top of the head that's all.
In all Dragon Age universe is High Fantasy because it's way too optimistic to be dark, there are merry moments where you see people being happy and trying their best to get over with. There is bad and there are adult themes, but even Tolkien's Silmarillion was darker than how they are presented here.
It just lacks the nihilism Dark Fantasy settings have...
Modifié par Bayz, 16 décembre 2011 - 11:55 .
#49
Posté 16 décembre 2011 - 03:46
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Dark Fantasy includes most of these:
Rape, hangings, stonings, cannibals, poverty, incest, profanity, gore, nudity, sex, drugs and alcohol torture, dark bleak outcomes for choices and no happy ending. All in all it needs a very gritty depressing theme.
So in conclusion, Dragon Fail is in no way dark fantasy, just a generic cliche high fantasy
Rape, hangings, stonings, cannibals, poverty, incest, profanity, gore, nudity, sex, drugs and alcohol torture, dark bleak outcomes for choices and no happy ending. All in all it needs a very gritty depressing theme.
So in conclusion, Dragon Fail is in no way dark fantasy, just a generic cliche high fantasy
Modifié par DarthCaine, 16 décembre 2011 - 03:50 .
#50
Posté 16 décembre 2011 - 03:48
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Your forgot Little Finger the pedophile.
