119 réponses à ce sujet

[Thandal N'Lyman]

@Riknas;
Thx,  I needed a little humour after the flame-fest about a morph over on the Nexus! 

[schalafi]

I may be wrong, but I think Orsino wasn't the good mage that he pretended to be. In the "All That Remains" quest there was a note to the killer,( Quentin, I think his name was), praising him for his experiments, and signed "O". Later, right before his transformation, he mentioned that Quentin's magic was too dangerous, but now he was going to use it. So the First Enchanter must have been tolerant of blood magic all along.That whole scene seemed pretty DARK to me!

Modifié par schalafi, 21 décembre 2011 - 07:21 .

[gangly369]

Go and read Steven Erikson's books, in particular the Malazan series. Thats about as 'dark' as you can get with fantasy.

[Nerevar-as]

I would be surprised if it was darker than the Elric saga.

[Syros Mener]

The seven books of The Witcher universe are good examples for dark epic fantasy

[turian councilor Knockout]

^^ Yep Dragon Age is fantasy for kiddos

[ladyshamen]

The Elric saga is great, and depressing. How about Harlen Ellison ?

[Sabariel]

Racism against elves, dwarves, mages, and goldfish. That's what dark fantasy is all about.

[Dave of Canada]

Always viewed "dark" as in... it's taking realistic themes and applying them in a fantastical world.

[FedericoV]

simfamSP wrote...

But this is my opinion. For you, what exactly makes Dark Fantasy? Is it as I have said? Moral values from our world set into a fantasy world? Or is more towards 'Gothic' style works. And note when I say Gothic I mean the 'style' not the game.

Dark Fantasy: fantasy with gothic & horror influences. The term has a pretty firm and estabilished meaning and I do not see the point in trying to turn it in something vague like "fantasy with mature/adult/relativistic content". And honestly mate, I do not see the usefulness of your definition. A genre describe its tropes and common topics. Not its level of maturity or its morality (or the lack of it).

High fantasy does not mean "childish". Lord of the Rings & Silmarillion are high fantasy but both are very mature (and sad) tales.

DA:O and DA2: are not dark fantasy at all. There is an horror spin here and there, but more for shock value than anything else. Overall, it's pretty classical high fantasy. The game has been marketed as dark heroic fantasy and the heroic part has clearly taken over during development because it's easier to sell heroic/high fantasy than dark fantasy.  Mind, there's nothing wrong with it. High Fantasy can be beautifull and mature if done well.

Having said all of that, I think that you (and other replying to your OP) are making a little bit of confusion between the "dark fantasy" subgenre as an estabilished literal/gaming tradition and the "darkest" trends in the late fantasy genre from author like George Martin and others (Joe Abercrombie, etc.) who refuse a black/white morality and have a more realistic and authentic approach toward "mature" themes like politics, society, power, humanity, sex, racism and such.

Know what? If Bioware would really do something like A Song of Ice and Fire, people would burn themselves in protest. Bioware's customers want "rainbows and unicorns" in their fantasy and that explain even some part of the criticism toward DA2 (that is probably the darkest Bioware's game to date with all its fault).

I remember a topic on the old forums during DA:O's development where the vast majority of players unfortunately expressed their dislike for more mature and adult oriented content in Bioware's games. They were very fearfull of the announced GRRM's influence over DA:O (even if at the end such influence was just usual Bioware's fake talk). The "sunshine brigade" was the large majority in that thread. 

Modifié par FedericoV, 22 décembre 2011 - 06:08 .

[Thandal N'Lyman]

@FedericoV; So... I take it that you're more of a Planescape - Torment fan?

Modifié par Thandal NLyman, 22 décembre 2011 - 07:41 .

[FedericoV]

Thandal NLyman wrote...

@FedericoV; So... I take it that you're more of a Planescape - Torment fan?

Well, in fantasy the only "work" I'm a fan of is George Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire. Honestly, I do not know a game that came close to it and probably we'll never see one. Not to count that my enjoyement of a game has even a lot to do with gameplay off course. So, sorry, but while I like PS:T for the RP and the story, I'm not a particular fan of that game.

[TheRealJayDee]

FedericoV wrote...

Thandal NLyman wrote...

@FedericoV; So... I take it that you're more of a Planescape - Torment fan?

Well, in fantasy the only "work" I'm a fan of is George Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire. Honestly, I do not know a game that came close to it and probably we'll never see one.

A Song of Ice and Fire really is great! My first contact with it was the HBO Game of Thrones show, and about a month ago I finally started to read the books. I'm about  a hundred pages into A Feast for Crows now, and I'm loving more or less every page of it so far. Sadly I doubt we'll ever see anything like it in a game anytime soon as well. I actually hope Bioware will go more towards A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones in terms of asthetics, because that is closer to what I felt Dragon Age was and should be than the direction taken in DA2. Seriously doubt that's going to happen, though... 

[FedericoV]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

A Song of Ice and Fire really is great! My first contact with it was the HBO Game of Thrones show, and about a month ago I finally started to read the books. I'm about  a hundred pages into A Feast for Crows now, and I'm loving more or less every page of it so far. Sadly I doubt we'll ever see anything like it in a game anytime soon as well. I actually hope Bioware will go more towards A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones in terms of asthetics,
because that is closer to what I felt Dragon Age was and should be than the direction taken in DA2. Seriously doubt that's going to happen, though... 

The HBO show is really damn good and I'm glad that many reader have discovered the ASOIAF book series thanks to it. I could not believe my eyes when I saw the first season: it's a dream come true. I mean, I could not believe that the original material (wich is very difficult and was not thought for a TV adaptation, more as a
"revolt" against the constraints of TV storytelling) could be translated so well in TV format with all the complication like the incredible cast (in term of numbers), the young protagonists, the wolves and all the location.

I've read, re-read and read again ASOIAF for the better part of the last 11 years. There's nothing I like more than the first 3 books of the series (even the last couple are very good but imho the story drag a bit... and we have to wait so much for them).  Sometimes I joke with my friends about the fact that I know the history of Westeros better than the histoy of Italy (my country) [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie].

I agree about aestethics and look: in that sense, they just needed to improve DA:O, put more details and personality over it and not to overhaul the style so completely that the players could not recognize it anymore. I especially hate the anime/jrpg influence over the whole look/animation/models in DA2. I hate jrpg classical look.

Modifié par FedericoV, 23 décembre 2011 - 08:08 .

[GodWood]

FedericoV wrote...
I remember a topic on the old forums during DA:O's development where the vast majority of players unfortunately expressed their dislike for more mature and adult oriented content in Bioware's games. They were very fearfull of the announced GRRM's influence over DA:O (even if at the end such influence was just usual Bioware's fake talk). The "sunshine brigade" was the large majority in that thread. 

A pox on their house.

[Dokarqt]

TW2 (more so than TW1) is the only CRPG I've played that I felt lived up to a name like "dark fantasy". DA is like playing super mario in comparison to TW2.
There were some moments when playing TW2 when I actually felt slightly physically nauseated. Not saying TW2 is a better game than the DA ones, just that its a lot "darker" and mature.

EDIT: A typo.

Modifié par Dokarqt, 26 décembre 2011 - 10:04 .

[Gunderic]

GodWood wrote...

FedericoV wrote...
I remember a topic on the old forums during DA:O's development where the vast majority of players unfortunately expressed their dislike for more mature and adult oriented content in Bioware's games. They were very fearfull of the announced GRRM's influence over DA:O (even if at the end such influence was just usual Bioware's fake talk). The "sunshine brigade" was the large majority in that thread. 

A pox on their house.

qft.

[HiroVoid]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

FedericoV wrote...

Thandal NLyman wrote...

@FedericoV; So... I take it that you're more of a Planescape - Torment fan?

Well, in fantasy the only "work" I'm a fan of is George Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire. Honestly, I do not know a game that came close to it and probably we'll never see one.

A Song of Ice and Fire really is great! My first contact with it was the HBO Game of Thrones show, and about a month ago I finally started to read the books. I'm about  a hundred pages into A Feast for Crows now, and I'm loving more or less every page of it so far. Sadly I doubt we'll ever see anything like it in a game anytime soon as well. I actually hope Bioware will go more towards A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones in terms of asthetics, because that is closer to what I felt Dragon Age was and should be than the direction taken in DA2. Seriously doubt that's going to happen, though... 

They're making a 'Game of Thrones' RPG though I don't know how good it'll be.

[Andy379]

When I think Broodmother I think dark fantasy

[nitefyre410]

The  Broodmother or she good...rather but   unfortunately  Dragon Age is not Dark Fantasy in my book or  at  least  its Dark Fantasy / High octane Nightmare fuel free and Eye Scream free. Though the nursery ryhme in the Dark Roads... CREEEPY.   The fade was absolute ...joke and  long boring on at that. 


Now something the recently that I read that was Dark Fantasy...


Beserek...

Thankfull I was blessed with a not being overly quasi